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Jaager

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  1. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Moab in A small cog c. 1410 by Brinkman - FINISHED - scale 1:20   
    Silverman,
     
    Three thoughts:
     
    Your choice of wood:  Fir (the English seem to interchange Fir as a name for what is Pine here, but regardless, similar characteristics for this use.)
    Using a softwood species for frames, planks, beams, chocks, ...   you are making this a more difficult, frustrating, less elegant process than it could be.
    Guys a lot closer to you than to me, seem to have ready access to all the Pear they need.   You would probably really like how it looks and works a lot more than Fir.
    If you want a lighter color,  there is Maple - in your case -  Common Name(s): Sycamore maple, European sycamore  Scientific Name: Acer pseudoplatanus
     
    The planking -  The usual nature of lapstrake/clinker planking  is flush - in a gradual transition - only at the ends.  Are you certain that the middle is flush?
     
    Frame first -  Have you considered making a plug/inside the planking mould?  Planking over that?  Adding the frames to the inside of the hull?
     
    I will be subjected to stoning,  but if a Byrnes draw plate costs more than is in your comfort zone ( I own one, so it is not about quality)  drill gauges can do the job.
    Here, wire gauge drills,  there are two   necessary  #80 to #61   and # 60 to ~1/4" not sure - but only the #50's really matter.
    Bamboo skewers can make strong trunnels.  The species of Bamboo used can make a big difference in how easy it goes. 
    hard strong holds together needs a lot of force
    hard brittle fights you all the way low vield
    soft holds together peels off with less work - do not hammer -push
    soft splits easily crushes  not worth the effort
    This may require visiting different vendors  -  if you have a local independent Chinese grocery store - there may be several types available as well as Bamboo chopsticks
    Gripping the bloody things - to pull them thru - without crushing - a constant challenge.
     
  2. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in reconstituting dried acrylic paint   
    John,
     
    I have zero experience acrylic paint, but I think there are two major classes of color coatings:  paint and washes.
    A wash - pigment in a solvent.  The wash applied, the solvent evaporates, the pigment just sits on the surface.  A dried up can of wash just needs more solvent to reconstitute it.
    An applied pigment has nothing to hold it on the surface if exposed to external forces - rain,  splash, abrassion,...
    A paint is pigment, a binder, and a solvent.   Paint applied,  the solvent evaporates,  the binder undergoes a chemical reaction as exposure to Oxygen increases.  A larger, more complex polymer is formed.  It sticks to the surface and keeps the pigment in place.
     
     
    I think that dried acrylic has a different chemistry.  You may be able to mechanically shatter the plastic of the polymerized binder, but it will not work as a binder when this new gemisch is applied as a paint, even if you can make the mess into small enough bits to suspend in the solvent.  It is now a wash.
     
    Another factor,  pigments have interesting chemical names,  cadmium, titanium,  heavy metal type elements.  Not really healthy to breathe.  Thinking about it, it probably a good idea to wear a mask or work in a hood when sanding dried paint.
     
    If you are paid a reasonable wage,  the time spent recovering the dried mess,  even if it were not a fruitless exercise, is likely more costly than new paint.
  3. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from EricWilliamMarshall in The Shellback's Library A cautionary tale or a search for a productive contact for this vendor   
    I just got an email.   It was the Covid shutdown.
     
    The message:
    GOOD NEWS! The city-ordered shut-down is over. We are able to get back to printing and binding our book orders. When the city shut us down as a non-essential business in the Covid 19 Pandemic we had just begun to outfit our new space with updated machinery and work spaces. That came to a sudden halt and we were forced to rely on our kitchen counter to produce our boat building and design booklets. These conditions are obviously ;not practical for printing and binding hard-cover books. However, at the end of July we were able to re-enter the space and yesterday we started up the book production side of our business once again. It will take a little while to get up to speed but we are now producing books to fulfill the backlog that has resulted from the closure.

    We are happy to confirm that your order will be completed in the order in which it was received. Many thanks indeed for your patience and understanding.
     
