Chuck

Not that I am getting involved with the topic of kit subject matter but I do feel compelled to respond to this as it was a direct request of sorts...so please excuse the interruption. HSM wrote Oh, one more thing that I would like to see (from Syren specifically) is an option for bulk-orders of blocks. If you could offer a package of blocks to replace all of the kit blocks in the MS Rattlesnake (for example) builders could order that for the MS kit or any similar ship. It is impossible to offer such a package for every kit, but a few generic 20 gun, 50 gun, 100 gun packages at 2 or 3 different scales could be doable... It's amazing how easy something is to suggest when SOMEONE ELSE has to do the actual work ;-) Sadly, this will never happen but please allow me to explain why. The answer is three fold. Just so everyone knows. - First...I would need to double if not triple my output of block/rope production so I could stock enough of these packages for individual kits or ship types. - Second...the amount of time needed to just package up these blocks and rope now is enormous. So to package by hand different amounts of different sizes included labeled packages and then sort them would take hiring another person to do that almost full time. And when they were done....they could sit on the shelf for months or even years before someone might be willing to buy such an upgrade package so specific. -Third...It would take weeks...months or even years to research so many specific ships....research that really should be done by the builder. Especially if I have never built the ship before. This is a question I get all the time....I got this one just a few days ago. I think some folks just want the work all done and spoon fed like it was a fast food restaurant. "I am building the Vasa and would like to replace all of the blocks and rope in the kit with yours. Can you tell me how many blocks and what sizes I would need? I also need to know how much rope to buy. The kit isn't very good in this regard so sizes and quantities are unknown to me. Is there some hard and fast rules that would tell me what sizes to use in the different areas of the rig? Any help would be appreciated. I have just finished the hull and I am anxious to get started on the rigging as quickly as possible. Do have expedited shipping?" I could spend several months writing what would amount to be a treatise on this subject for this customer.....while gathering the quantities and lengths....but seriously...who is building this model. There are usually many books readily available to help the model builder figure all of this stuff out....as much as I want to be everyone's shortcut and help them out....it is an impossible task. So please dont get mad if I respond in the usual manner if you should ask this question... ​I never built it...but there are several books on the subject. Please refer to the parts list in your kit as a starting point. Everything is in stock and ready when you gather up all the information. You may consider signing up on Model Ship World to ask those questions. I am sure you will find many people who have built that kit. Many ask for this because they also believe as a bulk package it will be cheaper. But in reality because of the work involved as mentioned....I would have to charge a whole lot more. Its cheaper if you guys do the math up front. A lot less work for me too!!! Oh and if I can slip this in....Wasp is on my short list already.

Kurt, Dont be shy....my guess is you want a nice shiny new tugboat kit? Again I am just guessing. Please everyone.....just dont say its a great topic and you will be listening...or hit the like button....please lay it all out there. The more that start to participate here, the more people will feel less shy about posting. Dont be shy. Who will get the conversation started?

I thought I would start this topic because as a model builder I know what I would like to see developed into a kit. I am sure all of you have a short list. On the flip side!!! As a developer of commercial kits and projects, I have no idea what-so-ever what other kit builders would like to see developed. I am quite certain that this is true for the other kit developers. Its just a leap of faith based on so many factors. Including many who are respected sponsors of this site. Both old and large companies or the newer, smaller Mom and Pop type operations. We just dont know. Its a big chance to take without a direct line of communication. Bringing a new project to market is a serious investment in $$ and time.....our worst fears....nobody wants to build it or buy it when its launched. So please....I urge you all to participate. It would be a huge ....huge help. No more Victories or Constitutions...its the last thing the hobby needs right???? Maybe not??? Please tell us. BUT I would kindly ask that all MFG's including myself...and our sponsors...not participate in this discussion other than to say that you are watching and listening or if asked a direct question that warrants a response. I know you will be listening, just as I am eager to hear from our customers. This will alleviate any fear that we may be trying to steer the choices or monopolize the voice of all of you kit builders out there. SO...please do feel free to share your own short lists. Or even just one. Consider this your direct line to the kit developers out there.....I know I am listening. The others would be at a loss if they dont. Otherwise, we will just keep developing the same old stuff and hopefully one of them is what you want. BUT here is what we need to know...or at least me as a developer. - Name of ship .....or type - Country of origin - date - Material choices and what style...POB or POF or Solid hull ETC - Price range you would expect to pay...whether realistic or not -How long do you prefer a build to last from a kit. Will you want to spend 6 months for a small kit or 6 years for that 100 gun French frigate from 1820? -Advanced or beginner......something in-between? You get the picture....It would be interesting to see if we have any HMS Thunderer (74 gun) at 1/4" scale in POF built from Boxwood for under $200....If we hear a lot of that, then its probably time for me to look for a new job...LOL. I learned as a young boy that if I didnt tell my parents what to get me for Christmas....I would end up with a lot of socks and underwear....LOL and I will thank you on behalf of all of our fellow kit developers and MFGs. This will make it so much easier for our businesses to grow and the hobby itself to grow. Chuck

