Jean-Pierre

while excellent kit manufacturers announce kits that never seem to come on the market (Caldercraft HMS Surprise, Amati Revenge), one tends to think about the costs involved with new designs.
 
On the other hand, they could easily score with updates of their existing kits, and Jotika's Mary Rose certainly would deserve the treatment.  I think not only the foredeck could be modified, but I suspect when I look at pictures of the time, that the rear decks too should be significantly higher.  And then there is the colouring that makes ships of that period such desirable modelling subjects, and which is rather absent from the original Jotika offering (flags, painting scheme...).  
 
I suppose this could all be scratch built with the Jotika kit as a base, but that would be a tricky business without plans.

while excellent kit manufacturers announce kits that never seem to come on the market (Caldercraft HMS Surprise, Amati Revenge), one tends to think about the costs involved with new designs.
 
On the other hand, they could easily score with updates of their existing kits, and Jotika's Mary Rose certainly would deserve the treatment.  I think not only the foredeck could be modified, but I suspect when I look at pictures of the time, that the rear decks too should be significantly higher.  And then there is the colouring that makes ships of that period such desirable modelling subjects, and which is rather absent from the original Jotika offering (flags, painting scheme...).  
 
I suppose this could all be scratch built with the Jotika kit as a base, but that would be a tricky business without plans.

Looks like a very interesting project by a lesser known manufacturer.  The quality looks fine , doesn't it?
 
Happy building and thanks for sharing your pics.

Looks like an interesting subject.  MLay I make a little suggestion?  It would be fine, especially for the lesser known ship types/model kits, to start with some picture of the box art, so that we can have an idea of what your project will strive to?  Just a suggestion, and keep sending your pics.
 
Happy modelling.
 
JP

Aren't those planks glued to each other side by side?  If they are, I think you can hold them at the same level by holding each plank next to the formeer one ...with a cloth peg, provided the planks have previously been tapered, beveled, and if necessary bent sideways.

Isn't the Fly coming with metal gun carriages, which make the addition of accurate gun rigguing almost impossible?  If so, that would for me be reason enough to choose for Pegasus.
 
JP
 
Note: the various build logs on this site are a tremendous opportunity to have a good insight into these two excellent kits.

I just paid a visit to the Euromodel site.  Really excellent: site, excellent models, and a very open minded company to show what can be done with their kits, and last but not least, the extra explanations readily available on their site.
 
Drawbacks for Euromodel kits are:
-there is no Victory in their range
-there is neither a Bounty or an Endeavour or a Cutty Sark
-some parts of their kits seem -strangely enough- rather rude (Ex; their thick anchors and pinrails)
-some of their smaller kits, like the Derflinger or the Hanseatic Kogge, do not quite reach the high level of their larger models, but then they can be improved, of course.
 
I am definitely putting this brand on my wish list!

Let me add a last word.  It should be said that the Caldercraft kit is by far more recent than the Euromodel Royal William.  Keith Julier made a review of the RW in the first issue of his "Period Ship Handbook, which I found in the 70's in Londen.
 
I would certainly go for the Royal William for A simple reason: there are dozens of kits of Victory, and more to come, and I am sure, many thousands of builds have been or are being made of her.  Nothing wrong with that, but if you want to make a model that stands out of the crowd, then the choice is Royal William.
 
And even if I've never built one of these kits, I know that indeed their metal decoration parts are way better than what you see in other Italian kits.  Only a few details aask for some refining like anchors and pinrails, but then this is indeed a very unimportant detail.
 
Happy modelling
 
JP
 
P.S.  an unexperienced modeller could find it frustrating to see so many details on the plans that are not included in the package, but I'm sure all the exterior detail is included.

Let me add a last word.  It should be said that the Caldercraft kit is by far more recent than the Euromodel Royal William.  Keith Julier made a review of the RW in the first issue of his "Period Ship Handbook, which I found in the 70's in Londen.
 
I would certainly go for the Royal William for A simple reason: there are dozens of kits of Victory, and more to come, and I am sure, many thousands of builds have been or are being made of her.  Nothing wrong with that, but if you want to make a model that stands out of the crowd, then the choice is Royal William.
 
And even if I've never built one of these kits, I know that indeed their metal decoration parts are way better than what you see in other Italian kits.  Only a few details aask for some refining like anchors and pinrails, but then this is indeed a very unimportant detail.
 
