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Bob Cleek

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  1. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Jaager in Steel's Naval Architecture   
    Allan Yedlinsky - SCANTLINGS OF THE ROYAL NAVY 1719-1805
    Seawatch Books 
    is much easier to use and has much more data.  I have a
    reprint of Steel by Sim Comfort but the Yedlinsky volume is 
    easier to use -
  2. Wow!
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Tony28 in Help for blocks with hoop required.   
    Nice work! Your edges are crisp and your finishing is excellent. It appears that you are simply pushing up against the limits of what can be done with your kit at its scale. In real life, a shackle would slide on the sheet horse (metal bar) and the shackle would hold the block which would have an internal metal strop with a tab with a hole through which the shackle pin would run. In this case, the kit manufacturer has anachronistically "mixed apples and oranges." There would not have been rope-stropped blocks on a Banks schooner of Bluenose's period. You'll just have to dance with the gal ya' brought and "fake it." 
     
    Perhaps the easiest way to accomplish the task is to take a length of thread and tie it first around the block, forming the strop on the block. Tie off the "strop" with two or three half-hitches going in the same direction at the bottom of the block. (If your "one-holed" blocks are like most kit blocks, the hole will be at one end of the block. Tie your "strop knots" at the end of the block which is farthest away from the end closest to the hole so that the run of the line through the block will look correct.)  Leave the bitter end of the knotted thread free for the moment.  You will now have a block which is "stropped" by the knotted thread.
     
    Now the other end of the thread with the block attached and tie that end closely around the sheet horse with two or three half-hitches just as you did the "strop loop" previously. You will want to tie the stropped block as closely as possible to the sheet horse in order to simulate a block fastened closely to the sheet horse with a seizing. The block should not appear as if it is on a pendant attached to the block. When you tie the half hitches for the knots holding the stropped block to the sheet horse, tie as many half hitches as you need (It shouldn't be more than two or three) around the standing part of the line until they fetch up against the side of the last half hitch tied on the block strop end.  The appearance, if done correctly, will be of the stropped block attached to the sheet horse with a short series of half hitch knots spiraling up between the block and the sheet horse. The shorter this distance, the more realistic it all will appear. Use as fine a thread as you can manage, as the half hitch knots will increase the diameter of the knotted rope between the block and the sheet horse. You may wish to experiment and use two turns of your thread around the block and around the sheet horse before tying the respective half hitches. This may mimic the appearance of a single thicker strop around the block and sheet horse with the half hitches around the connection between them appearing closer to the diameter of the doubled thread visible around the block and sheet horse. Some thickened paint, shellac, or surfacing putty can be applied between the doubled thread around the block and sheet horse to mimic the appearance of a single piece of rope.  When you have fastened the block to the sheet horse in this fashion, without cutting the two bitter ends of the thread, secure the knots, and the turns around the sheet horse and the block, for that matter, with a touch of thin shellac (two pound cut, i.e., "out of the can" if using prepared canned shellac) or thinned PVA glue and allow it to dry. When the shellac or glue has dried, cut off the two bitter ends of the thread as closely to the knots as possible with a sharp scissors or hobby knife. If the shellac or glue is dry, the knots will hold. If not, you run the risk of having one of your half hitches pop loose when the thread is cut and you won't have enough free thread at the end to tie it again, with will require you to start from scratch and do it over again. 
     
    This is the technique that appears to have been used in the photo above. Note that the thickness of the thread used has created a thicker "seizing" around the throat of the "strop" between the block and the sheet horse than appears realistic. Use of a thinner thread, perhaps using the "double turn" method mentioned above, would have perhaps resulted in a thinner "throat" between the block and the sheet horse. Because the object of this exercise is to "fool the eye," the less prominent this attachment method can be, the better. What is wanted is that a viewer's eye will not be drawn to it and it will not get noticed, in which case, the viewer's brain will simply "fill in the blanks" with a correct assumption of what it thinks should be there. 
     
    If that approach isn't challenging enough at 1:100 scale, another comes to mind which, although requiring a bit more work and perhaps skill, would produce a more period-correct appearing un-stropped block. You could make up an "eye bolt" out of suitably-sized wire, drill a hole in the end of your block closest to the "sheave hole," but not so deep that it runs through the "sheave hole," (or drill the hole at an angle so you miss the "sheave hole") and cement the shank of the bent wire "eye bolt" into the wooden block body. This will simulate a period correct wooden-shelled iron-framed block. Use something that holds well, like cyanoacrylate or epoxy to glue the shank in the hole.  A faux "eye bolt" shank is best made by twisting the two ends of a length of wire tightly around a drill bit shank of the desired size and then removing the bit and cutting off the shank of twisted wire at the desired length. This results in a "spiraled" shank which will hold better than a smooth piece of wire when glued in the hole and provides an "eye" that will not bend open or need to be soldered to prevent its doing so. The drawback, however, is that the twisted shank requires drilling a larger hole to accommodate it, which may or may not be possible in a small block. Care should be taken to ensure that the eye is correctly oriented when glued into the block so that the when the block is attached to the sheet horse with a ring between them, the lead of the sheet running through the block's "sheave hole" will be fair. Once the eyebolt is firmly set into the block, its neck can be bent so that it appears to lead fair from the block, if necessary.
     
    You now have a block with an "eye" at its "top end" (closest to the drilled "sheave hole." and it is then easy to make a small ring of suitably-sized wire which will fit through the "eye" on the block and around the sheet horse bar, just as the shackle does in the prototype and the drawings.  You can then "blacken" the "iron work" with a "blackening" agent (for copper or brass wire, liver of sulphur or the equivalent proprietary product) or with black paint. This method doesn't require that it be made as unobtrusive as possible because it is more realistically detailed than the knotted method described previously. 
     
    One last point to mention is that, from an engineering standpoint, perhaps you may want to give a bit of thought to how strongly built you might want this (these?) block to sheet horse connection(s) to be. The sheet horse should be well-glued in place and, if a bent copper or brass ring is used to hold the block onto the sheet horse, that ring will be the "weak link in the chain." One of the most frequent catastrophic injuries ship models suffer is some sort of impact on the extremities of the rigging which is mechanically transferred to some structural attachment point which then breaks. You might question whether the ring connecting the block to the horse should be strong enough to handle the stress load of sudden tension from an impact that causes the sheet to yank hard on the block.  A strong connection would usually mean soldering the ends of the ring together, which would be difficult to do if the sheet horse were already installed on the model. On the other hand, if the ring's ends aren't soldered, any pulling force on the block coming from the sheet is probably going to bend the ring's ends apart and pull the ring off the sheet horse. While "all the books" say such rings should be soldered for strength and appearance, leaving the ring's ends unsoldered would actually serve to prevent greater damage to the rigging structure in the event of a mishap. Reattaching the block to the sheet horse by bending a ring back into alignment is certainly a much easier than to broken sparts and rigging line elsewhere.
  3. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Gregory in Help for blocks with hoop required.   
    Nice work! Your edges are crisp and your finishing is excellent. It appears that you are simply pushing up against the limits of what can be done with your kit at its scale. In real life, a shackle would slide on the sheet horse (metal bar) and the shackle would hold the block which would have an internal metal strop with a tab with a hole through which the shackle pin would run. In this case, the kit manufacturer has anachronistically "mixed apples and oranges." There would not have been rope-stropped blocks on a Banks schooner of Bluenose's period. You'll just have to dance with the gal ya' brought and "fake it." 
     
