Keith Simmons

Hello David B., My Dad gave me the plans about 20 years ago. The Buzzards Bay is definitely a Beautiful Boat 
 
Best Regards,
Pete

Thanks all.
I'm going to go with the frames.  All of my "next" projects are fully framed and I want to get this technique down.  Now that may change... but for now, I need to do it framed if nothing else than to prove to myself I can succeed.
 
Gary,
I got the info from a very reliable source who PM'd me about the framing.  I think that at 1755 (when the ship was built) is what he meant about the frames.  They were different than the English when they did appear, that's true.  Anyway, I'm not ready to try lofting yet which is what it would take to redo the framing properly.  Maybe down the road a bit..  Like when I'm ready for HMS Roebuck?   
 
For reference, I'm using the Bonhomme Richard, Frolich's book, as well as the websites of Bello, Delacroix, Mailliere, and some French forums (reading only via Google Translator).   But, I will keep your offer in mind as sometimes conversation is needed instead of just reading.
 
Druxey,
Just curious if you have a source online?   Even our aviation oriented hobby shop can't get good birch plywood.   I have a side project for my Admiral I want to build that will need some good plywood (thin stuff <1/4").  

Thanks again for the wonderful comments and support everyone.
 
One of the previous problems I had was no definitive reference points.  This led to more than a few errors in the heat of battle... err.. building. 
 
I'm adding some things to the frame drawings...  the cutline is being defined as are the wale locations, gunport, and deck clamps.  Hahn defines these on his framing diagram but then suggests that we cut up his plans and use them to mark up the hull...     I'm planning on "nicking" gently the frame at some of these points such as cutline, wales, putting in a nub to mount the deck clamps on, and as before, pre-cutting out the gunport area.   I've also marked the frame drawings with lines at the outside/bottom edge of the build board so I don't make the frames over long.
 
The frame in the pic doesn't have any gunport work but is representative and I still have another 54 frames to do... 

 
Lastly, I've mounted the framing diagram (since it has 95% of the reference points I need) on a piece of Masonite.  When I'm done verifying each frame, I'll glue a strip of wood to overlay the baseboard line.  This will give me a positive reference point when using the EdT Measuring Tool.  Again, I know I had some issues getting the bottom end dead on the line for the base board consistently. 
 
For those who haven't see it, it's a great tool for transferring reference points from plans to the build.  It came from Ed's Naiad build.  Mine is made from boxwood with some brass fittings and a steel thumbscrew.

 

Wow, I've been off practicing my carving and checked in to MSW to find this surprise. What a brave attitude to restart such a large endeavor but as I've learned, that is just the way the ship building business works out sometime. Not stepping back was maybe what caused such disasters as the Wasa disaster.
 
I'm sure there is no fun in making such a momentous decision, but continuing while knowing would have destroyed the future of fun on the build. Sometimes the biggest setbacks are what make the journey so much more interesting, even through the disappointment. I think its good for beginners like myself to learn this lesson quickly and thank you for letting us experience it with you. Your not only an outstanding moderator but a shining example of this hobbies great builders and I consider you a mentor as you've help teach and motivate me in my endeavor towards always becoming better at this hobby.
 
I hope your old build log remains in the forum and you might consider linking it in your first post here, kind of like a ship wreck for others to see that even the best laid plans sometime go awry and require drastic measures to correct. I've always believed we learn WAY more from our mistakes then our successes and there is true benefit for others builder (especially new builders) to witness the issues of others and understand that this is part of the path to being better.
 
I'm looking forward to seeing more FUN.
 
On a side note, As I looked over my ANCRE Le Requin plans yesterday and thought about your experience here I questioned....
I've considered ordering the Amati Xebec plans and building a POB (I prefer the smaller 1:60) as a practice run before attempting a full POF. Something to help get a feel for the shape and lay of the ship. You mentioned the problems of using 2 sets of plans and I'd use each set for each build ( i.e. ANCRE for the 1:48 POF and the Amati for the 1:60 POB). My main reasoning for this is I'm lazy and don't wish to rescale the 1:48 plans to 1:60.
Would you recommend this as a good practice or a waste of time. I guess what I'm asking, had you build a POB structure prior to the POF, would it have helped point out issues and helped prevent this for you?
Thanks for your sharing of experience, I find living vicariously though others builds very helpful in learning. As I start my 2nd year building I am amazed at the levels I've achieved and all credit goes to MSW and her community. Without MSW I'd have surely given up in frustration. It really makes me appreciate those that have build prior to the internet forums for support. 
 