    Now, I have to see if I can do a re-order since I got a refund from PayPal.   A charge back from a credit card company is costly for a vendor and it tends to ....annoy... them.
  4. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in old dog / new tricks   
    Hello, Yankee Virginian.  I had an apartment at Telegraph Hill, when I was USPHS stationed at St, E's 
     
    A large clipper is a steep slope to climb.  The composite iron and wood - very late sailing era clippers - add another layer of complexity in the masting and rigging over the earlier types:  iron spars, wire standing rigging, chain involved with running rigging.
    It would probably serve you to read this post =  For Beginners -- A Cautionary Tale   
    it is just above this post in this forum.
  5. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Moab in A small cog c. 1410 by Brinkman - FINISHED - scale 1:20   
    The description in the thesis is clear as mud to me.  It does not read as though it was written by someone who understands hull construction.
    You could correspond with him and further define just what he means by:
    "lay flush"  
    "were not fastened to one another" - as opposed to?
    "stakes overlapped"  a picture of what exactly he means
    "the central......garboard....not connected to it."   apart from Med very ancient blind mortise and tenon plank to plank - the attachment is plank to internal structure - the between is for waterproofing material
    "the bottom and bilge strakes..."   is he describing carvel planking where the planks would grind in a beach?  There was a time of transition from clinker to carvel - but I imagined it was between strakes and not within one.  The hull having a carvel planked bottom and lapstrake sides up to the rail. 
     
    About the plug.   The trick is to fix each plank to its final curve before it is attached.  Pre-bent as it were.  This way, they stay were you fixed them.
     
    Plank bending 101
    The lignin that holds wood fibers together is not soluble in water. 
    Heat loosens its bond and allows for bending while hot and staying in its new position when back to room temp.
    Steam transfers heat better than dry air . Wetting wood before bending is to provide steam.  The time of immersion need not be long.
    Different species of wood have very different reactions to being bent.  Some are pliable and some would rather break.
    Lignin is soluble in ammonia.   But it is the anhydrous ammonia that was used for commercial refrigeration and is liable to explode.  The active part of cleaning ammonia solution as far as bending is the water that it is in.  The ammonia there just ruins the surface of the wood and makes it an ugly color.
    There are many ways to provide the heat.  The trick is to choose a way the does not cook you in the process.  Does not char the wood.  Does not dent the wood while bending it.
     
    Your homemade draw plate = 
    to cut/shave the wood,  hard steel = good. 
    stoning and honing a crisp cutting edge at the hole and holding it  hard steel = good
    drilling the hole to begin with  hard steel = not so easy
     
    For draw plate trunnels - bamboo is pretty much it  getting something to draw from wood is too much work and too much is wasted.
    For short - just for show trunnels  you can find examples here of   steel medical needles --  tip ground to be like a lab cork borer -  drill press - stock is a block of wood and boring it on an end grain face.   
    If you drill thru the block, the trunnel is longer, but stays in the bore.  I do not know if boring the next open will push the earlier one up the bore of the needle or just stop the process.  If it moves on up, I guess the quill center could fill with trunnels.  If it does not move, pulling the needle , and ramming the trunnel out for each one would get tedious real fast.  
    The other way is to bore part way and when as many as can be got are bored, the distant end is cut off at the intersection at the depth of cut.
  6. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in A small cog c. 1410 by Brinkman - FINISHED - scale 1:20   
    Silverman,
     
    Three thoughts:
     
    Your choice of wood:  Fir (the English seem to interchange Fir as a name for what is Pine here, but regardless, similar characteristics for this use.)
    Using a softwood species for frames, planks, beams, chocks, ...   you are making this a more difficult, frustrating, less elegant process than it could be.
    Guys a lot closer to you than to me, seem to have ready access to all the Pear they need.   You would probably really like how it looks and works a lot more than Fir.
    If you want a lighter color,  there is Maple - in your case -  Common Name(s): Sycamore maple, European sycamore  Scientific Name: Acer pseudoplatanus
     
    The planking -  The usual nature of lapstrake/clinker planking  is flush - in a gradual transition - only at the ends.  Are you certain that the middle is flush?
     
    Frame first -  Have you considered making a plug/inside the planking mould?  Planking over that?  Adding the frames to the inside of the hull?
     
    I will be subjected to stoning,  but if a Byrnes draw plate costs more than is in your comfort zone ( I own one, so it is not about quality)  drill gauges can do the job.
    Here, wire gauge drills,  there are two   necessary  #80 to #61   and # 60 to ~1/4" not sure - but only the #50's really matter.
    Bamboo skewers can make strong trunnels.  The species of Bamboo used can make a big difference in how easy it goes. 
    hard strong holds together needs a lot of force
    hard brittle fights you all the way low vield
    soft holds together peels off with less work - do not hammer -push
    soft splits easily crushes  not worth the effort
    This may require visiting different vendors  -  if you have a local independent Chinese grocery store - there may be several types available as well as Bamboo chopsticks
    Gripping the bloody things - to pull them thru - without crushing - a constant challenge.
     
