Beef Wellington

Good Morning Jason;
 
Regarding the AOTS volume, David White was/is a very knowledgeable person, and if he says that there were separate ringbolts, I would tend to take his word for it. My only qualification on this matter is that I do not remember ever seeing any such ring/eye bolts in either models or books. However, as has been said before, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. 
 
Concerning duality of function, it is very unlikely that train tackles would need to be rigged at the same time as the ship was anchored. This is only likely in a defensive posture in face of superior force, which was rare. So the same ring/eye bolt could perform different functions as required.
 
Having said that, you are quite correct that Lever's stoppers do look pretty permanent. My best advice would be to do as you think best, but with the balance of probability being as per David White's volume if you are building a model from the late 18th century or after.
 
All the best,
 
Mark 

Hi druxey, yes, more jigsaw puzzle. The image with the blue station lines below shows port #11, and the small dots are the locations of the lid laniers. I eyeball measured the height of these above the gunport from a photo of HMS Victory, as a proportion of the height of the port. Although they fall very close to the seam of the channel wale, they clear the preventer plates.
 
The image without the station lines shows ports around the main mast closer to the waist, and here we can see how the bolts at the tops of the preventer plates come very close to the seam of the channel wale. The wale is specified as three planks, and the wale and the preventer plates are located exactly as drawn in the original Bellona sheer; so as designed, the bolts fall in an unfortunate place. It is also interesting that the lower ends of the plate fall off the wale altogether. Since I am building it as designed, I guess I live with this. It will make an interesting talking point years from now...
 
Mark, thanks for reminding me of the discussion about the port stops. I now remember being convinced by the argument, and intend to form the stops that way on the model. What is interesting about the Steel planking plan is that the plank edges at the bottom of the port show how they form the rabbet at the cill; but the planks at the sides come right up to the edge of the frame without forming a rabbet. I am guessing that this may have been drawn for convenience, and that they should have been shown stopping short. But what do I know?😊
 
Thanks, everyone, for continuing to critique my interpretations and drawings. This project gets significantly more accurate from your questions, comments and suggestions. Good thing I am retired and have time to go back and redo things. This process also points out the value of first drawing it as best one can, then getting comments on the drawing and adjusting accordingly. A temporary step backward, in order to jump forward! (and Landrotten Highlander, I looked up the Echternach, Luxemburgh dance on YouTube; at good metaphor!)
 
Mark

I used the corner of an ordinary chisel (ie: holding the chisel at roughly a 45 deg angle to the dowel so that the edge just touches, and then gradually moving it along the support).   This also tends to get rid of any variation in the dimensions of the dowel.    I used this method to take the dowel close to the required dimensions, then sanding sticks to finish.

..Appreciate everyone's input....
 
Mark, glad you posted a picture of Lever, that is the picture that prompted my question but was reluctant to post a copy.  The other reference is from Page 75 of the AOTS Diana book.  Basically, this identifies 6 ringbolts for stoppers (5 aft and 1 fore of the bitts).    In the same deck space there would need to be at least 3 ring bolts/rings to act as relieving tackles due the cannon placement.  Given that there are exactly 7 deck beams within this section for this class of ship, and assuming that any bolt would be placed through a deck beam, clearly there needs to be some duplication, especially considering cannon placement and the bitts. (Considering one side only for simplicity)
 
The picture and description in Lever suggest stoppers attached via a thimble which would appears to be semi-permanent (?), versus a relieving tackle that could be attached at will via a hook.  So trying to apply some logic here, unless there were two ring bolts installed in certain beams which I haven't seen represented anywhere, there are certain positions where a ring bolt would need to serve both purposes.  Would the thimble be placed directly into a bolt as illustrated in Lever, or is it possible it would be placed on a ring which would then easily permit the dual function.
 
I'm also guessing (!) that not all ring bolts would have stoppers as illustrated on the page referenced above, and that 'ring ropes' pictured would also have been used to help secure the cable and would be easily removed when not needed.  I know this is a really pedantic question, but the practical side of me is crying out for practicality here...

