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Jaager

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  1. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in American Cherry   
    That is plane sawn and planed Black Cherry.  When ripped into stock at model scale, the grain is not all that noticeable to my eye.  It will darken significantly and the grain difference will be even less.  The inclusions are a pain and reduce the yield of usable wood.
    Black Cherry is one of my primary woods.  It is easy to work and has no bad habits.
    It is however a necessary make do substitute.
    Pear is harder, and has a more uniform nature.  Rating Pear at 100,  I give Black Cherry an 85.  (I give Apple a 200, but I find it unobtainable.) Here is the States, the rarity and cost makes it way too expensive to use for framing.  Cutting curved timbers involves significant waste and Pear is not practical.
     
    Tasmanian Myrtle
    Unless there is something about it that I am missing,  I would say that you will be golden if you use it.
    It is about 1/3 harder than Black Cherry and that is a plus for me.
    It looks relatively uniform. 
    You complained earlier about a pink tint.  Do not sweat about that.  Pink in any wood seems to be a passing stage.  It will likely darken.  (Recently, a member in China was going off on Pink Ivory, because the pink went away and that is its name.)  How dark it will eventually get,  you will discover in time. 
    One option is to use a reddish dye.   Being specific and technical, I mean a dye, and not a stain.  A stain is a semi-transparent paint. It does not belong on quality wood.  
    Dyes come in two types, 
    as a solution in an alcohol - it does not raise the grain, but it does not penetrate very deeply.
    as a solution in water - first exposure raises the grain, but it penetrates more deeply.  The grain swelling problem is solved by treated the finished wood with plain water ( with 5% or 10% PVA in it )  sand or scrape the swollen fibers after things dry and then use the dye.  
     
    In your place, I would:
    Give the Black Cherry a pass. 
    Work the Myrtle now to determine if it is everything it seems to be.
    If it passes the test, load up on it.  Figure out how much you will need and at least quadruple that amount.  Experience has taught me that wood like this will increase in price and become more difficult to obtain and decrease in quality.
     
    Your next mission: 
    Find a domestic lumber that is blond, tight grain, closed pore, hard, with unobtrusive  and low contrast grain.
    Blue Gum looks possible  - but for this     Grain/Texture: Grain is interlocked, with a uniform medium to coarse texture. Low natural luster. 
    medium or coarse does not sound good. 
     
  2. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in milling wood   
    I have not come across any mention of out gassing and Yellow Poplar before.  That does not mean that it is not true.  One other factor: clear finished Yellow Poplar can scream: please paint me. 
     
    Did you by chance use PVA to assemble the box?  It is essentially a strong concentration of acetic acid in the bottle.  I failed an Organic Chemistry lab quiz, because I did a shortcut jump on a: Is it an ester or an ether? problem.  There was no ppt, so I made the wrong choice.  I forgot that acetic acid is a liquid and does not form a ppt.  Anyway, the acid will slowly evaporate and I suspect that polyvinyl polymerization continues for a long time after the desired bond is formed.  The reaction probably releases acetic acid, that could occur for years at a very low level.
  3. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Nirvana in Is any ship build log welcome here ?   
    This thread had me looking at the modern scratch build logs, just to see how much steel was there. 
    The targets and objectives for simulating iron and steel are sort of different from pre-1860 wood.  It is sort of off my usual path.
    There are two ships that are not too different from the one in this thread, that dock not too far across the harbor from my deck.
    They seem to spend most of their time either in the Bay, or in the Atlantic off the Virginia capes.  The difference is that they each have a huge crane.
    They are not home now and what with a hurricane coming our way, I am thinking they will join the Navy in staying out at sea in a zone where the storm ain't.
    I wonder if the two LSD here now, will soon beat feet.
     
    In looking at this log: Pelikaan Dutch Beamtrawler 1999 by kees de mol - FINISHED - scale 1/75
    I came up with a "would this work?"  armchair experiment proposition:
    The hull was fiberglass over a wooden plug.  The complexity of hull had him lay the glass fiber as two halves.
    My question: if the plug had been shaped as three longitudinal pieces, one sort of narrow encompassing either side of the keel and the other two: the bulk of the hull on either side.
    The glass fiber laid on the whole hull.  When the epoxy had cured, the middle section be unsecured from the sections on either side, and pulled straight out.  Then the sides, where the complex reverse shapes were, could be pulled to the vacated middle - even rotated a bit - and pulled out,  leaving a complete glass fiber hull.
     
