Jaager
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Jaager got a reaction from allanyed in Newbie here- Flattening the planks?
I would use a filler at the stem and paint the hull.
or
remove the planking and buy a replacement from a site vendor or visit your local WoodCraft store and get a veneer that is better - sawn not rotary cut if possible.
Veneer just needs a steel straight edge and a keenly sharp knife. Strop often.
The color of the planking is way darker than any species that I believe was used for an actual ship.
To my eye, it looks brittle, course, open pore. - not even close to a 1:75 scaled down version of real wood that was used.
A Wayback machine view of this:
Taper the stem to about half its thickness at the outer char.
Cut a rabbet - a proper rabbet = the correct width in the stem. Small chisel. Practice a lot on scrap first.
Start the planking at the rabbet and add bonding as it fits aft.
Apply the same plank P&S - not all one side and then the other.
Planking width 6" -8" in scale with the the garboard maybe a bit wider.
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Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Newbie here- Flattening the planks?
I would use a filler at the stem and paint the hull.
or
remove the planking and buy a replacement from a site vendor or visit your local WoodCraft store and get a veneer that is better - sawn not rotary cut if possible.
Veneer just needs a steel straight edge and a keenly sharp knife. Strop often.
The color of the planking is way darker than any species that I believe was used for an actual ship.
To my eye, it looks brittle, course, open pore. - not even close to a 1:75 scaled down version of real wood that was used.
A Wayback machine view of this:
Taper the stem to about half its thickness at the outer char.
Cut a rabbet - a proper rabbet = the correct width in the stem. Small chisel. Practice a lot on scrap first.
Start the planking at the rabbet and add bonding as it fits aft.
Apply the same plank P&S - not all one side and then the other.
Planking width 6" -8" in scale with the the garboard maybe a bit wider.
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Jaager got a reaction from Bob Cleek in Newbie here- Flattening the planks?
I would use a filler at the stem and paint the hull.
or
remove the planking and buy a replacement from a site vendor or visit your local WoodCraft store and get a veneer that is better - sawn not rotary cut if possible.
Veneer just needs a steel straight edge and a keenly sharp knife. Strop often.
The color of the planking is way darker than any species that I believe was used for an actual ship.
To my eye, it looks brittle, course, open pore. - not even close to a 1:75 scaled down version of real wood that was used.
A Wayback machine view of this:
Taper the stem to about half its thickness at the outer char.
Cut a rabbet - a proper rabbet = the correct width in the stem. Small chisel. Practice a lot on scrap first.
Start the planking at the rabbet and add bonding as it fits aft.
Apply the same plank P&S - not all one side and then the other.
Planking width 6" -8" in scale with the the garboard maybe a bit wider.
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Jaager got a reaction from Chikpeas in Newbie here- Flattening the planks?
I would use a filler at the stem and paint the hull.
or
remove the planking and buy a replacement from a site vendor or visit your local WoodCraft store and get a veneer that is better - sawn not rotary cut if possible.
Veneer just needs a steel straight edge and a keenly sharp knife. Strop often.
The color of the planking is way darker than any species that I believe was used for an actual ship.
To my eye, it looks brittle, course, open pore. - not even close to a 1:75 scaled down version of real wood that was used.
A Wayback machine view of this:
Taper the stem to about half its thickness at the outer char.
Cut a rabbet - a proper rabbet = the correct width in the stem. Small chisel. Practice a lot on scrap first.
Start the planking at the rabbet and add bonding as it fits aft.
Apply the same plank P&S - not all one side and then the other.
Planking width 6" -8" in scale with the the garboard maybe a bit wider.
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Jaager reacted to Keith Black in Hello from Leicester, England
Nic, first off, welcome to MSW.
As you're not a modeler my suggestion is to leave it as is unless you're willing to spend the next 5 to 7 years gaining the necessary skills to undertake completing your grandfather's model. Though incomplete, it's a beautiful model as is and it would be a shame to sell it and have it leave the family. In our throwaway society of today very little from the lives of our deceased family members gets passed down.