No, that is project number two.....both are currently underway.....the Syren Factory is at full capacity!!!! That is being worked on by Dan Pariser and will take this philosophy to the next level..... You will lapstrake plank the entire hull for a Thames river skiff..1880...all planks are laser cut and pre-spiled....with etched reference lines and instruction. You get the plug...actually laser cut parts....then you plank it like you would with a plug and remove the shell..then insert the frames inside afterwards. Then there are all the little details. So that project takes the learning experience even further. Both are being worked on right now. Its different than the barge as that kit has removable centers that become the frames...a slightly different concept. But its all to teach a differnt method of clinker planking with hopefully very thorough instructions and lessons for doing it. The model shown is Dan's and it is also made from Cherry and boxwood. They actually make the real things out of cherry and still use these skiffs today. Dan will be starting a build log of this model as well once it gets further along.

Mike I understand what you are saying....but rest assured ... this is most certainly an advanced kit. Although the parts are all laser cut and the jigs and design concept will alleviate much trouble....the builder will need to proceed very slowly and with much care. To explain a bit about my philosophy for kits. - My goal is to design kits that wont look like kits when they are built. The quality of the wood and the parts and the historical accuracy. No ply for fittings...no metal castings....no skimping on the final visual product. To design them in such a way that folks can build them with the same few tools they would use to build any other kit straight of of the box. Yet when its done, and placed right beside a scratch version of the same subject...most wouldnt be able to tell the difference. The design I hope will inspire others to use the same concepts after finishing it to slowly cross over to scratch building. Or adapt the concepts for other kits that are lacking. - For example...first I wanted to introduce a model that would serve as an introduction to clinker planking. Not the whole hull...but just a few planks. So builders might not be nervous about it. It will literally be a step by step intro lesson on clinker planking...how to bevel...what to bevel etc. See below for the one plank - second...this model will also serve as an intro to carving. Yes there will be three small resin castings, but the majority of the carved scroll work you see on the sides of the hull and transom will be carved by the builder. These arent complex figureheads or difficult subjects to scare folks who never tried it. Or never used boxwood. You will get the piece laser cut from boxwood flat and ordinary... and you will learn some simple techniques to get started carving...with a few extra pieces just in case of a mishap. How to secure the piece for carving, how to use a stop cut, how to shave and carve with simple tools....how to undercut areas etc. Step by step. Nothing to fancy and elaborate...no expensive tools...just giving it a try with a little help. At least the way I have always done it...I am sure that others will have a better way but this will show how I do it. These are the two main features that are the focus for me on this project as well as creating a way to frame the boat properly with floors and futtocks like the contemporary model. And NO...the carvings wont be that small. It fits on a dime because I was just testing my laser cutter to see how hard I could push it....how small can laser cut something intricate and still capture some detail. That is pretty dang small. The real thing is about six times larger. - So for me...designing this kit was a way to introduce a few things that are lacking with most kits....mainly they all look like kits unless you do some serious bashing with no guidance to go with it. Why not start out with great materials....and guide the builders through it as if it was stepping stone to scratch building. Having said that... The jigs and laser cut parts I provide are something I would normally make for myself if I were building this from scratch...by giving them to a builder who might not have the tools or experience to create them, they will at least get a chance to see a pre-spiled plank so they can understand and can visualize why using a straight strip isnt going to work. They will see the spiled shape and think....this is nuts.....then after they place it on the hull without any difficulty, hopefully a light bulb will go off. Then MAYBE they can apply what they have learned and experienced with this kit on the many other kits they build...or scratch projects. Its hard to explain but I hope it makes sense. It wont be a beginner kit. It will be an advanced kit FOR intermediate builders looking to try something they havent done before. Now I keep showing the same image of the same contemporary model. It wont look exactly like this one...but its close. It will actually look a lot more like the one pictured below except for the transom carving. I am referring to the colors and the lack of carving inside....just bare panels. This is remember just an intro to carving. Note how the planks are fastened....not treenailed....they are nailed. Nailed to the plank beneath it. Just something new to learn and I am learning right along with it. And yes it will be a challenge. Chuck