  7. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in The Shellback's Library A cautionary tale or a search for a productive contact for this vendor   
    I just got an email.   It was the Covid shutdown.
     
    The message:
    GOOD NEWS! The city-ordered shut-down is over. We are able to get back to printing and binding our book orders. When the city shut us down as a non-essential business in the Covid 19 Pandemic we had just begun to outfit our new space with updated machinery and work spaces. That came to a sudden halt and we were forced to rely on our kitchen counter to produce our boat building and design booklets. These conditions are obviously ;not practical for printing and binding hard-cover books. However, at the end of July we were able to re-enter the space and yesterday we started up the book production side of our business once again. It will take a little while to get up to speed but we are now producing books to fulfill the backlog that has resulted from the closure.

    We are happy to confirm that your order will be completed in the order in which it was received. Many thanks indeed for your patience and understanding.
     
    Now, I have to see if I can do a re-order since I got a refund from PayPal.   A charge back from a credit card company is costly for a vendor and it tends to ....annoy... them.
  8. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Keith Black in A small cog c. 1410 by Brinkman - FINISHED - scale 1:20   
    Silverman,
     
    Three thoughts:
     
    Your choice of wood:  Fir (the English seem to interchange Fir as a name for what is Pine here, but regardless, similar characteristics for this use.)
    Using a softwood species for frames, planks, beams, chocks, ...   you are making this a more difficult, frustrating, less elegant process than it could be.
    Guys a lot closer to you than to me, seem to have ready access to all the Pear they need.   You would probably really like how it looks and works a lot more than Fir.
    If you want a lighter color,  there is Maple - in your case -  Common Name(s): Sycamore maple, European sycamore  Scientific Name: Acer pseudoplatanus
     
    The planking -  The usual nature of lapstrake/clinker planking  is flush - in a gradual transition - only at the ends.  Are you certain that the middle is flush?
     
    Frame first -  Have you considered making a plug/inside the planking mould?  Planking over that?  Adding the frames to the inside of the hull?
     
    I will be subjected to stoning,  but if a Byrnes draw plate costs more than is in your comfort zone ( I own one, so it is not about quality)  drill gauges can do the job.
    Here, wire gauge drills,  there are two   necessary  #80 to #61   and # 60 to ~1/4" not sure - but only the #50's really matter.
    Bamboo skewers can make strong trunnels.  The species of Bamboo used can make a big difference in how easy it goes. 
    hard strong holds together needs a lot of force
    hard brittle fights you all the way low vield
    soft holds together peels off with less work - do not hammer -push
    soft splits easily crushes  not worth the effort
    This may require visiting different vendors  -  if you have a local independent Chinese grocery store - there may be several types available as well as Bamboo chopsticks
    Gripping the bloody things - to pull them thru - without crushing - a constant challenge.
     
  9. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from RichardG in The Shellback's Library A cautionary tale or a search for a productive contact for this vendor   
    I just got an email.   It was the Covid shutdown.
     
    The message:
    GOOD NEWS! The city-ordered shut-down is over. We are able to get back to printing and binding our book orders. When the city shut us down as a non-essential business in the Covid 19 Pandemic we had just begun to outfit our new space with updated machinery and work spaces. That came to a sudden halt and we were forced to rely on our kitchen counter to produce our boat building and design booklets. These conditions are obviously ;not practical for printing and binding hard-cover books. However, at the end of July we were able to re-enter the space and yesterday we started up the book production side of our business once again. It will take a little while to get up to speed but we are now producing books to fulfill the backlog that has resulted from the closure.

    We are happy to confirm that your order will be completed in the order in which it was received. Many thanks indeed for your patience and understanding.
     
    Now, I have to see if I can do a re-order since I got a refund from PayPal.   A charge back from a credit card company is costly for a vendor and it tends to ....annoy... them.
  10. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in reconstituting dried acrylic paint   
    John,
     
    I have zero experience acrylic paint, but I think there are two major classes of color coatings:  paint and washes.
    A wash - pigment in a solvent.  The wash applied, the solvent evaporates, the pigment just sits on the surface.  A dried up can of wash just needs more solvent to reconstitute it.
    An applied pigment has nothing to hold it on the surface if exposed to external forces - rain,  splash, abrassion,...
    A paint is pigment, a binder, and a solvent.   Paint applied,  the solvent evaporates,  the binder undergoes a chemical reaction as exposure to Oxygen increases.  A larger, more complex polymer is formed.  It sticks to the surface and keeps the pigment in place.
     