Happy modelling
 
JP
 
P.S.  an unexperienced modeller could find it frustrating to see so many details on the plans that are not included in the package, but I'm sure all the exterior detail is included.

My congratulations for this excellent build, which is by far the best Santa Maria build I've seen so far.
 
I have myself since quite a bit of time been interested in the Colombus ships, and have been very impressed by the approach by Wolfram zu Mondfeld, which matches most of your own research by the way.  And I am pleased to see that you made her with a round "bum", a feature that has been omitted in all kits, with the exception of the plastic kits (Revell, Heller, Imaï) which are all based on the Guillen Y Tato reconstruction.  But this ship had a particularly small draught and indeed would have been a very bad sailing ship.  This reconstruction was moored for a long period of time in front of the Naval Museum of Barcelona, and when I last spotted her in the 1980's I think, she was being transformed to add a forecastle, which the original Guillen Y Tato model (and any of the plastic kits) did miss.
 
Now there is one point on which I still do not agree with most of the authors and that is the rake of the fore mast on carracks. Virtually ALL drawings or paintings of the peariod show 3 absolutely vertical masts.  Only on one painting from the early 1500's did I see a forward raking mast as shown on all models.  But the Santa Maria was built around 1450 if I remember well!  Now I know that even the best researchers tend to think that evidence should match their conclusions i.o. the contrary, but still...
As an example of this, take the Mataro ship, now in Rotterdam.  The large model show a very wide and comparatively short model.  I have inspected the original quite thoroughly, and noticed that the model is very well detailed indeed, so it must have been built with loving care.  But researchers claim that it was built out of proportion and would be unstearable with only one mast.  Now on the oldest photograph of this model that I saw, shsa had three masts.  Then on later pictures she had lost her fore mast, and now she has lost her mizzen as well.  Of course I do not pretend to know better than the people who made those statements or who made those changes, but I personally prefer to believe what I see than what people tell me I should see.
 
So I think I would build a

Alistair, I do hope that some day, you will restart your excellent build.
 
Indeed, the plank nipper is simple as fast to use (no soaking, no drying), it is cheap and you cannot get burnt by using it.  The only issue is convex shapes, as can be seen at the stern, or on the inner bulwark on the fore deck.  Now on this model, I took the risk, and after some careful sanding, filling, varnishing, the grooves of the nipper can hardly be seen, I dare say.
 
I forgot to mention that while doing the upper part of the second planking, I felt iut necessary to do the inner bulwarks.
 
Inner bulwarks
The original vessel was built as cheaply as possible, and therefore were single skinned.  Sergal suggests to make the inner planking with the same planks as the second planking which would have made a triple skinned vessel at that level.  Of course, no one would notice, but the overall thickness of the bulwarks would be too much: indeed, a single skinned vessel would most surely show the ends of frames, and I wanted this feature on my model.  So I used for the inner bulwark layer the battens left over from the deck, and added planks 3x1mm to simulate the ribs.  Everything was painted a nice green colour, but later on, a forum member mentioned that the bulwarks were indeed painted black, or grey, or left dark wood.  So I later repainted the whole area black.
 
Here are the following pics of the second planking:

















 
So that s how the project looks like now.  Present job is to add the garboard strakes or whatever they are named, then a second layer tinting varnish will be applied to the hull, then a layer of matt varnish, as the hull is way too glossy for my taste.
 
And then...Mmmmm: the ornaments, window frames, gunport and rudder hinges.

Alistair, I do hope that some day, you will restart your excellent build.
 
Indeed, the plank nipper is simple as fast to use (no soaking, no drying), it is cheap and you cannot get burnt by using it.  The only issue is convex shapes, as can be seen at the stern, or on the inner bulwark on the fore deck.  Now on this model, I took the risk, and after some careful sanding, filling, varnishing, the grooves of the nipper can hardly be seen, I dare say.
 
I forgot to mention that while doing the upper part of the second planking, I felt iut necessary to do the inner bulwarks.
 
