rwiederrich

Beautiful...I completely agree about the Flying Cloud...your drawings are superb. She does look similar to Glory.....wonderful design...Donald. I have a book on figureheads and will look up tonight on the subject. I'd love to see what changes you are going to incorporate in your Glory depiction. I began a new log for this subject. Rob

I wish to include contributions from Clipperfan…..And Vladimir

I've moved the subject of building a hull model of the Medium clipper built by Donald McKay in 1869 to its own log. I didn't want it to become confusing with my 1/96 version...which is in the sail and yard stage. Within a small group of focused Glory admirers it has motivated us to(with much study and application) correct and redraw some blatant design errors that were found in her contemporary drawings commissioned by Mike Mjelde and published in his book about the Glory of the Seas. Recent discovered photographic evidence, coupled with previously published imagery has caused those of us who are passionate about her to redraw her profile including these new changes. I will be building her in 1/75 scale...quite a large hull from what I am accustomed to building....but non the less impressive in stature and availability of detail. She will be built plank on bulkhead style and even that will be modified..where as I will be using pre-machined strips of clear pine...almost veneer like. 2"wide by 3ft long by 1/16" thick variable. This material easily conforms to the shape of the hull and can be cut and manipulated to cover her entirely. I will follow the method I used when I built the Great Republic. I have already purchased the 3/16" maple plywood and will be gluing the precut bulkhead templets to it soon. Here are some images of the drawings and the templets and overall profile....NOTE...I will be making other changes to her stem and cutwater as I go...which I will draw upon the profile so as to follow the corrections that have been made. I want to also thank several members for aiding me in my quest and who also share in the love of the Glory of the Seas....member Clipperfan and member Vladimir Wairoa. Your assistance is and own personal passion is much appreciated. A Disclaimer for all who may be watching and who are purists in their own right.....I am a crude...lazy....modeler and will most likely use techniques and methods/materials that are overtly unorthodox......please forgive me now and allow me my ranting and miss-steps.

Wonderful...Yes even Campbell refers to the *Hood* as unique to *certain* clipper designers and was not supported by external knees as was found on some British clippers and some earlier American clippers(Cheek boards). It was as you described...large bolted and supportive of the bowsprit and the firm backing for the figurehead. Your rendering is becoming clearer and is(IMV) becoming closer to what she actually looked like....however, I still see a bit of an issue with your figurehead and stem dimensions. It appears the figureheads length is nearly as long as the stem is beneath her feet to the beginning of the planking. If you measure her length and compare it to the distance from her feet to the beginning of the hulls planking, you will see they are very close in length....meaning, your rendering of the stem length in your drawing is too long, thus your curve of the cutwater is to long. I compared this notion to all of her close up images. Her *beak* is too long. Also, If I may, it appears you also need to shorten or tighten the radius of the stem and keel junction. The Peabody image clearly shows that curve is sharper then in your rendering. Other then those two minor items, it appears you have captured and corrected the most glaring errors of her previously recorded profile....and you've done it superbly....if I must say. Her body height is much more closely resembling her images and her corrected sheer makes all the difference. I am well pleased(Not that, that matters). Rob

Good news Clipperfan. I'm seeing this too and it is clear seeing perspectives can vary...I'm noticing it ever more regularly as I study her from different eras and angles. Disregarding and including shadow distortions can be problematic as well. Your 40" rendering would be magnificent to have...it would be a great aid. Your reference to Naval Hoods I'm assuming are referencing her *cheek plates*? Ornamental carving on the Glory was found on her stem and on the cheeks...that were mounted just above the Howes hole and forward to just ahead of the figure. On your 1911 dockside image of her, the ornamentation on the stem knee has apparently fallen off. Again...thank you for your exemplary contributions in these matters. I would be interested in anything you have worked on concerning the Flying Cloud as well. Thank you. Rob

Yeah...her entry is still very sharp so I will be making mods to the bulkheads as I lay them up on the keel. Currently, I have to clean up the wood shop a bit(been working on telescope stuff) before I glue the bulkhead sheets to the plywood...prior to cutting. I'm gonna do this exactly like I did the Great Republic. Once laid out and glued...I'll section off the bulkheads and then cut them out. During this time I will have to plain down the maple I will be using for the keel and stem and the bow sections. I will NOT be building this like the boys over in the Young America logs....They are building their fine models in exact manner as the prototypes. Not me...I'm a *Hack* modeler...all I'm concerned with is the end results. So what will the scale be if I make her 40" long? Around 1/75 I think. Over 3ft 4in. Rob

One last note...her original copper line might have been added to, to compensate for her greater cargo carrying capability, due to her *Medium* clipper distinction and more of a DownEaster distinction. Again, note the comparisons of both the Hyde and the Glory in similar positions....eerily similar...don't you think? Rob