To one of the best, Mark!   Cheers and may the sailing be smooth from here for you!

After cleaning up the shipyard a bit, here goes....   New framing wood has been ordered but due to Jeff at Hobbymill's schedule it won't be here until late (very late) April.  I'm planning on using up my existing stock of swiss pear, ebony, pear, silver maple, and cherry and maybe some boxwood if I see fit. 
 
At this stage, I'm poring over the plans and notating such things as wale, gunport, and deck clamp locations on the individual frame drawings as I'm planning on putting some reference points on the frames physically as I cut them.  This should solve some of my previous issues..  With 60 frames, this is going to take a bit.
 
I have a new build board laid out and prepped but not cut.  The frame reference board is ready to go.
 
I'm still making a final decision on whether to stick with cherry or go with boxwood for the keel, stem, and stern items.   Version 1.0 sits forlornly in another part of the shipyard waiting for various bits and pieces to be cannibalized.  I'll be re-using my old fabricated measuring tools and making some new ones.
 
Hopefully, by the time the framing stock arrives, all the plans will be annotated and scanned, all the bits and pieces from V 1.0 will be cannibalized, and bunches of new bits will be fabricated and then ready and waiting. 
 
It's time to do this beast right and proper... and to have some fun doing it.
 
Footnotes to the build:  I'm adding to this as I discover things.
The Hahn plans lack a lot of details so additional sources will be needed.
    a) Hahn's "Ships of the American Revolution" is a must to understand the building method.
    b)  I also recommend the "La Belle Poule" monograph from ANCRE.  This has period bits and pieces along with the proper rigging as Hahn used La Venus which has pointed out to me as being from a later period.
 
 

Still a lot of work to do beginning with catch up sanding, Final hull dimensions are 36"L x 7"T x 8"W, my best guess at the final overall dimensions is 54"L x 51"T x 16"W. The only thing I am sure of is that the Captains quarters will have an American cherry deck, the sterncastle is African Mahogany and it will have 9 guns....

Great job Pete, you have inspired me to try a (real) frame on my next ship...

Art, When I built Blue Jackets Atlantic (which was a while ago, pictures below) only a red/iron oxide color was mentioned. The green artist rendering is cool looking but may be the artist concept....As always it is your choice...


 

I have a block of basswood 2x2x10 and will play with it, having basic carving tools and and no chisels will see how it goes(also no carving skills). If it seems overwhelming will go the frame route, will be easier. I think that your right on with frames and strips.
 
That being said your right they were carved out of Koa wood logs and to be faithful to the original builders probably should be carved from block. Hows that for being decisive! 

Will see what others suggest and go with the overwhelming to carve or not to carve.
 
Thanks grsjax appreciate your input.

Very nice choice Ed.   I may have some stuff laying around for the YA.   I was planning on building her a few years back and was starting to compile some research.  Should I find that info I will get it to you straight away.
 
Looking forward to seeing this one take shape.
 
Chuck

Young America - extreme clipper 1853
Part 1 - Decisions 
I took most of the summer deciding whether I would undertake another ship model and if so, what the scope and subject would be.  I had a lot of time to think about this while catching up on neglected home maintenance and repair projects.  After deciding that I needed the challenge of another ambitious project, the decisions on scope and subject kept me busy through July.  I also had to decide whether I could commit to another Naiad-like build log.  We shall see.
 
I received a number of suggestions on subjects and that input is most appreciated.  Since I expect this project to span a number of years, the decision was a big one.  I have enjoyed wrestling through the process of deciding.  I had a number of criteria:  1) significant design/drafting content, 2) fully-framed construction to further explore my interest in structures, 3) a change from the well-trod path of fully-framed 18th Century Royal Navy subjects, 4) avoiding commonly modeled ships, and 5), I thought it was time to do an American ship. 
 
Before focusing on the extreme American clippers, I considered, among many other possibilities, a 19th Century American warship, perhaps steam-sail, and looked seriously at some of the ships by John Lenthall, built locally at the Philadelphia Navy Yard – examples: Germantown (sail), Princeton (screw/sail), Susquehanna (paddle/sail).  
 
In the end, the idea of the extreme clipper was too attractive to dismiss.  To me, this type represents an apex of achievement in wooden sailing ship design and construction – in terms of sleek hull lines, sailing performance, structural development and sheer beauty.  In the design of the extreme clippers, minimum tradeoffs were made to the one paramount design parameter  - achieving the shortest sailing times between far-flung ports.  Speed meant not only sleek hull lines and a spread of canvas, but also the strength to withstand continuous hard driving, day-in, day-out. 
 