Inner bulwarks
The original vessel was built as cheaply as possible, and therefore were single skinned.  Sergal suggests to make the inner planking with the same planks as the second planking which would have made a triple skinned vessel at that level.  Of course, no one would notice, but the overall thickness of the bulwarks would be too much: indeed, a single skinned vessel would most surely show the ends of frames, and I wanted this feature on my model.  So I used for the inner bulwark layer the battens left over from the deck, and added planks 3x1mm to simulate the ribs.  Everything was painted a nice green colour, but later on, a forum member mentioned that the bulwarks were indeed painted black, or grey, or left dark wood.  So I later repainted the whole area black.
 
Here are the following pics of the second planking:

















 
So that s how the project looks like now.  Present job is to add the garboard strakes or whatever they are named, then a second layer tinting varnish will be applied to the hull, then a layer of matt varnish, as the hull is way too glossy for my taste.
 
And then...Mmmmm: the ornaments, window frames, gunport and rudder hinges.

Alistair, I do hope that some day, you will restart your excellent build.
 
Indeed, the plank nipper is simple as fast to use (no soaking, no drying), it is cheap and you cannot get burnt by using it.  The only issue is convex shapes, as can be seen at the stern, or on the inner bulwark on the fore deck.  Now on this model, I took the risk, and after some careful sanding, filling, varnishing, the grooves of the nipper can hardly be seen, I dare say.
 
I forgot to mention that while doing the upper part of the second planking, I felt iut necessary to do the inner bulwarks.
 
Inner bulwarks
The original vessel was built as cheaply as possible, and therefore were single skinned.  Sergal suggests to make the inner planking with the same planks as the second planking which would have made a triple skinned vessel at that level.  Of course, no one would notice, but the overall thickness of the bulwarks would be too much: indeed, a single skinned vessel would most surely show the ends of frames, and I wanted this feature on my model.  So I used for the inner bulwark layer the battens left over from the deck, and added planks 3x1mm to simulate the ribs.  Everything was painted a nice green colour, but later on, a forum member mentioned that the bulwarks were indeed painted black, or grey, or left dark wood.  So I later repainted the whole area black.
 
Here are the following pics of the second planking:

















 
So that s how the project looks like now.  Present job is to add the garboard strakes or whatever they are named, then a second layer tinting varnish will be applied to the hull, then a layer of matt varnish, as the hull is way too glossy for my taste.
 
And then...Mmmmm: the ornaments, window frames, gunport and rudder hinges.

I had started some build log in the former edition of this forum, and for a number of reasons I did not rewrite it in the new version.  Some of the reasons (excuses):
- A lot of work involved
- Not familiar with the new procedures to insert pics
- Long term inactivity on the project
- Moderate interest from other members…
 
I have now restarted the build and will re-post some of the previously sent pictures, if I manage to tackle the pictures insertion.  Anyway this is the model as it looks now. 

Any critical or better, constructive meaning is more than welcome, bearing in mind that not a lot can be changed to what is already done.
 
Question.  I want to give the ship a name.  For a number of reasons I will explain later, this will be “The Pole Star” or rather in Dutch “De Poolster”.  Problem is that Dutch spelling of the 17th century is not something I am familiar with, so the name could also have been written Poolsterre or stern or sterne.  Any idea from the Dutch colleagues?

I had started some build log in the former edition of this forum, and for a number of reasons I did not rewrite it in the new version.  Some of the reasons (excuses):
- A lot of work involved
- Not familiar with the new procedures to insert pics
- Long term inactivity on the project
- Moderate interest from other members…
 
I have now restarted the build and will re-post some of the previously sent pictures, if I manage to tackle the pictures insertion.  Anyway this is the model as it looks now. 

Any critical or better, constructive meaning is more than welcome, bearing in mind that not a lot can be changed to what is already done.
 
Question.  I want to give the ship a name.  For a number of reasons I will explain later, this will be “The Pole Star” or rather in Dutch “De Poolster”.  Problem is that Dutch spelling of the 17th century is not something I am familiar with, so the name could also have been written Poolsterre or stern or sterne.  Any idea from the Dutch colleagues?

I suppose you don't want the false keel to be apparent on the finished model, and would like to cover it up with veneer.  I would make a rabbet groove so that the first planking would be flush wiuth the false keel.  I would also sand down the rear part of the false keel so that it would be thinner at the edge, and thinner in its lower part that at its top?  I would finally, as said cover with the second planking.  This is what I did with my Dutch Whaler from the Sergal kit, and it looks good (to me, at least
 
JP

This looks morfe like a (very friendly) chat room rather than a build log.
 
