rwiederrich

Canary image just aft of the main mast..showing the boy cabin removed from over the main hatch.

A rare image from her poop deck toward the main house...

A fellow Glory hound drew this of her figurehead

Vladimir..here is a rare image of her relatively close...when she was a canary. Then a cold storage ship

Yes...I built her after much of her previous additions had been removed. Mjelde shows these differences on his drawing of her deck features...where later and earlier additions were added or removed. Glory had a colorful history, with many modifications....so modeling her with the helm cabin addition or with the boys cabin with its gangway to the roof addition or with her boats partly over her poop and over boat skids...mods,,,or when her boats were stored on top of the boys cabin. So many phases to build her in. It appears you drew her at the height of her modifications. Love the test model for the stern....... Doing the same for the bow might enlighten us to her full bodied entrance. Great job for sure.... Did you see my correction and manner of deducing the bow issue? Rob

Now check your angle based upon the angle devised from the photograph Rob

Your drawing is magnificent and at 1/65 makes is pretty significant. I see you drew her with the chicken coop on the forward hatch and the boys cabin on the aft hatchway...to also include the gangway that let to its roof. Splendid...what year would you place her at? Upon further evaluation.....I noticed that the angle of the stem might be a bit too vertical.....This can be easily calculated by doing a vertical test from the image I posted of her(again). To check the angle of the bow entry...first locate the anchor hanging from the port cathead in the image...now by using the shank body of the anchor as a plumbob....draw a line down through its center to the ground. This will give you the actual plum or true vertical in the picture. Now compare this vertical to the angle of the bow. This can be done by measuring the distance the stem is from the plum anchor and then measure from the stem down at keel level and again with the plum line from the anchor...from these two measurements you can devise the angle of difference...establishing with some accuracy the true stem angle. You're doing a great job..... Here is a drawing of what I mean...you can see the angle is a bit greater then I think you may have..... So excited. Rob

One thing I noticed and we might want to reconsider is the amount of curve of the frames forward. If you notice the photo I posted of the Glory on her launching...with McKay in the picture....if you look closely at the pole shadow by the gangway forward...you can see the shadow of that pole against the hull and it clearly shows the greater curve extending up from the keel...….follow along the hull toward the stern and you will notice the additional shadows along her hull. From keen deduction...it appears that Glory has a far more extreme curve amidships then even Sovereign. With towering sides much like a man of war...that she had been described as having. I think...if you see what I am seeing...you may also conclude that your drawing of her frames might need some adjusting to include these obvious differences. Glory has a stem or bow shape mush similar to that of the Challenge...but becomes much fuller quite quickly like the Sovereign....but even more so. Rob.

Looks sweet.....now for some elevations and bulkhead spacing with the stem and stern for perspective........ Knowing the Glory's length and profile...it is a simple matter of combining these aspects to give us the profile. Looking a bit further at your final rendering..she is looking very similar to the medium clipper Andrew Jackson...accept for the stem, which is a bit more rounded at the entrance of the vertical. Here are some line drawings of several clippers so illustrate the cutwater and stem angle of the bow....disregard the deadrise where not applicable.

If I were to make the drawing...I would draw out the Sovereigns bulkhead/frame plan excluding the sovereign's bow and incorporate a more harmonious bow that represents the Glory...probably by utilizing her images. Sovereigns bow is more like that of the Lightning...sharp and curvey. But the Glory bow or stem is more vertical, like Star of Empire/Chariot of Fame. Kinda like Young America. Couple those two elements and I think you might have something very close to what the hull of Glory looked like. You're doing a great job. Rob

Vladimir...you have done a wonderful thing, in your complete research. Your comparisons are quite compelling. My initial quandary concerning the Sovereign appears to be the more likely. I say this with some reserve, however the Sovereign was built in 1852 at the height of McKay's design career. Secondly she was slightly larger then Glory, at 2421 tons, compared to Glory's 2102 tons. Knowing that McKay rarely used the same design, always trying to better the last...but with Glory, he was trying to make a final *push*, a final last statement of sailing perfection, and I can't but think he drew(In part) from what he knew worked in the past..... As was his habit he did make slight changes in her design and model and Glory was a full bodied Medium clipper, where as the Sovereign was an extreme clipper design...and that distinction lies in her entry and exit....not so much in her rotund midship framing. I think if the forward framing was bulked up to bring the flatness of the bottom farther forward and the entry of the concaved forward frames was filled out a bit you might have it. Once a drawing is complete I would be more then interested in seeing it, if you go that far. Great job. Rob

I see your #5 drawing comparison shows the Sovereign and the Glory with very close frame designs amidships. This makes sense since the sovereign was known as the fastest clipper, holding several records for speed and miles traveled in a 24 hour period. I can only assume Donald McKay desired to model Glory after a known successful design. He did, however change the bow entry to more of a vertical incline then reduced as was the Sovereign. Great work...I hope to glean from what you come up with. Rob

You are doing a great work...exactly what I would do. Amidship frames are quite evident in deadrise...I want to see what you do with the bow and convexity and concaved aspects of the bow comparisons... Great job for sure. Love it. Rob

Found this schooner up in Pt Townsend. Pretty cool name .

