druxey

Steven,
 
1150 borders on prehistory, a long, long, time ago.  Short of digging up a well preserved vessel no one can really say how these vessels were built and sailed.  Likewise, no one can really say if details known to exist on much later lateen rigged vessels were used in 1150.  The best anyone can do is to make use of contemporary information available, which you are doing.  Keep up the good work, while realizing that this is a difficult subject.
 
Roger

Thanks, Eric. I'm afraid I'm a bit of a show pony in that regard. I enjoy trying for a bit of extra interest in my builds to spark the attention of those in the know.
 
Steven

While I've enjoyed this discussion as a novice in this area, I think Steven nails it at one point in observing that some small details that may or may not be in error act as discussion points for the knowledgeable and will not be noticed by the casual viewer. I certainly have a few on my models and it's actually a thrill when someone notices one in person and it sparks an informed discussion. Well done Steven and carry on!

Steven
 
I understand that you want to continue building and that this discussion hinders you in the construction of your model.
Finally, I would like to state one thing to complete  the story.
You came up with the photos of a Ghanjah, noting that the halyard went backwards at an angle and could therefore interfere with the latin sail of the aft mast. With a Ghanjah, and with several types in the extended family of Dhows, it is customary that when the ship is on the beach for maintenance, the mainmast is lowered. It then falls backwards into a trench that was kept free for this purpose. As a result, it is impossible to attach the halyard to the base of the mast, and the halyard must be attached further back. In the accompanying pictures you can see a Ghanjah, or a Baghla, or a Kotia, these are the three largest types of the family, which has lowered the mast to the rear. In the picture of the deck you can see that trench in front of you, covered by a plank, before the mast, so without facilities for hoisting the rod, that was not possible. You can also see the capstan on the side, to give space for the mast. I think the crew takes it for granted that the latin sail of the aft mast sometimes gives problems when tacking, which is caused by the possibility of tilting the mast.
I wish you success in the further construction and I will follow you with interest.
Constant

Hi Steven,
 
I hope you don't mind my adding to the discussion, but I don't agree that this is an error - if the shrouds were on the leeward side then they won't have a lot of load on them. A helmsman could intentionally sail an angle to de-load a shroud so it can be worked on. 
 
 

Doreltomin, you're probably right. But I'm not going to carve another figure - the mistake will just have to remain for eagle-eyed people like you to spot and comment on 
 
Tartane, thank you for your input, but despite your belief that the halyards in this configuration would foul the sails, that nonetheless seems to be the way they did it. Note the position of the halyards on these two 2-masted ships  - they lead to the black triangle at the top of each mast and around the white dot (the sheave) and back down again.

Zibaldone da Canale  early 14th century
 
And the same applies with these ones
                  
Bestiary Morgan Library ms4 59 fol 18r North Italy c. 1290          1232 - 1261 Bohemund: William of Tyre's Histoire d'Outremer, BL Yates Thompson 12 f.58v
And these 
  
1332 Italy, KBR ms. 9404-05 - Liber secretorum Fidelium Crucis       St Ursula, Church de San Francisco de Palma de Mallorca 1st quarter 14th century
 
And as confirmation that this is not just artistic invention,  multi-masted lateeners and setee-rigged vessels in the 20th century continued to do so:
   

I am quite prepared to believe your contention that chebecs did it differently, but there  is sufficient evidence that this was the way it was done in mediaeval times, and has continued to be done this way in many vessels for centuries in between.
 
Steven
 

Nice, Chuck, and theoretically foolproof!

Mark: if you have detail photos of the interior of the forward part of that vessel and near the tiller, posting those would be very helpful. Thanks for the kind offer.
 
Yes, these crafts were very lightly built but surprisingly strong. Think of them as predecessors of today's 'eights' rowing shells.
 
These two photos show how the lap disappears into the rabbet at the bow. The second strake also has a rolling bevel that fits the one on the edge of the first strake. You can also see that there is no gap along the lap, as the bevel that was sanded in takes care if this. PVA glue was applied with a very small brush and any excess cleaned up immediately.

A little more time was spent on completing the starboard garboard strake. The next step is to shape the lands for the second strake of planking. If one were to omit this step, the second strake would not have any gluing surface and there would be a gap under the strake, A. Obviously, a bevel is required. It varies in angle along the strake according to hull curvature, B. To cut this accurately, I took some scrap wood the width of a strake and rubber cemented some 220 grit sandpaper along one edge, C. Keeping the 'safe' corner of this along the mark-out of the second strake's far edge, it is easy to shape the correct bevel along the installed strake. The next instalment will show this completed.
 