     
    I think that dried acrylic has a different chemistry.  You may be able to mechanically shatter the plastic of the polymerized binder, but it will not work as a binder when this new gemisch is applied as a paint, even if you can make the mess into small enough bits to suspend in the solvent.  It is now a wash.
     
    Another factor,  pigments have interesting chemical names,  cadmium, titanium,  heavy metal type elements.  Not really healthy to breathe.  Thinking about it, it probably a good idea to wear a mask or work in a hood when sanding dried paint.
     
    If you are paid a reasonable wage,  the time spent recovering the dried mess,  even if it were not a fruitless exercise, is likely more costly than new paint.
  11. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from druxey in reconstituting dried acrylic paint   
    John,
     
    I have zero experience acrylic paint, but I think there are two major classes of color coatings:  paint and washes.
    A wash - pigment in a solvent.  The wash applied, the solvent evaporates, the pigment just sits on the surface.  A dried up can of wash just needs more solvent to reconstitute it.
    An applied pigment has nothing to hold it on the surface if exposed to external forces - rain,  splash, abrassion,...
    A paint is pigment, a binder, and a solvent.   Paint applied,  the solvent evaporates,  the binder undergoes a chemical reaction as exposure to Oxygen increases.  A larger, more complex polymer is formed.  It sticks to the surface and keeps the pigment in place.
     
     
    I think that dried acrylic has a different chemistry.  You may be able to mechanically shatter the plastic of the polymerized binder, but it will not work as a binder when this new gemisch is applied as a paint, even if you can make the mess into small enough bits to suspend in the solvent.  It is now a wash.
     
    Another factor,  pigments have interesting chemical names,  cadmium, titanium,  heavy metal type elements.  Not really healthy to breathe.  Thinking about it, it probably a good idea to wear a mask or work in a hood when sanding dried paint.
     
    If you are paid a reasonable wage,  the time spent recovering the dried mess,  even if it were not a fruitless exercise, is likely more costly than new paint.
  12. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Bucktool   
    A cutoff of a 2x12 makes for a good base.  Both Lowes and Home Depot, list - price not absure - HD will cut - avoid treated lumber.  The samples of Armstrong lino flooring -  maybe two layers at each bolt as a washer/ pad  vibration insurance.
  13. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Ryland Craze in Byrnes Sander or saw, that is the Question?   
    To anticipate the next question
    accessories:
    Unless you have a specific need for beveled planks,  the tilting table  will probably have the least use vs expenditure value.
    You can make do with either a metric or standard stop.   Wonderful would be a digital readout  like my caliper - fraction/digital/metric - fine marks and age rigid lenses make for a hard of seeing situation.
    The sliding table is elegant.  A homemade version that performs the function is not difficult to make, but this one is well made and the specs are in excess of our needs.  For short piece cutting, a homemade version with a short table on one side would save having to remove the fence.
    Jim has custom fabricated an oversized table for some members here.  He needs the body to fit it,  so if you work really oversized stock,  this may be an option to discuss when an order is placed.
    Most of the rest are not expensive and are generally of the better to have and not need category.
    One blade company that we use has gone away recently, so for blades, more variety is better and a backup for the ones that are really used a lot.  This works if CYA is your way. 
    The key concept for blades is that the number of teeth on the blade appropriate to use is inversely proportional to the thickness of the stock being cut.
  14. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Ryland Craze in Want to build a Victory   
    In the spirit of a wink and dry humor:
     
    Challenge?  if you want a real challenge:    ANCRE -  monograph for St. Philippe  -  scratch build @ 1:48.  There probably won't be much competition in the number of copies. 
    A factor with HMS Victory is the really large number of copies,  although,  the number started and abandoned is probably at least 2 magnitudes higher than the number completed.
    Less daunting in decoration but without a peer for beauty  - another 1st rate - a contemporary of Victory - also an ANCRE monograph is La Commerce de Marseille.
     