  4. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in milling wood   
    Roger,
    The grain look (as well as the course grain and open pores - which tends to overpower any detail and be distracting in a model,)  is pretty much the same for all Oak species.  You are right about Red Oak with one additional characteristic - the pore structure has open communication internally.  Water or air can be blow thru it from one side to the other.  If a barrel is made from Red Oak and it is filled with a liquid - water or alcohol, instead of nails - it will actually only be borrowing the liquid.  On a cross sea voyage, the barrels could be partially or totally empty at the destination - if alcohol, at least.   It would be interesting trying to keep a dry bilge in a ship planked with Red Oak.   Must have been interesting to have been the ones who discovered that while at sea.
     
    About the Mamoli Beagle -  everything that I seen regarding this kit suggests that economy was a primary consideration.  Never mind that the hull appears to be the same as that of Bounty and/or Endeavor and is not that of a Cherokee class - 10 gun - "coffin" brig.  It was manufactured in Italy?  In North America, Walnut available is Black Walnut (Juglans nigra).  It is far and away superior to any other species of Walnut.  It is also way too expensive for an economy kit.  The native European Walnut is (I think) English Walnut.  It produces the eatable nuts, so is not primarily a lumber source and is also too expensive for an economy kit.  Any Walnut in the kit is likely to be African Walnut.  This is not a Juglans species at all.  It is closer to being a Mahogany. The name Walnut for it is a marketing ploy and not Botany.  I am guessing it tends to be brittle and prone to splitting when bent.  Black Walnut will make a hull planked with it a dark color, but it is not likely to come near matching existing African Walnut planking.  Although most of Black Walnut's properties are ones we seek, one unfortunate property is its open pores.  
     
    Commercial hardwood lumber in eastern North America - that is suitable for our purposes, domestic and commonly available:
    Hard Maple
    Beech
    Birch
    Black Cherry
    Yellow Poplar
     
    Ripping a 0.5mm slice using a 10" tablesaw =  if the fence is perfect, the board is dead flat, and the blade is running true and does not eat into the slice,  a Freud 10" thin kerf ripping blade has a 0.094" kerf - that is 2.4mm, so for every pass, 80% of the wood goes to saw dust.  
     
  5. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Gregory in milling wood   
    Roger,
    The grain look (as well as the course grain and open pores - which tends to overpower any detail and be distracting in a model,)  is pretty much the same for all Oak species.  You are right about Red Oak with one additional characteristic - the pore structure has open communication internally.  Water or air can be blow thru it from one side to the other.  If a barrel is made from Red Oak and it is filled with a liquid - water or alcohol, instead of nails - it will actually only be borrowing the liquid.  On a cross sea voyage, the barrels could be partially or totally empty at the destination - if alcohol, at least.   It would be interesting trying to keep a dry bilge in a ship planked with Red Oak.   Must have been interesting to have been the ones who discovered that while at sea.
     
    About the Mamoli Beagle -  everything that I seen regarding this kit suggests that economy was a primary consideration.  Never mind that the hull appears to be the same as that of Bounty and/or Endeavor and is not that of a Cherokee class - 10 gun - "coffin" brig.  It was manufactured in Italy?  In North America, Walnut available is Black Walnut (Juglans nigra).  It is far and away superior to any other species of Walnut.  It is also way too expensive for an economy kit.  The native European Walnut is (I think) English Walnut.  It produces the eatable nuts, so is not primarily a lumber source and is also too expensive for an economy kit.  Any Walnut in the kit is likely to be African Walnut.  This is not a Juglans species at all.  It is closer to being a Mahogany. The name Walnut for it is a marketing ploy and not Botany.  I am guessing it tends to be brittle and prone to splitting when bent.  Black Walnut will make a hull planked with it a dark color, but it is not likely to come near matching existing African Walnut planking.  Although most of Black Walnut's properties are ones we seek, one unfortunate property is its open pores.  
     
