vaddoc

Wow GL, I have not been able to visit for a while but you have made good progress! Very nice joinery, nice fairing of the frames as well. Another thing you seem to have tackled with ease is the curvature of the deck beams-I struggled with this myself. Did the original boat have only one pair of stringers on the inside the frames? Vaddoc

I foresee these sanders achieving the same legend status as Paul Sellers' recommended chisel set!

Great price for the Lidl disc sander. It is a bit small but for the price unbeatable. I made a disc sander years ago with a very old, much used corded drill, some thick plywood and timber. I used a £2 regulator for the speed and made the disc from MDF. I converted an arbor I bought cheaply. I chose a diameter of 200mm and I use 120 grit that lasts for ages. Perfect functionality It died after a few years of hard continuous use, I got another cheap drill and still going strong. I also sharpen the kitchen knives there! But for the price, definitely this sander makes a lot of sense.

Bien venue Besson! Je ne pas parlez francais depuis 1986 mais ca est pas de probleme! Vraimant, ca est un forum charmant. Did my best Allan! Vaddoc

So, I did a massive amount of work and made quite a few blocks in 2 sizes. They are all fully functional with brass sheaves, they just need a coat of Tung oil and their ropes. However, a lot of this work has actually gone to waste, at least for this boat! The reason is that I thought I would need mostly double blocks. Today, I started drawing the rigging arrangements, each part individually and noting the blocks that would be needed. They are mostly single blocks and a lot of them! That means another 2-3 weeks of work on the dining room table... Another issue that I am not sure how I will overcome is that there will be an amazing number of rope ends to be tied somewhere, a cleat, belaying pin or other. Either I will need to add belaying pin rails to the shrouds (if feasible as the middle one due to the spreaders is offset) or a rail on the cabin top. I will of course also need to pepper the boat with cleats. I think the end of this journey may not be that far!

I do Bob, but my models are large and do not live in a case but are temporarily-permanently stored wherever there is space and are moved. I know, not good, in good time this will change. Also, the hull is the first to make and paint and then on it will take years to finish the rest so the hull will have a hard life tilting, scratching and bumping all over the place. I have an old model that had the hardest of lives, spent his life in shelves under direct sunlight constantly falling of its flimsy base, hull is 0.8 mm plywood with automotive primer, humbrol acrylic spray and humbrol enamel varnish on top. Still looks good! I d say Moab, just use the thinner the company offers. Cheap and much better than homemade ones or pure water.

Acrylic paint is not tough at all and needs some protective finish. Humbrol gloss varnish is great and can be brushed (on cured acrylics also) with great results but is enamel based. A few years ago I tried Valejo water based acrylic varnishes but could not make them work. At the time I also tried the Valejo polyurethane varnish which I did not like. However, I tried the newer Valejo polyurethane varnish which are different and improved and this time I had very good results with a brush. I could not find any info though whether it should be diluted and what with. I think in the end my conclusion was to use water but not too much otherwise it breaks down. Application is the same as the paint but the self levelling properties are even better than the acrylic paint! I think 2 coats 4 hours apart or something similar. I also think they claim it will not yellow over time. The matt varnish needs very thorough stirring and quick application afterwards with minimal brushing and even then the matt particles might spread unevenly leaving brush-like marks. Still, enamel varnishes are much tougher

Just to add regarding the arrangement of planks at the stem, that is being placed as high as possible. There might be a connection with the issue of the "exaggerated sheer" (I think this is the term) It is possible when designing a boat, although the sheer is fair and appropriately curved, when the actual boat is finally built, the sheer to appear flat at the bow. This is just an optical illusion due to the size and flatness of the boat and to avoid this, it is recommended to increase the curvature of the sheer at the bow, thus having an "exaggerated sheer". Maybe this is why these people suggest to push the fore end of the planks higher, to get a more pleasing run of the planks.

