lmagna

I brought both sections in the house after the smell had gone off  and surveyed the damage  - it looks like it is deffinatly  fixable, do you know what would be perfect to fix (Isolated fine sanding)  like a pointed q -tip   but made from fine grade wet and dry, so I could just sand the specks away  in hard to reach areas where there are lots of fittings  like the top of the engine covers.
 
OC.

looks really good   .....De Havland comes to mind.......

sweet look'in wagon    .....the canvas will look cool   

I didn't say that there was no effort on historical preservation. At least not these days.
 
Probably when they were first sold by McLaren to other racers they did what they needed to do to keep them legal and competitive with little thought for history, but eventually they were sold into the hands of collectors and amateur classic racers. By that time they were beginning to go up in value again. These people went about restoring the car back to one of it's original configurations probably documenting the whole process and establishing how much of the present car was still original based on the serial number. In the case of your photos, the car is possibly one of three cars manufactured in 1969. One of those cars was actually converted from a 1968 M8A so only two were M8Bs from the ground up. All three of those cars were converted to low wing M8Cs and Ds when the high wing was outlawed at the end of 1969. It gets a little confusing without the actual serial numbers and records but it is certain that all of the existing cars today went through this process and to return them to Historical Condition would require a reversal of that process. Each car has a log book that should include any and all owners, races, drivers, and modifications ever done on the car.
 
The same thing applies to even Chaparrals which Jim Hall never sold after the original Chaparral, (1s). The 1969 Chapparal 2F sits on one of the original 1965 Chaparral 2 chassis. The same goes for the 2D. The original of two 2Es was built onto the single aluminum 2C chassis, and one of the 2Es became the 2G. The Chaparral 2H and J car were unique one-of-a-kind, as was the Indy Chaparral 2K years later.
 
One set of cars that comes to mind that are an exception would be the cars raced by David Piper. He kept almost all of his green racing cars of the 60s and early 70s. So his green Ferrari 250 LM, as well as his Lola T70 MK 3B, Ferrari 365 P2 and Porsche 917K are all pretty much as he raced them in his driving carrier. I think I read somewhere he recently sold his 917K after rebuilding or replacing the engine that was destroyed in 2009 by a missed shift when being driven by freelance car journalist and race car driver Mark Hales. It ended up costing Hales $174,000 in repair and legal fees when Piper sued him and won. But that is another story as the saying goes.

The only problem with that is almost all we have to go with today is pictures like you posted of the RESTORED surviving cars. A lot has been done to most of them to return them to racing condition for running in a number of historical events each year but in many ways they have also been restored as show cars with a little extra attention to the bling factor here and there. They are also limited to the look of the parts still available. This is most often seen in the tires they have to run.
 
Here is another modern picture of a M8D

Detail on top of detail. The kit that keeps on giving. You seem to have it well in stride though Craig.
 
I have seen pictures of a couple of other builds and I think I agree with you. While much of the engine and stuff on the real cars were either black or at least dark there would have been silver braded lines and probably colored spark plug wires and possibly some color coded plumbing for other things like brake lines and such, say metallic blue braiding instead of silver. Even the magneto could be two tone instead of just plain dark.

We have something in common other than this forum and love of ships Mark.
 
My daughter-in-law was the reason I was able to get my shots as well. This state is pretty much in chaos and totally lost when it comes to shots. I don't even think they have covered 50% of the recognized seniors yet and the vaccine has been out for months now! There was another story today where a senior couple had to drive hundreds of miles across the state to get a shot. There seems to be no cohesive leadership on this effort at all.

I can't recall ever seeing a 'official' colourchart of the Dutch navy.
would be very interested when you find one.
I know that there was rather some variation, also the 'koloniale marine' used a different scheme from the 'nederlandse marine', and during the war most of the Dutch ships were attached to the English navy, and started using their colours. 
Even 'official paintings' show a wide variety (check all paintings of eg Java or De Ruyter) of colours.....
 