    Perhaps the easiest way to accomplish the task is to take a length of thread and tie it first around the block, forming the strop on the block. Tie off the "strop" with two or three half-hitches going in the same direction at the bottom of the block. (If your "one-holed" blocks are like most kit blocks, the hole will be at one end of the block. Tie your "strop knots" at the end of the block which is farthest away from the end closest to the hole so that the run of the line through the block will look correct.)  Leave the bitter end of the knotted thread free for the moment.  You will now have a block which is "stropped" by the knotted thread.
     
    Now the other end of the thread with the block attached and tie that end closely around the sheet horse with two or three half-hitches just as you did the "strop loop" previously. You will want to tie the stropped block as closely as possible to the sheet horse in order to simulate a block fastened closely to the sheet horse with a seizing. The block should not appear as if it is on a pendant attached to the block. When you tie the half hitches for the knots holding the stropped block to the sheet horse, tie as many half hitches as you need (It shouldn't be more than two or three) around the standing part of the line until they fetch up against the side of the last half hitch tied on the block strop end.  The appearance, if done correctly, will be of the stropped block attached to the sheet horse with a short series of half hitch knots spiraling up between the block and the sheet horse. The shorter this distance, the more realistic it all will appear. Use as fine a thread as you can manage, as the half hitch knots will increase the diameter of the knotted rope between the block and the sheet horse. You may wish to experiment and use two turns of your thread around the block and around the sheet horse before tying the respective half hitches. This may mimic the appearance of a single thicker strop around the block and sheet horse with the half hitches around the connection between them appearing closer to the diameter of the doubled thread visible around the block and sheet horse. Some thickened paint, shellac, or surfacing putty can be applied between the doubled thread around the block and sheet horse to mimic the appearance of a single piece of rope.  When you have fastened the block to the sheet horse in this fashion, without cutting the two bitter ends of the thread, secure the knots, and the turns around the sheet horse and the block, for that matter, with a touch of thin shellac (two pound cut, i.e., "out of the can" if using prepared canned shellac) or thinned PVA glue and allow it to dry. When the shellac or glue has dried, cut off the two bitter ends of the thread as closely to the knots as possible with a sharp scissors or hobby knife. If the shellac or glue is dry, the knots will hold. If not, you run the risk of having one of your half hitches pop loose when the thread is cut and you won't have enough free thread at the end to tie it again, with will require you to start from scratch and do it over again. 
     
    This is the technique that appears to have been used in the photo above. Note that the thickness of the thread used has created a thicker "seizing" around the throat of the "strop" between the block and the sheet horse than appears realistic. Use of a thinner thread, perhaps using the "double turn" method mentioned above, would have perhaps resulted in a thinner "throat" between the block and the sheet horse. Because the object of this exercise is to "fool the eye," the less prominent this attachment method can be, the better. What is wanted is that a viewer's eye will not be drawn to it and it will not get noticed, in which case, the viewer's brain will simply "fill in the blanks" with a correct assumption of what it thinks should be there. 
     
    If that approach isn't challenging enough at 1:100 scale, another comes to mind which, although requiring a bit more work and perhaps skill, would produce a more period-correct appearing un-stropped block. You could make up an "eye bolt" out of suitably-sized wire, drill a hole in the end of your block closest to the "sheave hole," but not so deep that it runs through the "sheave hole," (or drill the hole at an angle so you miss the "sheave hole") and cement the shank of the bent wire "eye bolt" into the wooden block body. This will simulate a period correct wooden-shelled iron-framed block. Use something that holds well, like cyanoacrylate or epoxy to glue the shank in the hole.  A faux "eye bolt" shank is best made by twisting the two ends of a length of wire tightly around a drill bit shank of the desired size and then removing the bit and cutting off the shank of twisted wire at the desired length. This results in a "spiraled" shank which will hold better than a smooth piece of wire when glued in the hole and provides an "eye" that will not bend open or need to be soldered to prevent its doing so. The drawback, however, is that the twisted shank requires drilling a larger hole to accommodate it, which may or may not be possible in a small block. Care should be taken to ensure that the eye is correctly oriented when glued into the block so that the when the block is attached to the sheet horse with a ring between them, the lead of the sheet running through the block's "sheave hole" will be fair. Once the eyebolt is firmly set into the block, its neck can be bent so that it appears to lead fair from the block, if necessary.
     
    You now have a block with an "eye" at its "top end" (closest to the drilled "sheave hole." and it is then easy to make a small ring of suitably-sized wire which will fit through the "eye" on the block and around the sheet horse bar, just as the shackle does in the prototype and the drawings.  You can then "blacken" the "iron work" with a "blackening" agent (for copper or brass wire, liver of sulphur or the equivalent proprietary product) or with black paint. This method doesn't require that it be made as unobtrusive as possible because it is more realistically detailed than the knotted method described previously. 
     
    One last point to mention is that, from an engineering standpoint, perhaps you may want to give a bit of thought to how strongly built you might want this (these?) block to sheet horse connection(s) to be. The sheet horse should be well-glued in place and, if a bent copper or brass ring is used to hold the block onto the sheet horse, that ring will be the "weak link in the chain." One of the most frequent catastrophic injuries ship models suffer is some sort of impact on the extremities of the rigging which is mechanically transferred to some structural attachment point which then breaks. You might question whether the ring connecting the block to the horse should be strong enough to handle the stress load of sudden tension from an impact that causes the sheet to yank hard on the block.  A strong connection would usually mean soldering the ends of the ring together, which would be difficult to do if the sheet horse were already installed on the model. On the other hand, if the ring's ends aren't soldered, any pulling force on the block coming from the sheet is probably going to bend the ring's ends apart and pull the ring off the sheet horse. While "all the books" say such rings should be soldered for strength and appearance, leaving the ring's ends unsoldered would actually serve to prevent greater damage to the rigging structure in the event of a mishap. Reattaching the block to the sheet horse by bending a ring back into alignment is certainly a much easier than to broken sparts and rigging line elsewhere.
  4. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to wefalck in Help for blocks with hoop required.   
    If you don't dare to take on splicing, you can also just make ring with an overhand-knot, put the block in and a pin for keeping the eye open at the other end. You then start the seizing with a series of half-hitches until you reached the desired length of the seizing. Then you pull on the loose ends of the strop to shorten it to the desired length. Fix the seizing with a dab of varnish or paint and trim the loose ends of the strop and the seizing respectively.
     
    On a real ship the stropping would have been done in situ, but on a model it would be better to do the stropping off the boat with the ring slipped over the traveller and only then to install the traveller.
     
  5. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to allanyed in Help for blocks with hoop required.   
    I would find a more reliable source which is based on actual practice such as Chapelle et al to confirm or correct their interpretations.  For example the line runs under the horse,  which would never work, rather than to the block.   
     
    Allan
  6. Thanks!
    Bob Cleek reacted to glbarlow in Byrnes Thickness Sander   
    Jim 
     
    Sadly Jim Byrnes passed away due to an illness. His family is working out if and how they can move forward. They do have stock of the new model sander but aren’t taking other orders
  7. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Tony28 in Stropping Blocks   
    There are various ways of doing it. The problem, of course, is that full-sized blocks are stropped with strops that are laid up from a single strand of rope laid back on itself to form a continuous loop.
     
    A seizing is then worked around a thimble which tightens the strop around the block and the thimble. (The thimble in the photo is incorrect. It is a thimble made for modern wire cable, not fiber cordage. I got the photo off of google images, so...)
     
