Roger Pellett

Since I don’t know what sort of equipment you gave this may be totally out in left field but I’m offering it anyway.  
 
By far the easiest way to carve a ship model hull is to carve two half models, to be glued together after they have been shaped.  The benefit of this method is that each half has a flat datum to work from that can be laid on a flat surface when checking with templates.  The “precarved hulls” advertised by kit manufacturers are hard to shape because there is no obvious datum or reference point to measure from.
 
If you have access to a bandsaw, you might try slicing your sacrificial hull down the center and shaping each half individually.
 
Roger

In the 1990’s the Israelis were building a number of large coal fired power stations along the Mediterranean sea coast and the company that I worked for had just completed a job to provide the high pressure steam and feed water piping for the plant built at Askalon.  These contracts required that a percentage of the fabrication labor be provided locally.
 
With more projects on the horizon, In 1986 our Israeli agent put me in touch with a plant in Israel that rebuilt tanks and I visited it to see if they could fabricate high pressure piping.  It was an interesting place, as they had an assortment of tanks from allies as well as adversaries-  British, American, and Russian, and of course they were being “upgraded” with all sorts of innovations, some of which they were careful not to let me see.  I also saw several of the huge Israeli designed and built Merkava tanks being transported on the highway.  Like many things it’s hard to imagine their size without seeing the real thing.
 
Roger

Since I don’t know what sort of equipment you gave this may be totally out in left field but I’m offering it anyway.  
 
By far the easiest way to carve a ship model hull is to carve two half models, to be glued together after they have been shaped.  The benefit of this method is that each half has a flat datum to work from that can be laid on a flat surface when checking with templates.  The “precarved hulls” advertised by kit manufacturers are hard to shape because there is no obvious datum or reference point to measure from.
 
If you have access to a bandsaw, you might try slicing your sacrificial hull down the center and shaping each half individually.
 
Roger

In the 1990’s the Israelis were building a number of large coal fired power stations along the Mediterranean sea coast and the company that I worked for had just completed a job to provide the high pressure steam and feed water piping for the plant built at Askalon.  These contracts required that a percentage of the fabrication labor be provided locally.
 
With more projects on the horizon, In 1986 our Israeli agent put me in touch with a plant in Israel that rebuilt tanks and I visited it to see if they could fabricate high pressure piping.  It was an interesting place, as they had an assortment of tanks from allies as well as adversaries-  British, American, and Russian, and of course they were being “upgraded” with all sorts of innovations, some of which they were careful not to let me see.  I also saw several of the huge Israeli designed and built Merkava tanks being transported on the highway.  Like many things it’s hard to imagine their size without seeing the real thing.
 
Roger

In the 1990’s the Israelis were building a number of large coal fired power stations along the Mediterranean sea coast and the company that I worked for had just completed a job to provide the high pressure steam and feed water piping for the plant built at Askalon.  These contracts required that a percentage of the fabrication labor be provided locally.
 
With more projects on the horizon, In 1986 our Israeli agent put me in touch with a plant in Israel that rebuilt tanks and I visited it to see if they could fabricate high pressure piping.  It was an interesting place, as they had an assortment of tanks from allies as well as adversaries-  British, American, and Russian, and of course they were being “upgraded” with all sorts of innovations, some of which they were careful not to let me see.  I also saw several of the huge Israeli designed and built Merkava tanks being transported on the highway.  Like many things it’s hard to imagine their size without seeing the real thing.
 
Roger

In the 1990’s the Israelis were building a number of large coal fired power stations along the Mediterranean sea coast and the company that I worked for had just completed a job to provide the high pressure steam and feed water piping for the plant built at Askalon.  These contracts required that a percentage of the fabrication labor be provided locally.
 
With more projects on the horizon, In 1986 our Israeli agent put me in touch with a plant in Israel that rebuilt tanks and I visited it to see if they could fabricate high pressure piping.  It was an interesting place, as they had an assortment of tanks from allies as well as adversaries-  British, American, and Russian, and of course they were being “upgraded” with all sorts of innovations, some of which they were careful not to let me see.  I also saw several of the huge Israeli designed and built Merkava tanks being transported on the highway.  Like many things it’s hard to imagine their size without seeing the real thing.
 