Jan

This is a 295-page book "Ship Painting Rules." But only 2 pages, which I scanned for you, are devoted to the colors of the external coloring.
It should be borne in mind that these are recommendations for the selection of paint colors, and not strict rules.
 
As far as I know, the Soviet navy did not adhere to very strict shades of colors. The sailors even have a saying on this score - "what kind of paint the boatswain will make, we will paint this way."

I have information on the painting of ships of the USSR Navy for the post-war period. Perhaps it will be useful.

Dennis, whats the quality of the white metal like?

Sounds like Guberment all sounds interesting will be popping in Craig/Lou Kevin

Dear all,
I am back at the workbench with my Hawker Seafury. In the last post, I finished applying the primer to the model. In preparation of the Navy livery, I wanted to give some pre-shadow texture to the surfaces that will be painted with Sky color. At the same time, having selected a display airplane, the effect should be rather subtile. I decided to go with a red brown which has a value lower than black and, being kind of complementary to the greenish Sky color, should result in a shadowy effect, in theory. Let's see what it will be in practice. After the pre-shadowing, I added also some white random mottling. After that, I wet sadanded everything getting an extremely smooth surface and some additional variation of the colors.
 

 
I ended with applying the Tamiya panel line along the panel junctions. The engine cowling and the spinner got instead a layer of yellow and they were also wet sanded in preparation for the orange.
 
This is how the sides of the fuselage look now;
 

 

 
The portions on the side that are covered by tape are the areas of the steel shrouds in the vicinity of the exhausts. The model is now ready to receive the Sky paint on its undersurfaces and on the sides. Mind that, being the subject airplane supposedly well maintained, most of the texture should almost disappear. I am curious to see the final result.
 
That is all for now,
Best regards,
Dan.
 
 
 
 

Good day all,   bit of an update  -  another nice day here  so without delay  I decided to take the Two sections out into the yard  with the intention of putting on the Nato Green  with my rattle can  - first I put my disposible glove on - shook the can  for sevaerl minutes then trying to hold the turret first using a tube I had a mde from a pringles tub,  this was tack taped underneath with tamiya tape  - first coat went on not too bad,   I put it down on my chair  and picked up the main hull  - Im used a gorrila clip to try to hold  as by holding it before with my fingers inside the turret ring - was before causing me to catch my glove on the painted surface,  anyway  spraying away  then I noticed  bits started falling on the wet paintwork as I was spraying  - it was  dry dust fragments falling off my glove, it fell on the wet paintwork like embers from a fire.
Yep  wrecked paintwork  - I will try to sand off the damage latter.
 
Always fun and games with my painting technique  - but frankly its inevatable with  how I have to work.😬
 
OC.

Yikes, I just stumbled on this post. Such attention to detail, amazing. Can't wait to get caught up on this build....only on page 2 so far.

I didn't say that there was no effort on historical preservation. At least not these days.
 
Probably when they were first sold by McLaren to other racers they did what they needed to do to keep them legal and competitive with little thought for history, but eventually they were sold into the hands of collectors and amateur classic racers. By that time they were beginning to go up in value again. These people went about restoring the car back to one of it's original configurations probably documenting the whole process and establishing how much of the present car was still original based on the serial number. In the case of your photos, the car is possibly one of three cars manufactured in 1969. One of those cars was actually converted from a 1968 M8A so only two were M8Bs from the ground up. All three of those cars were converted to low wing M8Cs and Ds when the high wing was outlawed at the end of 1969. It gets a little confusing without the actual serial numbers and records but it is certain that all of the existing cars today went through this process and to return them to Historical Condition would require a reversal of that process. Each car has a log book that should include any and all owners, races, drivers, and modifications ever done on the car.
 
