Chuck

That looks very good.....lovely work. I was indeed hoping more would join in. Many carving blanks were sold yet nobody is joining in on the fun.... Hope to see more folks starting up soon.

Nothing other than gluing them to the base before carving.

Make sure you just give those vulnerable area a gently poke to make sure they are glued down good. Chuck

I have no idea....but either the six pounders as I have used or smaller would work. But even the smaller 3 pounders would be hairy to work in such a confined space. Either way we know they were there its just we have no idea how they handled them. I am pretty confident in going with the six pounders as indicated on the draft itself...I will however leave it up to the imagination as to how they were worked. Chuck

Here is what the six pounders look like rigged....... Those wishing to replace and use the smaller 3 pounder barrels just remember that the carriages will need to be reworked. They will need to be made the same height but reduced in length.

Thanks.....so my 1 11/64" barrels would be a great fit for those wishing to go with a 3 pounder gun instead. I am going to leave it as is however based on the notation on the draft. Plus its already completely rigged. Next up I will start making the lower mast. Thanks Druxey

I do agree with that Druxey 100%. Please help me with some math..... In fact, lets assume that as documented on the original draft that six pounders were used as chase guns. Based on my research, a short six pounder was around 6 feet long. At 1:48 scale that would be 1 1/2" long. The cannon on my model are actually 1 29/64" long or slightly shorter than the historical norm for a short 6'. So basically they are right on the money so-to-speak. So what you are looking at on my model is representative of a short six pounder if my math is correct. I could have gone shorter but that wouldnt bear out with the info I have on ordinance fro the time period. Not that this helps with the way they appear on the model.... But these guns are the size of short six pounder cannon 6' long. Have I made a math error though???? Math wasnt exactly my strong-suit. I also considered going with my 1 11/64" barrels but they are closer to 4 pounders and very small for the scale. So this was my thinking when deciding to go with this size barrel and the only thing I can think of is that my assumption of a six foot long short six is wrong. Can someone confirm that 6' long is an accurate premise for a short six pounder at this time? I am using several sources for this info Arming and fitting.....Goodwin Ship of the line.....Lavery Volume II of Swan series....Antscherl

In light of the overwhelming contemporary evidence I cant really ignore it on my model. There most certainly were no port lids. Rather than just speculate based on a gut feeling its better to leave all possibilities open for individual consideration. But for my model I will rig them as bow chasers as stated on the original draft. Image below. Now one other possibility would be to go with a smaller 6 pounder cannon but correspondence from the period and written accounts from her time at sea also indicate they were actually 12 pounders. My guns are 1 29/64" long or the size of short six pounders at this scale. I think either size would have little impact on how functional they would be just looking at them 225 years later crammed into that tiny space, but I would rather think that the methods that made them useful are just not known to us at this time. That it would be wrong to simply ignore all of the contemporary accounts and evidence because we just have a gut feeling. But that doesnt mean that others building Cheerful cant come to a different conclusion. Hopefully it will be based on actual contemporary information and research however rather than just a casual impression based on current limited impressions and generalities. Just my thoughts on it. So I will finish up the rigging and just move ahead to constructing the lower mast. I do appreciate and find the discussion fascinating none the less. Chuck

Indeed you are correct. These barrels are in fact the length of short sixes. I just cant figure it out. If you look at the contemporary model the same problem exists although loading would not be an issue because its a carronade on the one pictured. Rather than sit it on it and over contemplate I am just going to rig them as bow chasers. I am sure that additional info will come to light soon after but I hate to ignore contemporary sources. They must have known something we dont. Even six pounders with a barrel about 3/32" - 1/8" shorter would be problematic. ....at least to us 225 years later anyway. Chuck

The contemporary model isnt Cheerful even though it is called Cheerful. It has been wrongfully identified. It is the same period though. The Cheerful had only ten 18 pound Carronade and 2 six pounders according to the draft "to be used as chase guns". Other contemporary sources indicate she had two long 12's instead of six pounders. So I am sticking to the contemporary sources and just going with 12 guns total.