Thank you all for the well wishes and questions Just to answer a few questions I have received about this Royal Barge. - It is circa 1700 - Queen Anne Style Royal Barge - It WILL be a full Kit and not a scratch/with some laser cut parts. My first full kit with everything all included. - It is 1:24 scale and will be about 20" long. -The stock kit will be made in Cherry with boxwood carvings and trim in place of gilding. A boxwood or Pear upgrade version will also be made available as special order. But the cherry will look great and be far less expensive. I am using prime pieces that are "cherry-picked" for a lighter tone. Examine the image below and look at how much waste wood there would be on each frame if Boxwood or pear was used...each kit in those woods will be considerably more expensive and mostly used up for the frame centers. So consider this if you intend to order a custom cut version in Box or Pear. - The build board....for lack of a better word is included. Its a design choice to replace of all of those pesky wood strips people glue across the frames for the longboat and pinnace to stabalize it for fairing and planking. I have learned a lot watching all of you build those. This replaces the need for those and provides a sturdy base to Clinker plank....only three strakes will be on each kit to mirror the contemporary examples we are all familiar with. They will be pre-spiled and laser cut to make it easier. - The vertical lines shown on frames "10" and "J" in the previous post are there as a visual reference. They are there so when you place the keel assembly on top of the frames.... you can eyeball the hull from dead astern and at the bow to make sure its straight and not tilted one way or the other. Its a slightly different build concept than placing the frames into the keel slots first like the longboat. The build-board lines them all up so you dont have to fight with trying to get them all centered and perpendicular....those that built the pinnace and longboat know what I am referencing. It was a pain to do well and there are many many more frames in this kit. It has proven more effective to place the keel onto the frames afterwards..... - I dont have any idea of price yet because its too soon in the prototype process to tell. Thanks for the interest and its OK to ask the questions in this topic....I am sure many others have the same questions and its easier to answer them once here. Thanks again Chuck

I thought I would give a little status update on this side project. As some of you know I am working on two new complete kits for Syren... One is of a 1/2" scale Royal navy barge circa 1700. I am trying to push the envelope a bit with my design concepts and the laser cutter. It will look like the contemporary model below but actually be almost exactly like the Queen Anne style barge shown in the Kriegstein collection. Those that have the Seawatch book should check it out. This will be a fully framed little model and I am very excited about it. I am building off of the design concept I used for the long boat and pinnace but taking it a bit farther. I hope these photos will give you a sufficient idea about the scope/concept of the project. This is a big barge model at over 20" long. I am fortunate to have found someone who is an excellent model builder who will build the prototype for me as it is designed. Unfortunately there is just not enough time in the day for me to build everything I design. He will be starting a build log shortly as I get a little further with the design. Many of you know him and will enjoy his build log as you have enjoyed his others. This project is a long, long way from being released but I thought I would show you what we are working on in addition to the many other projects. It also shows you how Syren will bring new projects to market without having to wait for me to build the entire model. I will be concentrating on finishing the Cheerful and then continuing with the Winchelsea. At the same time I will be collaborating with others to bring you folks additional stuff!!! There are no deadlines for these projects...they will get done when they get done. It is more important that these projects are the best possible within my limits of experience and expertise and they will never be rushed to market. I will however keep you guys updated. The last thing the hobby needs are more sub-par ship model projects and kits. I apologize for the longer development times compared to others. I hope its not too frustrating.