The same thing applies to even Chaparrals which Jim Hall never sold after the original Chaparral, (1s). The 1969 Chapparal 2F sits on one of the original 1965 Chaparral 2 chassis. The same goes for the 2D. The original of two 2Es was built onto the single aluminum 2C chassis, and one of the 2Es became the 2G. The Chaparral 2H and J car were unique one-of-a-kind, as was the Indy Chaparral 2K years later.
 
One set of cars that comes to mind that are an exception would be the cars raced by David Piper. He kept almost all of his green racing cars of the 60s and early 70s. So his green Ferrari 250 LM, as well as his Lola T70 MK 3B, Ferrari 365 P2 and Porsche 917K are all pretty much as he raced them in his driving carrier. I think I read somewhere he recently sold his 917K after rebuilding or replacing the engine that was destroyed in 2009 by a missed shift when being driven by freelance car journalist and race car driver Mark Hales. It ended up costing Hales $174,000 in repair and legal fees when Piper sued him and won. But that is another story as the saying goes.

We have something in common other than this forum and love of ships Mark.
 
My daughter-in-law was the reason I was able to get my shots as well. This state is pretty much in chaos and totally lost when it comes to shots. I don't even think they have covered 50% of the recognized seniors yet and the vaccine has been out for months now! There was another story today where a senior couple had to drive hundreds of miles across the state to get a shot. There seems to be no cohesive leadership on this effort at all.

We have something in common other than this forum and love of ships Mark.
 
My daughter-in-law was the reason I was able to get my shots as well. This state is pretty much in chaos and totally lost when it comes to shots. I don't even think they have covered 50% of the recognized seniors yet and the vaccine has been out for months now! There was another story today where a senior couple had to drive hundreds of miles across the state to get a shot. There seems to be no cohesive leadership on this effort at all.

I didn't say that there was no effort on historical preservation. At least not these days.
 
Probably when they were first sold by McLaren to other racers they did what they needed to do to keep them legal and competitive with little thought for history, but eventually they were sold into the hands of collectors and amateur classic racers. By that time they were beginning to go up in value again. These people went about restoring the car back to one of it's original configurations probably documenting the whole process and establishing how much of the present car was still original based on the serial number. In the case of your photos, the car is possibly one of three cars manufactured in 1969. One of those cars was actually converted from a 1968 M8A so only two were M8Bs from the ground up. All three of those cars were converted to low wing M8Cs and Ds when the high wing was outlawed at the end of 1969. It gets a little confusing without the actual serial numbers and records but it is certain that all of the existing cars today went through this process and to return them to Historical Condition would require a reversal of that process. Each car has a log book that should include any and all owners, races, drivers, and modifications ever done on the car.
 
The same thing applies to even Chaparrals which Jim Hall never sold after the original Chaparral, (1s). The 1969 Chapparal 2F sits on one of the original 1965 Chaparral 2 chassis. The same goes for the 2D. The original of two 2Es was built onto the single aluminum 2C chassis, and one of the 2Es became the 2G. The Chaparral 2H and J car were unique one-of-a-kind, as was the Indy Chaparral 2K years later.
 
One set of cars that comes to mind that are an exception would be the cars raced by David Piper. He kept almost all of his green racing cars of the 60s and early 70s. So his green Ferrari 250 LM, as well as his Lola T70 MK 3B, Ferrari 365 P2 and Porsche 917K are all pretty much as he raced them in his driving carrier. I think I read somewhere he recently sold his 917K after rebuilding or replacing the engine that was destroyed in 2009 by a missed shift when being driven by freelance car journalist and race car driver Mark Hales. It ended up costing Hales $174,000 in repair and legal fees when Piper sued him and won. But that is another story as the saying goes.

I didn't say that there was no effort on historical preservation. At least not these days.
 