    You can lay up your own strops if you are really anal about it, but that's very difficult at small scales. I used to say "impossible," but from what I've seen of some people's work on this forum, I don't use that word when speaking about ship modeling anymore! Frankly, I've always found even making strops for full-size blocks a difficult bit of work, primarily because the modern synthetic rope used for it modernly does not hold it's shape or "twist" the way hemp rope does.
     
    Others have their favorite methods of depicting a stropped blocks for models. Some books recommend gluing the line together on the block, generally at the bottom, opposite the thimble or wetting the end of a tail with some glue and then whipping it, for tailed blocks. I've never liked that option so much because I don't trust glue to hold the kinds of stresses rigging lines are sometimes subject to. I try to devise a way to knot the line so as to achieve a real "strop" that holds the block as in full-size rigging practice. I tie a loop the size of the strop I need, and then place the knot (usually a square knot) at the point of the juncture between the thimble (or the loop in the strop, if a thimble isn't being used,) and then tie the customary racking seizing on top of the knot so that it is hidden from view. Whether the strop is served depends on the scale. If it's to be served, it has to be done before it is placed over the block and thimble. The connecting knot can be hidden in the service, obviously, and then concealed by the seizing. I then apply a clear shellac to the cordage. The shellac sold in paint and hardware stores is "two pound cut," (the thickness of the mixture ratio of alcohol and shellac flakes) and this is generally very thin, so it wicks in easily with just a touch of a paintbrush. There's no need to mask the block, if you are careful applying the shellac. It will be invisible when dry and will "cement" the strop and seizing very well. (Some swear by CA ("super glue") for this application. It's just my preference, but I avoid using CA for anything unless absolutely necessary. I follow the USN/Mystic Seaport archival materials standards to the greatest extent possible. Shellac is soluble in alcohol and can be washed off and undone, unlike some other adhesives. 
     
    See post #1572 and following on page 53 of archjofo's scratch-build log for La Creole (1827) if you want to learn how to make blocks that will knock your lights out. He's working at a quarter inch to the foot. Note how he actually splices his strops at the bottom, leaving the splice unserved so it appears as a "pudding" at the bottom of the block, which is perfectly accurate. The puddings were used to protect the strop where it was exposed to the most chafe and impacts.
     
     

     
     
     
     
     
  8. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Gregory in Gutermann Polyester thread for making rope.   
    Steel is correct and, although you appear to have misunderstood Steel, your color instincts are relatively accurate, it appears you are confusing Steel's "tarred yarn" with your own concept of "tarred rope." Natural fiber yarns used to traditionally make ordinary cordage for use in the marine environment were and are always "tarred" by being placed in a bath of thinned pine tar to impart a relatively thin coating of tar to the individual strands before they are laid up into rope. The thin tar coating on the yarns serves the important purpose of improving the water-resistance of the yarns, the greatest part of which are "inside the lay" and not as much exposed to the drying air. This light tar coating on the yarns increases the rope's resistance to decay in the wet marine environment, and to a lesser degree, the tar's "tackiness" helps to bind the laid-up rope together better. The greater the amount of tar applied, the more water-resistant the cordage will be, so, as Steel notes, "Yarn for cables requires more tar than for hawser-laid ropes." because cables spend a lot of their time underwater or stowed wet in the cable lockers, so the greater amount of tar provides a greater amount of water-resistance and hence resistance to strength-weakening decay. 
     
    Most top-quality fiber for traditional marine rope making, such as sisal, flax, or hemp, is naturally quite white, or almost nearly so, whether naturally or from being bleached. The addition of the thin pine tar coating to the near-white yarns produces the characteristic "honey/straw" color of brand-new fiber rope (as well as its agreeable pine tar aroma.)  In use, however, hawser-laid cordage (i.e., three-strand running rigging) will weather in the marine environment to the color of a light grey-tan. In other words, as you correctly expected, running rigging is "rope colored."
     
    On the other hand, all served standing rigging, served footropes, and any other rope requiring chafe protection, (as well as deadeye lanyards after the standing rigging had been stretched well and the lanyards more or less permanently set up,) was kept coated with routine applications of "slush," a paint made of pine tar, linseed oil, and lampblack, or the equivalent, depending on whatever was available, such as pine tar, varnish or paint, and lampblack.  ("Slush" is sailor slang for any thick liquid residue. The word was also used to identify the thick sludge of fat and salt that remained at "the bottom of the barrel" of salted meat aboard ship. This residue was saved and sold to renderers upon making port with the proceeds then used to buy something for the crew's benefit... hence the term "slush fund.") As "slush" was often made up of leftover paint and varnish in the bosun's locker, lampblack was used to uniformly turn the concoction into a black paint.  "Slushing" was the last step in the standard water-proofing technique known collectively as the "service" of a rope which kept the rope dry and protected it from being weakened by chafing.  The technique was to first worm lengths of "small stuff," (appropriately sized laid cord) by tightly wrapping them laid in the larger rope's "contlines," (the proper nautical term here Bowdlerized for the benefit of delicate ears), then heavily applying thick pine tar to the wormed rope and parceling it by wrapping strips of canvas, bandage-fashion, spirally around the wormed and tarred rope, then, serving the wormed, parceled, and tarred rope by very tightly spirally wrapping a covering of tarred marline or other appropriately sized small laid line around the wormed, tarred, and parceled rope. (When steel cable came into use as standing rigging, the method of its service was exactly the same as with rope, although the thick tar applied before parceling was often replaced with a thick coating of white lead paste as a rust-preventing bedding compound.)
     
    So, the color of running rigging depends upon how the modeler wishes to portray the vessel. Is it to be portrayed as "brand spanking new" or as she looked once the "new car smell had worn off?" If the latter, taking appropriate color compensation for "scale viewing distance into consideration," running rigging would be a somewhat "grey/tan" for running rigging, or what might be called a "used rope color." As dirt tended to collect in the contlines of rope and the more prominently exposed outermost surface of the rope tends to bleach some in the sun, used rope on a sailing vessel will end up showing a darker color in its "contlines" than on the raised outer face of its strands. A particularly detail-oriented modeler may want to experiment with various stain-washing techniques to see if they can duplicate the contrasting light and dark areas of a warn piece of rope exposed to the marine environment.
     
    Any rigging that is served (or was in the prototype but was omitted in the model) should be colored flat black, not because of the amount of tar on it, but because the "slush" used to coat it was jet black. 
     
    Now, the standing rigging of small craft was generally not served, in which case it would presumably appear the same as running rigging, so in any given instance with small craft, some research may be necessary to identify whether the standing rigging of a specific small craft was or wasn't served.
     
    A picture is worth a thousand words department: 
     
    Having worked over the years on a few movies as a technical advisor and "boat wrangler" (responsible for the boats used), I always have a practiced eye open for the "production values" of any movie within my areas of expertise. More often than not, the job of a technical advisor is to tug on the set decorator or director's sleeve and say, "Excuse me, but that detail is incorrect" and not argue with the response, "Nobody'll notice it and we're on a budget, you know." Period naval movies are my favorite hunting grounds for catching directors "driving on an artistic license." It's a rare "swashbuckler" that doesn't have a few glaring rigging anachronisms with which to find fault, among the more frequent being synthetic cordage on period ships. (Note the Dacron line in the Hornblower TV mini-series example below.) I'd heard the scuttlebutt before its premiere that an incredible amount of effort was being put into ensuring authenticity in the Russell Crowe movie Master and Commander - The Far Side of the World and when I saw it, I was very impressed with their success in that effort. If you want to know what running rigging really looked like during the Age of Sail, they got it exactly right. (See: Master and Commander photo below.) I'm still not too sure what's supposed to be happening with that block and it's stropping in the foreground. I think it's supposed to be part of some shot-away top hamper that's fallen to the deck. 
     

