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Chapman
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18′ Cutter for Syren — Clinker or Carvel Built?
Chapman replied to glennb17's topic in Wood ship model kits
An addendum: I remembered that I have an article about the U.S. Brig Syren 1803. A Naval Architectural Study of the U.S. Brig Argus. BY W.M.P. DUNNE Published in the NAUTICAL RESEARCH JOURNAL Contemporary information exists (Argus Journal of Indents, Naval History Society Collection) on the three boats of the U.S. Brig Argus from 1803. It describes the cutter on board, its size (25 ft) and its equipment (with a well and windlass), but not whether it was a clinker boat. It seems doubtful whether any information about the Syren's boats can be found. Perhaps in the logbook, if it still exists. Based on current knowledge, I would build the cutter with carvel planking. -
18′ Cutter for Syren — Clinker or Carvel Built?
Chapman replied to glennb17's topic in Wood ship model kits
Clinker boats are more difficult to repair, which is probably why the English preferred clinker cutters on board in their home waters rather than on long overseas voyages. I don't know how the Americans handled this. The US frigate Constitution has been quite well researched, and there is a wealth of information on the types of boats used on board. Author Tyrone G. Martin has compiled such facts in his literature on the Constitution. The USS Constitution Museum has also collected information on the boats. -
My respect for this amazing rigging on this scale. It requires a lot of patience and a steady hand. How do you motivate yourself?
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I actually wanted to reply to Force9's last post, which unfortunately no longer exists. However, it's no longer visible. So I'll skip the reply for now.
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I have the following from Eriksen: CONSTITUTION All SAILS UP AND FLYING. Chapter on Flags and Pennants 1812-1815. Pages 142-145 From Captain Hull's log: "...then hoisted our Ensigns and Jack, at the Fore and Main Top Gallant Mastheads." Eriksen supplements this information with his interpretation for the flags flying on Constitution under Captain Hull. Stars and Stripes from the peak and a second flag with canton even high with the main topgallant masthead. The U.S. Union Jack from the foremast (same height), and the Commission Pennant from the main mast-truck. My addition: Hull was not a commodore in this case, so it is quite likely that no broad pennant is displayed at the time of the engagement with the Guerriere.
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Attached is an excerpt from the original plan. Hope it helps.
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Hi Markus, Flags with the slogan "Don't tread on me" or "Catch me if you can" are very common on contemporary depictions of US privateer ships from the War of 1812. "Catch me if you can" is pretty cheeky.😀
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Hello Waldemar, Interesting project. I hope a better plan for the Randolph can be found. M.V. Brewington thought about the design of the first US frigates many years ago. His article, with plans for the first US frigates, can be found online. I don't know if you're familiar with it. Published in: The American Neptune Vol. VIII No. 1 January 1948 Unfortunately, the plan for the Randolph isn't any better there either.
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I also find it worth mentioning that Corné depicts the USF Constitution's farewell salute here, possibly to a US battery from the home port. The ship's flag is lowered halfway and then raised again, accompanied by a simultaneous cannon salute.
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Pennants can also be seen on merchant ships; at least I know of two depictions of the famous sloop Union (1794?) with a pennant. I thought this might be a home pennant upon arrival in her home port, but she also carries this pennant in Nootka Sound.
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Attached is a recently discovered MIT link to a high-resolution file depicting the frigate USS Boston. Thanks to Baugean and the MIT Museum.
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It looks as if your Vanguard's shrouds are in danger of being damaged by its own guns. It's also worth noting that the gun ports for carronades are larger than those for cannons. Every conversion of a model involves a lot of work, also because you are not aware of all the problems beforehand. Attached for comparison is the plan of the Spartiate as fitted for the RN in 1803. The Spartiate is still very French, but also shows corresponding RN modifications. Edit: HMS Spartiate is excellently documented for a conversion based on the Heller Le Superbe kit, except for the masts. A French Spartiate would also be possible after appropriate research.
