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Just a head's up for people like me that have been looking for it for some time. Google Books now has a copy of Steel's Elements and Practice of Naval Architecture available. I don't have a link as I stumbled on it during lunch at work the other day. However, I found it easily with an advanced search. It does not have the plates of ship plans but seems to be otherwise complete. In particular it has the tables of scantlings and body data for all the various sizes of ships.

 

Hoss

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7 minutes ago, smatsik said:

Just a head's up for people like me that have been looking for it for some time. Google Books now has a copy of Steel's Elements and Practice of Naval Architecture available. I don't have a link as I stumbled on it during lunch at work the other day. However, I found it easily with an advanced search. It does not have the plates of ship plans but seems to be otherwise complete. In particular it has the tables of scantlings and body data for all the various sizes of ships.

 

Hoss

 

Very nice find!  Here is the link (note it is the 1812 edition)

 

Steel, David. 1812. The Elements and Practice of Naval Architecture; Or: A Treatise on Ship-Building, Theoretical and Practical, on the Best Principles Established in Great Britain. With Copious Tables of Dimensions, &c. Illustrated with a Series of Thirty-Nine Large Draughts, ... Steel and Company. https://books.google.com/books?id=TWsmw-QqvmAC
 
 

Wayne

Neither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.
Epictetus

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

Hi all,

 

New to the forum. I have a copy of the 3rd edition of Steel's Elements and Practice of Naval Architecture dated 1822 that I borrowed and copied from a major library. They actually sent it thru the mail and it was so fragile and worn I was terrifed to even open it.  Anyway it is almost identical to the 1805 version with the exception af an appendix on "Constructing the Royal and Mercantile Navies" by John Knowles. It is different from the 2nd edition dated 1812 in that it does not include a reference to the 39th draught on the "fitting of the stroreroom between the gun deck and Orlop". Does anyone have a copy of this 39th draught they'd be willing to share? I have been unable to find the 1812 edition on sale anywhere that also includes this 39th draught. Any help is appreciated.

 

Dan Kosko

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Allan Yedlinsky - SCANTLINGS OF THE ROYAL NAVY 1719-1805

Seawatch Books 

is much easier to use and has much more data.  I have a

reprint of Steel by Sim Comfort but the Yedlinsky volume is 

easier to use -

NRG member 45 years

 

Current:  

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner -  framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner -  timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835  ship - timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

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Dan,

I was commenting on the book. I had not seen this topic until you revived it  Anyway, I checked and my reprint is of the 1805 edition

and Plate 38 is the last in the Plates supplement volume.

NRG member 45 years

 

Current:  

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner -  framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner -  timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835  ship - timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

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The issue of what constitutes the Steel reprints is confusing and complicated.  In Nautical Research Journal Vol 52 #4, pages 213 to 220 is an article by Loyd M. Mahoney that makes a very extensive comparison.  It has too many comments and cannot be easily taken out of context.  The caveat is to use primary sources as much as possible, but good reprints cost far less and if carefully reprinted are valuable to us for the information.

 

Regard plate 39, I have it in my reprint (Ed. W. Sweetman, reprinted 1983 from the 1932 edition) of the 1974 original.  This was 'arranged, with an introduction, by Claude S. Gill'.  Plate 39 shows images of 5 sails - jib, mizzen, fore, main, and foresail.  (The fore and main are sprit sails.)   The obverse shows plate 38 with 6 sails - sky scrapers, settee, lateen, sliding gunter, shoulder of mutton and lug sail.  

 

Here are digital photos of the 2 plates - the first is 38, the second is 39.  The quality is fair as the book images are fair.      Hope this helps.           Duff

SAM_2928.JPG

SAM_2929.JPG

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Duff,

 

Thx very much for the info but I think you grabbed the wrong book. The Draught # 39 that I am referring to is in Steels "Naval Architecture", not his "Elements of Mastmaking, Sailmaking and Rigging". I apologize if my text was confusing. The draught #39 I am referencing would be a very large print approximately 24"x30" and shows "fitting of the stroreroom between the gun deck and Orlop".  I have the Sweetman edition you show and the mast and Spar diagrams in the back pocket are absolutely wonderful. I am SUPER interested in how they constructed "made" masts and would love to see a video of one or some 3 dimensional diagrams that help show better the scarfing and how the various pieces butt and fit together. The Steel diagrams are wonderfully detailed but I still have a problem getting my head around how the various head and ends of the various pieces fit together, especially for masts made of 7 pieces or more. I think its one of the areas that are totally missing from the hobby, obviously because at our scale it would be almost impossible to model correctly.

 

For any others interested in this topic ("Made" masts and spars), two of the best references I have found on the subject are "The Masting of American Merchant Sail in the 1850's" by William Crothers and "A Treatise on Masting Ships and Mast Making" by John Fincham. Crothers has some of the best explanations  I've seen on made masts consisting of anywhere from 5 to 16 "sticks". Fincham duplicates alot of Steel's info but does add some interesting narrative of his own.  These two volumes along with Steel's pretty much cover all there is to know about "made" masts and spars.