    Commercial hardwood lumber in eastern North America - that is suitable for our purposes, domestic and commonly available:
    Hard Maple
    Beech
    Birch
    Black Cherry
    Yellow Poplar
     
    Ripping a 0.5mm slice using a 10" tablesaw =  if the fence is perfect, the board is dead flat, and the blade is running true and does not eat into the slice,  a Freud 10" thin kerf ripping blade has a 0.094" kerf - that is 2.4mm, so for every pass, 80% of the wood goes to saw dust.  
     
  6. Like
    Jaager reacted to Roger Pellett in milling wood   
    Allen,
     
    I don’t know about Lowe’s or Home Depot but my preferred home improvement store/ lumberyard is Menards and the the oak lumber that they sell is red oak, a species to be avoided in full size ship or boat construction as it has little or no rot resistance.  Also with it’s coarse grain it would be a poor ship model choice.
     
    Roger
  7. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Glue?   
    From the product MDS:
    Product Identifier
    Product Name: Gorilla Wood
    GlueSynonyms: Polyvinyl Acetate Polymer product in water
     
    So it is just another yellow PVA product.
    I would not be surprised to learn that it was actually manufactured by Franklin or Elmer's and just packaged and branded by Gorilla.
     
    What you have is essentially identical  to Titebond  or Elmer's  or any other yellow PVA that we do talk about.  It should be excellent to use.
  8. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Linden   
    Blick  carries a fairly a extensive list of Midwest Basswood its site.  It is all Imperial - not metric - so the closest to what you seek is
    3/32 x 1/4  and  1/32 x 3/16
    It is a large site :  https://www.dickblick.com/products/midwest-products-genuine-basswood-strips/
     
    Stay far, far away from any Balsa products. unless you mean to add a motor and fly your model.  ( I think it was a  Navy pilot trope - the designers would try to fly a brick if they put a large enough engine on it. )
    ( I think the F4 was an inspiration for that thought.)
    Echoing from the long corridor to the scratch build wing =  with a big bandsaw, a Byrnes thickness sander, and a Byrnes tablesaw,  most any dimensions can be had.  The species is limited to what you can purchase or harvest.  But, geography, and rapacious past behavior does place annoying limits on available species.
  9. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from RichardG in Linden   
    Blick  carries a fairly a extensive list of Midwest Basswood its site.  It is all Imperial - not metric - so the closest to what you seek is
    3/32 x 1/4  and  1/32 x 3/16
    It is a large site :  https://www.dickblick.com/products/midwest-products-genuine-basswood-strips/
     
    Stay far, far away from any Balsa products. unless you mean to add a motor and fly your model.  ( I think it was a  Navy pilot trope - the designers would try to fly a brick if they put a large enough engine on it. )
    ( I think the F4 was an inspiration for that thought.)
    Echoing from the long corridor to the scratch build wing =  with a big bandsaw, a Byrnes thickness sander, and a Byrnes tablesaw,  most any dimensions can be had.  The species is limited to what you can purchase or harvest.  But, geography, and rapacious past behavior does place annoying limits on available species.
  10. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Linden   
    From The Wood Database
     
    Common Name(s): Basswood, American Basswood, Lime, Linden
    Scientific Name: Tilia americana
    Average Dried Weight: 26 lbs/ft3 (415 kg/m3)
    Specific Gravity (Basic, 12% MC): .32, .42
    Janka Hardness: 410 lbf
     
    Common Name(s): European Lime, Common Lime, Common Linden
    Scientific Name: Tilia x europaea
    (hybrid of Tilia platyphyllos and T. cordata; syn. T. vulgaris)
    Average Dried Weight: 33 lbs/ft3 (535 kg/m3)
    Specific Gravity (Basic, 12% MC): .42, .53
    Janka Hardness: 700 lbf
     
    Common Name(s): Poplar, Tulip Poplar, Yellow Poplar
    Scientific Name: Liriodendron tulipifera
    Average Dried Weight: 29 lbs/ft3 (455 kg/m3)
    Specific Gravity (Basic, 12% MC): .40, .46
    Janka Hardness: 540 lbf
     