Probably when they were first sold by McLaren to other racers they did what they needed to do to keep them legal and competitive with little thought for history, but eventually they were sold into the hands of collectors and amateur classic racers. By that time they were beginning to go up in value again. These people went about restoring the car back to one of it's original configurations probably documenting the whole process and establishing how much of the present car was still original based on the serial number. In the case of your photos, the car is possibly one of three cars manufactured in 1969. One of those cars was actually converted from a 1968 M8A so only two were M8Bs from the ground up. All three of those cars were converted to low wing M8Cs and Ds when the high wing was outlawed at the end of 1969. It gets a little confusing without the actual serial numbers and records but it is certain that all of the existing cars today went through this process and to return them to Historical Condition would require a reversal of that process. Each car has a log book that should include any and all owners, races, drivers, and modifications ever done on the car.
 
The same thing applies to even Chaparrals which Jim Hall never sold after the original Chaparral, (1s). The 1969 Chapparal 2F sits on one of the original 1965 Chaparral 2 chassis. The same goes for the 2D. The original of two 2Es was built onto the single aluminum 2C chassis, and one of the 2Es became the 2G. The Chaparral 2H and J car were unique one-of-a-kind, as was the Indy Chaparral 2K years later.
 
One set of cars that comes to mind that are an exception would be the cars raced by David Piper. He kept almost all of his green racing cars of the 60s and early 70s. So his green Ferrari 250 LM, as well as his Lola T70 MK 3B, Ferrari 365 P2 and Porsche 917K are all pretty much as he raced them in his driving carrier. I think I read somewhere he recently sold his 917K after rebuilding or replacing the engine that was destroyed in 2009 by a missed shift when being driven by freelance car journalist and race car driver Mark Hales. It ended up costing Hales $174,000 in repair and legal fees when Piper sued him and won. But that is another story as the saying goes.

I didn't say that there was no effort on historical preservation. At least not these days.
 
Probably when they were first sold by McLaren to other racers they did what they needed to do to keep them legal and competitive with little thought for history, but eventually they were sold into the hands of collectors and amateur classic racers. By that time they were beginning to go up in value again. These people went about restoring the car back to one of it's original configurations probably documenting the whole process and establishing how much of the present car was still original based on the serial number. In the case of your photos, the car is possibly one of three cars manufactured in 1969. One of those cars was actually converted from a 1968 M8A so only two were M8Bs from the ground up. All three of those cars were converted to low wing M8Cs and Ds when the high wing was outlawed at the end of 1969. It gets a little confusing without the actual serial numbers and records but it is certain that all of the existing cars today went through this process and to return them to Historical Condition would require a reversal of that process. Each car has a log book that should include any and all owners, races, drivers, and modifications ever done on the car.
 
The same thing applies to even Chaparrals which Jim Hall never sold after the original Chaparral, (1s). The 1969 Chapparal 2F sits on one of the original 1965 Chaparral 2 chassis. The same goes for the 2D. The original of two 2Es was built onto the single aluminum 2C chassis, and one of the 2Es became the 2G. The Chaparral 2H and J car were unique one-of-a-kind, as was the Indy Chaparral 2K years later.
 
One set of cars that comes to mind that are an exception would be the cars raced by David Piper. He kept almost all of his green racing cars of the 60s and early 70s. So his green Ferrari 250 LM, as well as his Lola T70 MK 3B, Ferrari 365 P2 and Porsche 917K are all pretty much as he raced them in his driving carrier. I think I read somewhere he recently sold his 917K after rebuilding or replacing the engine that was destroyed in 2009 by a missed shift when being driven by freelance car journalist and race car driver Mark Hales. It ended up costing Hales $174,000 in repair and legal fees when Piper sued him and won. But that is another story as the saying goes.

We have something in common other than this forum and love of ships Mark.
 
My daughter-in-law was the reason I was able to get my shots as well. This state is pretty much in chaos and totally lost when it comes to shots. I don't even think they have covered 50% of the recognized seniors yet and the vaccine has been out for months now! There was another story today where a senior couple had to drive hundreds of miles across the state to get a shot. There seems to be no cohesive leadership on this effort at all.