    Any first rate is a momentous challenge.   Done well, it is a magnum opus.  At a scale where you have a lot of detail,  Furniture will have to be given up to have room to display it.
  15. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from allanyed in Bucktool   
    A cutoff of a 2x12 makes for a good base.  Both Lowes and Home Depot, list - price not absure - HD will cut - avoid treated lumber.  The samples of Armstrong lino flooring -  maybe two layers at each bolt as a washer/ pad  vibration insurance.
  16. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from allanyed in Want to build a Victory   
    In the spirit of a wink and dry humor:
     
    Challenge?  if you want a real challenge:    ANCRE -  monograph for St. Philippe  -  scratch build @ 1:48.  There probably won't be much competition in the number of copies. 
    A factor with HMS Victory is the really large number of copies,  although,  the number started and abandoned is probably at least 2 magnitudes higher than the number completed.
    Less daunting in decoration but without a peer for beauty  - another 1st rate - a contemporary of Victory - also an ANCRE monograph is La Commerce de Marseille.
     
    Any first rate is a momentous challenge.   Done well, it is a magnum opus.  At a scale where you have a lot of detail,  Furniture will have to be given up to have room to display it.
  17. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Matrim in Material for keel   
    Mike,
    I am without doubt obsessed with the method and this vessel is far more recent than my eras of focus.  If your plans include a complete Body plan with delineation of each of the stations shown above, The Station Sandwich Method would get you a hull. 
    How I would approach it =
    I would use clear Pine sliced from framing 2x4.  No thicker than 1/4" ,  but it is easier and less open to mistakes if the sum of the thicknesses is an exact match to the distance between each station.
    The interior of the hull is not of much interest so a solid hull is possible.  I would still make it somewhat hollow.   The moulded dimension would be enough to encompass any bevel that is between each pair of station lines.  I would not shape the inside.  It would be horizontal above the floor and vertical at the sides.  It saves on lofting time.
    Rather than cutting each of the layers as a single piece,  I would use a rough version of wooden ship framing.  Do it at the first step as  a pair of layers with overlapping butts. 
    One of the pair would be three timbers - a full "floor" and a "2nd futtock" on each side that extended to the deck.
    The other would be four pieces -  two "1st futtock"s  that butt at the centerline and go beyond the floor/2nd futt join.  And two "3rd futtock"s that extend to the deck.
    The smaller pieces are easier to scroll cut.  there will be no cross grain.  The butt line of the "1st futt" provide an easy way to locate where the keel is.
    The  lofting process can be done easily using a drawing program.  The plans provide the precise outside shape.  Connect the dot straight lines define the inside shape.
    Each piece has a pattern rubber cemented to it.  When the layers between two stations are all glued together, the pattern is left on the "frame" at each end.   Because of the locators. the patterns on each end are in precise alignment.  The bevel will be correct.
     
    Locator points and the lofting of them:
    On a wooden hull sailing ship, where the inside shape is important and relatively narrow,  a perpendicular locator to position two frames, much less the series of them between two stations,  will not go thru the actual body of more than one frame.  This starts to happen when you get much beyond the middle of a ship.  I solved this by placing my locators outside the actual frame.  It makes for extra wood for each timber and for more wood to remove when getting the final shape for each frame sandwich assembly.
    This is not a factor with your hull. The thickness of each frame sandwich would be wide enough that an inside perpendicular would work as a locator.
    You would need 3 sets of locators.
    1 - to align the timbers of each pair.
    2 - to align each of the pairs into the sandwich of layers between two stations
    3 - to mate the two sandwiches that meet at each station.
    For  #1  I would use  the 1.75" long steel quilters pins  they are #73 wire gauge and #70 hole is close without being difficult to remove after the glue has set.
    For #2 and #3  I would use off the shelf bamboo skewers.  Measure the gauge and buy a few bits that are close enough not to wobble, are a push fit,  but no not need a hammer.
    Glue in the bamboo.
     
    The assembly method would be 
    scroll cut the timbers  -  no need to get too close to the pattern line -   A good hand fretsaw would get your there,  a scroll saw if you have one,  I use an 1/8" blade with a Carter Stabilizer on a 9" benchtop bandsaw.
    Join and glue up the "frame" pairs. 
    Assemble and glue up all of the pairs in a station sandwich.
    Using a sanding drum, shape the near outside shape and do the bevel for the sandwich.
    Join pairs of sandwiches and fine tune the transition by sanding.
    Starting from the middle and going to each end,  join the pairs of sandwiches to the whole and fare those transitions.
    The bow and stern build and shaping are a different challenge.  I would use a buttock dimension series of layers there.
     
    Pine is relatively inexpensive and readily available.  It is easy to work.
    Worse comes to worst, the hull can be the subject of a serious sealing and undercoating.  With a good final coat of paint, it should look metal.  If you wish the metal plates to be hinted at, rectangles of paper can be glued to the hull before sealing.  Things like bilge keels - parts needing to be glued to the hull - mask the glue area before sealing.
     