So am I right to think that Sjors is facing some major difficulty with his chain plates?  He thinks that the nice thing to do is unglue them from the hull and placing them higher up?  But he fears that this would leave a rather obvious scar on the hull.
 
So am I right to think that the real problem is that the shrouds would not run freely from the plates to the mast top?  If that is the case, wouldn't it be feasable to just glue a strip on the chain plate, just to make it larger and keep the shrouds away from the hull?
 
Maybe I am completely wrong, but this idea came up as I am just facing the opposite problem on my model (Dutch Whaler), wher the chain plates are too wide to my taste, and too high on the hull.  Luckily nothing is glued yet in my case.
 
I hope I helped to bring this build log a little on target
 
JP

Tss tss.. you forgot the tea cups and the cookies.
 
Superb!

This is a text that was published by Gerald Spalgo on the former forum.  He is one of the very best "weatherers" I know, next to an excellent model builder.
 
Weathering With Pastels:

I still haven’t got this all figured out yet, but I thought I’d share what I have learned so far so anyone interested can have a place to start from.

I’m going to repeat something that I’ve said before, to start this out. Ship Modeling is just an ongoing learning process that one has to be persistent with. You can't learn any other way, than to just do it. You are your on best teacher, and critic. No amount of reading will give you the same type of know-how that first hand experience will give you. I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you have an idea or if there is a technique that you see some one else using that you would really like to try, then try it. I know ship model kits are expensive and no one wants to miss them up, but it's just wood, its forgiving to mistakes and it can be replaced if need be. After all you had no idea, just like me, how to even build a ship model until we tried it. So know that we know or are at least learning, it's time to up the skills needed to build even better models, and failures & successes will come, but hey , that's the fun in it. If your not having fun at it anymore, then it has become a job instead of a hobby. Making mistakes is not something that I'm afraid of, cause I know for a fact that I'm going to make them, but when I put a picture on this forum or in the gallery I want it to look the best that I'm capable of doing. Once you learn this, the better you will allow yourself to be.


The pastels that I’m using right now are Earth Tone-Soft Pastels. There are many shades of colors that can be used. I do not have all of them yet, but I will later on. There are also weathering powders that could be used, but I haven’t tried them so I don’t know how well they will work yet. These powders can be bought through Micro-Mark, and are called Doc O’Brien’s Weathering Powders. I also use three old paintbrushes to apply it with. Two of the brushes are a size 3, 1 soft & 1 stiff; the other is a small 3/0 size brush. Plus a soft-bristled toothbrush and a 1/8” round deer-foot paintbrush (for spots to small for the toothbrush. As far as the clear coat that I use, it is “Krylon’s” Clear Matte Finish. It works very well for this.

First off, try to imagine what something would truly look like if you were standing right there next to it. Now keep in mind how old these ships are. Some of you will have an advantage in this, as you have actually been aboard a ship or two. The rest of us will have to rely on photos and imagination. My deck on the Charles Morgan was first stained with Drift-Wood Stain and allowed to dry, 2 light coats, and then lightly steel-wooled. I used a medium shade of brown to cover the whole deck, then brushed it out with the toothbrush until it was even through out. I then used a shade that is almost orange and applied it down the middle length of each plank; then again I used the toothbrush and lightly blended the two together. Careful, blend only enough to get a smooth contrasting flow from one color to the next, too much and it will disappear into one color. Then I used a dark shade of brown and applied it to all the edges (of everything), and blended this the same way. I then sprayed two light coats of the matte finish on the surface to keep it from smudging. Now as I add more structures and pieces to the deck I continue to add the dark brown pastel to the edges of them. When finished I will need to give everything another coat of spray. That is how I did the deck.

Metal parts I paint flat black first, then I use the dark red shades to simulate rust, blow the excess off then use black pastel to soften the rusty look. The black pastel will leave a flatter, darker black than the paint is.
The top of the workbench, and the sideboards of the tryworks were painted primer gray, then black pastel applied over the primer.

Points to remember are for one never allow the unprotected pastel to get wet, it’ll turn into a wash and soak into the wood, so be very careful especially when blowing off the excess pastel dust (you know what I mean). Secondly, I’m only weathering used and working parts right now; I think too much will end up ruining the ship instead of making it look better. So, what ever is painted is the way those will stay. This is what I know so far. One thing I am going to try, is to get that greenish-blue effect on the top few rows of copper plates, but that will come later. The tryworks was weathered differently, so I won’t put that in this post, as it is long enough as is, and I used something other than pastels to do this.