..Appreciate everyone's input....
 
Mark, glad you posted a picture of Lever, that is the picture that prompted my question but was reluctant to post a copy.  The other reference is from Page 75 of the AOTS Diana book.  Basically, this identifies 6 ringbolts for stoppers (5 aft and 1 fore of the bitts).    In the same deck space there would need to be at least 3 ring bolts/rings to act as relieving tackles due the cannon placement.  Given that there are exactly 7 deck beams within this section for this class of ship, and assuming that any bolt would be placed through a deck beam, clearly there needs to be some duplication, especially considering cannon placement and the bitts. (Considering one side only for simplicity)
 
The picture and description in Lever suggest stoppers attached via a thimble which would appears to be semi-permanent (?), versus a relieving tackle that could be attached at will via a hook.  So trying to apply some logic here, unless there were two ring bolts installed in certain beams which I haven't seen represented anywhere, there are certain positions where a ring bolt would need to serve both purposes.  Would the thimble be placed directly into a bolt as illustrated in Lever, or is it possible it would be placed on a ring which would then easily permit the dual function.
 
I'm also guessing (!) that not all ring bolts would have stoppers as illustrated on the page referenced above, and that 'ring ropes' pictured would also have been used to help secure the cable and would be easily removed when not needed.  I know this is a really pedantic question, but the practical side of me is crying out for practicality here...

Good Morning All;
 
I can understand Mac's thinking, but there is no need to get slack in the cable. The procedure was to make the inboard end of the cable fast to the bitts before the anchor was let go. The anchor would then hit the bottom, and the ship would be allowed to fall off until brought up by the cable becoming taut. Standard practice was for the cable used to be be three times the depth of water in length. 
 
That the cable was given a half-turn around the top of the bitt pin and then a similar turn, in the opposite direction, around the end of the cross-piece is shown in various contemporary illustrations. The cross piece for a third-rate 74 was around 18" square. The anchor cable for a third-rate was around 7" in diameter.  For a first-rate it was between 7" & 8" in diameter, and in 1745 a ship of this rate would have carried 9 different cables of varying lengths for its largest anchors. A third-rate, along with most other rates, carried 7 cables, most of them about 100 fathoms (600 feet) long. They could be joined to allow anchoring in water over 200 feet deep.
 
Mac is right to mention the expense. The Royal Navy, and presumably other Navies, placed a high value on anchors and cables, which were very expensive. There are regular mentions in the archives of dockyard personnel, or crew members, selling the cut-off ends of cables. When caught, they would be severely punished. It is hard not to feel sympathy for some of them, though, a common (and very true) defence being that they had not been paid for two or three years, and their wife and children were starving.
 
A consequence of this high value was that anyone who salvaged an anchor, or anchor and cable, was well-rewarded. The Navy would sometimes commission a non-Navy vessel to go and sweep an area where a ship or ships were known to have left anchors and cables.
 
Below is a page from Darcy Lever's 'Young Sea-Officer's Sheet Anchor' (from Dover Books) showing the bitts, cable and stoppers (the cable is shown much thinner than in reality, and the knees to the bitts are much too short in both length and height) Note that the stoppers are used on the aft side of the bitts.

 
All the best,
 
Mark P

Welcome Neil!

The coppering looks great Skip.  You're making great progress so hope you don't mind if I follow along, I do love the Swan builds.

Thus ends the German phase; Graf Zeppelin, Seydlitz and Emden. 

Parked up in the digital graveyard. 
 
I live in hope they will make a USS Langley so I can build that as my third US ship, but I’m not really inspired by anything at the moment as anything I build I want to weather heavily as it’s fun. I’m really not a fan of doing that many aircraft again, so as a break I intend to do a couple of flying boats in ‘Shore Leave’. I haven’t built a plastic aircraft since the very early 1980’s. 