    Not to be confused with the totally awful
     
    Black Poplar
    Common Name(s): Black Poplar, Lombardy Poplar, Mappa burl
    Scientific Name: Populus nigra
    Average Dried Weight: 24 lbs/ft3 (385 kg/m3)
    Specific Gravity (Basic, 12% MC): .31, .39
    Janka Hardness: 460 lbf
     or
    White Poplar
    Common Name(s): White Poplar, Silver Poplar
    Scientific Name: Populus alba
    Average Dried Weight: 28 lbs/ft3 (440 kg/m3)
    Specific Gravity (Basic, 12% MC): .36, .44
    Janka Hardness: 410 lbf
     
    Except for its troublesome color variation - Yellow Poplar is excellent to work with - if you like relatively soft wood.
    Given that it is about twice as hard as Basswood and how well Yellow Poplar works,  I can see the appeal of European Lime.
    And the confusion about its quality if seen as interchangeable with the borderline acceptable Basswood.
  11. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Glue?   
    From the product MDS:
    Product Identifier
    Product Name: Gorilla Wood
    GlueSynonyms: Polyvinyl Acetate Polymer product in water
     
    So it is just another yellow PVA product.
    I would not be surprised to learn that it was actually manufactured by Franklin or Elmer's and just packaged and branded by Gorilla.
     
    What you have is essentially identical  to Titebond  or Elmer's  or any other yellow PVA that we do talk about.  It should be excellent to use.
  12. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Ryland Craze in Is any ship build log welcome here ?   
    This thread had me looking at the modern scratch build logs, just to see how much steel was there. 
    The targets and objectives for simulating iron and steel are sort of different from pre-1860 wood.  It is sort of off my usual path.
    There are two ships that are not too different from the one in this thread, that dock not too far across the harbor from my deck.
    They seem to spend most of their time either in the Bay, or in the Atlantic off the Virginia capes.  The difference is that they each have a huge crane.
    They are not home now and what with a hurricane coming our way, I am thinking they will join the Navy in staying out at sea in a zone where the storm ain't.
    I wonder if the two LSD here now, will soon beat feet.
     
    In looking at this log: Pelikaan Dutch Beamtrawler 1999 by kees de mol - FINISHED - scale 1/75
    I came up with a "would this work?"  armchair experiment proposition:
    The hull was fiberglass over a wooden plug.  The complexity of hull had him lay the glass fiber as two halves.
    My question: if the plug had been shaped as three longitudinal pieces, one sort of narrow encompassing either side of the keel and the other two: the bulk of the hull on either side.
    The glass fiber laid on the whole hull.  When the epoxy had cured, the middle section be unsecured from the sections on either side, and pulled straight out.  Then the sides, where the complex reverse shapes were, could be pulled to the vacated middle - even rotated a bit - and pulled out,  leaving a complete glass fiber hull.
     
  13. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Bob Cleek in Making hooks and knees   
    If you are determined to use curved grain, you could follow Davis and collect downed branches from useful species of trees after a wind storm = natural in scale curved stock.
    A sure source of the proper species would be a nearby fruit orchard.  If they brush pile instead of immediately chipping, there will be already seasoned stock.  Just mind the critters inhabiting the brush.
    If they let you get green trimmings from a tree, there is the drying /seasoning step.
    The urban ornamental Pear trees here have excellent wood for our uses, but the branching is too acute for knees. 
    Lumber with large knots - the wood around the branch is often the desired arc. 
     
    For one ship, a fretsaw and hand plane will get you there -
  14. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Bob Cleek in Admiralty or Humbrol equal to Model Shipways   
    Wahka,
    Perhaps it would serve your need and pocketbook to drop back to first cases. 
    Your ship is from the era of mineral paints.  The color range was limited and in a broke, always looking for the least expensive everything, country,  only those minerals that were common and low cost would have been used.
    MS would have selected a best guess range of colors.   There is little probability that there is an official USN color pallet from the time.
    I would think that doing research on paint colors and history would give you a realistic pallet to choose from.
    The quality of European mfg model paint is likely to be, at the least, the equal to the supplier used my MM.  So, you are likely to get better for much less using EU made paint.  Just make realistic, and informed choices.  You will after all, only be replicating what MM will have to have done.
     