    Anyway,  here is an alternate method that breaks the hull shaping process into smaller and more manageable sub assemblies.    
     
     
     
  18. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Want to build a Victory   
    In the spirit of a wink and dry humor:
     
    Challenge?  if you want a real challenge:    ANCRE -  monograph for St. Philippe  -  scratch build @ 1:48.  There probably won't be much competition in the number of copies. 
    A factor with HMS Victory is the really large number of copies,  although,  the number started and abandoned is probably at least 2 magnitudes higher than the number completed.
    Less daunting in decoration but without a peer for beauty  - another 1st rate - a contemporary of Victory - also an ANCRE monograph is La Commerce de Marseille.
     
    Any first rate is a momentous challenge.   Done well, it is a magnum opus.  At a scale where you have a lot of detail,  Furniture will have to be given up to have room to display it.
  19. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mikegr in Material for keel   
    Mike,
    I am without doubt obsessed with the method and this vessel is far more recent than my eras of focus.  If your plans include a complete Body plan with delineation of each of the stations shown above, The Station Sandwich Method would get you a hull. 
    How I would approach it =
    I would use clear Pine sliced from framing 2x4.  No thicker than 1/4" ,  but it is easier and less open to mistakes if the sum of the thicknesses is an exact match to the distance between each station.
    The interior of the hull is not of much interest so a solid hull is possible.  I would still make it somewhat hollow.   The moulded dimension would be enough to encompass any bevel that is between each pair of station lines.  I would not shape the inside.  It would be horizontal above the floor and vertical at the sides.  It saves on lofting time.
    Rather than cutting each of the layers as a single piece,  I would use a rough version of wooden ship framing.  Do it at the first step as  a pair of layers with overlapping butts. 
    One of the pair would be three timbers - a full "floor" and a "2nd futtock" on each side that extended to the deck.
    The other would be four pieces -  two "1st futtock"s  that butt at the centerline and go beyond the floor/2nd futt join.  And two "3rd futtock"s that extend to the deck.
    The smaller pieces are easier to scroll cut.  there will be no cross grain.  The butt line of the "1st futt" provide an easy way to locate where the keel is.
    The  lofting process can be done easily using a drawing program.  The plans provide the precise outside shape.  Connect the dot straight lines define the inside shape.
    Each piece has a pattern rubber cemented to it.  When the layers between two stations are all glued together, the pattern is left on the "frame" at each end.   Because of the locators. the patterns on each end are in precise alignment.  The bevel will be correct.
     
    Locator points and the lofting of them:
    On a wooden hull sailing ship, where the inside shape is important and relatively narrow,  a perpendicular locator to position two frames, much less the series of them between two stations,  will not go thru the actual body of more than one frame.  This starts to happen when you get much beyond the middle of a ship.  I solved this by placing my locators outside the actual frame.  It makes for extra wood for each timber and for more wood to remove when getting the final shape for each frame sandwich assembly.
    This is not a factor with your hull. The thickness of each frame sandwich would be wide enough that an inside perpendicular would work as a locator.
    You would need 3 sets of locators.
    1 - to align the timbers of each pair.
    2 - to align each of the pairs into the sandwich of layers between two stations
    3 - to mate the two sandwiches that meet at each station.
    For  #1  I would use  the 1.75" long steel quilters pins  they are #73 wire gauge and #70 hole is close without being difficult to remove after the glue has set.
    For #2 and #3  I would use off the shelf bamboo skewers.  Measure the gauge and buy a few bits that are close enough not to wobble, are a push fit,  but no not need a hammer.
    Glue in the bamboo.
     
    The assembly method would be 
    scroll cut the timbers  -  no need to get too close to the pattern line -   A good hand fretsaw would get your there,  a scroll saw if you have one,  I use an 1/8" blade with a Carter Stabilizer on a 9" benchtop bandsaw.
    Join and glue up the "frame" pairs. 
    Assemble and glue up all of the pairs in a station sandwich.
    Using a sanding drum, shape the near outside shape and do the bevel for the sandwich.
    Join pairs of sandwiches and fine tune the transition by sanding.
    Starting from the middle and going to each end,  join the pairs of sandwiches to the whole and fare those transitions.
    The bow and stern build and shaping are a different challenge.  I would use a buttock dimension series of layers there.
     