Have been back onto the Speedy over the past couple of days, after sorting some stuff for the third kit. Have been building the little cutter - damn why did I think it was a good idea to include this, they are so fiddly! Almost finished though, two a half days! I think that if I had the right software, I would design the shell to be cast in resin and offer it as an alternative, hate doing these, but they do look nice on the model when complete..

Hi,
 
I do have the Lord Nelson figures in stock, 50 each in 1:64 (£12.50) and 72nd (£12.00). However, my website is not good at adding new stuff, so it will change to a platform that is more product based.
 
If you want a figure, please PM me - not much more I can do until my website is sorted.
 
On a different note, I have been studying my plans for Indefatigable. It seems the full hull and stern detail is only shown on this particular variant of the Ardent Class. I note the number of lower stern windows is seven (I know there is a later Ardent Class with eight, but not the 1764 class).
 
As this is (apparently) the only contemporary set of plans for the class showing the stern in detail, would it be safe to assume that Agamemnon would also have seven and not eight windows? I ask because one day, I would like to have another go at Egg's 'N' Bacon, but in her as launched form and a lot more internal detail. (Once I have the lines done for Indefatigable and before I chop the bulkheads down, I have the lines for the Ardent Class)

@ccoyle thank you. Each person different feeling. Personaly I like more less colours on the model.
 
As parts became smaller and smaller the progress slows Down as well. I have installed few cleats (they are laser cut from the side and also from above so it is shaped very well I only had to remove the char). I have assembled the pulley on the bow from 3 photoetched parts and add the horseshoes to the keel. All is blackend with "brass black". 

Back to cannons and how to rig them since the cannons which will be under the upper decks need to be placed prior to gluing the decks in.  I decided to fit all carriages with breeching ropes, not a big deal.  Only the four cannons that will be slightly visible will get in-haul and out-haul tackles, out-haul only on the visible side.  There are several approaches to treatment of the spare line on the tackles.  On DubZ's Syren - he leaves the lines free on the deck, although these are not cannons and don't have as much excess line.  Many builders of the Pegasus, e.g. Flyer and Blue Ensign, chose to frappe the tackles.  After looking at a lot of reference material and blogs, I have gone a slightly different way.  With the guns run out, showing her teeth as they say, I would guess that the gun would need to be ready for somewhat violent recoil, so the out-haul tackles would need to be free to run, not frapped as they might be for storage with the guns stored inboard.  So I have flaked the excess line alongside the gun as I might imagine it was done in preparation for firing.  The in-haul tackle is at its' maximum extension so there is likely very little excess line, so I chose to affix it to the deck running back close to the eye bolt holding the inboard block.  This seems to me how the cannon would be set up prior to firing.
 
 
 

After a lot of debate (with myself) and reading blogs I decided this was a good time to copper the hull; prior to installing the upper decks.  It has its advantages and disadvantages, but this way once the hull is coppered I won't have to invert it anymore.
 
I used the technique described by Blue Ensign - soaked the sheets, one at a time, in white vinegar, buffed with 0000 steel wool and then cleaned with acetone.  Put the sheet into a gallon zip-loc bag and then folded to separate the plates.  Once this was done they were never touched without latex gloves.  Used medium CA to glue the plates, applied with the side of a needle as a spreader.  Too often I still ended up with too much CA and cleaning the plates will be a bit tedious, but I have found 0000 steel wool with a bit of acetone will take off the excess CA (with a bit of elbow grease).
 
First I put folded plates around the stern post, which will be mostly covered with the hull plates.  This gives a neat look to the stern post.   I started off trying to "brick lay" the plates like Blue Ensign, but quickly became unhappy with the gaps caused by the curvature (kudos to Blue Ensign).  I then went to the technique used by Flyer, of overlapping the plates slightly at the bottom (top edge of the lower row).  This allowed me to get tight fits and looked a lot better.  The upper most row was installed along the waterline as done by Flyer.  I like the nice appearance.  Cutting the plates always leaves a somewhat jagged edge.  When both sides are complete I will add the small wooden strip at the top of the copper, on the waterline.
 
Pictures show the starboard side, finished, and lightly cleaned.  I won't do the final cleaning of the CA until both sides are coppered.
 