Now, if you've got the itch to start model ship building, please speak up and you'll be directed on which first builds you should attempt and what tools you'll need to start with. Wood ship modeling is a deep deep rabbit hole and it takes years of commitment to reach a point where one starts to think they're finally getting it. I'm not trying to put you off by any means, I'm merely trying to share with you the reality of the situation. Don't be fooled by the little devil sitting on your shoulder whispering, "how hard can it be".
Whatever direction you go, the very best to you. Glad to have you aboard.
Keith
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Jaager got a reaction from allanyed in Drawing center lines
This is the old style marking gauge:
Replace the steel scribing point with a section of a 2mm HB mechanical pencil lead
Using scrap wood stock and a chisel a miniature version is easy to fabricate.
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Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Warship identified off Florida coast 3 centuries after it sank
The War of Jenkins Ear.
The bureaucracy managing this war for England were incompetent amateurs.
Really a lazy effort on the part of the scribbler. Obviously zero understanding.
HMS Tiger 1722 was old and obsolete - it was actually a pre 1719 Establishments design.
Definitely NOT a frigate. In that era, even a 40 gun would not have been a frigate. With two full gun decks, they were slow slugs that were definitely top heavy. Often not able to use the guns on their main gun deck, because much wave action would flood thru the open ports.
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Jaager got a reaction from MCan in Ultimation tools
Might this tool help with getting a uniform thickness?
https://bridgecitytools.com/products/hp-8-mini-block-plane
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Jaager got a reaction from tlevine in Warship identified off Florida coast 3 centuries after it sank
The War of Jenkins Ear.
The bureaucracy managing this war for England were incompetent amateurs.
Really a lazy effort on the part of the scribbler. Obviously zero understanding.
HMS Tiger 1722 was old and obsolete - it was actually a pre 1719 Establishments design.
Definitely NOT a frigate. In that era, even a 40 gun would not have been a frigate. With two full gun decks, they were slow slugs that were definitely top heavy. Often not able to use the guns on their main gun deck, because much wave action would flood thru the open ports.
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Jaager got a reaction from Gregory in Warship identified off Florida coast 3 centuries after it sank
The War of Jenkins Ear.
The bureaucracy managing this war for England were incompetent amateurs.
Really a lazy effort on the part of the scribbler. Obviously zero understanding.
HMS Tiger 1722 was old and obsolete - it was actually a pre 1719 Establishments design.
Definitely NOT a frigate. In that era, even a 40 gun would not have been a frigate. With two full gun decks, they were slow slugs that were definitely top heavy. Often not able to use the guns on their main gun deck, because much wave action would flood thru the open ports.
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Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Warship identified off Florida coast 3 centuries after it sank
The War of Jenkins Ear.
The bureaucracy managing this war for England were incompetent amateurs.
Really a lazy effort on the part of the scribbler. Obviously zero understanding.
HMS Tiger 1722 was old and obsolete - it was actually a pre 1719 Establishments design.
Definitely NOT a frigate. In that era, even a 40 gun would not have been a frigate. With two full gun decks, they were slow slugs that were definitely top heavy. Often not able to use the guns on their main gun deck, because much wave action would flood thru the open ports.
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Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Ultimation tools
Might this tool help with getting a uniform thickness?
https://bridgecitytools.com/products/hp-8-mini-block-plane
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Jaager got a reaction from Rik Thistle in Ultimation tools
Might this tool help with getting a uniform thickness?
https://bridgecitytools.com/products/hp-8-mini-block-plane
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Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Unknown Table Saw
It is a Jarmac. The ID label has been removed. It was made in a one-man shop in Springfield, IL. When the owner died, his shop died with him.
It filled the small table saw niche during the time between the loss of the Unimat with its saw attachment and the JIM saw. The motor is probably a repurposed sewing machine motor - no power. It sorta worked with stock that was essentially veneer thickness.
The fence was a welded bar - low - no adjustment. Simple miter gauge. Two tracks - so a home made sliding table worked for it.
If you make a sliding table - about a full afternoon's time expense - it will be machine that fills the crosscut function that the recent chopper saw thread was all about.
Note that the blade is a slotting blade - too many teeth for anything more than thick veneer.
The companies that made reasonably priced blades that fit - Thurston and Martindale - no longer do.
I think that there was a similarly T-ball league disc sander in the Jarmac line. Not really good, frustrating, but better than nothing if it was the only thing available.