     

     
  9. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from tkay11 in Gutermann Polyester thread for making rope.   
    Steel is correct and, although you appear to have misunderstood Steel, your color instincts are relatively accurate, it appears you are confusing Steel's "tarred yarn" with your own concept of "tarred rope." Natural fiber yarns used to traditionally make ordinary cordage for use in the marine environment were and are always "tarred" by being placed in a bath of thinned pine tar to impart a relatively thin coating of tar to the individual strands before they are laid up into rope. The thin tar coating on the yarns serves the important purpose of improving the water-resistance of the yarns, the greatest part of which are "inside the lay" and not as much exposed to the drying air. This light tar coating on the yarns increases the rope's resistance to decay in the wet marine environment, and to a lesser degree, the tar's "tackiness" helps to bind the laid-up rope together better. The greater the amount of tar applied, the more water-resistant the cordage will be, so, as Steel notes, "Yarn for cables requires more tar than for hawser-laid ropes." because cables spend a lot of their time underwater or stowed wet in the cable lockers, so the greater amount of tar provides a greater amount of water-resistance and hence resistance to strength-weakening decay. 
     
    Most top-quality fiber for traditional marine rope making, such as sisal, flax, or hemp, is naturally quite white, or almost nearly so, whether naturally or from being bleached. The addition of the thin pine tar coating to the near-white yarns produces the characteristic "honey/straw" color of brand-new fiber rope (as well as its agreeable pine tar aroma.)  In use, however, hawser-laid cordage (i.e., three-strand running rigging) will weather in the marine environment to the color of a light grey-tan. In other words, as you correctly expected, running rigging is "rope colored."
     
    On the other hand, all served standing rigging, served footropes, and any other rope requiring chafe protection, (as well as deadeye lanyards after the standing rigging had been stretched well and the lanyards more or less permanently set up,) was kept coated with routine applications of "slush," a paint made of pine tar, linseed oil, and lampblack, or the equivalent, depending on whatever was available, such as pine tar, varnish or paint, and lampblack.  ("Slush" is sailor slang for any thick liquid residue. The word was also used to identify the thick sludge of fat and salt that remained at "the bottom of the barrel" of salted meat aboard ship. This residue was saved and sold to renderers upon making port with the proceeds then used to buy something for the crew's benefit... hence the term "slush fund.") As "slush" was often made up of leftover paint and varnish in the bosun's locker, lampblack was used to uniformly turn the concoction into a black paint.  "Slushing" was the last step in the standard water-proofing technique known collectively as the "service" of a rope which kept the rope dry and protected it from being weakened by chafing.  The technique was to first worm lengths of "small stuff," (appropriately sized laid cord) by tightly wrapping them laid in the larger rope's "contlines," (the proper nautical term here Bowdlerized for the benefit of delicate ears), then heavily applying thick pine tar to the wormed rope and parceling it by wrapping strips of canvas, bandage-fashion, spirally around the wormed and tarred rope, then, serving the wormed, parceled, and tarred rope by very tightly spirally wrapping a covering of tarred marline or other appropriately sized small laid line around the wormed, tarred, and parceled rope. (When steel cable came into use as standing rigging, the method of its service was exactly the same as with rope, although the thick tar applied before parceling was often replaced with a thick coating of white lead paste as a rust-preventing bedding compound.)
     
    So, the color of running rigging depends upon how the modeler wishes to portray the vessel. Is it to be portrayed as "brand spanking new" or as she looked once the "new car smell had worn off?" If the latter, taking appropriate color compensation for "scale viewing distance into consideration," running rigging would be a somewhat "grey/tan" for running rigging, or what might be called a "used rope color." As dirt tended to collect in the contlines of rope and the more prominently exposed outermost surface of the rope tends to bleach some in the sun, used rope on a sailing vessel will end up showing a darker color in its "contlines" than on the raised outer face of its strands. A particularly detail-oriented modeler may want to experiment with various stain-washing techniques to see if they can duplicate the contrasting light and dark areas of a warn piece of rope exposed to the marine environment.
     
    Any rigging that is served (or was in the prototype but was omitted in the model) should be colored flat black, not because of the amount of tar on it, but because the "slush" used to coat it was jet black. 
     
    Now, the standing rigging of small craft was generally not served, in which case it would presumably appear the same as running rigging, so in any given instance with small craft, some research may be necessary to identify whether the standing rigging of a specific small craft was or wasn't served.
     
    A picture is worth a thousand words department: 
     
    Having worked over the years on a few movies as a technical advisor and "boat wrangler" (responsible for the boats used), I always have a practiced eye open for the "production values" of any movie within my areas of expertise. More often than not, the job of a technical advisor is to tug on the set decorator or director's sleeve and say, "Excuse me, but that detail is incorrect" and not argue with the response, "Nobody'll notice it and we're on a budget, you know." Period naval movies are my favorite hunting grounds for catching directors "driving on an artistic license." It's a rare "swashbuckler" that doesn't have a few glaring rigging anachronisms with which to find fault, among the more frequent being synthetic cordage on period ships. (Note the Dacron line in the Hornblower TV mini-series example below.) I'd heard the scuttlebutt before its premiere that an incredible amount of effort was being put into ensuring authenticity in the Russell Crowe movie Master and Commander - The Far Side of the World and when I saw it, I was very impressed with their success in that effort. If you want to know what running rigging really looked like during the Age of Sail, they got it exactly right. (See: Master and Commander photo below.) I'm still not too sure what's supposed to be happening with that block and it's stropping in the foreground. I think it's supposed to be part of some shot-away top hamper that's fallen to the deck. 
     

     

     
  10. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Michael P in Gutermann Polyester thread for making rope.   
    A fascinating discussion. Goodness, Chuck, that’s impressive rope.
    I used to make model ships in the 1950’s, and found that cotton was hopeless, as if the atmosphere was at all damp, as it often was in Oxford, it stretched (much like old fashioned gut strings on tennis rackets, or those on the French crossbows at Crécy). What I used instead was terylene (a form of polyester, I think) thread, made by Sylko. There seems to be no problem about it lasting - it’s as good as it was over sixty years ago. I took to making models again in the last few years, and have been using Gutermann extra fine polyester thread. This seems good, but time will tell. I’ve not had real problems with unravelling; I use balsa cement to stiffen the ends of ropes, which makes it possible to thread deadeyes and blocks. It’s harder to make coils with it than the Sylko thread was. I’d not come across Gutermann Mara, which I think may be thicker than I need for small models. As for how to make ropes, fortunately, despite some family opposition, I kept over all these years a little machine I made from Meccano, so have not needed to buy a modern ropewalk, which in any case is currently unavailable from Cornwall Boats.
    Now, the colour of rigging. This appears to be somewhat controversial, with the fashion being for very pale, or even white, running rigging. The argument is presumably that this was not tarred. There’s an intriguing contrast, to judge by the photos on the web, between the black tarred rope used on HMS Trincomalee, and the pale ropes that feature on HMS Victory. Both are owned by the National Museum of the Royal Navy. Contemporary paintings are not much use, as any colour of rigging will appear dark against sky or sails. Models in the National Maritime Museum are difficult, as it’s often not clear from the photos on the web whether the rigging is original. I note that the model of HMS Ipswich (1730), which does have original rigging, looks to have it uniformly dark.Now, I read in Steel, writing in the 1790s, that ‘Yarn for cables requires more tar than for hawser-laid ropes. For running and standing rigging, the less tar the better, provided the thread is well covered.' This suggests that untarred rope was not used, and I’d have thought the right answer is to use very dark brown or even black for standing rigging, and a mid-brown for running rigging. Or perhaps just go with what seems best.
  11. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from dvm27 in Remington Industries   
    Good question. As I noted with respect to using the saw instead of some other cutting method, "This shape of the cut ends becomes less of an issue as the wire becomes thinner, of course, but still makes a difference even with very fine wire because it promotes a neater solder joint which will require less finish cleanup of the soldered joints, if not eliminate that task entirely."
     