 
 

So I have just discovered today this is what would really have been used as a tractor!!! How cool is this? I have to make it. 

The kettenrad was just horrible to build. The little Kubelwagon was a bit better. Torpedo and bomb trolleys, and the Stukas are done. 

Thanks everyone, need to record a few things before moving on too much further:
 
Tackles:
Boy, these blighters take time.  I will definitely not be fully rigging each gun, but will look to rig those fall into possibly the 'noticeable in the background' category.  Here's the method I found works best for me.  Apologies for the photos, an iPhone is really not the best at trying to photograph tiny objects suspended in the air.
 
A hook was threaded with 0.3mm Syren line and some overhand knots tied to seize this securely.  Drop of GS Hypo cement to keep secure before trimming excess.  The long ends are then placed around the block and loose overhand knot tied.
 

 
A length of line for the tackle fall is then inserted into the loop and then threaded back through itself as for a false splice.

 
Pulling the overhand know tight around the block, and simultaneously tightening the false splice secures the knot around the block.  Another small drop of GS Hypo cement on the false splice helps keep this secure, and placing the end of the stropping line into 'helping hands' helps keep the knot tight while the cement dries.

 
Slightly weighting the tackle fall line (in this case with tweezers) allows the alignment if the block to be tweaked before the cement sets fully.  Thin thread can then be seized around the splice to secure it, I find alternating overhand knots gives a pretty secure and easy result.  Once more, another drop of GS Hypo on the seizing helps ensure this doesn't unravel once trimmed.

 

 
Once completed, I use some dilute PVA glue on the stropping prior to trimming off any excess as some additional insurance as it is a frustrating experience for these to break when frapping.  The tackle falls were then fed through the previously stropped double blocks, and then frapped on the service machine as per a previous post.  The last turn was secured simply by feeding back through the prior turn and pulling taught.  The completed tackle can then be placed where needed and some dilute PVA applied again to the whole tackle - special attention was paid to ensuring the tackle fed through the frapping was secured with glue.  The entire tackle can then be removed once dry and the excess line trimmed.  Its a simple matter to hook these back into position.  Et voila!
 

 
Stove:
The stove has also been given a little more TLC and is now glued into position.  Handles for the boilers were added, as well as rails which were made from brass rod.  The rails were the treated with some JAX 'Brown' to darken it a little a keep it in keeping with the colour of the copper still.  As described in a previous post, I've followed TFFM simulating wooden battens under the custom base plate rather than simulating tiles, they would not been seen in any event once the main riding bitts are in place.  Temporarily putting the fo'c'sl deck in place shows that much of this will be obscured even if the various gratings are made removeable which I plan to do.
 

 
In closing, a quick summary of the 3D printed stove.  With a little work I'm happy with the way this turned out.  Comparison to the kit supplied version shows the dimensions to be a little more authentic, and the detailing is much more pleasing than the approximations on the supplied white metal parts.  To be fair, no work was done to pretty this up, but I'd certainly recommend this as a simple 'upgrade'.
 

 
 
 

Think I've got a bit of catching up to do.  Firstly, heres the Captain Cook Monument in Waimea, no undercooked beef wellington shots in this one   .  Found the beach he landed at, nothing special but couldn't locate the plaque that allegedly marks the spot according to guide books.
 

 
I have managed at least an interim milestone, the completion of the starboard copper...this task just goes on and on
 
Couple of items I've found to be helpful:
Super Solvent - I've found this product to be highly effective at getting rid of any CA glue residue (at least the Admiralty Pro thick stuff).  Wiping over the surface of any potential smearing is usually enough Some plates plates require very acute angles to be cut and when using scissors (which I find by far the easiest), the ends tend to curl and distort horribly.  I found that cutting these as part of a larger section this problem is eliminated, although care is needed still to separate them.
 