    If I remember correctly from my science classes,  the vibrant, bright, rainbow colors are a creation of late 19th century German organic chemistry.  The chemical and drug industries developed from there.  It has given us a brighter, less expensive, wider range of products, more toxic, more cancer filled World.
  15. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from WorldSoup in Glue?   
    From the product MDS:
    Product Identifier
    Product Name: Gorilla Wood
    GlueSynonyms: Polyvinyl Acetate Polymer product in water
     
    So it is just another yellow PVA product.
    I would not be surprised to learn that it was actually manufactured by Franklin or Elmer's and just packaged and branded by Gorilla.
     
    What you have is essentially identical  to Titebond  or Elmer's  or any other yellow PVA that we do talk about.  It should be excellent to use.
  16. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from RichardG in Admiralty or Humbrol equal to Model Shipways   
    Wahka,
    Perhaps it would serve your need and pocketbook to drop back to first cases. 
    Your ship is from the era of mineral paints.  The color range was limited and in a broke, always looking for the least expensive everything, country,  only those minerals that were common and low cost would have been used.
    MS would have selected a best guess range of colors.   There is little probability that there is an official USN color pallet from the time.
    I would think that doing research on paint colors and history would give you a realistic pallet to choose from.
    The quality of European mfg model paint is likely to be, at the least, the equal to the supplier used my MM.  So, you are likely to get better for much less using EU made paint.  Just make realistic, and informed choices.  You will after all, only be replicating what MM will have to have done.
     
    If I remember correctly from my science classes,  the vibrant, bright, rainbow colors are a creation of late 19th century German organic chemistry.  The chemical and drug industries developed from there.  It has given us a brighter, less expensive, wider range of products, more toxic, more cancer filled World.
  17. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Bill Brown in Glue?   
    From the product MDS:
    Product Identifier
    Product Name: Gorilla Wood
    GlueSynonyms: Polyvinyl Acetate Polymer product in water
     
    So it is just another yellow PVA product.
    I would not be surprised to learn that it was actually manufactured by Franklin or Elmer's and just packaged and branded by Gorilla.
     
    What you have is essentially identical  to Titebond  or Elmer's  or any other yellow PVA that we do talk about.  It should be excellent to use.
  18. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Roger Pellett in Glue?   
    From the product MDS:
    Product Identifier
    Product Name: Gorilla Wood
    GlueSynonyms: Polyvinyl Acetate Polymer product in water
     
    So it is just another yellow PVA product.
    I would not be surprised to learn that it was actually manufactured by Franklin or Elmer's and just packaged and branded by Gorilla.
     
    What you have is essentially identical  to Titebond  or Elmer's  or any other yellow PVA that we do talk about.  It should be excellent to use.
  19. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Aliphatic Resins: How do they actually work?   
    About the holystoning,  which was sanding with loose sand and a big flat rock at least some of the time.  I see most of the crew as being barefoot most of the time.  Splinters could be a disaster and not just painful, so the deck would need attention often enough to avoid that.
     
    My experience with actual sailing is slight.  But one Summer, I took an auxiliary sail passenger boat over to (I think) Cape Lookout, NC.  The sail was used for a while.  July/August coastal North Carolina can get really hot. 
    I discovered a few things:
    There is no shade on a single deck sailing vessel.  Not only is there direct radiation from the Sun,  there is reflected radiation from the water surface.  When sailing, any breeze is reduced because the vessel is moving with it.
     
    Barefoot, open deck -  hot, hot, hot - also the deck planks could loose water and shrink.  I am imagining that during most of the day, there would be crewmen whose job was to haul in buckets of seawater and keep the deck wet.  I think the options for the soles of shoes was hobnails (land only) and leather.  Leather and a wet surface = broken tailbones.  Sea water from around a ship that not only had sea creature poo,  but a real concentration of crew poo floating along the side,  could present some really interesting infections.  Puncture wounds would be something to avoid.
  20. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Aliphatic Resins: How do they actually work?   
    As a game of speculation - not the result of experimental testing:
    1- acrylic paint will leave a smooth surface with few or no pores or irregularities.  In the situation of wood-acrylic-PVA-wood, The strength of the bond of the acrylic with wood is one limiting factor.  The bond of the PVA with acrylic will probably have very little of a physical component.  I see the chains as a flat layer across the face of the paint.  The bond will be a weak electrostatic one instead of the usual mechanical one.  The large size of the chains probably makes for a wavy, knotty, interface on a microscopic level.  The electrostatic bond is likely significantly weaker than that formed by the type of glue that uses electrostatic attraction for a bonding mechanism.  The fix is to seriously abrade or scrape the acrylic at the bond interface.
    2- paper   -   is porous.  This situation of wood-PVA-paper-PVA-wood,  The weakest point is paper-paper.  Depending on the type of paper used, the PVA may penetrate enough that there is a PVA-PVA bond inside the paper.  I would not risk my life on the strength of that bond, but if may be close (or at least closer) to a normal PVA bond. 
     