    Diamond coated saw blades are available in four grits, but they have a relatively wide kerf. The narrowest is 1.2mm. They are used for cutting glass, ceramics, stone, and resin composites. Conventional jewelers' saw blades generally are readily available in sizes 8/0 which is 0.15mm (0.0063") thick by 0.33mm (0.0126") wide with 34 teeth per cm (84 TPI) through #8 which is 0.50mm (0.0197") thick by 1.14mm (0.0440") wide with 28 TPI.  As with jig and coping saw blades, jeweler's saw blades come in a wide variety of teeth styles and blade hardness. You can buy blades with rounded back edges to facilitate making turning cuts and blades with skip-teeth and blades that are lubricated and blades that are unlubricated. (Blade lubrication is required.) There are even "mono-tooth" jeweler's saw blades which present a continuous spiraled cutting edge to the work rather than a toothed edge.
     
    While I have never done "research testing" on sawing very fine wire, it would seem to me to be little different than sawing thicker gauge wire with the same technique. Actually, the rule for jeweler's saw blades is three teeth spanning thickness of the material cut. As you noted, if the wire to be cut was smaller than the blade spacing, when you tried to saw it, the wire would fall between the teeth points and just roll back and forth as you tried to saw it, but in this application, the wire is wound round and round a drill bit shaft mandrel and each turn is laid up against the previous one so that a continuous "service" (or wrapping) of wire around the mandrel would be presented to the saw blade. In this case, I believe it would be the length of the wire service on the mandrel and not the thickness of each individual turn of the wire that would be critical. Of course, as I said before, the finer the wire gets, the less critical is the "cleanness" of the end cuts to the soldering results.
     
    An alternative to the jeweler's saw for cutting rings on a mandrel is a thin ceramic abrasive disk on a rotary tool. This method is used, I believe, when rings are cut from the wire-wound mandrels in production ring-making machines. It may take a hand steadier than mine, but it can be done. 

    With respect to wrapping the wire around a drill bit shaft employed as a mandrel, there is a specific jeweler's tool designed for use in wrapping wire that is known as a "jump ring mandrel." (The small rings we encounter in ship modeling re properly called "jump rings" in jeweler's nomenclature.) These mandrels come in sets of various diameter and also in individual stepped-diameter versions. These mandrels have a handle and the mandrel shaft is usually cut with a notch along its length and sometimes a notch at its end, the latter to hold the end of the wire fixed while the wire is wrapped around the mandrel and the former to permit sawing the wire in the manner, I've described above without cutting into the mandrel shaft itself. 
    (See: Search: 27 results found for "jump ring mandrels" — Otto Frei)  For the truly tool-addicted modeler, there is even a pricey Foredom flex-shaft rotary tool powered machine for the automated production of jump rings. (See: Durston 1309 The Complete Jump Ringer | OttoFrei.com — Otto Frei)
     
     

     
    I'll add a bit of general information about using the jeweler's saw in case some forum readers are unfamiliar with the use of this saw which I consider a near-essential ship modeling tool. I've found it interesting that I've seen very little discussion of jeweler's saws (sometimes called "piercing saws") on this forum. Perhaps that's because they look very much like ordinary coping saws and folks who don't know the difference never notice them. Working with any sort of metal sheet in modeling sizes is going to require one of these saws and their productive use does demand something of a learning curve. They are a specific tool that is not duplicated by other tools. It may look like a coping saw, and one might correctly think it is a sort of scroll saw, but not realize a powered scroll saw cannot do what this hand saw can do (at least not without breaking a huge number of blades along the way!)  A "jeweler's saw" is not the same as a "coping saw." The mechanism for holding the blade ends and for tensioning the blade are different, precluding the use of one type of saw for the other type of blade and vice versa. The jeweler's saw demands a very rigid frame which is designed to produce very fine controlled cuts. The coping saw is intended for cutting wood and no provision is made for its cutting metal. On the other hand, the jeweler's saw is primarily intended for cutting metal, but will also cut wood and plastics.
     
    Below are pictures of a traditional "old school" adjustable jeweler's saw frame, sometimes called a "German style frame," (top photo) and three more modern non-adjustable-frame style jeweler's saws (second and third photos.) A quality adjustable-frame saw will set you back about $25, but the other modern ones, made of "space age" metals, are priced beginning at around $100. (There are lots of really cheap adjustable-frame saws out there. Don't waste your money on these. The frame members must be inflexible... like a quarter of an inch square and of good steel.) The saw frames come in different sizes to accommodate different use requirements with deeper frames for making cuts deeper in the center of a large work piece. Whichever style frame one might buy is purely a matter of personal preference and wallet size, although. as always, buying the best you can afford is the cheapest purchase in the end. I prefer the old-school style of saw not only because I don't have any need to appreciate the advantages, if any, of the whiz-bang modern models, and am cheap, but also because the adjustable frame saw, in which the blade is tensioned by resting the  top extension bar end on the bench top at the edge of the bench and pulling down on the handle and then tightening the bar adjusting set screw knob, will permit you to mount shorter broken lengths of saw blade in the saw frame which affords a considerable savings in blade expense. These extremely fine light blades break easily and often, particularly until the user acquires some finesse in using them.
     
    For those who might want to learn more about the use of this very handy and relatively inexpensive tool, this YouTube video is a good primer on sawing with a jeweler's saw: 
     

    Grobet Swiss Made Jewelers Sawframes-Adjustable or Fixed Frame — Otto Frei
     

    Knew Concepts Jewelers Precision Aluminum Sawframes with Cam Tension & — Otto Frei
     

    Amazon.com: Pepe Tools Haymaker Jewelers Saw Frame by Lion Punch Forge, Made in USA (Green) : Tools & Home Improvement
     
      Ultimate Guide To The Jewelers Saw (And Jewelers Saw Blades) - Rock Seeker
     
    Jewelers-Saw-Blade-Sizes-Sheet1.pdf
  12. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Archi in Shellac Cut Rate for Our Hobby   
    They are and will be found in the paint department. That said, I have not seen the full range of grit sizes in the DIY warehouse stores that will be found in an auto painting supply store. The pads in the big box stores are for general prepping for house painting and are fairly coarse for model finishing work. The grit size you want for modeling is much finer than that, down around the 300 to 600 sandpaper grit range. The abrasive pads are available in auto painting supply stores down to ultra-fine grit sizes suitable for "rubbing out" auto body finish defects. Most towns of any size will have an auto painting supply store nearby, or even a DIY auto parts store, that will carry a range of different grit grade abrasive pads. You might also stop by a local auto body and fender repair shop and ask if they have some they will sell you. Like most abrasives, I'm sure there's a big price break on purchasing larger quantities. The pads last quite well, so it's not like you need to buy more than a few at a time in a small range of grit sizes (or in just one grit size, depending on your uses...) if they are only going be used for modeling work. If all else fails, you can always make a donation to Mr. Bezos' retirement savings account and buy them from Amazon. Beware of the peg-rack packaging prices in retail stores, though. There's a huge difference in price between the "civilian" retail prices and the "commercial" lot-packaged prices, as well as between the "Scotch" brand pads, which were once all that were available, and the wide range of generic brands available now.
     
