Nirvana

Thanks guys, for the input, much appreciated. I have settled on my next kit, as it is a no brainer.
 
In the meantime, I still have a lot to do for Duchess of Kingston, and Jim is building the second prototype model for me, to make sure it goes together as well as it should, and taking pictures of the building stages. These will be used in the building manual.
 
One thing, though, I am not sure I ever want to revisit stuff I have done before (with just two exceptions), so no Bounty's, Endeavour's, especially/absolutely/definitely no more Victory's. There are still plenty of subjects out there that are perhaps not as well known, but look beautiful when built (Fly being a perfect example). The period between 1770 and early 1780's are rife with such examples, and my initial/intended line up is full of such vessels, new stuff rather than rehashes..
 
I think I will do a couple more kits like the fishing boats in the future, though, as these have proved quite popular.

How about a POF kit?  I think there might be some interest?
 
Another thought royal yachts from @17-18 century such as Fubbs, Royal Caroline

I too want to applaud Chris (and Chuck) for sharing and soliciting the input of others.  I'm sure we all respect it is his nickel on the line when it comes time to make decisions. My input is its great to have a diverse line, and I agree not to have too many models that are essentially the same - the reverse side is an eclectic line up may have the reverse impact with buyers not seeking him out because they don't know what he does.  I think Chris' philosophy of making models everyone can build with clear instructions, expert design, and quality laser cut material will set him apart, but that it should be a reasonably bracketed range of products. I think Chris is doing this by a time period of sailing ships, so that makes sense to me.  

There's room for much improvement in these models and I would be all over them if Chris ever decided to offer any models of these beautiful boats.

This is a very interesting conversation and it's exciting to see you pondering the development of your next models.
 
I'm sure I'm going to be an outlier in this discussion since my interests in ship modeling is very broad and eclectic. I'm only a couple of years into the hobby and so far I've built a New England dory, a small Croation fishing boat, the Medway Longboat and I'm currently working on a racing sailboat, the Pen Duick. My next build and first ship with guns will be the Flirt and I have the Lady Isabella in my queue. So, as you can see, I don't specialize in a certain era or history like many modelers do especially those who are deep into the great, warships of the Age of Sail. I enjoy exploring many different styles of ships and maritime history.
 
That said, I'd be cautious of building too many ships that are very similar except for their history per se. At least for me, I would be less interested in another brig that, at least in appearance, was very similar to the Flirt even if it was importantly different in its naval history. Others, however, who are aficionados of the particular era of these ships, would probably love to add another brig to their fleet of models. Again, for me, I appreciate the variety that you currently offer including the fifi and zulu along with the Speedy and the Flirt and the upcoming Dutchess of Kingston.
 
Another example of offering a variety of models that has been very successful is what Chuck has done with his Syren models: a longboat (Medway Longboat), a royal barge (Queen Anne Barge), a cutter (Cheerful) and a 32 gun frigate (the Winchelsea). He is also considering a cross section of the Winnie as a possible new model next in his lineup. 
 
I was pleasantly surprised and happy to see that you decided to add the Lady Eleanor and the Lady Isabella to your selection of models. They're not everyone's cup of tea but my guess is that they have been fairly popular and we are seeing quite a few build logs of them here of MSW. I would love to see you continue to venture outside of your primary interests in the great warships in the development of your models. I think there is a market for variety of high quality models with excellent materials and instructions in many categories of ship modeling. 
 
I also think that there is a place for simply making a better, high quality, more historically accurate model of some of the favorite, famous warships that are already offered by other companies. I have noticed that the builders of these popular models often encounter the same frustrating problems with some aspects of the kits including parts that do not fit right, errors in the instructions and plans, and historical inaccuracies that are rarely ever corrected by the ship modeling company. Experienced modelers generally find ways to overcome these problems but it would be nice to have kits of some of these classic models that are very much improved over what is currently offered.
 
As I mentioned to Chuck in another post, I think that Syren and Vanguard are pushing the envelope of excellence in the development of model ship kits today and CAF Models seems to be up and coming also. This is a breath of fresh air to this hobby and wish you all much success.
 
Just my rather inexperienced, "outlier" 2 cents worth....

UPS seem to be the most consistent out of the couriers I've experienced of recent.