    The hint:  I see this as two techniques for simulating caulking in a laid deck. 
    Gloves off!
    The bond between planks on a model deck does not need to be strong.  The needed strength is at the deck to beam ( and if your OCD is off the scale - the carlings, ledges, edges of hanging knees and face of lodging knees).  My perspective is scratch and POF,  so for me plywood is for tool bases and housing.
    Using paint to simulate the caulking - a really bad idea.
    Most models - to my eye - place way too much emphasis on the caulking seams.  Even exactly replicating the scale width is probably too much because of scale effect.
    The modern "repairs"  done on the decks of saved vessels such as USS Constitution and HMS Trincomalee  look like cartoons of what was done 200 years ago.  Perhaps if the deck was originally laid in the tropics in the Summer and it was sailed to the North polar region in Winter and allows to dry and shrink, the seams might be that wide.  As it is, I suspect it is a combination of lesser carpentry skills and giving the customer what he expects to see.
    Paper is a time tested method suggested in at least one of the original core texts for our hobby.  Depending on scale, the paper might be over doing it.  Using black paper is the wrong color for pre-1860.
    Consider adding Black Walnut dye crystals to some PVA instead.  It is closer to Pine tar in color.  The bulk can be used to dye rigging - intense for standing and dilute for running rigging.
  21. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Is any ship build log welcome here ?   
    This thread had me looking at the modern scratch build logs, just to see how much steel was there. 
    The targets and objectives for simulating iron and steel are sort of different from pre-1860 wood.  It is sort of off my usual path.
    There are two ships that are not too different from the one in this thread, that dock not too far across the harbor from my deck.
    They seem to spend most of their time either in the Bay, or in the Atlantic off the Virginia capes.  The difference is that they each have a huge crane.
    They are not home now and what with a hurricane coming our way, I am thinking they will join the Navy in staying out at sea in a zone where the storm ain't.
    I wonder if the two LSD here now, will soon beat feet.
     
    In looking at this log: Pelikaan Dutch Beamtrawler 1999 by kees de mol - FINISHED - scale 1/75
    I came up with a "would this work?"  armchair experiment proposition:
    The hull was fiberglass over a wooden plug.  The complexity of hull had him lay the glass fiber as two halves.
    My question: if the plug had been shaped as three longitudinal pieces, one sort of narrow encompassing either side of the keel and the other two: the bulk of the hull on either side.
    The glass fiber laid on the whole hull.  When the epoxy had cured, the middle section be unsecured from the sections on either side, and pulled straight out.  Then the sides, where the complex reverse shapes were, could be pulled to the vacated middle - even rotated a bit - and pulled out,  leaving a complete glass fiber hull.
     
  22. Like
    Jaager reacted to bartley in Aliphatic Resins: How do they actually work?   
    Hi Jaeger,
     
    On the subject of wind speed - or really "apparent" wind speed. It depends on the point of sailing. If you are sailing before the wind then as you say the apparent wind is less than the true wind speed but if you are sailing into the breeze then the apparent wind is stronger than the true wind.  Also since the boat is at an angle to the wind at this point of sailing the addition of vectors causes the apparent wind to move aft.  But you are definitely correct about the lack of shade on deck!
     
    John
  23. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from bruce d in Aliphatic Resins: How do they actually work?   
    About the holystoning,  which was sanding with loose sand and a big flat rock at least some of the time.  I see most of the crew as being barefoot most of the time.  Splinters could be a disaster and not just painful, so the deck would need attention often enough to avoid that.
     