Interesting thoughts. I have a book with plans for the BFP..problem is the cutwater or the angle of the bow is not right for the Glory...plus the deadrize..the angle of the hull from the keel is far more extreme then is found on the Glory. The Glory is considered to be in the design of the Downeasters...and a fore runner of said design...so has more the deadrise of the Champion of the Seas then the Packard. The book *How to make a clipper ship model* has plans for the *Sovereign of the Seas*, which is again a fuller design the Packard. Personally, I feel the Great Republic hull design is more in keeping with the Glory's design. If one changes the spherical curvedbow to a sharper bow of the Glory and one removes the weather deck of the GR and installs a typical gunwale......you might have a very close replica of the Glory's hull design. One needs to combine the full body design of the Glory/GR with less of an extreme design entry of the GR and the Sovereign of the Seas. More bow design like that of the Young America. Fun stuff for sure. Rob

I might even consider building just a hull model of her....myself. From draying I make and plank on bulkhead design. Rob

That looks familiar...... Rob

Vladimir...your desire to build a replica of the Glory is commendable...and will take some real research, even though Mjelde's book does cover her deck plan very well...the hull is left to the imagination. This will rely on your observation skills, not to mention some deductive conclusions. When I built the Glory...my desire at the time was to use an existing Revell Cutty Sark hull and modify it enough to correct the cutwater of the bow and correct the under emphasized gunwale...not to mention the correction of the forecastle and poop. Correction of the deadrise could not be made with that plastic hull....so I simply accepted what I had. but if I were to do it all over again...I'd find or develop plans for a heavy bodied Downeaster hull design. Photographic images of the Glory's hull(as she is on the beach), and at her launching, shows she was of a fuller design....not the extreme clipper design of the Cutty Sark. It can be done..but work and research will have to be employed. I hope you look into it further. Rob

Not only Boston, but the historical societies of Seattle and San Francisco refused to stay her demise as well. Since there are no modeled replications of these McKay vessels...I sought to create them myself. Kits of the Flying Fish and Flying Cloud are all the manufacturers are willing to invest in. Far too many other McKay vessels have impactful exciting histories that need to be told. I will complete the Donald McKay in her watery display once I finish up the Glory of the Seas. Rob

These deck houses are quite small compared to the scale you are working in...the houses are made from wood and some bits of vinyl, and plastic. I'm glad you can glean from my efforts. Rob

The dull-coat knocks down any sheen the tape produces, plus it permits me a dull surface and one with enough surface adhesion to permit me to draw on the panel lines cleanly. I'm always thinking and looking for ways to *cheat* my way around doing anything difficult....and if my methods are unorthodox and the materials and techniques used non-purist.....Well.....I can live with that. We are, in reality, MODELING the prototype...not actually making it. Loose, tricky, lazy and outside of the box...has been my modeling mantra for years. Rob

Fantastic wood work on the deck houses....this scale really allows you the room to add such detail....great job.... Rob

Thanks Keith...I wasn't sure if the texture or the shade would match between the paper and masking tape....but since the tape is actually rolled upon itself and wrinkled and folded then sprayed with dull-coat...it becomes quite convincing up against the paper sails. Thanks for the fine compliment. I've been so side tracked with adding a large garden building and working the garden that I've spent little time on the Glory in recent days. I hope to return very, very soon. Rob

Wonderful! First..if you want to add furled sails to the Constitution with her yards as they are...that would be absolutely perfect. If I may suggest one little item....furled sails area bit more rigorous to install, and when the yeards are mounted and fully rigged with foot ropes and such...to do so might be more problematic then anything else. Adding completely set sails would be far easier in this application....IMV One little tidbit...a secret actually,...that I have not divulged, is this...... the furled sails on my Glory of the Seas are not actually paper...as is are the set sails. Nope...for me to get the creases and folds I required, paper was going to be a tough road to hoe.....nope...I found a medium that could be rolled, crinkled, folded with little fuss and that was....plain ole 2" tan masking tape. Yep..just cut the correct width, reduce the length, taper out the ends and all was needed was to stick the tape to the yard, roll in the edges....fluff up the center and roll in the back so as not to expose the sticky side...then press and crinkle into form. Once done, you secure it in place with reef points, tied around the sail and yard. Then I drew in the panel lines...making sure to follow the accents and curves of the folded material. Once done....I sprayed on a coat of Testers Dullcoat to knock off the shine and to mimic the shade of paint I had already selected to match when I painted the paper sails. For further security, I played a small coat of white glue along the edge of the sail and the yard to make sure it won't separate. Yes I know....like I said earlier..try new things, experiment...... the final outcome is quite convincing and melds with the paper sails quite well....you'd never know unless I told you the secret....and now I did. Your Cutty Sark is wonderful, well executed and very clean. If I were to suggest anything, it would be to remove those brass chain sections and get some Blackening and blacken the chain first. It is a small touch that in the end has great benefits. It lends to greater realism. Your deck looks wonderful by the way. Sweet job for sure. Rob

Oh goodness...don't throw anything away. One doesn't become adequately proficient if one gives up. I've been building sailing ships(Mostly clippers) for over 50 years, so I wouldn't even make sucha comparison. But if you will, permit me to be of assistance, if I may. Out of necessity, I have developed many means to accommodate my goals...and much of that stems from a history of machining and fabrication experience. My father taught me so long ago, that if anyone can make it(no matter what it is), you can make it. So, instead of buying what I need, I either re-machine someone else's design to suit my needs or I simply make it myself. Your Constitution build is very good and you are accomplished yourself. Don't belittle that...but add to it and always continue to further your skill set and imagination...by trying new things...new techniques....new processes. You'll only gain priceless experience...to apply on the next project. Rob