And the results.  Some of the photos are before I cleaned to plates with copper cleaner, which I did to ensure that there was no CA residue anywhere.  These will need to be done again once all the plates are on as I can guarantee more finger prints.  Managed to do the copper plate pattern at the bow that seems to be prevalent on so many models and AOTS drafts, slight discrepancies in the plates will only become less noticeable as the copper ages and darkens.  Overall I'm very happy with the Amati plates, and slight plate misalignments that just seem to be inevitable when using CA glue are tolerable.  Not sure I could do it any better if I were to do it again, so I think that's the yardstick to meaure to.
 
At the bow, I plated the cutwater first and tried to shape the plates on the planking to match the required curve.  Its far from perfect but will do.  I think these areas are inherently limited given the thickness of the plates, I suspect using copper tape would allow a more scale appearance.
 
I drilled some small holes in the waterline batten to simulate nails and highlighted with pencil, these are not to scale but felt it gives it a little bit more functional relevance.
 

 
Et voila!  The pinkish hue of freshly cleaned copper reminded me on the AOTS Diana picture, I was very pleased with the lines that appear once the waterline is apparent. Obviously next step is to continue with the other side.... 
 

Cheers guys (Yes Mort, I can only imagine it getting heavier, especially with all the cannons in place as well!).  Good news, the fix to the boo-boo turned out just fine.  Lesson learned, so will be putting some protection on these delicate areas going forward. Not much to show for time but feel I need to get up to date.  Lots of sanding sessions to get a nice shape, and the weather hasn't really been cooperating.
 
 
Batten at the waterline has been installed.  Tried thinning down some 1x1mm strip to approx. .5mm thickness but found that this was just too delicate a procedure, so thinned as much as possible and it was pretty easy to take more off once installed.  Used PVA to attach which worked just fine as it develops a sufficient tack needed for this thin stuff, even in the curved areas which just required a few minutes of finger pressure.  To help with this, I temporarily attached some scrap walnut strip to act as guides.
 
Once in place, put on a single coat of wipe on poly to protect the surface and then used some walnut stain to colour below the batten.  Although this will be coppered, think its better to have a darker surface in case there are gaps between the plates.
 

 
Also started to put in place the oar and vent ports.  Each needs to be individually shaped as I think it would follow the profile of the other planking.  Getting a uniform (or as best I can) fit takes a bit of fiddling.  Captain Sterling is keeping on top of things in his new nice new uniform....
 

 
And where things stand...
 

Before installing any more planks, started drawing the reference lines using tick strips. I should have done that before installing the limber strake, but I really wanted to cut some wood to resume modelling..  
I am still happy with my flexible jig, that allows working with model in any direction. Very handy for such jobs, allows resting the hand instead of using it suspended.


 
Now it's time to face some sloppiness that I made when fairing the hull. The exposed side got a lot of love, while the other side had a lot of areas that are not properly faired. "Not a big deal, I will plank this anyway", said stupid me a few years ago...  
Some areas are easy to fix (just adding a thin strip to bridge the gap):

But some are bad, and are located in tricky areas.
So I spent a few hours with tiny chisels and riffler files to level cant frames. Luckily no need for a nice finish, since planks will hide all the dents. But it is a very delicate task to avoid scratching everything around. Some masking tape and care is necessary.


 
Note to self, and hopefully somebody will avoid the same mistake: spend extra time fairing everything, especially tight areas. Use a strip of wood to check the smooth run, your eye will deceive you. Any hour saved on fairing phase means you borrow that time and will spend 5x fairing it in situ. Damaging something while doing it.
 
So now everything is lined up, but the close-ups around the stern are brutal   Most of it will get hidden though.
I assumed equal plank width when lining up, but of course they will have different thickness. It is good to have guide marks anyway!
 


So now it's time to start planking, and hopefully avoid too many redos. Really worried about sloppy fairing biting me down the road, will see. Will try to counter it with creative sanding. In worst case scenario - will use a full set of carlings & ledges when making the deck, so nobody will see the mistakes   
 

The deck after second layer of oil looks fantastic 😲 it is super smooth and the colour is beautyful

I have put some other elements on. Now I can continue with woodwork. 