So, back to work on the Deben! I think I should be alright having made close to 80 shackles, but I will need also blocks. I had decided from the beginning that all blocks would be fully operational with brass pulleys. I need to make many and they take a very long time to make! I am making them pretty much as the full scale ones are made and really they are complex pieces. I ve made 40 that still need sanding to dimensions and to shape, grooves cutting, Tung oil and then the ropes attached. I think I ll need maybe another 30, huge work for something that no one will ever suspect is there! A few photos:

Apologies for the delay in replying, life went again into hyperdrive Dan, this is a lovely model! What did you use for the iron nails holding the planks together at the lapstrake? Will do, bellow is a relevant nice pic from the Deben: Now, I would ordinarily agree with you. However, the following made me think that this may not always apply: 1. Playing with the CAD, changing the height of the garboard had a massive effect on the plank shape, straightening some and making others more bent in a very unpredictable way. 2. On Youtube, there is a great series of videos on how to line off and build small boats, look under "traditional maritime skills, lining off planks (small boats)". On part No 4, the builder is commenting that the garboard seems to come up too low on the stem and he needs to change it so all the planks will be pushed up. 3. I am currently reading (very slowly!) "Lapstrake boatbuilding" by Walter J Simmons. In page 65 he writes: "...bear in mind that the whole planking job will go easier and look better if you allow the hood ends of the garboard to rise as high as possible, A narrow garboard is easier to fit, but one that is wider fore and aft will result in straighter subsequent planks and will thus make the remainder of the planking job easier" I can tell you that indeed, in the yawl, pushing the fore end of the planks higher up the stem resulted in a more pleasing run of the planks. This does not apply planking a big ship, as the garboard really needs to be kept very low at the stem to minimise crowding of the planks and the use of stealers. Only way to tell is to build the thing! All in good time... Tony this is the easiest thing to do. You just select the curved surface and you press "unroll". The computer thinks things over a tiny second and gives you your surface flat! I would not rely on CAD to get the shape of the planks, it is immensely difficult to establish it. However, this is how I calculate the wood I should need for this boat: I expect I will have 3-4 planks each side quite curved and the rest more or less straight. So each 100 mm wide sheet should give me 2 curved planks and perhaps 4 reasonably straight ones. So if I end up with 15 planks each side, I ll need 4+6 sheets and with a 50% margin for error and wood selection, 15 sheets of beech 2 mm. This is close to £60 without shipping! On another note, my computer suffered some catastrophic damage and packed up. I also managed to drop my laptop, it took a bend and I had to straighten some areas with pliers but still works just fine. I ordered a new desktop which should arrive in 2-3 weeks. I also took the opportunity to get a new monitor, chair, lamp as well as some peripherals. Although it is nice to get new toys, it takes a lot of work to set up a new computer and right now it is the last thing I wanted to do. Still, it has to be done! An opportunity to go back to the Deben which at some point needs to leave the shipyard to make room for the Yawl! Regards vaddoc

I have a single detached garage, not insulated and this is what worked for me: 1. I built from cheap wood two very heavy solid work benches. I followed the advice from this chap's video on you tube. Great benches, very cheap to make https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTxbcf9zI5o. I chose how tall, wide and long so entirely custom made to my needs. This is by far the most solid design I have come across. 2. I did not bother with insulation, I got a gas heater which heats up the space quickly. This way I do not use the limited power supply and considering the limited time I have to work and that near zero temperatures are not too often, it makes perfect financial sense. 3. I chose not to paint the brick walls but instead put a lot of lights, more than twice than what I initially thought (about 1000w fluorescent light for a space 5 x 3 m). Very important to have light coming from all directions to avoid shadows. You can never have enough light! Each has its own very unique set up but the issues above occupied much of my time and successfully I avoided the very expensive complex options

Thanks GL, It is interesting to see that the run of the planks is reasonable. The planking is not correct though and when the real boat is planked, the following changes will be needed: 1. The garboard should come higher up the bow, this will push the planks higher and maybe reduce the curvature of the planks 2. The width of the planks at the really curved areas of the hull and at the transom is far too much. This needs to be reduced and width gained at the flat areas. 3. I think 11 planks are too few, the average width is around 13 cm which is probably far too much. I suspect it will end up with 15 planks each side 4. There will be a 2 mm overlap for the lapstrake. Due to the large scale, it is possible to do the planking exactly as it would be done in the full scale boat. The challenge will be access to the keel/planks, I was thinking of using a similar jig to yours but some modification will be needed. Vaddoc