I am about the rig the long guns at the bow. The dilemma is the usual concern about how they could have possibly worked the port side gun. But there is so much ample evidence that this is indeed where the long guns were placed. Several contemporary model examples show them just as jammed in there. I have posted a pic of the Rogers collection model although it uses a carronade vs. a long gun. The original draft even shows the windlass being moved back two feet to .....as noted on the draft....." make room for the chase guns" There is also another possibility, it could be mounted in the second port aft of the windlass. I figured I would show an image of the guns in both positions so anyone building the model can see it before committing. I havent decide yet but will by the end of the day. I am curious what you guys think? Any thoughts??

I am very sorry to hear about your Dad. But I am glad you will be back at it soon. Hang in there!!

Very nice. When I am carving I usually slice the char off first all the way down to the base and then round off the edges afterwards. Its very addicting isnt it? Once you start its hard to stop. You got through that design very quickly.

Looking forward to seeing some progress. Have fun with it....

Maybe....but I am going to leave it as it seems to look just fine after I applied the wipe on poly. They are removed from the base so I dont want to mess with them at this point. but maybe I will try on the others I have yet to start.

There is a download in the other forum on signing up....it shows them the actual size.

Thanks, I do know about those but never thought about using them on wood. I finished the third leaf design needed for the starboard side of the barge last night. I applied some Wipe-On-Poly and I am happy with how they look, so rather than continue noodling with these I am just going to press on. I have 5 more carving designs to get done for the model. Next I will mount these three on a piece of scrap wood so I can make a mold. I will pull a bunch of castings in resin for those who dont wish to carve them for their model. I just hope these masters dont get ruined in the process because I plan on adding them to the model shortly after. Chuck

I am just using a #11 blade right out of the package. But I do know folks who make their own micro chisels in different shapes. That is above and beyond my abilities and time allotment for these so I am going to stick with whatever I can buy already made. Like Keith said...I think its just my technique and stroke and its something that will get better with learned experience. It would always be nice to find a trick or product that does the job....a silver bullet so-to-speak........ but I think its just a matter of learning the correct touch and the correct amount of pressure and angles while slicing. I dont want to over analyze my attempt because then you end up never finishing. So rather than fall prey to "analysis Paralysis" I am just going to keep going and apply a finish. There is always the next project and I will just find comfort that I will hopefully get better with more practice. I find myself slipping into the paralysis and must fight that....its a horrible thing.

I think that would work for any area that the grain is going the right direction. But when the grain is exposed it usually tears the wood and makes it rough. It picks up the grain fibers. I would say that more than half of the surfaces on a design like this run with the grain in a less than optimal direction but yes I will give it a try in areas that wont get shredded. Thanks Chuck

Lets get even closer.....This is what I see under magnification while carving.....you are so close to the details while carving it becomes hard not to obsess about the surface texture and I hope you can see the areas I would like to smooth out a bit but I am afraid to keep slicing and carving and wonder if there is another method. I think files would be too large and tough to use as I cant see getting any back and forth motion while its still mounted. Its fragile so attempting it after removal would most certainly break it...but who knows...it could just be my inexperience and that is how it should be done. Maybe I have to just get better with teh initial carving and that will just come with practice. Chuck

In this photo you can see two of three carvings placed on the model so you can see how they look when assembled...the third is still mounted on the carving base but you get the idea. I think I did apply Wipe-on-poly to that first one because it appears a bit darker. My question is this, In this photo you can see the surface quality of the pieces super close up. It looks a little rough to me in spots. I didnt scrape the surface at all while carving but you can still see some rough points and bits that werent completely removed in the corners and crannies.. I wonder if there is a way to sand pieces this tiny and fragile. I have tried folding a piece of 320 grit sandpaper and cutting it with a point on the end but its still tough to get into and address the rough areas. I Just cant get to them. Am I just looking at them too hard under magnification and close up macro photos???is it much to do about nothing or is there some method the more experienced carvers use to smooth out the surface to rid it of irregularities and tiny splits or wood hairs. I have seen the work of some master builders and carvers on ship models and they sometimes appear so crisp and smooth. It could have been that they were much larger but I doubt it. Maybe it looks just fine???? Buff it?? some sort of polishing or just apply some wipe on poly with a brush??? Feel free to jump in....these are the little gems I am hoping will get talked about as folks start their own logs. I am the first person in line for any and all tips. I also wonder how those builders of the contemporary models got their carvings so thin...look at the contemporary model I posted. Its the same scale. I thought our blanks at 1/32" thick were thin but I couldnt imagine going thinner??? It makes me admire them so much more. Chuck