Roger

In the 1990’s the Israelis were building a number of large coal fired power stations along the Mediterranean sea coast and the company that I worked for had just completed a job to provide the high pressure steam and feed water piping for the plant built at Askalon.  These contracts required that a percentage of the fabrication labor be provided locally.
 
With more projects on the horizon, In 1986 our Israeli agent put me in touch with a plant in Israel that rebuilt tanks and I visited it to see if they could fabricate high pressure piping.  It was an interesting place, as they had an assortment of tanks from allies as well as adversaries-  British, American, and Russian, and of course they were being “upgraded” with all sorts of innovations, some of which they were careful not to let me see.  I also saw several of the huge Israeli designed and built Merkava tanks being transported on the highway.  Like many things it’s hard to imagine their size without seeing the real thing.
 
Roger

(Hmm, I have and use a 1/8" x 105" on my 14" saw occasionally.  I don't find anything extraordinary about it.)
 
If your need is beyond modeling, then I think you'll definitely need at least a 12" saw, and a 14" saw is generally considered the happy medium for home and small shop use.  So far as blades are concerned,  understanding the configurations of width, thickness, and tooth styles can be daunting.  Generally 3-5 teeth should be engaged in the wood, with the particular tooth style suited to the nature of the material  There are very good blades available at reasonable prices (~$35US for a 105" blade), but carbide-toothed blades can be extraordinarily expensive (e.g. $2US >per inch<).  In the USA, two common brands that are well regarded are Woodslicer and Timberwolf, but there are also good blades from Lenox, Starrett, Olson, and others.  Also, where I'm located, there are local shops that will make blades to any specification.  All that said, most of the time I use a 1/4" x 6TPI or 3/8" x 4TPI with regular or hook teeth.  Finally blades that are 1/2" or wider may not be suitable for 14" or smaller saws because they require much higher tension than the saw's frame can exert.
 
 

Like the rest of the fleet they would have sailed or probably rowed south through the British line that night and temporarily escaped into the open lake, One of the several incredible incidents of the American Revolution.  By the time the British realized that they were gone it took them several days to catch up and to destroy the Americans (one of the other Gondolas, Spitfire, has been found out in the open lake).  The effect of Arnold’s hastily constructed fleet was to delay the British beyond the end of the summer campaigning season buying another year.
 
When the British tried a year later under Burgoyne they got bogged down in the wilderness south of Fort Ticonderoga and the better organized Americans defeated and captured them at Saratoga.  
 
As another fanous general once said, “It was a close run thing.”  Those wishing to read a great piece of historic fiction about Arnold’s fleet and the Saratoga Campaign should get a copy of Rabble in Arms by Kenneth Roberts.
 
Roger

Soft, splintery, the dust is toxic.

Soldered a ladder in a jig that came out remarkably accurate.  

Thanks, John. All kidding aside, we actually know a lot about her cargo as it was almost all salvaged and is on display (or still being catalogued and cleaned) at the museum in Kansas City. She was carrying a lot of whiskey (hence all my barrels) and tons of crates of frontier supplies (nails, boots, tools, farm implements, etc.). She was heading upriver when she sank; any agricultural products would have been carried on a downriver trip. Some cotton was grown in central Missouri, along with other plantation crops like tobacco and hemp; this region was (and still is) referred to as "Little Dixie" given that it had the highest antebellum concentration of slaves and plantations anywhere in the state and was decidedly more Southern than elsewhere; you can still find huge plantation-style houses along the Missouri River in this area.

Well I think I am DONE with the Loon which is the first of four!  I mounted on the Camp plaque we received each year we were campers (this one is from my 2nd year at camp in 1960 - appropriate as my plan is to give this at the 100th camp anniversary this summer - 60 years after I received this plaque).  The next model will be the Hawk which I will mount next to the Loon and then build a case.  I am still planning on building the final two models (Gull and Falcon) for myself and mount on my last camper plaque in 1964 but we'll see...I will keep this log open and only note major progress going forward.
 
 
 
 

Your frames look like the real thing!
 

Somewhere I read that one of the Dutch Shipyards’ competitive advantages was the early availability of wind powered sawmills to produce sawn planks vs sawing them by hand over a saw pit.  Their lumber was also imported from the Rhine and the Baltic.  I would, therefore, not think that these vessels were built from inferior lumber.
 