    Pine is relatively inexpensive and readily available.  It is easy to work.
    Worse comes to worst, the hull can be the subject of a serious sealing and undercoating.  With a good final coat of paint, it should look metal.  If you wish the metal plates to be hinted at, rectangles of paper can be glued to the hull before sealing.  Things like bilge keels - parts needing to be glued to the hull - mask the glue area before sealing.
     
    Anyway,  here is an alternate method that breaks the hull shaping process into smaller and more manageable sub assemblies.    
     
     
     
  20. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Ryland Craze in Bucktool   
    A cutoff of a 2x12 makes for a good base.  Both Lowes and Home Depot, list - price not absure - HD will cut - avoid treated lumber.  The samples of Armstrong lino flooring -  maybe two layers at each bolt as a washer/ pad  vibration insurance.
  21. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Material for keel   
    Mike,
    I am without doubt obsessed with the method and this vessel is far more recent than my eras of focus.  If your plans include a complete Body plan with delineation of each of the stations shown above, The Station Sandwich Method would get you a hull. 
    How I would approach it =
    I would use clear Pine sliced from framing 2x4.  No thicker than 1/4" ,  but it is easier and less open to mistakes if the sum of the thicknesses is an exact match to the distance between each station.
    The interior of the hull is not of much interest so a solid hull is possible.  I would still make it somewhat hollow.   The moulded dimension would be enough to encompass any bevel that is between each pair of station lines.  I would not shape the inside.  It would be horizontal above the floor and vertical at the sides.  It saves on lofting time.
    Rather than cutting each of the layers as a single piece,  I would use a rough version of wooden ship framing.  Do it at the first step as  a pair of layers with overlapping butts. 
    One of the pair would be three timbers - a full "floor" and a "2nd futtock" on each side that extended to the deck.
    The other would be four pieces -  two "1st futtock"s  that butt at the centerline and go beyond the floor/2nd futt join.  And two "3rd futtock"s that extend to the deck.
    The smaller pieces are easier to scroll cut.  there will be no cross grain.  The butt line of the "1st futt" provide an easy way to locate where the keel is.
    The  lofting process can be done easily using a drawing program.  The plans provide the precise outside shape.  Connect the dot straight lines define the inside shape.
    Each piece has a pattern rubber cemented to it.  When the layers between two stations are all glued together, the pattern is left on the "frame" at each end.   Because of the locators. the patterns on each end are in precise alignment.  The bevel will be correct.
     
    Locator points and the lofting of them:
    On a wooden hull sailing ship, where the inside shape is important and relatively narrow,  a perpendicular locator to position two frames, much less the series of them between two stations,  will not go thru the actual body of more than one frame.  This starts to happen when you get much beyond the middle of a ship.  I solved this by placing my locators outside the actual frame.  It makes for extra wood for each timber and for more wood to remove when getting the final shape for each frame sandwich assembly.
    This is not a factor with your hull. The thickness of each frame sandwich would be wide enough that an inside perpendicular would work as a locator.
    You would need 3 sets of locators.
    1 - to align the timbers of each pair.
    2 - to align each of the pairs into the sandwich of layers between two stations
    3 - to mate the two sandwiches that meet at each station.
    For  #1  I would use  the 1.75" long steel quilters pins  they are #73 wire gauge and #70 hole is close without being difficult to remove after the glue has set.
    For #2 and #3  I would use off the shelf bamboo skewers.  Measure the gauge and buy a few bits that are close enough not to wobble, are a push fit,  but no not need a hammer.
    Glue in the bamboo.
     
    The assembly method would be 
    scroll cut the timbers  -  no need to get too close to the pattern line -   A good hand fretsaw would get your there,  a scroll saw if you have one,  I use an 1/8" blade with a Carter Stabilizer on a 9" benchtop bandsaw.
    Join and glue up the "frame" pairs. 
    Assemble and glue up all of the pairs in a station sandwich.
    Using a sanding drum, shape the near outside shape and do the bevel for the sandwich.
    Join pairs of sandwiches and fine tune the transition by sanding.
    Starting from the middle and going to each end,  join the pairs of sandwiches to the whole and fare those transitions.
    The bow and stern build and shaping are a different challenge.  I would use a buttock dimension series of layers there.
     
    Pine is relatively inexpensive and readily available.  It is easy to work.
    Worse comes to worst, the hull can be the subject of a serious sealing and undercoating.  With a good final coat of paint, it should look metal.  If you wish the metal plates to be hinted at, rectangles of paper can be glued to the hull before sealing.  Things like bilge keels - parts needing to be glued to the hull - mask the glue area before sealing.
     