A note: I found the short pins under the keel not very effective in holding the keel straight, as the keel kept popping off. On a another long narrow hull I would drill the pins all the way through the keel.
 
A digression: One side effect of modelling an open boat at this small scale is the amount of wood required to build it. Very little is needed, making this a very economic exercise in materials, but not in time.

Thanks for all the 'likes' and comments, everyone. 
 
Dan: the planking butts are arranged to fall on the frames in the model. I'm not going as far as bevelled and clenched joints on 1/64" thick material! This is a 1:48 scale exercise. I may be mad, but not entirely crazy.

A very methodical approach, Keith! The hull shape is a very 'easy' one, so should require very little if any plank wrangling.

A nice rendering of Verne's original!

Nice, Chuck, and theoretically foolproof!

A nice rendering of Verne's original!

Nice, Chuck, and theoretically foolproof!

Thanks, Gary!
 
I rebuilt a new version of the tow knees. These are just set in place right now. I decided to focus on the style seen in this photo:
 




Thoughts?
 
I also started laying out a draft of the paddlewheel. Here's the loose size I'm thinking of using; compare with the photo below that is my best view of the stern area.
 
 


Thoughts on all of this? 

In the absence of any plans or other evidence, I based her hull design on Bertrand, for which I did have very detailed plans:


 
These show a flat stern with just a bit of overhang; you can also see the full rudder setup. Remember that I'm building Peerless as a waterline model, so the rudders really can't be seen, except for a hint of the (skegs? is that the right word?). I toned down the rise of the stern and wheel supports a bit, but it's the same basic setup. So all you see on the model is just a hint of the stern curving inward and down, and the otherwise flat plane from port to starboard. One of the last details I'll add it a hint of rudder tops poking out; I haven't done it yet for fear of knocking them off because they'll be very small without the extra support from the part "underwater" and not modeled.
 
So to forestall the next obvious question, I plan to cut off (or not build in the first place) the bottom part of the wheel so that it sits on the display surface as if it's entering the water.

Hi Folks.
After a few weeks loitering in the shadows I decided to join the forum but not before having a read of the odd build and various comments. The subject of period ships is new to me as I predominantly build plastic or resin kits on the black art subject of aircraft, however, I never stand still for long and am always looking for new challenges. I was naturally drawn to aircraft from a young age as I live in Bomber County (Lincolnshire) but I also come from a nautical family, my Great Uncle Harry Watson, Chief Stoker, went down on HMS Hood and my Uncle served on HMS Ark Royal in the 60's and 70's. I also have a second cousin whom served.
With this in mind I thought it about time I got my sea legs so I have purchased my first wooden boat kit, and no, it is not HMS Victory😁, I have followed the sage advice of the wise owls that nest here and purchased this;

 
And after looking in the box I am glad I did, much to learn but the instructions are superb and the kit looks superb. I will not build it yet, I have a full bench but I will in the future and with the support of this superb site I am sure it will be a success.
 
Cheers
Gary

The hawse holes can be complex but if you spend a lot of time preparing and measuring it will go smoothly.   Before I begin describing my process here is a look at the contemporary model.   You can see many close up details here.
 

I started by preparing some new templates.   They are very much like the other templates but I wanted to add some other reference lines to help me more with aligning the hawse holes.   So these are the ones you want to use when you get this stage.
 

You will note a few things in that photo.  First you will see the dashed vertical lines I added that extend up to the cap rail.   These will allow you to mark the locations of the hawse holes on top of the cap rail.   To do this I cut some painters tape to the width of the hawse holes and placed it on the cap rail using the template as a guide.  The tape runs parallel to the keel across the cap rail.   
 
You will also notice how I cut the hawse holes from the template so I could use it as a stencil after taping it to the hull.   I also cut an opening to mark the location of the hawse hoods or naval hoods.  These are the plates that sit over the planking.   The template sits on top of the wales as before.  The forward edge sits against the stem.
 
I of course cut away the molding strip  on the hull before I taped the template in position.  I dont want to forget to mention that.   Then I traced the hawse holes onto the hull.   
 