In my imagination, I can see this machine as a negative example for Jim.
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Jaager got a reaction from DaveBaxt in Stairs on the hull planking and on the wale
The last picture = is likely a first rate or ship expected to be a flagship. The change is at an entry "door". Only the "plebs" would be using the steps above the door. There is even a wider step at the level of the upper gun deck for those who use the gun port at that level instead of climbing to the rail.
The steps for the fat old men (flag oficiers) are wider and more uniform.
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Jaager got a reaction from DaveBaxt in Stairs on the hull planking and on the wale
Building codes specify stairs have specific height and depth ratios - I think our brains quickly adapt to and expect a rhythm when climbing a manufactured apparatus. The "bulge" at a wale would be easier to adapt to than a difference in step depth or distance between steps. Since most vessels had significant tumble home, the body contact with the higher steps would signal where a foot should go.
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Jaager got a reaction from dvm27 in HMS Portland 1770 by scrubbyj427 - 1:48 - 4th rate 50-gun ship
Rather than the vertical under the counter supports, why not mimic the original and use horizontal instead?
I would worry that vertical may not fit well with the run of the planking. The upper part of the planking will run in almost the same axis.
You could have flat filler pieces between the pseudo transoms with holes for dowels into the last mold. This would make a precise locator for each filler (reverse mortise) for almost idiot proof slots for the transoms. You could include a few Bamboo skewers as the dowels and burn holes that are their diameter.
If you doubled up on each transom (two pieces instead of one in each slot) the planking would have a firm support. The planking will have serious bending and a firm base will have a better grab.
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Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Unknown Table Saw
It is a Jarmac. The ID label has been removed. It was made in a one-man shop in Springfield, IL. When the owner died, his shop died with him.
It filled the small table saw niche during the time between the loss of the Unimat with its saw attachment and the JIM saw. The motor is probably a repurposed sewing machine motor - no power. It sorta worked with stock that was essentially veneer thickness.
The fence was a welded bar - low - no adjustment. Simple miter gauge. Two tracks - so a home made sliding table worked for it.
If you make a sliding table - about a full afternoon's time expense - it will be machine that fills the crosscut function that the recent chopper saw thread was all about.
Note that the blade is a slotting blade - too many teeth for anything more than thick veneer.
The companies that made reasonably priced blades that fit - Thurston and Martindale - no longer do.
I think that there was a similarly T-ball league disc sander in the Jarmac line. Not really good, frustrating, but better than nothing if it was the only thing available.
In my imagination, I can see this machine as a negative example for Jim.
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Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in General Build - Keel/Stem Advice
Along with my premise that plastic may be a hindrance as an introduction to wooden ship model kits because of the difference in now the instructions relate (or how the older wooden kit instructions did). Unrealistic expectations because of the many different skills beyond just assembly and and that most of them are common to just about every kit. This gets repetitive and and excessive to do for every kit when there are "how to" books that do this.
Looking at the above, I have another premise. A plastic kit is straight forward assembly. Additional knowledge about the anatomy and physiology of the object being assembled is not necessary. For a wooden ship model, it is important to have at least a basic knowledge of the individual parts and how they fit together. Knowing the proper names allows for an easier look up or inquiry about what is going on.
Knowing what a proper keel, keel rabbet, stem, stem rabbet, hawse timbers (the first planking layer has to cover the purpose of the hawse timbers) the proper run of planking,
would help with this specific problem. Faking it is not likely to yield a satisfactory product.
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Jaager reacted to druxey in Unknown Table Saw
Jaager: Your reference to the Unimat saw attachment made me smile. Back in 1970 that was the only way I could cut plank and other stock. A lot of hit and miss with any cut depths or widths! And the dust everywhere....
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Jaager got a reaction from Ryland Craze in Unknown Table Saw
It is a Jarmac. The ID label has been removed. It was made in a one-man shop in Springfield, IL. When the owner died, his shop died with him.
It filled the small table saw niche during the time between the loss of the Unimat with its saw attachment and the JIM saw. The motor is probably a repurposed sewing machine motor - no power. It sorta worked with stock that was essentially veneer thickness.