Yes, the J car was pretty much his last attempt at ground effects. It had a separate 45HP snowmobile engine to run the fans. That was it's Achilles heel. They never got the small engine or extra mechanics to last a full race. With the vacuum running the system developed a little over 2200 pounds of down force. The car weighed about 1800 pounds. Jim Hall offered to stick it on a wall for a commercial but it was never made. when ever the fan engines were started the car would visibly suck down two inches. Jim Hall was still recovering from his injuries in the Chaparral 2G in 1968 and was not driving  competitively but was test driving the car during it's development. He said that the car could do corners at over 1.5 Gs without the tires braking loose and the he personally was never able to properly judge just how fast the car could brake coming into a turn. In his opinion Vic Elford was the only driver who ever even came close to running the J car properly. It was probably never pushed to it's limits. Jackie Stewart came to America to drive the 2J at Watkins Glen. Normally Hall couldn't afford Stewart but Jackie wanted to drive the car so badly he made Hall a special one-race deal. He qualified third. "The car's traction, its ability to brake and go deeply into the corners, is something I've never experienced before in a car this size or bulk," he wrote in his book Faster!. "Its adhesion is such that it seems to be able to take unorthodox lines through turns, and this, of course, is intriguing."
Hall said that if anything ever happened to the main engine, the suction system was powerful enough to move the car at almost 30 miles an hour back to the pits.
 
I believe the J car was the only car that beat the McLarens to the pole position in 1970 season and by the end of the year it was clear  that it was the fastest Can Am car on the track........... When working! If it had been allowed to come back in 1971 racing history could have possibly been broken again by Jim Hall. The car was called a number of things depending on who was talking, but the most common was "The ground effect car" "Vacuum car" "Kirby car' and "Sucker car" to name just a few. There were also comments to the effect that it was the only car on the track that raced in the box it was shipped in.
 
Many people, including the people who protested many of Jim Halls innovations, considered this the beginning of the end of the Can Am series. One of the concepts of the series was to encourage just what Jim Hall, Dan Gurney, and Bruce McLaren were doing. Exploring ways to make racing cars go faster, and new restrictive rules continued to come faster and faster each year until there seemed to be almost no avenues of innovation left open anymore. 

I didn't say that there was no effort on historical preservation. At least not these days.
 
Probably when they were first sold by McLaren to other racers they did what they needed to do to keep them legal and competitive with little thought for history, but eventually they were sold into the hands of collectors and amateur classic racers. By that time they were beginning to go up in value again. These people went about restoring the car back to one of it's original configurations probably documenting the whole process and establishing how much of the present car was still original based on the serial number. In the case of your photos, the car is possibly one of three cars manufactured in 1969. One of those cars was actually converted from a 1968 M8A so only two were M8Bs from the ground up. All three of those cars were converted to low wing M8Cs and Ds when the high wing was outlawed at the end of 1969. It gets a little confusing without the actual serial numbers and records but it is certain that all of the existing cars today went through this process and to return them to Historical Condition would require a reversal of that process. Each car has a log book that should include any and all owners, races, drivers, and modifications ever done on the car.
 
The same thing applies to even Chaparrals which Jim Hall never sold after the original Chaparral, (1s). The 1969 Chapparal 2F sits on one of the original 1965 Chaparral 2 chassis. The same goes for the 2D. The original of two 2Es was built onto the single aluminum 2C chassis, and one of the 2Es became the 2G. The Chaparral 2H and J car were unique one-of-a-kind, as was the Indy Chaparral 2K years later.
 
One set of cars that comes to mind that are an exception would be the cars raced by David Piper. He kept almost all of his green racing cars of the 60s and early 70s. So his green Ferrari 250 LM, as well as his Lola T70 MK 3B, Ferrari 365 P2 and Porsche 917K are all pretty much as he raced them in his driving carrier. I think I read somewhere he recently sold his 917K after rebuilding or replacing the engine that was destroyed in 2009 by a missed shift when being driven by freelance car journalist and race car driver Mark Hales. It ended up costing Hales $174,000 in repair and legal fees when Piper sued him and won. But that is another story as the saying goes.