You are getting so close. It appears your cheek plates are a bit elongated and lack the proper curve atop of the howes hole to just behind the figurehead underneath the bowsprit. Also...it still appears to need some hull height, because if you look at the Peabody photo, you can easily determine the distance from the mid hull opening(hatchway for long items) to the rail and the copper line. I think it needs to increase. Also it is clear the copper line on her launching and on the images of her at dockside getting fitted out for cannery service and being towed off are not the same. In the Peabody image the copper line appears to begin roughly 5 ft below the lower bobstay, but the fitting out image the copper line(Or what appears to be it) begins just under the lower stay. This discrepancy can contribute to the noticeable differences I see. Also if you were to measure the channels and chainplates thickness and translate that down the hull...you could easily fit at least three within the distance from the rail and the (Original) copper line. Rail to plankshear is the thickness of the channel/chainplate...but if you compare this to your drawing...it appears there is little room before you plunge past the waterline/copper line. Well, these are all minor details that can be worked out...but for the most part you have corrected what was surely erroneous dimensions and representations. I can't wait to make these corrections myself to my plans and then begin cutting out bulkheads and the keel members. I will be using custom planed and fitted maple for the keel and bow pieces. You've done a wonderful job! I'll probably start another thread to cover this build...don't want to incorporate this build with my current Glory log. Rob

Beautiful

I purchased the plywood for the bulkheads today, so I am going to cut them out and work the hull till it coincides with the imagery and what we have devised. In the Peabody image her keel is very thin compared to what we always construct on models. It will be fun to use images to aid in this construction.

One example is the Henry B Hyde. Glory has the swooping profile and rotund bottom and entry of the Hyde...but as mentioned earlier she is taller and has sides of a *warship*. I think these examples are evolutionary changes based upon the Glory's earlier *full bodied* Medium clipper design exampled by Donald McKay. Half of Glory's hull is above the copper line, unlike the Hyde's.

Of course everything is an estimate. but I estimate roughly a 1/4 of the hull is under water from the image I posted of her at the Glacier Fish Co. dock, using her bob stay location. If my rough calculations are remotely in the ball park, she had a very tall hull...like that of Star of Empire/Chariot of Fame . Even if one rudimentarily looks are her in the Peabody image, you can clearly see she had *warship* like sides. Her Deep sides and shallow deadrise is very reminiscent of DownEasters. I feel Clipperfan is on track with correcting her curves and noting her bow is far less blunt then previously imagined. Can't wait for some drawings. Rob

I love the new curves. But I think her hull is still taller. Note the two images I posted. Also note the distance from the top of the bob says to the rail at the root of the bowsprit. Then note that the distance from the bottom of the bob stays to the waters edge is roughly the same distance. Compare this overall distance to the launching image and you can see there is still plenty of hull under the water Just at the roll from vertical to the floor. This side height is what was described as her having a warship side profile. You new drawing is an improvement, but I think the hull still needs to be taller. Do you see what I’m talking about?

Personally I can devise lots of data from these two images of her. Note the shadows of the gang poles along her side...you can see the curves of her hull quite easily...and coupled with the monkey rail and copper lines you can make out her rake and entry as quite extreme compared to her drawings. This is very exciting and I can see her real figure coming alive. Rob

I’m glad I was able to dig up that Puget Sound image. It makes it clear the Glory had an impressive bow and this coincides with images of her deck looking forward. I’m very interested in your corrections and any new drawings you may be indulging in. Please keep us informed . How exciting.

Well I sized up those plans to 40" from figurehead to transom. What would you do differently? I will make some changes to the slight errors, but I will pay close attention to replicate her utilizing her images as a partial guide. Here is what I have thus far.....I have cut out the bulkhead diagrams and have the elevations and spacing for them. I'm really interested in making a hull model only...with all the deck furniture/houses and such. I will build her in the fashion I built the Great Republic. Any advice and technical direction would be most appreciated. Rob

Clipperfan...my question to you is, Why not build your own version of Glory...you appear to have the intellect and historical prowess to build a very accurate representation. I think we spoke on this before. Any thoughts? Rob

Indeed...they were both 2050 tons as close to Glory's 2102 tons. Glory's stern was less elliptical and she was a bit longer. Never the less, she was very similar. Good point. Rob

My Earlier attempt to recreate the lines of Glory was met with some disappointment...based solely upon the limited material and media I was working with/from. A Revell Cutty Sark hull. My next attempt will be a more accurate hull model of the Glory. Your contributions are well accepted...thank you. Rob

It's clear from the Peabody Museum image that the Glory had a nice trim/sharp entry. Note the copper line drawn out and also note the image of her at rest with her salty waterline imposed on her hull. Despite the slight perspective distortion...it can be devised she had a sharp entry...but was slightly more robust as you proceeded back along her notable flat floor and shallow deadrise. I feel I will be able to produce from these plans...comparing to the images of her hull...a pretty good representation. Thanks for your input and evaluation. Rob

Yes Bruma..I too tried your method..but still the scale was off for me too. I did , however devise a press to impress or emboss the lateral stretch into the sails...similar to what you have created with your sails. The wrinkles and creases caused by the stretching sail to the sheet points is a very convincing effect...but I had to make the call as to what minute detail had to be eliminated to achieved the overall look I wanted Here is an image of the experiment, the sail is not cut or billowed completely...just the stretching was tested. Rob

I added stunning sails booms to the Great Republic..just no sails. My booms *Hung* below the yard were as some are on top of the yard.....both methods were used. Rob

Fantastic job. Awesome.

Just like the prototype...…..

You may have mentioned it earlier...but what do you do as a profession, if I may ask? If designing and creating the intricate tooling is one of your favorite things to do, then I can only assume you have engineering and machining in your background? There are other folks on this forum who are acute in fabricating their own tooling to create their models as well. What a skill......what a desire. I built telescopes too...but I don't always have to build the tools to build the telescopes. What a hobby. mmmmmmm Rob