After deciding on the clipper – and an American (meaning all wood) clipper - I chose the work of William H. Webb of New York.  It would have been easier to select something from his more popular competitor, Donald McKay, but McKay’s ships built at East Boston, have long been widely modeled – Staghound, Flying Cloud, Lightning and others. McKay’s papers do include substantial structural detail – very tempting.  Webb, too, has left papers, and these have been explored, with information published in the secondary sources I have used.  There are many gaps, but there is a family resemblance in details to all these ships and many practices and scantlings were commonly adopted.  Webb presented more of a challenge – in more ways than one – as I will describe later. 
 
Of Webb’s ships, I chose Young America, built in 1853, his last extreme clipper.  Less is known about her construction than some of his others, so the task of piecing her structure together is more interesting.  I will discuss this, the ship, and the extreme clipper era in the next posts.
 
Below is a photo of Young America, docked at San Francisco, a frequent port of call for her.  She was built mainly for the East Coast to California trade.  In the picture she is rigged with double topsails - a modification from her original single topsail rig.  There are also some paintings of her.  She was considered Webb’s masterpiece – one of his twelve clippers in a list that included renowned ships like Challenge, Comet, Invincible, Flying Dutchman – all of these examples being 200 to 240 feet in length. YA enjoyed a thirty-year career that included fifty passages around Cape Horn.  She set a number of sailing records and earned a ton of money for her various owners – and for those who made money betting on passage times.  In 1883 she left Philadelphia carrying 9200 barrels of Pennsylvania case oil, cleared Delaware Bay and was never heard from again.
 

 
The model may be fully rigged.  I will decide later.  With the hull length involved (240’) the scale is likely to be 1:72, but that is not yet cast in stone.
 
Structural drawings are well along and I expect to start construction later in September.
 
I hope these posts will be of interest and perhaps draw some attention to this somewhat neglected modeling genre.
 
Ed
 
 
 
 

Great job Pete, you have inspired me to try a (real) frame on my next ship...

Still a lot of work to do beginning with catch up sanding, Final hull dimensions are 36"L x 7"T x 8"W, my best guess at the final overall dimensions is 54"L x 51"T x 16"W. The only thing I am sure of is that the Captains quarters will have an American cherry deck, the sterncastle is African Mahogany and it will have 9 guns....

Very nice Keith!
 
Cheers
 
Patrick

Great job Pete, you have inspired me to try a (real) frame on my next ship...

Great job Pete, you have inspired me to try a (real) frame on my next ship...

Still a lot of work to do beginning with catch up sanding, Final hull dimensions are 36"L x 7"T x 8"W, my best guess at the final overall dimensions is 54"L x 51"T x 16"W. The only thing I am sure of is that the Captains quarters will have an American cherry deck, the sterncastle is African Mahogany and it will have 9 guns....

Great job Pete, you have inspired me to try a (real) frame on my next ship...

I was having problems with sawdust build up on the wheels of my 14" bandsaw.  I looked around for a add on wheel brush to solve the problem but the ones offered by various outlets just didn't seem adequate.  A Google search brought up this article. http://lumberjocks.com/projects/19465
 
Great idea to use an old toothbrush as a wheel brush.  Cheap and easy, my favorite two words.

Last night I was able to get the Sheer plank and first 3 rows of planking installed. Next will be to continue with getting the rest of the Planking installed. Here are the results

Last night and this morning, I installed the planks that make up the Keel, and then installed the Garboard, I then sanded them with 220 grit sandpaper. Next will be to install the Sheer Strake and plank the Hull. Here are the results

So the Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack is done and I am taking on a new challenge. Really looking forward to working on the AVS and my first planked hull build. Given how the smack went, you can count on this one taking a while and on lots of basic questions. If my experience to date is any indication you won't let me down! (I know I'll be leaning heavily on GuntherMT's comprehensive build log, which is fantastic, if you haven't checked it out.)

I haven't started inventory-ing and organizing all the parts, but wanted to get a few "unboxing" pics up. I've got replacement rope and blocks on the way from Chuck and am looking to get some holly from Crown or the Lumberyard for the deck. Here's what the good folks at ModelExpo sent:


 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks great, I'm going to have to learn how to make a hull frame someday...

Looks great, I'm going to have to learn how to make a hull frame someday...

Thanks Piet, I never know what the hull shape will be till I'm done. Design on the fly...