    Scotch peg-rack package of one pad: $8.88
    Amazon.com: 3M Paint & Body Scuff Pad, 03193, 6 in x 9 in, 1 Per Pack : Everything Else

     
    Tonmp 10 Pack 4.5 x 10 Inch Hand Pads Coarse Medium Fine Superfine 5 Different Specifications Assortment General Purpose Scouring Pad: $8.99 ($.89 per pad)
    Amazon.com: Tonmp 10 Pack 4.5 x 10 Inch Hand Pads Coarse Medium Fine Superfine 5 Different Specifications Assortment General Purpose Scouring Pad Ideal for Garden Tools and Grills,Automotive Body Tools : Health & Household
     

  13. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Shellac Cut Rate for Our Hobby   
    It sounds like your shellac sealer coat is working exactly as it should, so don't feel bad at all. It appears that you aren't happy with your shellac job because you are expecting it to do something it's not able to do if you expected it to look like a "pure tung oil finish." (Which is more a product of the finish coating manufacturers than it is the seeds of the tung tree, but that's a story for another night.) 
     
    It appears the use of shellac as a finish requires some clarification. Shellac can be used as a finish and is, most famously in the "French polish" method of traditional fine furniture finishing. Shellac can also be used as a finish by building up successive coats, much as one would with a varnish, and then wet-rubbing them down with very fine abrasive powders or simply attempting to apply thick shellac as one would a varnish, which is very difficult to do without encountering brush strokes, given the speed with which alcohol evaporates. These now antiquated finishing methods have been widely replaced by modern finish coating materials over the years, beginning with sprayed clear lacquers and more recently polyurethanes and epoxy finish coatings. The classic shellac finishing techniques are only seen in very fine custom furniture and in refinishing antique pieces these days. 
     
    When we talk about shellac as often used in ship modeling, we are generally talking aboout using shellac as a sealer, rather than a finish. This is to say that many of us use shellac on our models precisely because it's "almost a non-finish." That's how it's supposed to look. A coat or two of thinned shellac soaks into the surface of the wood and seals the pores, but does not build up a thick coating that would serve as a finish coat with any of the depth needed to accomplish what one would consider a finish on the wood. A very thin varnish application will, also bring out the figuring in figured woods, but enhancing the figuring of wood is decidedly not something one would want to do on a ship model and figured woods are avoided wherever possible in any event. What a thin coat of shellac does as a finish on a ship model is to mimic the appearance of bare wood while invisibly protecting bare wood from exposure to the elements, dirt, and greasy finger stains. (Heavier cuts of shellac are also used as an adhesive and medium cut shellac is particularly useful in cementing knots in rigging work and stiffening lines to create realistic catenary shapes.) 
     
    When used as a sealer shellac on a model used to portray bare wood is theoretically a "finish," but not one intended to be seen. When shellac is used solely as a sealer, it is exceptionally effective beneath subsequent finish coats of paint or varnish. I know of no finish coating which will not adhere well to shellac. It is compatible with everything. Shellac is a particularly effective feature if subsequent coatings are water-based because water will soak into the pores of most wood species and, to one extent or another, "raising the grain" of the wood as the water-wet wood expands, which makes achieving a perfectly smooth finish virtually impossible. Shellac does not raise the grain when applied to bare wood and when dried may be lightly sanded without creating the "fuzzy surface" that results when sanding many softwoods, such as basswood, commonly found in ship model kits. While no coating is entirely impermeable to moisture, shellac is recognized as one of the most impermeable coatings we have available.  Shellac's ability to slow the exchange of moisture between the wood in a model and the ambient humidity of the environment in which the model is kept is often a valuable contribution to the life of a wooden model which otherwise must endure the shrinking and swelling, however microscopic, of its separate parts as the moisture content of its wood fluctuates, a process with can, over time, weaken glue bonds and cause the structural integrity of the model to deteriorate. 
     
    Now, if one desires a "finish" on their model, I would not advise attempting to achieve a "finish" on a ship model using shellac simply because the intricacy of the parts virtually preclude the rubbing and polishing required to achieve a traditional "hand rubbed" shellac finish and because the thickness of the shellac coating required would, in any event, operate to obliterate the fine detail on the model, a fault commonly seen in models built by modelers inexperienced in the nuances of finishing miniatures.  If your model is now shellacked, and providing you haven't sanded off the coat you applied (another mistake often made and easily corrected by applying another,) you've properly prepared and sealed your surface for the application of the finish coat of your choice. That choice is entirely up to you and will depend upon what you want the finished product to look like. If you are seeking to portray a compelling impression of reality in miniature, a "furniture finish" would not be appropriate and, in fact, the "bare wood" appearance of shellac alone would serve the purpose well. If on the other hand, you want to finish the bare wood on your model as if it were a piece of furniture without regard for the actual opaque paint colors applied to the prototype, an artistic effect which seems in vogue to some degree these days, you will have to either hand-rub wax over the varnish sealer, a traditional furniture finishing technique that is best left for flat table tops than any modeling application, or use a varnish or polyurethane coating. These are quite subtly varied in appearance, and you will have to experiment to determine which product creates the finish appearance you like best. A lot of modelers who prefer the "all wood look" on their models use what's called "wipe-on poly," This product is apparently not available in Europe, whether this because of VOC content regulations or some other reason, I don't know, but "wipe-on poly" as marketed in the U.S. is simply thinned clear polyurethane coating, produced in a range of stain tints. As it says on the can, it may just wiped on with a soft cloth and it will yield a matte finish of whatever depth one wishes to apply. 
  14. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Shellac Cut Rate for Our Hobby   
    A lot of commercial finishers, particularly in the auto painting business, are now using Scotch-Brite abrasive pads instead of steel wood or superfine abrasive paper. These are the same things you see on the back of dishwashing sponges, except that they are available in a range of ten abrasive grits. One big advantage they have, which perhaps isn't all that big a deal in modeling, is that they can be used wet and hung to dry and be used over and over again. The Scotch-Brite ones are color-coded as to the grit size. There are now other brands besides the ones made by Scotch that are available at a lower price point. They are carried by any auto paint supply store and a lot of paint stores.
     
    As many know, "satin" varnishes are just gloss varnish with chalk added to it. "Satin varnish" is marketed to mimic a true hand-rubbed finish achieved with rottenstone and pumice, which can be a lot of work. Now, a good "hand-rubbed" varnish finish can be achieved with a lot less "elbow grease" using these plastic abrasive pads. 
     