    My experience with actual sailing is slight.  But one Summer, I took an auxiliary sail passenger boat over to (I think) Cape Lookout, NC.  The sail was used for a while.  July/August coastal North Carolina can get really hot. 
    I discovered a few things:
    There is no shade on a single deck sailing vessel.  Not only is there direct radiation from the Sun,  there is reflected radiation from the water surface.  When sailing, any breeze is reduced because the vessel is moving with it.
     
    Barefoot, open deck -  hot, hot, hot - also the deck planks could loose water and shrink.  I am imagining that during most of the day, there would be crewmen whose job was to haul in buckets of seawater and keep the deck wet.  I think the options for the soles of shoes was hobnails (land only) and leather.  Leather and a wet surface = broken tailbones.  Sea water from around a ship that not only had sea creature poo,  but a real concentration of crew poo floating along the side,  could present some really interesting infections.  Puncture wounds would be something to avoid.
  24. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from tkay11 in Aliphatic Resins: How do they actually work?   
    As a game of speculation - not the result of experimental testing:
    1- acrylic paint will leave a smooth surface with few or no pores or irregularities.  In the situation of wood-acrylic-PVA-wood, The strength of the bond of the acrylic with wood is one limiting factor.  The bond of the PVA with acrylic will probably have very little of a physical component.  I see the chains as a flat layer across the face of the paint.  The bond will be a weak electrostatic one instead of the usual mechanical one.  The large size of the chains probably makes for a wavy, knotty, interface on a microscopic level.  The electrostatic bond is likely significantly weaker than that formed by the type of glue that uses electrostatic attraction for a bonding mechanism.  The fix is to seriously abrade or scrape the acrylic at the bond interface.
    2- paper   -   is porous.  This situation of wood-PVA-paper-PVA-wood,  The weakest point is paper-paper.  Depending on the type of paper used, the PVA may penetrate enough that there is a PVA-PVA bond inside the paper.  I would not risk my life on the strength of that bond, but if may be close (or at least closer) to a normal PVA bond. 
     
    The hint:  I see this as two techniques for simulating caulking in a laid deck. 
    Gloves off!
    The bond between planks on a model deck does not need to be strong.  The needed strength is at the deck to beam ( and if your OCD is off the scale - the carlings, ledges, edges of hanging knees and face of lodging knees).  My perspective is scratch and POF,  so for me plywood is for tool bases and housing.
    Using paint to simulate the caulking - a really bad idea.
    Most models - to my eye - place way too much emphasis on the caulking seams.  Even exactly replicating the scale width is probably too much because of scale effect.
    The modern "repairs"  done on the decks of saved vessels such as USS Constitution and HMS Trincomalee  look like cartoons of what was done 200 years ago.  Perhaps if the deck was originally laid in the tropics in the Summer and it was sailed to the North polar region in Winter and allows to dry and shrink, the seams might be that wide.  As it is, I suspect it is a combination of lesser carpentry skills and giving the customer what he expects to see.
    Paper is a time tested method suggested in at least one of the original core texts for our hobby.  Depending on scale, the paper might be over doing it.  Using black paper is the wrong color for pre-1860.
    Consider adding Black Walnut dye crystals to some PVA instead.  It is closer to Pine tar in color.  The bulk can be used to dye rigging - intense for standing and dilute for running rigging.
  25. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from MEDDO in Aliphatic Resins: How do they actually work?   
    The core material is the same.  The yellow PVA has additives that increase resistance to water. The additives have an amber tint.
    The pattern for the range of PVA products includes:
    bookbinders PVA - white - dries clear - pH 7 - neutral
    Elmer's Glue All - white -                        pH 5
    Weldbond - white -  water resistant - pH 4.5-5
    Titebond - lt. yellow - not water resistant - pH 4
    Titebond II - yellow -  water resistant  - pH 3
    Titebond III - lt, brown - waterproof -  pH 2.5   - not for continuous immersion -  Resorcinol or newer tech
     
    From a practical point on the scale,  for our purposes - except for bookbinders PVA (for rigging and paper) - the wood will probably fail before the bonds formed using any of them do.  Any differences are a tempest in a teapot.
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