Many thanks to all for your very interesting comments! Now, I feel I may have actually managed to more or less define the shape of the planks. It has taken me overall many weeks of trial and error but this time the run of the planks looks ok. It is so much more difficult to do it with CAD, there were times that I thought of just cutting the frames out in cardboard just to be able to lay a batten! I fully admit it is a bit silly to do this on the computer but I am afraid it will be quite some time before I can cut wood and I really wanted to take it further and see the shape of the planks. Now, this is the carvel planking but the lapstrake will come out using the same lines. It is not perfect but I think it is pretty close. The largest blank needed is 57 cm, this would need either a crooked tree or a scarfed plank. Regards Vaddoc

All so very true! Fairing lines is so easy with CAD but at the same time feels very artificial and indeed, the result is a compromise and seems that the computer is making decisions on its own. Much better to use a batten! Building boats I find myself wearing two hats. One is the CAD hat, when I am trying to make all drawings perfect. Then the modellers hat, where I find challenging to even make all frames have the same height. In the Deben the tolerances between the CAD drawings and the actual result were abysmal, some frames were out of alignment by 2 mm and I did not like the lines at the bow so I let the wood sit at the angle it liked to sit and readjusted the frame to the new lines. No problem at all in the end! Indeed some degree of lofting is needed to make sure lines are reasonable close and fair but thankfully the wood has its own self-fairing properties. On a different note, I suddenly thought of another way to tackle the Yawl's planking which may work this time. I will try it when I have the time as I would like to have some idea of the shape of the planks. It will be a CAD exercise of course but I do not have any time to create actual wood dust so a good substitute for now. This is another side of things, CAD gives you the satisfaction of creating the boat although virtually. We do of course have our own CAD building section!

Many thanks for the offer Keith! Considering how slow I now work, it makes sense to get even very expensive wood orders as the cost spreads over many years. But it seems very attractive to get a plank and mill it. These would open up a whole new range of options. How do you do mill your wood, do you have a professional set up or a more scale down one for example with a proxxon or Byrnes saw?

No worries at all Bob, your advice was very well taken! I consider my hugely underpower proxxon KS 230 table saw the most dangerous tool I own.

Thanks Bob, I had not had one for some time but I do need to be extremely careful operating the table saw. What I liked about this is that it is very safe. Clearly it can cut wood very efficiently, I may play a bit with the idea.

Oh I can relate! Well Michael, I think this shows nicely why you create such masterpieces!

should be doable, probably won't spin fast enough but I ll try it!

No, just threaded a single piece of sand paper.

Not sure if it is of any use, but I just tested loading sand paper on the Dremel. It should cut/eat away brass at this thickness well in a very controlled way. May worth a try, check my video in the Dremel paper thin blade thread at the tool section.

This looked interesting so i nipped out to the garage and tested it. I cut a circular piece of 60 grit sand paper and loaded it onto the Dremel. I tried cutting pear wood, I think 3 mm and brass, I think 0.8 mm. At low speed it did not do well. At high speed the paper straightens and cuts wood very fast and cleanly. The surface of the wood that is at the grit side gets black and burned. The sand paper should last a long time but is dead easy to change. In all honesty, it seems to cut better than my proxxon table saw and is much safer as the paper just buckles and does not kick back. With brass it did not fair well, it deviates and eats the metal Turn down the volume, the video is a bit loud! I am tempted to make a jig for the Dremel, it cuts wood well and is much safer.

Looking very good GL, lovely hull! I think we both need a better camera though!😉

Such a pleasure to read your posts Michael! This yellow cedar wood looks lovely indeed. Why not use epoxy instead of PVA, this will not distort the card/thin wood and will allow lots of time for positioning.

Well, the peak halyard indeed does look a bit odd. Two ways of looking at it. Either you follow exactly what the designer had in mind, or you change the rigging to suit your needs. After all it is your boat and in real life I think during the initial fitting and much more during the life of the boat, many changes take place. I d say rig it as you like! I was looking again at your photos, I think the vividly grained wood works incredibly well at this scale! The boat is alive, the more boring woods like pear and boxwood would not achieve this I think. Lovely!