As many of you are aware....we have had many group project forums in the past with a couple going on right now. I just closed the Longboat group which had been going for several years. It had soon run its course. All closed groups will have their logs moved to the appropriate forum. None will be lost. Keep in mind all groups are not permanent. They will wind down and close as they lose steam and participation. This will done to preserve valuable forum real estate and also keep the site fresh and exciting with new possibilities for the membership. As the administrator I will pose the question in each group forum when it looks like interest and participation crawled to a stop. It will be up to the membership if they want to keep it open...but that means its up to the membership to keep it active. If closed....All pinned topics and non logs will be moved . Nothing will be lost. To start a new project forum, it must meet this criteria. - must have 6 - 8 current members actively building the project and willing to start a log in a separate group area. Group will be open to any member wanting to participate. No exclusions. - subject can be suggested by any member as long as they meet the criteria. Its time to rally your fellow members should you wish to start one. If you are among many building one model now and there are more than 6 - 8 logs already started, why not take the initiative to contact them to see if all of you want to start a group. Just an idea. - the forums must contain only Build logs following the same guidelines for naming them as the other build log forums. -all non-build log specific info related to the project that will help the group of builders, will be posted as a pinned topic above the build logs by a moderator. -Every group project must have a named leader/mentor who will take charge of the group and agree to moderate it. If you can not find one please contact us and we will try and find one for you. If you would like to suggest a topic for such a group build area...you may list it in this forum.....Try to rally your fellow members to start and participate in a new group.....or if there are already more than 6-8 "scratch" or "kit" forum build logs started and you can convince those builders to move their topics here.....we can do that as well. But if that happens.....we will move all similar build logs here for convenience and consistency....even if you are NOT among the 6-8 who want to start such a separate group project forum. But PLEASE...be as detailed as you can when suggesting a new group be started. List the name and type of ship or item.....scratch or kit......POF or POB....solid hull....what will cost....time frame....where to get plans....kit...or supplies. What would the goal and aim be if any for the project you are trying to start. JUST ONE MORE SUGGESTION.....The project DOES NOT need to be for a complete ship or boat. For example. If members wanted to start a group about making a ship's stove or a capstan....that is fine too. As long as there are 6-8 members who are actively doing so. Trying new techniques and sharing them as well as working on the same exact thing.....if you want to start a group about using a lathe to turn cannon and it will active participants...that is great and worthwhile. A group project such as this....its about learning together and exchanging ideas as a group on any one subject. This structure is offered to make it easier and more convenient. So think outside the box. But we need 6-8 members to start one. And the key word is ACTIVE PROJECT. Chuck (MSW admin)

Thats looking very good. It will make an excellent model!!! Well Done

Your deck looks fantastic Rusty....well done. Dont stay away for too long.

Tat looks very good. Well done!!!

Allan Its a weird thing but it is always shown on models of the Mary Rose. Here is a bassett- lowke model of the Mary Rose and you can see the same batten type strakes along the bottom of the hull. Its very weird.

Yes.....its digital. Chuck

Nope.....just wanted to have some inspiration close at hand. I try to surround myself with it and often commission other ship model builders or buy their work ..... at least when the admiral is also smitten with a particular work or subject. Chuck

I can take as many photos of her as you would like...just let me know when you are ready. Here is an in-progress photo....this depiction is much like the one shown on the NMM model and the original draft which shows the figurehead. Its is exactly like the detail shown on that original draft. Plans during the 1770's often had incredible detail with all of the carvings and even friezes shown in many instances. It is a very accurate depiction.

Beautiful work.....just wonderful to look at and would look at home on anyone's desk....the perfect gift!!!! Hint!!! Hint!!!