Roger

Thanks for the likes and comments and for bearing with me.    I feel like I'm on new ground with this one.   On the next one, I'll back on familiar turf.
 
I've had to make some decisions so I've been experimenting and fiddling.  The ANCRE drawings are somewhat lacking on certain details particularly as to what's below the gundeck.  They show covers over the ladderways but over bulkheads and they're not all ladders as I learned with Licorne.  So, I'm taking my lead from some of the French and Polish builders and will save some time and aggravation.   What I be doing is planking the deck and bulwarks from the 3rd bulkhead through the 10th and detailing that area.  The rest will not be detailed and even the carriages for the guns will "different" (simplified) than the rest.    I did think about this long and hard, did some sketches and a few mock-ups.    Once I get the decking down, I'll do an update before starting to frame in the bulwarks for the upper deck.
 
Peace, and everyone try to stay healthy in these trying times.

Weaving a cane seat is not difficult.  You could drill holes around the perimeter and weave a seat using appropriate colored thread.  Try looking up chair caning instructions on the web.
 
Roger

Carrying on with sanding and cleaning. I brushed on white vinegar to the interior to clean what I could not sand. I used my electric toothbrush, sans bristles, as a detail sander. The curved backside was perfect for getting the ribs near the bulkheads. Way to narrow and curved for anything else to get in there.

Having largely finished my build of the 13th century Round ship, I am going back in time to the 9th century. At this time a transition was in play in the Mediterranean away from the shell construction using edge joined planks with pegged mortices to what would become the skeleton type of construction using full active frames. The vessel I wish to construct was positioned in between these techniques in that it had a mixture of shell and skeleton construction used in its construction. In addition , instead of using mortice and tenon technique to edge join the planks, it used an edge dowelling technique.
 
I will utilise the description and reconstruction published by the author:
Işıl Özsait-Kocabaş
Istanbul University, Department of Conservation of Marine Archaeological Objects, Ordu Cad. Laleli, Fatih, ˙Istanbul,
Turkey
The International Journal of Nautical Archaeology (2018) 47.2: 357–390
 
Copyright for images from this publication resides with Istanbul University Yenikapı Shipwrecks Project, I will withold these.
 
I hope to be able to demonstrate the techniques used by the original builder.
 
The dimensions of the vessel are
length overall (LOA) 9.24m,  beam  of 2.64m, and depth
 of 1.10m. The length-to-beam ratio
of the vessel is 3.5:1.
The wreck was found in 2007 at the site of the byzantine Theodosian harbour, one of the greatest treasure-troves of nautical archaeology yet discovered. The wreck of YP12 has good preservation of keel, framing and planking sufficient to do a viable reconstruction.
 
The keel is rockered, that is slightly curved, and made from three pieces joined by keyhole scarfs


The stempost and sternpost did not survive and have been reconstructed.
I have temporarily installed the spine of the vessels on posts as I believe the original builder would have done. This may end up becoming the stand of the model.

Cheers
Dick
 
 

 

Pauline,
 
You might also want to let your clients look at the model kits and make a recommendation.   assuming that they are elderly you will find someone who built models earlier in life.
 
Roger

Pauline,
 
You might also want to let your clients look at the model kits and make a recommendation.   assuming that they are elderly you will find someone who built models earlier in life.
 
Roger

Assuming you are going to order on line or perhaps venture out to a Home Depot or Lowes or such, stay simple.
Avoid CA (Super Glue)  glues as the fumes are noxious and the elderly folks unfamiliar with it may have mishaps gluing their fingers to the model or each other.  
For plastic,  good old plastic model glue like Testors Plastic Model Glue TES3501 or similar.  Found in hobby shops, on line, etc.   
For wood, any brand carpenters glue.   Titebond Aliphatic Glue (commonly called carpenter's yellow glue,) or Elmers Carpenters Wood glue are great choices  and easily found on line or in any builder's store.  
Hope they have fun with these!!   
Allan
 

This appears to be someone’s interpretation of a wood canvas canoe.  I personally think that it is well done. The rocker may be excessive but canoes intended for use in white water river canoeing are built with considerable rocker to improve maneuverability.  Likewise River canoes often do not have keels.  Unlike other boats a wood canvas canoe does not require a keel as a structural member.  A lack of tumblehome would also improve stability in challenging conditions.
 