     
  15. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in How to paint hard to reach areas   
    If you are using a traditional thin wash of linseed oil, solvent (turpentine?), and a dash of color from pine tar or raw umber tubed artists' oil paint, I think you will find the result very pleasing. Capillary action is exactly the ticket. You'll probably find also that the slightly greater amount of wash that finds its way into the corners, joints, and seams and perhaps around the fastenings, will produce a slightly darker color that will add interest and realism to the finished product. It's a really nice model. In my opinion, we don't see enough small working craft modeled. Most modelers seem more interested in building huge historic ships of the line than humble workboats with just as much historic importance.  
  16. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in How to paint hard to reach areas   
    That's some beautiful work! Even at large scale (1:12 ?), real clinched-nail fastened clinker planking is quite an accomplishment. I'm looking forward to your posting the finished model! 
     
    Ditto to what everybody else said. I will only add that it's unclear whether you intend to "paint" the entire model with opaque paint or plan to leave a fair amount of the interior finished "bright." (Meaning that the wood would be finished with some sort of clear coating such as shellac, varnish or an oil. I've done my share of refinishing traditionally-built full-sized boats of that type and, as you probably know, even "in real life" that sort of finishing job is a real challenge to get the less accessible areas covered. It's for this reason that most clinker planked traditionally framed boats often have their interiors "washed" with what we call "boat soup" here in the U.S. (i.e., a half and half mixture of linseed oil and turpentine, with a dash of pine tar) instead of being coated with glossy varnish or paint. Wiping on a flat (matte) sealer coat of a clear oil-based finish is a lot less of a chore as it rarely requires more than a wash-down for preparation and the "soup" can be wiped on with a sponge or rag without worrying about brush strokes and cutting-in where opaque paint edge meets the "bare" wood. (When refinishing the oiled wood, which is required periodically, a thin clear coating can actually be wiped on right over the edge of a painted area and then wiped off the paint before it dries without any masking required at all.) 
     
    For a model, gloss finishes are generally avoided, so you might want to consider applying some sort of thinned clear "wipe on" finish on the inboard areas, just as is done with the full-size prototypes. Thin clear (sometimes called "white" or "bleached") shellac (e.g. "2 or 3 pound cut"...the consistency of water) or even well-thinned varnish, linseed oil, or clear polyurethane coating could be applied relatively easily using cotton tipped swabs or, better still, those foam tipped applicator sticks they sell for applying cosmetics. The foam swabs will carry more liquid than the cotton ones and not pose a risk of leaving bits of cotton on the surface. A well-thinned coating material can even be "flooded" into the nooks and crannies and the excess that collects in the corners wiped or "blotted" up once the coating has soaked into the bare wood. You might even consider pouring a considerable amount into the bilges and just sloshing it around and then draining off the surplus and wiping up the excess on the surfaces thereafter.
     
    Keep in mind that I'm not saying I've done it this way before on a model, so experimentation is required before you do anything to that beautiful workmanship which cannot be undone, but I've done enough finishing over the years to think it should work fine. I'm not suggesting that you try to put a high gloss varnish finish on it in this manner way at all. This is simply an application method for applying a sealing coat that will bring up the color of the wood and protect it from stains and such. This approach is best done before any painting with an opaque coating is applied to other portions of the model, but you may have to "dance with the girl your brought" and avoid staining what you've already painted with masking tape. Once it dries, a thin application of any good oil-based clear coating should be easy to cover with your opaque paint where the edges of the two meet. Keep in mind, however, that care should be taken to be sure that the different coating materials you use are compatible. Not all are. Here, again, experimentation before application to the model is imperative. Always test coating combinations on a scrap of the same surface material you intend to use them on and let them dry well before proceeding to apply them on the finished work. This is particularly true of any of the more "synthetic" coatings such as the polyurethanes, epoxies, and acrylics or anything advertised as an "eco-friendly" replacement for traditional coatings. These modern coatings, as good as many of them are, often contain exotic chemicals that don't get along with each other and can produce unexpectedly disappointing, if not disastrous, results when they are applied on top of each other.
     
    On the other hand, if it is your intention to paint the entire inboard area of the boat with an opaque paint, a "wipe on" solution for the hard-to-reach places won't work, in which case, I wish you much luck and may God have mercy on your soul!  
  17. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Kevin Kenny in HMS Thorn by Kevin Kenny - 1:48 scale - Swan-class - David Antscherl practium   
    Coffee wood grain is invisible 


  18. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Kevin Kenny in HMS Thorn by Kevin Kenny - 1:48 scale - Swan-class - David Antscherl practium   
    Finial piece for November.


  19. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Kevin Kenny in HMS Thorn by Kevin Kenny - 1:48 scale - Swan-class - David Antscherl practium   
    My ship modeling is taking some time off as i start learning how to carve following the course in Annapolis put on by Greg Herbert and David Antscherl.








  20. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Shellac Cut Rate for Our Hobby   
    They are and will be found in the paint department. That said, I have not seen the full range of grit sizes in the DIY warehouse stores that will be found in an auto painting supply store. The pads in the big box stores are for general prepping for house painting and are fairly coarse for model finishing work. The grit size you want for modeling is much finer than that, down around the 300 to 600 sandpaper grit range. The abrasive pads are available in auto painting supply stores down to ultra-fine grit sizes suitable for "rubbing out" auto body finish defects. Most towns of any size will have an auto painting supply store nearby, or even a DIY auto parts store, that will carry a range of different grit grade abrasive pads. You might also stop by a local auto body and fender repair shop and ask if they have some they will sell you. Like most abrasives, I'm sure there's a big price break on purchasing larger quantities. The pads last quite well, so it's not like you need to buy more than a few at a time in a small range of grit sizes (or in just one grit size, depending on your uses...) if they are only going be used for modeling work. If all else fails, you can always make a donation to Mr. Bezos' retirement savings account and buy them from Amazon. Beware of the peg-rack packaging prices in retail stores, though. There's a huge difference in price between the "civilian" retail prices and the "commercial" lot-packaged prices, as well as between the "Scotch" brand pads, which were once all that were available, and the wide range of generic brands available now.
     
    Scotch peg-rack package of one pad: $8.88
    Amazon.com: 3M Paint & Body Scuff Pad, 03193, 6 in x 9 in, 1 Per Pack : Everything Else

     
    Tonmp 10 Pack 4.5 x 10 Inch Hand Pads Coarse Medium Fine Superfine 5 Different Specifications Assortment General Purpose Scouring Pad: $8.99 ($.89 per pad)
    Amazon.com: Tonmp 10 Pack 4.5 x 10 Inch Hand Pads Coarse Medium Fine Superfine 5 Different Specifications Assortment General Purpose Scouring Pad Ideal for Garden Tools and Grills,Automotive Body Tools : Health & Household
     

  21. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Shellac Cut Rate for Our Hobby   
    A lot of commercial finishers, particularly in the auto painting business, are now using Scotch-Brite abrasive pads instead of steel wood or superfine abrasive paper. These are the same things you see on the back of dishwashing sponges, except that they are available in a range of ten abrasive grits. One big advantage they have, which perhaps isn't all that big a deal in modeling, is that they can be used wet and hung to dry and be used over and over again. The Scotch-Brite ones are color-coded as to the grit size. There are now other brands besides the ones made by Scotch that are available at a lower price point. They are carried by any auto paint supply store and a lot of paint stores.
     
    As many know, "satin" varnishes are just gloss varnish with chalk added to it. "Satin varnish" is marketed to mimic a true hand-rubbed finish achieved with rottenstone and pumice, which can be a lot of work. Now, a good "hand-rubbed" varnish finish can be achieved with a lot less "elbow grease" using these plastic abrasive pads. 
     