At last I get to see what a master can do with this model/car. It is far from being the easiest kit on the market.
 
The McLaren M8B is the 1969 variant of the previous M8A and a direct descendent of the M6 cars of the years before. Driven by Denny Hulme and Bruce McLaren with the third orange factory car sometimes being driven by Dan Gurney or Chris Amon. There were 11 Can Am races that year and the M8B won every one of them. Bruce and Denny traded off who was going to win with Denny winning 5 races and Bruce the other six. Most times the factory cars won both one and two and I believe 1,2,and 3 a few times. The Can Am series of races had already  became known as "The Bruce and Denny Show", but the M8B virtually made it fact. Out of 24 starts McLaren only had 4 DNFs, the rest were wins. An enviable record in anyone's book.
 
In addition to the factory cars built by McLaren, they contracted out and also produced almost identical chassis for other drivers as well as selling "Last years model" to the competition. This model comes with decals for the car driven by German Immigrant and avid McLaren fan, Lothar Motschenbacher in 1970. The kit is identical to the 1969 bright orange factory cars driven by McLaren and Hulme with the high wing. But in late 1969 most of motor racing, including Can Am, that at that time had relatively few rules, outlawed the high wing as well as the adjustable wing both innovated by Jim Hall on his Chaparral 2E and 2F cars in 1966 and 67 and  pretty much copied by everyone until outlawed. Bruce McLaren avidly avoided the wing concept until the advent of the M8B in 1969.
 
The only problem with doing the Motschenbacher livery with a M8B is that I can find no evidence that he ever drove a McLaren configured like the kit. In 1968 he drove a McLaren M6B and in 1969 a McLaren M12, both without wings. In 1970 he did switch to the M8B, but it appears that the car he bought was a converted M8B that was the #2 1969 McLaren factory car that had been converted from one of the 1968 factory M8A cars! So in fact was an updated 1968 M8A. In addition, when raced by factory McLaren in 1969 it had the high wing just as in the kit. But in 1970, when owned by Motschenbacher these wings were outlawed so he lowered his wing down to where the lead edge almost touched the rear fenders. It appears that unlike the M8D Factory cars of 1970, he kept the strut mountings, just shortened. The M8Ds of 1970 had a fins added to the rear fenders to hold the wing, also low to the body.

 
As a side note the testing of the M8D was what killed Bruce McLaren in an accident that was almost as unnecessary as the crash in 1966 that killed Ken Miles while testing the piece of junk Ford J car. But that is another story.
 
I sent this #11 car to both Mike and Craig, as I had WAY TO MANY in my stash and I truly wanted to see what talented builders could do with them. They are highly detailed kits but a struggle to build if done out of the box. I kept my factory decaled M8B as well as another kit that is in a plastic zip lock bag that may or may not be complete. I always thought it would make a good M8A or D or possibly even an F from that kit. But at the rate I am doing any building at all mixed with everything seeming to either break or fall apart on my body in the last couple of years I am beginning to wonder if this is the only way I will ever get to see some of my favorite models built.
 
For those who don't know much about the Can Am series of the sixties and early seventies it was pretty much a no holds bared cowboy kind of racing that as a side note was VERY lucrative for the racers. Winning a Can Am race could bring $60 to $80.000 to the winner, PER RACE! Placing second place in a Can Am race usually paid better than winning in many of the longer European sports car races. Eventually Most of the drivers and teams went over to NASCAR racing when Can Am finally somewhat regulated itself out of existence. Here is a bit of footage to give some of the feel a Can Am race produced:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXjZYIzKGCM
 
I'm REALLY looking forward to this build.