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The Arrogant class is correct according to the anatomy book on HMS Bellona that I have in front of me right now. I got the classification for the Edgar class from Threedecks.org. Why they created a new subclass, I don't know at the moment.
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HMS Vanguard, as one of the Edgar class ships, is certainly well represented in its initial state of construction by the plans of her class mate Elephant 1786. The forecastle would certainly have looked the same in 1798. The time when the forecastle of ships of the line was equipped with a bulwark came only a few years later.
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A lot of interesting information about the ship can be found in the fabulous book about HMS Bellerophon. David Cordingly: Billy Ruffian from 2004. It's been about 20 years since I read the book, so I can't say for sure whether the armament was covered in more detail, but the book was definitely worth reading.
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Hi! I've been following the construction report from the beginning. I noticed that the French plan of the ship, from the first album of Admiral Paris Souvenirs de Marine, shows the construction of the rudder and sternpost in more detail. Perhaps that will be of interest to you. I'm attaching the relevant plan excerpt.
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The schooner brings several advantages to the group: unlike square-rigged merchant ships, it can sail close to the wind and, especially during longer missions, can also serve as a kind of mother ship. For example, it can tow boats to conserve the rowers' energy, transport large supplies, etc. And from the tops of the masts, one can identify a target earlier. However, some types of rowboats also have the ability to set sail. However, they would likely be inferior to the schooner in rough seas.
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It was common practice to use boats to attack ships in harbors, even on the high seas when there was no wind. This was particularly successful at night because of the surprise. If the loss of human life was not an issue, things could get bloodier during the day. The latter is exemplified by the boat attack in 1814 by the frigate HMS Endymion on the privateer Prince de Neufchatel.
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Below a information about Rigols from the book Navy Board Ship Models 1650-1750 by John Franklin. I've had the book for so long that I've not thought about it anymore. Quote from the book: From about 1675, port rigols are fairly frequently seen on models. The two Rigol drawings in the book are of the type shown in post 8. And indeed, a few pages further on there is a photo showing Rigols at the model of the third rate Hampton Court of 1678.
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The described action shows parallels to the Danish-British Gunboat War of 1808–1814, in which groups of gunboats attacked English sailing ships such as gunbrigs (HMS Turbulent for example) and forced them to surrender several times.
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I agree with that, of course. The earliest models I have found equipped with Rigols are these three First Rates linked above. I don't know of any others before that time at the moment. I haven't found any other models equipped like that before that. That's my own interim assessment after just a short search. I think only the discovery of a corresponding instruction from the Admiralty or perhaps one of the royal shipyards regarding the appropriate equipment with Rigols could provide accurate data.
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Here is a small excerpt from my first link, a first rate from 1725. The upper gun deck understandably has no rigols. The middle gun deck has some, except for places where water cannot flow down. The lower gun deck interestingly has differently shaped rigols than the middle gun deck. The models of ships of the line HMS Sussex and Boyne, both 80 gun ships from the 1690s, have no rigols at all. Edit: I suspect that around 1700 there was an order from the Admiralty to introduce Rigols.
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I offer you the 1720s. British first rate Edit: or a little earlier this one Edit: it can still be done a little earlier as this one shows
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If you have a deeper interest in the Battle of the Nile I can recommend the following book. There are certainly many books about naval battles, and a lot has been written about the Battle of the Nile. For me, the best book about the Battle of the Nile is: Nelson and the Nile: The Naval War Against Bonaparte 1798 by Brian Lavery. This tells the story before, during and, often neglected, after the battle in great detail. In particular, the description of how the ships, some of which were badly damaged, were repaired on site after the battle.
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Neverland Hobby - is this a legit model manufacturer?
Chapman replied to bruce d's topic in Plastic model kits
In addition to the shop in Brussels, there is also a Chinese manufacturer called Neverland Hobby https://www.scalemates.com/de/kits/neverland-hobby-8001-das-u-boot--1510553
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