The fence was a welded bar - low - no adjustment. Simple miter gauge. Two tracks - so a home made sliding table worked for it.
If you make a sliding table - about a full afternoon's time expense - it will be machine that fills the crosscut function that the recent chopper saw thread was all about.
Note that the blade is a slotting blade - too many teeth for anything more than thick veneer.
The companies that made reasonably priced blades that fit - Thurston and Martindale - no longer do.
I think that there was a similarly T-ball league disc sander in the Jarmac line. Not really good, frustrating, but better than nothing if it was the only thing available.
In my imagination, I can see this machine as a negative example for Jim.
-
Jaager got a reaction from davec in Unknown Table Saw
It is a Jarmac. The ID label has been removed. It was made in a one-man shop in Springfield, IL. When the owner died, his shop died with him.
It filled the small table saw niche during the time between the loss of the Unimat with its saw attachment and the JIM saw. The motor is probably a repurposed sewing machine motor - no power. It sorta worked with stock that was essentially veneer thickness.
The fence was a welded bar - low - no adjustment. Simple miter gauge. Two tracks - so a home made sliding table worked for it.
If you make a sliding table - about a full afternoon's time expense - it will be machine that fills the crosscut function that the recent chopper saw thread was all about.
Note that the blade is a slotting blade - too many teeth for anything more than thick veneer.
The companies that made reasonably priced blades that fit - Thurston and Martindale - no longer do.
I think that there was a similarly T-ball league disc sander in the Jarmac line. Not really good, frustrating, but better than nothing if it was the only thing available.
In my imagination, I can see this machine as a negative example for Jim.
-
Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in HMS Portland 1770 by scrubbyj427 - 1:48 - 4th rate 50-gun ship
Rather than the vertical under the counter supports, why not mimic the original and use horizontal instead?
I would worry that vertical may not fit well with the run of the planking. The upper part of the planking will run in almost the same axis.
You could have flat filler pieces between the pseudo transoms with holes for dowels into the last mold. This would make a precise locator for each filler (reverse mortise) for almost idiot proof slots for the transoms. You could include a few Bamboo skewers as the dowels and burn holes that are their diameter.
If you doubled up on each transom (two pieces instead of one in each slot) the planking would have a firm support. The planking will have serious bending and a firm base will have a better grab.
-
Jaager got a reaction from druxey in Unknown Table Saw
It is a Jarmac. The ID label has been removed. It was made in a one-man shop in Springfield, IL. When the owner died, his shop died with him.
It filled the small table saw niche during the time between the loss of the Unimat with its saw attachment and the JIM saw. The motor is probably a repurposed sewing machine motor - no power. It sorta worked with stock that was essentially veneer thickness.
The fence was a welded bar - low - no adjustment. Simple miter gauge. Two tracks - so a home made sliding table worked for it.
If you make a sliding table - about a full afternoon's time expense - it will be machine that fills the crosscut function that the recent chopper saw thread was all about.
Note that the blade is a slotting blade - too many teeth for anything more than thick veneer.
The companies that made reasonably priced blades that fit - Thurston and Martindale - no longer do.
I think that there was a similarly T-ball league disc sander in the Jarmac line. Not really good, frustrating, but better than nothing if it was the only thing available.
In my imagination, I can see this machine as a negative example for Jim.
-
Jaager got a reaction from allanyed in General Build - Keel/Stem Advice
Along with my premise that plastic may be a hindrance as an introduction to wooden ship model kits because of the difference in now the instructions relate (or how the older wooden kit instructions did). Unrealistic expectations because of the many different skills beyond just assembly and and that most of them are common to just about every kit. This gets repetitive and and excessive to do for every kit when there are "how to" books that do this.
Looking at the above, I have another premise. A plastic kit is straight forward assembly. Additional knowledge about the anatomy and physiology of the object being assembled is not necessary. For a wooden ship model, it is important to have at least a basic knowledge of the individual parts and how they fit together. Knowing the proper names allows for an easier look up or inquiry about what is going on.
Knowing what a proper keel, keel rabbet, stem, stem rabbet, hawse timbers (the first planking layer has to cover the purpose of the hawse timbers) the proper run of planking,
would help with this specific problem. Faking it is not likely to yield a satisfactory product.
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