 

Thx again for the info

 

Dan

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Now it makes sense, Dan.  Unfortunately I do not own the 'Naval Architecture' book.  Hopefully, you will find the image.

 

Mast makers were the highest paid builders in the shipyard, just look at how complicated made masts were.  It would be interesting to see a model of a lower mast but with so many other worthwhile projects to do, who would have the time to make one?

 

Keep building and above all, have fun.                        Duff

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Um, the reason why you are getting no response to your request is that there is no Plate 39! In my edition of Naval Architecture of 1805, at least, there are only 38 plates. Perhaps the reference is either wrong or refers to a different plate number, edition or book.

Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series  http://trafalgar.tv

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Not sure if this helps, but here is the cover for the 1812 edition -

 

steel1812.thumb.jpg.5e9413030dffdb12d922674b7669d728.jpg

 

Note that there are 39 draughts claimed on the title page.

 

The on-line (pdf) version does not include any draughts, but does offer the following TOC listing the draughts.

 

5956ef7fa701e_Steel1812TOC.thumb.jpg.e06d9ab4c6958aa0b0d7334f5ec20924.jpg

   
   
   
   
   
   
     
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

Wayne

Neither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.
Epictetus

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  • 2 years later...
  • 3 years later...

While I do like a well-produced reprint, what Giggle does with digitization of rare books (in ANY field) often borders on the criminal as they often do not scan the folded plates, and I could very well imaginDo you need to reset your password?e the separate volume of the tipped-in plates of Steel's Nav Arch and  seeing them scanning the blank pages between and not the plates themselves. And there is a reason why the plates are there: illustrations! I had been looking for this 2 vol set for years as there was (once) an online version of 1805, but it disappeared, so I bought the original, along with Hardingham's Acoomplish'd Ship-Wright (1705) as the bookseller offered to sell the older for a few hundred off, and when you get a like new for a 300-year-old book at a discount, buy it! The point I had about Giggle not scanning what it should is best shewn (for me and IMHO) is Pierre Bouguer's 'Traité du navire, de sa construction, et de ses mouvemens' (Theory or Treatise of the ship, its construction, and its movements - the first URL), one of the very first treatments and analysis of sailing vessels from a physical perspective. And the rare full-color scan (often archive.org has the unprocessed jp2 files in color if the final is black and white only and you need to check accuracy) has no plates! WAAH! SO! Off to bnf.fr and Gallica! only to find: black and white scans, but at least SOMEONE has them. BTW: If anyone needs the plates for Chapman's Arch Nav Merc: digitaltmuseum.se has them and they are ALL in color! And black and white version also exists. And Steel's Elements of Rigging and Seamanship et al is at the second URL with medium resolution scans. Royal Collection Trust has the full 24 MB scans but they are pricey and nut they have you sign an Official Secrets Act form... ; )

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=gGZX6oxZ1-UC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://maritime.org/doc/steel/index.php

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The google book scanning project began with two major US. universities, Harvard and the University of Michigan agreeing to digitize their library collections for public use.  Other large libraries have probably joined since.  Michigan’s collection is particularly important since their College of Engineering includes an important Department of Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering.

 

This project was probably staffed by students paid with financial aid money, not faculty with a deep love of the subject matter.  Much scanning would, therefore, been done more or less on “autopilot” without stopping to unfold drawings or to adjust scanning equipment.  I have several reprinted books published by the University of Michigan Press and although they are much better done than the many of the reprints, they are still missing all or part of some fold out pages.

 

Roger

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A cheaper source for a hard copy of some of Steel’s plates, if you can obtain a copy, is ‘Rees’s Naval Architecture 1819-20’ you may be able to locate one online.  This is a compendium work abstracted from Rees’s cyclopedia which was issued over the course of the first 2 decades of the 19th Century, it abstracts all the naval architectural works from a wider serialised publication.  The fold out drawings are the same Steel drawings which points to Steel’s successors being the contributors to this work.

 

It has all the Steel plans for a 74-Gun Ship of the Line, and the profiles only for a 38-Gun Frigate, an East Indiaman, and a Royal Yatch, I’d say the scale is approximately 1:96, so not as large as Steel.

 

My copy is a 1970 reprint for which I paid £30 last year.

 

Gary

 

 

8733BAFC-0879-4FD9-AFB5-0F66DEB4BA6C.jpeg

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I would suspect that the plates are not being scanned to protect them.  Unfolding them could cause damage to the paper of these old books.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

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  • 8 months later...

I just accidentally stumbled upon a different scan of Steel's "Naval Architecture" on archive.org

https://archive.org/details/elementspractice00stee/page/106/mode/2up

 

It is not a Google scan(!) and claims to be the print version of 1822. Unfortunately still no signs of the corresponding plates.

Of interest might also be the link to the "Phillips Library at the Peabody Essex Museum" one can find on the page above.

 

Hartmuth

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  • 1 month later...

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