     
  22. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to RossR in Shellac Cut Rate for Our Hobby   
    Thanks for the info.  I also found ones sold by Rockler Woodworking that are labeled with steel wool grade equivalents.  
  23. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Scottish Guy in New members - be aware!   
    I am unaware of and have no interest in the particulars of the above-referenced transgressions, but I do wish to address a related matter concerning the "twenty-five post sales rule" which you explain has occasioned this post. 
     
    It is not uncommon for the heirs of both MSW members and "outlaw modelers" (to use a biker term) to join MSW for the purpose of posting an inquiry regarding how they should best dispose of the ship modeling effects of their recently deceased ship modeling relative. By the same token, it is likely that most of the MSW membership, particularly those "of a certain age," with varying levels of intensity are concerned about the disposition of our ship models, research library, and shop tools and materials once we "shuffle off this mortal coil." It is one thing to have subjected most of our "dearly beloveds" to the outrages imposed by cohabiting with a ship modeler's equipage during our lifetimes, but to leave it for them to dispose of prudently after we are gone seems particularly unkind.
     
    The models built by a late ship modeler may be of some sentimental value to his heirs, though never to the degree the modeler imagined as the models were being built.  Other parts of a late ship modeler's detritus, however, may be of considerable value monetarily, although of limited marketability only to a relatively small niche group of ship modeling hobbyists. It is difficult to know what happens to a deceased modeler's shop tools and materials when the modeler's estate is distributed. Maybe some "big stuff" is sold at an estate or "garage" sale, or the heirs simply distribute it in kind, but it's not generally encountered thereafter in any form identifiable as belonging to a modeler. On the other hand, we do see large numbers of unbuilt kits and research library books which apparently seem to find their way to "pickers" and "flippers" in the resale market. The used book wholesalers buy up for below market value that which they know they can sell for a high premium on eBay and similar sites. Regrettably, from a modeler's perspective, financial advantage is taken both of the modelers' heirs who receive much less than the full value of what was left to them at one end of the transaction and advantage taken of the ship modelers who must purchase these used research volumes at often-inflated online auction prices at the other end.   It is in this fashion large ship modeling research libraries that have taken the previous owner decades to acquire, often at very substantial expense, are bought cheaply, broken up, and the books sold piecemeal because the trade considers this the most profitable way to move merchandise. (And no disrespect is directed to used book dealers who are some of my favorite tradespeople, but if "middleman markups" can be avoided, so be it.) For the reasons previously mentioned, we'll never know the cost to the hobby of breaking up deceased ship modelers' workshops, but surely, the economics of the used tool market is no different than the used book market: "buy cheap and sell dear."  Neither will we ever know how many cords of prized modeling wood stock have been used for firewood by those who knew not what they did! 
     
    Although it is true that some ship modelers' modeling effects are distributed through the auspices of their local ship modeling club, in the "information age" the reality is that local clubs are fewer and farther between than they once were and the likelihood that a club is sufficiently large to provide a viable "customer base" for the marketing of a modeler's estate is not as great as it may have once been. For these reasons, it's not at all uncommon that a deceased ship modeler's heirs or estate administrator has no idea what to do with "his ship modeling stuff."
     
    Often, when ship modeler's estate liquidation inquiries come MSW's way, they are in the form of a first post by a new member. This is to be expected because anyone who doesn't know what to do with a ship modeler's models, books, and tools and materials isn't likely to be a ship modeler themselves at all and so not a previous MSW member. And, of course, this is where they run into the "twenty-five post sales rule" that often terminates any further exchanges with them beyond a polite suggestion to try to donate the models to a local library or yacht club or sell it all on eBay.  While the "twenty-five post sales rule" serves the sound purpose of preventing unwanted (and possibly untrustworthy) commercial vendors from advertising on MSW without paying sponsorship advertising charges and limiting the use of the "Buying and Selling" forum section to genuine forum participants, in the case of ship modelers' estate sales, it operates to the disadvantage of the MSW membership and the heirs of serious ship modelers because it causes the estate to pay more to sell the property and ship modelers more to buy it. 
     
    I propose that the Administrators consider making an exception to the "twenty-five post sales rule" in the case of deceased ship modelers' estate sales. This exception would, on a case-by-case basis, waive the rule in the case of a deceased modeler's heir, heirs, or estate agent, who wishes to offer for disposition to the MSW membership ship modeling related items from a deceased modeler's estate.  Additionally, I propose that MSW could establish a policy that MSW members could dependably advise their future heirs that their models, books, tools, and materials could be disposed of through such an MSW "Buy and Sell" "Estate Sale Provision" if they wished, thereby providing the membership with a valuable benefit to assist their survivors in disposing of their modeling detritus fairly and at a reasonable return when they "join the Choir Invisible" and providing their heirs with the benefit of disposing of their modeling gear without having to pay the sales commissions charged by sites such as eBay.  It might even be arranged that a local MSW member might make themselves available to personally inventory the deceased modeler's modeling things and advise a deceased modeler's heir or estate representative regarding their sale. Surely, making such forum resources available to our heirs and estate administrators would provide peace of mind to many of us who hope that their modeling hobby will not continue to be as cursed by our "significant others" after we are gone as it may be now while we're still here!  It would also provide MSW with the additional competitive edge in the "internet membership sweepstakes" as a tangible membership benefit that cannot be underestimated.
     
    Some may express concern that to the extent MSW enables the sale of used modeling items, it negatively impacts the interests of its ship modeling retailer sponsors. While it may be true in theory that if someone buys an unbuilt ship model kit second hand from a ship modeler's widow, that's one ship model kit that isn't going to be sold by a ship model kit retailer. However, some retailer already sold it once, so it is not in any way unfair to the retailers if their previously purchased products are resold on the second-hand market. In fact, in the instance of hobby products, it's to the retailers' benefit that their unbuilt models are resold because they can then expect to sell other products to that same modeler, who often may be just coming into the hobby, and who will be a customer for years to come.   
     
    Anyway, that's just my two cents' worth and I suppose advice is worth what you pay for it. I'd just hate to see some other ship modeling forum think of the same thing and beat MSW to it.
     
     
     
     
  24. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from wefalck in Shellac Cut Rate for Our Hobby   
    A lot of commercial finishers, particularly in the auto painting business, are now using Scotch-Brite abrasive pads instead of steel wood or superfine abrasive paper. These are the same things you see on the back of dishwashing sponges, except that they are available in a range of ten abrasive grits. One big advantage they have, which perhaps isn't all that big a deal in modeling, is that they can be used wet and hung to dry and be used over and over again. The Scotch-Brite ones are color-coded as to the grit size. There are now other brands besides the ones made by Scotch that are available at a lower price point. They are carried by any auto paint supply store and a lot of paint stores.
     
    As many know, "satin" varnishes are just gloss varnish with chalk added to it. "Satin varnish" is marketed to mimic a true hand-rubbed finish achieved with rottenstone and pumice, which can be a lot of work. Now, a good "hand-rubbed" varnish finish can be achieved with a lot less "elbow grease" using these plastic abrasive pads. 
     
     
  25. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to rcweir in Shellac Cut Rate for Our Hobby   
    I was taught to use 1/2 lb cut as a wash coat and sealer.    It raises the hairs so they can be lightly sanded off, and it's thin enough that you can use any topcoat over it.
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