I am starting a project log so you guys can see how to start one as well. Just start a topic and name it properly. Maybe include what your method is.....#11 blades or rotary carving etc. I know that nobody likes being the first one to start so here it is to break the ice. I urge all you guys who bought the blank sets to do the same....lets get some ideas and conversations started. The photo below shows an extreme close up of my carving work to date. These three lengths of acanthus leaves are needed for one side of the barge. Once completed I need to carve another set for the port side. But those will be mounted upside down as they are a mirror image. I am almost done with this set....Just a little remains on the center example. I am using a #11 blade 98% of the time. The close up is pretty brutal.....warts and all you can see how the carving went. It looks much much better when viewed normally and no finish has been applied yet. I keep the other two that are finished close by as I work on this one because they must all look the same. I also included the contemporary barge model so you can see how these three pieces will become the continuous length of carving along the side of the barge aft. Its pretty typical of the acanthus leaf carving designs on any ship model. I figured its better done in three small lengths than one huge piece....just in case a one-time error that ruins the piece I am working on....the other two will still be fine and usable. Each one took me about six or seven hours to carve in a few one or two hour sessions. Chuck

They are fine woods for carving in large scale but I wouldnt think it a good choice for the smaller carving we do. For many reasons. Its hard to get basswood to hold a hard edge when carving that tiny...it has a tendency to split and break as well. Just too fuzzy. In some cases on the design we will be carving pieces that have areas that are just 1/32" x 1/32" and this could fall in area where the grain runs in a less than optimal direction. So it would be tough to keep the integrity of the small pieces using any soft wood. I have carved some areas down to 1/64" x 1/64". Very fragile. If you have spent three hours carving a piece the last thing you want to happen is to get a break on a very thin area because the wood is too soft. Best to stick with woods that are much harder and stronger. I carved the crown cipher in cherry just to test it out...it was much more difficult to do and you had to be so much more careful and gentle with it. Even slightly dull blades will pull and split small areas of the design. And Cherry is much harder than Linden or Bass. It is possible but why not just use a harder wood to start with to make the process less problematic. Its fine for carving larger...but when you get these blanks you will understand how basswood or even Linden would just not work that well. Chuck

No but I am sure that would work....I just had a bunch of bad cherry I needed to use up. I am sure any relatively hard base will do. About 3/16" thick or even 1/8" thick.

The stop cut is very important in relief carving. It is a two stroke cut that is used to create depth and relief. If you look at the crown design you can see the cross piece of the letters. I have indicated a stop cut on each side of the cross piece in red. To replicate this in my crude playdoh demo.....I have created the letter A. Note the wood grain added. The first stroke in a stop cut is to slice very carefully to the depth you want. In this case I am creating a cut straight down. Remember not to try and go too deep on the first try but rather make a series of stop cuts until you reach the desired depth and shape. So this first stroke if very shallow to only just begin creating depth. Heres what it looks like in playdoh The second stroke of a stop cut is to slice a very thin sliver off. Carve with your blade or chisel towards the stop cut. A small sliver should pop free creating depth. Repeat this process until you reach a depth and shape you want....yes I know it doesnt look great in playdoh but you get the idea. I am using a small kitchen knife to represent my micro chisel or #11 blade. Remember that the piece is just 1/32" thick so you will be taking it down at microscopic intervals as you repeat the two stroke stop cut many times on each side of the cross piece. Then start the process on the other side of the cross bar... Eventually you will have created some depth in the piece and then you could further shape it by rounding off the edges and cleaning it up.... again ...take a look at my first attempt and and how the cross piece of the letters looks after applying stop cuts to each side....then cleaning it up. I am sure more experienced carvers can do a much better job with it but this particular cut is used throughout relief carving for ship model carvings. You will use it a lot. As I did on my paper design...you can mark where you want your stop cuts in advance....they are shown in red on the drawing. You can see the other carving and probably pick out where I used the stop cut. I like to plan ahead and mark them out on my drawing. I like to pencil where all of the overlaps will be and depth is created. Its easy to lose track when you lose yourself in the carving process and seeing the pencil marks on the carving helps avoid a mistake where you will have to start over. see my pencil marks on the uncarved half of this piece. They show where I will use stop cuts.