Practice, and if you achieve something that I haven’t yet then post it along with the rest of this, so we can put together our own weathering techniques.
_________________
Gerald Spargo

This is a text that was published by Gerald Spalgo on the former forum.  He is one of the very best "weatherers" I know, next to an excellent model builder.
 
Weathering With Pastels:

I still haven’t got this all figured out yet, but I thought I’d share what I have learned so far so anyone interested can have a place to start from.

I’m going to repeat something that I’ve said before, to start this out. Ship Modeling is just an ongoing learning process that one has to be persistent with. You can't learn any other way, than to just do it. You are your on best teacher, and critic. No amount of reading will give you the same type of know-how that first hand experience will give you. I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you have an idea or if there is a technique that you see some one else using that you would really like to try, then try it. I know ship model kits are expensive and no one wants to miss them up, but it's just wood, its forgiving to mistakes and it can be replaced if need be. After all you had no idea, just like me, how to even build a ship model until we tried it. So know that we know or are at least learning, it's time to up the skills needed to build even better models, and failures & successes will come, but hey , that's the fun in it. If your not having fun at it anymore, then it has become a job instead of a hobby. Making mistakes is not something that I'm afraid of, cause I know for a fact that I'm going to make them, but when I put a picture on this forum or in the gallery I want it to look the best that I'm capable of doing. Once you learn this, the better you will allow yourself to be.


The pastels that I’m using right now are Earth Tone-Soft Pastels. There are many shades of colors that can be used. I do not have all of them yet, but I will later on. There are also weathering powders that could be used, but I haven’t tried them so I don’t know how well they will work yet. These powders can be bought through Micro-Mark, and are called Doc O’Brien’s Weathering Powders. I also use three old paintbrushes to apply it with. Two of the brushes are a size 3, 1 soft & 1 stiff; the other is a small 3/0 size brush. Plus a soft-bristled toothbrush and a 1/8” round deer-foot paintbrush (for spots to small for the toothbrush. As far as the clear coat that I use, it is “Krylon’s” Clear Matte Finish. It works very well for this.

First off, try to imagine what something would truly look like if you were standing right there next to it. Now keep in mind how old these ships are. Some of you will have an advantage in this, as you have actually been aboard a ship or two. The rest of us will have to rely on photos and imagination. My deck on the Charles Morgan was first stained with Drift-Wood Stain and allowed to dry, 2 light coats, and then lightly steel-wooled. I used a medium shade of brown to cover the whole deck, then brushed it out with the toothbrush until it was even through out. I then used a shade that is almost orange and applied it down the middle length of each plank; then again I used the toothbrush and lightly blended the two together. Careful, blend only enough to get a smooth contrasting flow from one color to the next, too much and it will disappear into one color. Then I used a dark shade of brown and applied it to all the edges (of everything), and blended this the same way. I then sprayed two light coats of the matte finish on the surface to keep it from smudging. Now as I add more structures and pieces to the deck I continue to add the dark brown pastel to the edges of them. When finished I will need to give everything another coat of spray. That is how I did the deck.

Metal parts I paint flat black first, then I use the dark red shades to simulate rust, blow the excess off then use black pastel to soften the rusty look. The black pastel will leave a flatter, darker black than the paint is.
The top of the workbench, and the sideboards of the tryworks were painted primer gray, then black pastel applied over the primer.

Points to remember are for one never allow the unprotected pastel to get wet, it’ll turn into a wash and soak into the wood, so be very careful especially when blowing off the excess pastel dust (you know what I mean). Secondly, I’m only weathering used and working parts right now; I think too much will end up ruining the ship instead of making it look better. So, what ever is painted is the way those will stay. This is what I know so far. One thing I am going to try, is to get that greenish-blue effect on the top few rows of copper plates, but that will come later. The tryworks was weathered differently, so I won’t put that in this post, as it is long enough as is, and I used something other than pastels to do this.

Practice, and if you achieve something that I haven’t yet then post it along with the rest of this, so we can put together our own weathering techniques.
_________________
Gerald Spargo