On the inboard side of the hull,  I prepared another template specifically for the hawse holes.   Note the dashed lines again that extend to the cap rail.   This template was lined up with the tape I placed across the cap rail.  This will be the path I plan to drill through the hull for the hawse holes.   This was a lot of measuring and planning to come up with these templates but it all worked out well.   Just trace the hawse holes on the inboard side as well.  Note how the template is sitting on the deck which establishes the correct height...I hope.
 
I didnt take any pictures right after drilling the hawse holes.  I cant believe I forgot to do it.  But let me explain the process.  I drilled them out using progressively larger drill bits.   I drilled from both sides.   I drilled half way through from the front and then switched to inboard.  I drilled half way through until the holes met in the middle and the first small hole was clear and through.  Then I switched to a slightly larger drill bit and repeated the process.  I increased them until the hawse holes were almost full size and then I switched to a round file to clean them up and enlarge them further.   
 
THE ENTIRE time while drilling from the outboard side I used the blue tape on the top of the cap rail to guide the drill bit at the same angle.  Following the keel.   The hawse holes are almost level in height inboard and outboard with only a slight upward angle needed as you drill from the outboard side.  A very slight angle.   Not to worry if its not exact because when you dill from the inboard side to meet the outside hole it should all meet up decently.  
 
I touched up the red paint inboard and used a soft pencil to darken the insides of the hawse holes black...to represent lead or tin I suppose.
 
Next up was to add the Hawse hoods or Naval hoods on the outboard side.   These are made in two layers.  They are laser cut and on the outermost end is a laser etched detail.  This small etched detail wouldnt be difficult to carve with a sharp chisel.  But I just assume etch it onto the ends.  This means you must clean up the laser char from this "stepped" detail.  I used a small flat needle file.   It doesnt have to be perfectly clean either.  Just do the best you can.  Mine isnt perfect by any means and this little bt of char will actually accentuate the carved detail.   Look at the photo of the contemporary model to see it on the original.  The parts on the left are not yet cleaned.
 
The two layers are glued together carefully.  The circles for the hawse holes are registered together.   But a little tip....while gluing the two layers you can actually pre bend the hoods so they will stay bent and curved once the glue dries.  Its hard to see this in the photo but the one on the right is curved to almost match the hull curvature exactly.  This will make it so much easier to glue onto the hull.
 

 
Here you can see the two layered assembly glued onto the hull.  Please note that after gluing the two layers together the inside edge against the stem must be beveled.  I also cut these pieces a but longer (not by much) so you can line them up with your hawse holes drilled through the hull.   Just carefully bevel the edge a little at time until as you are test fitting it on the model it the hawse holes line up.   The holes themselves are also slightly smaller on this so you will have even more wiggle room to enlarge them after this is glued on the model.  I think they look pretty good and look quite a bit like the contemporary model.
 

Lastly...the bolster.   This piece is slightly thicker and not long enough to bend easily.  So I laser cut it on even thicker boxwood stock.   Its easier to sand the curve into the back side rather than bend it to fit on the hull.   Once the bolster sits nicely on the hull and the curve matches,   you can sand the outside to match.   This will leave the overall thickness at about 3/64".  Maybe slightly more.
 
Round off the top edges and sides but dont touch the hawse hole cut-aways just yet.   This will be done after you glue the bolsters on the model.  You will notice the oddball shape of the hawse hole cut-aways.  They dont look like half circles.   This is on purpose.   Remember the hawse holes are drilled through parallel to the keel.   So these weird shaped half holes are shaped like l=this so you can file them to the proper shape.   Use a round file to open them up to match the angle of your hawse holes through the bulwarks.  I hope that makes sense.   When initially gluing the bolster on the hull, line up the iboard side to match the profile of your hawse holes.  Just like in the photo.   Then use your file to shape them.
 

 
They will or should be opened up to look like this.  The holes were touched up and blackened with a soft pencil.
 

 

That is the trick.....faking the holes and not connecting them.
 
Yves

A very methodical approach, Keith! The hull shape is a very 'easy' one, so should require very little if any plank wrangling.

The color you show does look too intense. Even if this was what was used, it should be tinted (lightened) at scale size to look right.

She is finished.  I chose not to install the railings as I think they spoil the look and I don’t recall Verne mentioning them.  I also remade the stand using basswood and applying the card pieces onto the basswood. 

Druxey Yes - these classic yachts had beautiful lines which translates into flowing curves and gentle changes in curvature.

A very methodical approach, Keith! The hull shape is a very 'easy' one, so should require very little if any plank wrangling.