Just completed the tiller after mounting the rudder. It was cut from a 1/8" thick sheet of boxwood. Then it was carefully rounded off and shaped using files and sanding sticks. I could have left it natural but it just looked to bright and "blah" looking. So I painted it red and highlighted the parts of the handle on tiller. I like this much better. I am sure everyone has their preference but I have also seen the tiller painted black on contemporary models. I dont think I would have liked it like that. Next up I will be making the bowsprit. Here are some overall shots with the deck almost completed except for the bowsprit bits and bow chasers. Chuck

No rotary....just sharp chisels. Various styles...."V" shaped and flat etc.....and VERY SHARP.

Just thought I would share these incredible pictures of the figurehead for the Swan Class Sloop "Atalanta" by David Antscherl. The figure is boxwood with a stem of swiss pear. The brackets and trailboard carving are also boxwood. Note the gold leafed apples. Just stunning carving by hand and almost hard to believe possible at this scale. Its so tiny. I love the facial expression.....Mona Lisa smirk... Enjoy!!! The glass dome is just 4" in diameter. Chuck

That looks wonderful. They will look great on the model presentation. Chuck

Very nicely done.... Jeez even you are catching up with me now Rusty.....work more on the house...LOL

Completed the rudder today. As you see, I created an alternative for fabricating metal gudgeons and pintels. I dont have the tools to solder brass versions and I hate working in metal. So I made mine from wood. I also made a version using laserboard for the straps. It worked just as well. These are very sturdy rudder hinges. They are three pieces. All laser cut. The center is sanded to the width of the stern post and rudder. Then the straps are added after being cut to length. They are pre-cut with holes. 24 gauge wire was inserted into those holes after drilling them a bit deeper into the rudder. Then the wire was pushed into the holes and snipped off. It was snipped off so the end would stand proud of the straps by just a hair simulating the bolts. These laser cut "cheat hinges" did a great job in my opinion and they are so easy to work with. The straps are a bit thick originally but after gluing them on the rudder and hull they are sanded down to a really thin profile. Then they are painted black after the wire is inserted into all of the holes. For the "hinge pin" a small length of 22 gauge wire was used. It was glued into the hole in the center section of this mini-kit. As a tip for those who will start fabricating theirs out of wood....paint the edges of the straps black ahead of time and you will have a nice neat edge. You can see the ones on my hull which havent been completed yet. I still have to add the simulated bolts with wire. They are unpainted. Once this is done I will create the tiller. AND YES...before anyone asks these are now available as a stock item . Not just for cheerful as they worked out so well I am sure others will want them. The straps and center are 1/16" wide which is a typical size and could be used for many other models. Both laserboard and boxwood straps will be included in each package. Choose whatever you prefer. Why havent these ever been made before??? They are wonderful if I dont mind saying myself. And they are so simple. Click Here to see them.

Just like a windlass there were small pawls on the inside of the uprights that would engage the sprockets. But they are rarely shown on models. Its up to the builder to decide if they want to include them. They are usually on the aft side of the uprights....BUT like everything else there are so many variations. I just picked one from a contemporary model. I believe it was a variation of the one shown on the Surly model in the Thompson Collection. See below for a few including the Surly model. Chuck

Thats the windlass. The winch will be a mini-kit too. Probably in a week or so. Its easy to build from scratch but the small gears are better to have laser cut. They are a pain to make by hand. I will cut about a dozen of them sometime next week. Chuck

Thank You.....I just finished making the winch. This is a pretty straight forward fitting. The pieces were cut taking the measurements from the plans. Nothing was to difficult but care was taken to make the winch handles look more attractive than just using a piece of black wire. So I cut some micro tube to slip over the end of the handle to give it some dimension. This is the last deck fitting before the rigging prep starts. I will finish the rudder and tiller first however. Then there is the bowsprit bitts up front which also contain the pawl for the windlass. But I would like to have the bowsprit made while making that. Once thats finished I will add the two long guns at the bow...... That is everything that is left before the rigging begins so I feel like I am getting into the home-stretch. Chuck