    Anyway,  here is an alternate method that breaks the hull shaping process into smaller and more manageable sub assemblies.    
     
     
     
  22. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Byrnes Sander or saw, that is the Question?   
    To anticipate the next question
    accessories:
    Unless you have a specific need for beveled planks,  the tilting table  will probably have the least use vs expenditure value.
    You can make do with either a metric or standard stop.   Wonderful would be a digital readout  like my caliper - fraction/digital/metric - fine marks and age rigid lenses make for a hard of seeing situation.
    The sliding table is elegant.  A homemade version that performs the function is not difficult to make, but this one is well made and the specs are in excess of our needs.  For short piece cutting, a homemade version with a short table on one side would save having to remove the fence.
    Jim has custom fabricated an oversized table for some members here.  He needs the body to fit it,  so if you work really oversized stock,  this may be an option to discuss when an order is placed.
    Most of the rest are not expensive and are generally of the better to have and not need category.
    One blade company that we use has gone away recently, so for blades, more variety is better and a backup for the ones that are really used a lot.  This works if CYA is your way. 
    The key concept for blades is that the number of teeth on the blade appropriate to use is inversely proportional to the thickness of the stock being cut.
  23. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Byrnes Sander or saw, that is the Question?   
    I did not catch that you already have a thickness sander in reading your question.  I was not questioning or criticizing your present setup.
     
    The Byrnes thickness sander is a solid, precise, stable machine.  The medium is easy to renew.  My only criticism is for the strength of the spring holding the depth wheel.  I jury rigged a fix.  For its function, there is no peer,  or even close.
    The Byrnes tablesaw.  Nothing else comes close.  It will probably require tech with a near zero kerf ray with no charring to replace it.  Or a neutronium wire.
    The Byrnes disc sander  -  powerful,  the dust extraction is excellent,  I sand to a pattern line, but I have every confidence that miter gauge is accurate.  No plastic is sanded here, so speed control is not needed.
     
    The ideal choice is all three.  If you must choose one,  odds on,  the tablesaw is number one,  once you have a hull to plank.   It does not come into play for framing, though.
    Framing - the disc sander is minor, but vital.
    Processing commercial lumber - the thickness sander   -   but a big powerful bandsaw stands ahead of it.
     
  24. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Byrnes Sander or saw, that is the Question?   
    I use the sander to mill to final dimension,  the stock that the saws will process.
     
    For POF -  lumber - big bandsaw -  thickness sander - scroll cutting saw - disc sander - drum sander - hand tools -  for frames
                     lumber - big bandsaw -  thickness sander - 4" tablesaw - disc sander - hand tools  - for planking  and furniture.
     
    Given your - Current:   I do not see where a thickness sander would serve you.   For planking and furniture - the volume used places a Byrnes tablesaw within the place of being practical for generating dimension stock from a 3/4" plank.   A 2-4 foot long board wider than 6 inches would be no fun.   At a large scale 1:48  - a stock plank that is 1 foot long is 48 feet in scale.
  25. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Louie da fly in Translation help needed - Renaissance German   
    I haven't gotten to 1487 in The Great Sea yet,  but the Turks were mostly lubbers and the Greeks mostly handled the sea going - if not Genoa, or Venice or other webfoot traders - leading up to this time for the city on the Dardanelles.  For the ship type, I would be reluctant to make any regional specifics limited  to too small a region in the Med.  The relevance of the script may not be all that much.
     
    There are some interesting details. 
    3 masts,  main mast made,  sliding slot for lateen mizzen,  two part yards, 
    near horizontal after castle,  too many mushrooms when drawing the fore castle slope. 
    serious number of wales, 
    I have wondered about  the vertical strakes at the waist -  vertical wales? , but with the number of horizontal wales and the problem that they could cause, I guess that they are rubbing strakes.  These guys stopped as often as a city bus,  for water, food, and trade so hauling up a boat or big barrels must have been a near daily operation.  
    The "circular attachments" on main mast castle and fore mast castle - shields? 
    The web above each of the mast castles -  was there a problem with resting sea birds and their poop?  If things got to a point where that was needed as a defense netting, conditions on deck would likely have been dire already.  To keep the soldiers in?   I remember a dice shaker -  a flat base, a clear hemisphere, middle long spring with a suction attachment - pull it to one side and let go - the dice rattle all around the interior.  In a blow, anyone up there would be a die.
    Why does only the right side of the mainsail have a stitched supplement?
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