Chris is correct about lineup of kits before big developments. Eventually is bussiness and there must be income for that development period.
MSW has many members with different opinions what he should develop and im sure he takes that account if it matches with his goals.
 
Lets not forget that there isnt anyone else besides Chuck who discusses what members would like do see in the future....correct me if im wrong.
 
In other words im sure many will 100% support your decision on developments no matter what it is.
 
Keep up the superb work and we cant wait to see your new develooments for upcoming years.

Damn, I just ordered this thing yesterday (Sunday) and the UPS tracking email I just got says it will be to my house on Wednesday.  That's a heck of a lot faster than I would have guessed, UK to California. I guess I won't be sitting back and anticipating very long. 😃

Coronet looks nice. But then, most sea going sailing vessels look nice - but not all graceful like that one..
 
Here are the sample cannon barrels I received last week. The ones on carriages are a 9-pounder and 18 pounder. The rest are 12 pounder (lone standard and one for an early 32 gun frigate), 24 and 32 pounders. The retail versions will be in black resin, these are grey so I can more easily see the detail.

That depends on how one defines the word "yacht." America's Cup racers are relatively well-represented (numerous versions of America, Mamoli's Puritan, Amati's Endeavour, etc.), but the really elegant sailing and motor yachts of yesteryear are not on anyone's radar. Chris may recall that at one time I suggested that he look into doing a kit of Coronet, which is currently being restored at the International Yacht Restoration School, so lots of info on her construction should be available. Sadly, though, I think that a kit of any of these glamorous vessels would only ever appeal to a small slice of our membership, since they don't have the requisite lots of guns. So as Chris hinted, something like this is probably best reserved until after he gets an established basic lineup in place.

Maybe one day, but I need to go through my list of subjects that I will definitely do first, all between 1750 and 1806. I thought yachts were well catered for, as most have a kit of one or more?

I want to re-register my vote for a small frigate like Sphinx. The big 40’s are gun platforms and while they may have history, they are readily available and don’t have much character. The perhaps lessor know and smaller frigates aren’t targets of the big manufacturers and are more unique to build, because they were unique when they existed. I mean how many gun carriages do we need to make. At some point British ships became a bit cookie cutter.  
 
Admittedly I say this with Pegasus and Vanguard already displayed on my shelves, but I think a model that doesn’t take two-three years to build has an audience, at least this audience member. I don’t want to sort out many more 4 pounders like Speedy and Flirt, and I get it about carronades even if they aren’t as sexy as 12 pounders. So a 20 gun range frigate is my recommendation. I liked building Granado, the bomb ship deck mortars have character and were interesting to build as another example. 

Chris, is there any chance you might look into creating a kit of more modern style.
Don't get me wrong here,  I like the old type of sailing ships and their sophisticated rigging. But one area of ship/yacht type that is still not commonly seen is large civilian yachts from 1930's and forward. Instead of cannons/rigging etc the details will be on interior. Just my two cents.

Neil
I, together with the Admins and Moderators of MSW extends a warm 
We are all here to help each other when we are facing issues with our builds, this happens to all of us, regardless skills.
Build logs are our friend, a source to find help and ask for the same.
 

Richard, 
I just got back to my Bluenose, and I have to say.... the detailing of yours is outstanding, 
and I know I won't even close to yours when mine is done.
However, you are an inspiration to all of us. There is always something to learn from others.
Thank you

Chris, is there any chance you might look into creating a kit of more modern style.
Don't get me wrong here,  I like the old type of sailing ships and their sophisticated rigging. But one area of ship/yacht type that is still not commonly seen is large civilian yachts from 1930's and forward. Instead of cannons/rigging etc the details will be on interior. Just my two cents.

The initial shaping of the keel turned out quite well.
 

 
Now I need to gradually change the angle of the "T" to a "Y" and more like an "I" towards the stem and stern so that the garboard plank has a flat surface. Before I start with that I want to make the frames for the plug to make sure I get the angles right at each station.
 
I have started to draw a line 1 mm inside the hull line at each station so I have the correct size. The planking will be 1 mm so the plug must be reduced by that much.
 

 
 
 
 

i am big fan of clinker myself so will watch eagerly. good luck V. 

You are both very welcome Tom and Vladimir.
 
I do have some other clinker builds that I would like to try, and this will be a step in improving my skills.
 