A full eleven days since my last update! Well, my workshop has been stifling hot, so I've not spent as much time there. 
 
Master Korabel produced a lovely kit with some nice builder details, such as the lines that you can join up with a pencil across the planks....only lightly though as we don't want to mark the surface irreversibly! These pencil lines help us place planks in relation too each other.

With the hull sanded smooth, the pear wood second layer planking could begin. A Dremel was used at the 1st layer garboard plank, thinning it down to bleed between the planks and the false keel. A strip of pear was lined along the keel edge and the hull sanded into this, reducing the width of the keel joint so the second planking would sit up next to it.


First of all.....a quick fit of the pear keep to make sure it fits properly. Ignore the space between the deck and inside bulwark. That's intentional and a waterway will fit there. 

Planking starts with the most important and keep plank which runs as the outside bulwark. This of course needs to be placed at the correct height etc. You can gauge this with the positions of the gun ports etc. but if like me, you were slightly out with some frames, then a small compromise needs to be made. Before the planks are added, I soaked them for 5 mins in hot water and formed them around an aerosol until dry.

With the first planks on, the lower internal wale planks are now added. I found these a little trickier as I needed to make them conform around the shoulder of the hull, in an almost compound curve. I can do some sanding later.

From this point, planking is fairly straightforward, but stops when I reach the bottom of the tafrel area. This is so I can sand, shape and trim to fit tafrel parts to fit.


After some small adjustments on the stern keel area, allowing the next planks to fit continuously, these are all finally added. I used Titebond on these, brushed onto the planks, and I did each plank in three glue sessions. 

Next up is some very gentle sanding and fairing as I don't want to really lose any of the laser details. 
 
More next time!
 

Post 8
Sand, fill, and the tweaks begin
The hull has been filled where necessary using a very light and fine filler, sanded, smoothed, and sanded again. I used a thin vertical strip to highlight any hollows.
My hull wasn't in bad shape prior to the sanding but I found that Chris's estimate of an hours' work for the sanding process to be somewhat optimistic in my case.🙄

1338
At this point I added the uppermost strake of 1.5 x 4mm strip.

1340
Using a full strip I  formed a lateral bend to follow the sheer line and  a slight curve to round the bow section. Went on quite easily but pinning thro' the upper end of the bulkhead extensions did split many of them.
Clamps and pegs were used to secure the strakes during gluing, don't think pins are really required.
 
Counter pattern (48)

1341
When I first fitted this I wasn't happy with the result, and removed it. It seemed to lack that graceful  curve following the line of what would be the lower stern counter timber. This is because the stern frames are straight on their underside rather than concave.
This is clearly evident on the kit build photo's which show it as a near straight line, which creates a mismatch to the curve of the lower counter pattern represented by part (76)
In my opinion this produces a less than desirable look.

1343
Before fitting the counter pattern I would suggest that the curve of part 76 is marked on the stern timbers and the curve  sanded into the profile, as shown above and below.

1344

1346
The  lower counter pattern (76)  temporarily in place.

1347
This is the effect I'm looking for.

1349
I then re-attached the Counter pattern (48),
Note:  I have left planking the tuck until later, I want the diagonal planking to go over the ends of the second planking rather than the other way around.

1357
With the counter in place I planked it horizontally with thin Box strip.
 
I will probably replace the counter timbers with Boxwood versions.
I note a difference between the kit Alert and the book Alert in that the lower stern counter timber on the kit version ends atop the wale, whereas  the book drawings show the timber carrying down with the wale butting against it, in the same manner as Cheerful.
This is something else I will need to consider when fitting the wale.
 
B.E.
31/07/2019
 

Remember for Caldercraft (unfortunately) their main focus seems to be RC boats, I suspect there is little incentive to them to develop new kit offerings, and to be fair their current range is pretty extensive, though some kites are definitely showing their age now.  I still find it hard to believe that there is not a classic 74 in 1:64 scale, Caldercraft have been advertising this for years and I suspect will never happen.