The real thing would be built from cedar, the ribs 5/32in thick x 2-1/2 in to 3in wide.  Planking would be 5/32in to 3/16in white or red cedar.  Each canoe builder had his own planking pattern and the planking is not intended to be watertight.  Planking is nailed through the ribs with the nail points headed over.  No glue is used.
 
The canoe is then covered with heavy canvas.  Canvasing is an interesting job.  The Canves is made up as an envelope suspended by ropes.  The canoe is put in the envelope and stretched longitudinally.  I used a boat trailer winch.  The canvas is drawn up over the gunnel with plier like tools and nailed or stapled.  The nails or staples are later covered up by the outwale.  The canvas is not glued to the planking.  If the planets are properly aligned the result is a nice smooth canvas cover.  The canvas is then treated with a home made coating to waterproof it.  I used linseed oil, old oil based paint, powdered silica, and Japan drier all mixed together.  The canoe is then painted.
 
The point to all of this is that planking over this otherwise nice model will ruin it.  A good paint job- satin or eggshell finish will be as close as you can come to the painted canvas.  The Peterborough canoe is a completely different animal with totally different framing, and modifying your canoe will just make it a bastard.  From your “handle” it seem that you are interested in Northwoods lore and culture.  You can then take satisfaction in knowing that the wood canvas canoe is/was a direct descendant of the Native American’s and Vouyager’s birch bark craft.
 
You should be able to find a huge amount of information about these canoes.  Thy looking up the following:
 
Wooden Canoe Heritage Association
Wisconsin Canoe Museum, Spooner, Wisconsin
Old Town Wood Canvas Canoes
Northwoods Canoe Company 
 
Roger

This appears to be someone’s interpretation of a wood canvas canoe.  I personally think that it is well done. The rocker may be excessive but canoes intended for use in white water river canoeing are built with considerable rocker to improve maneuverability.  Likewise River canoes often do not have keels.  Unlike other boats a wood canvas canoe does not require a keel as a structural member.  A lack of tumblehome would also improve stability in challenging conditions.
 
The real thing would be built from cedar, the ribs 5/32in thick x 2-1/2 in to 3in wide.  Planking would be 5/32in to 3/16in white or red cedar.  Each canoe builder had his own planking pattern and the planking is not intended to be watertight.  Planking is nailed through the ribs with the nail points headed over.  No glue is used.
 
The canoe is then covered with heavy canvas.  Canvasing is an interesting job.  The Canves is made up as an envelope suspended by ropes.  The canoe is put in the envelope and stretched longitudinally.  I used a boat trailer winch.  The canvas is drawn up over the gunnel with plier like tools and nailed or stapled.  The nails or staples are later covered up by the outwale.  The canvas is not glued to the planking.  If the planets are properly aligned the result is a nice smooth canvas cover.  The canvas is then treated with a home made coating to waterproof it.  I used linseed oil, old oil based paint, powdered silica, and Japan drier all mixed together.  The canoe is then painted.
 
The point to all of this is that planking over this otherwise nice model will ruin it.  A good paint job- satin or eggshell finish will be as close as you can come to the painted canvas.  The Peterborough canoe is a completely different animal with totally different framing, and modifying your canoe will just make it a bastard.  From your “handle” it seem that you are interested in Northwoods lore and culture.  You can then take satisfaction in knowing that the wood canvas canoe is/was a direct descendant of the Native American’s and Vouyager’s birch bark craft.
 
You should be able to find a huge amount of information about these canoes.  Thy looking up the following:
 
Wooden Canoe Heritage Association
Wisconsin Canoe Museum, Spooner, Wisconsin
Old Town Wood Canvas Canoes
Northwoods Canoe Company 
 
Roger

Thank you for the background. This may take me in a whole new direction. I am familiar with some of the canoes used in the trade, in particular the Montreal canoe and the north canoe. The north canoe being closer in proportional size to the one I have here. The lack of keel wasn’t a particular problem, I understand whitewater canoes may have no keel and large rockers but I’m not a whitewater canoeist and I always thought they were shorter, smaller generally. But the thing that threw me was the combination of all that and the blue paint. I thought it was just a result of a mass produced “toy” or something like that.
I have never heard of the building method you described so it looks like I need to do more research to really do this model right.