The wood i selected for this model is European Lime wood. That the color is rater similar to pine, which is the typical wood of the original ships, was one reason. It's also rather soft and easy to work with only hand tools. I have read that yellow cedar is an excellent wood for modelling, but I think its hard to get here in Europe.
 
The keel is actually not lime wood, but Obechi. I needed a piece with 10 x 10 cross section to carve the keel, an the supplier only had Lime wood up to 8 x 8 mm. Obechi is also soft and easy to carve, and the color is very similar to Lime wood.

Very nice boat Bolin , I will watch. happy build ! Vlad

Bolin,
This looks like a very interesting build.  I'll be following it for a number of reasons: I'm also interested in smaller work boats such as this one, and longboats, launches, etc.  The big ships are impressive, but sailors were in essence skilled workmen and craftsmen, and that's my background too.  With the smaller boats you can get a real sense of this.  Also, I'm very interested in how to build clinker hulls: I'm new to this hobby, so there's a lot I don't know yet.  What species of wood will you use?  The photos show what looks like beech or yellow cedar.

And today I started to make some sawdust for the model itself.
 
I follow the advice in Harold Underhills book to cut the pieces that are going to be joined to larger assemblies (such as the stem) with extra material, and trim the assembly to its form rather than then the individual pieces. Regarding the placement and the type of joins in the stem and for the stern the plans I'm working from does not provide any information. I did find the drawings for a reconstruction of a similar ship in the collections of the Maritime history museum in Stockholm and put the joins in the same places.
 

 
The keel should have a "T" cross section. I will try to carve it from a square piece. As I don't have a milling machine, and no special planes for this type of work, I will try to do it with a scalpel and a chisel. I do have material for three more tries if the first one does not turn out to well...
 

 
 

Today I made the first cut for a model I have been planning an researching for a while.
 

 
This will be a typical sloop from Roslagen (an area in the Stockholm archipelago and the coast north of it). Once, such sloops where a common sight along the quays of Stockholm, but from around 1920 they started to disappear quickly. They where typical working boats and where usually not built on a shipyard. Instead they where built by the fisherman/framers on the islands of the archipelago. Maybe with the help of a master ship builder that was hired to help with the critical laying of the keel and forming the strakes and fitting the frames. Then the builder/owner used the ship for his own needs, and for transporting goods to the growing city Stockholm.
 
The hulls where (with few exceptions) clinker built using traditional methods following principles that goes back to the viking age and beyond. Looking at the hulls they in many ways resembles enlarged open boats. And it seems to be the way that they had evolved. For the inhabitants of the archipelago there was a need for different sized boats for different tasks. So the same shape was more or less reused in different sizes.
 
This model will be of a "Storbåt" (= great boat) or "Sandkil" as it was also known. The later name is derived from "transporting sand" and became the most common name as they where used for that during the late 19th century when Stockholm was growing rapidly and many houses where built. There where also larger variants, such as the "Vedjakt" (firewood yacht) that specialized in transporting firewood.
 
My model will be based on a plan from the Eskader (eskader.se) hobby shop in Stockholm. The plan is, as far as I can tell, not based on any specific ship, but is a generalization of the type. It does resemble the following drawing quite a bit, so I think that that has been the primary source.
 

 
The drawing above is from the collections of the Maritime history museum i Stockholm. The text under the title says that it is based on measurements of a real ship. However it does not say which one and when it was done. I do suspect that it was made somewhere between 1930 and 1950, while there where still some ships left to make measurements of. In the 1970s it was believed that none had survived. But then in the 1980s a hull that had been converted to a houseboat was discovered and renovated. I will use the photos from that renovation (which are available at Maritime history museum) to fill in some of the details that are missing in the plans from Eskader.
 
What I miss most from the plans is any indication of the shape and position of the frames. My plan is to build the model as a traditional clinker built boat, shell first, upside down over a plug. The frames will be installed after the shell is complete, so I have some time to continue my research of where they should be placed.
 
The first step will be to cut out the centerpiece of the plug, and then use that as a guide when building the keel. This is an approach that I picked up in Wintergreens log of Kågen.
Cheers

Thank you! I will email WorldPay and ask them why you had a problem, they are usually very good.
 
Nothing much to update right now. I have commissioned three sizes of carronade to me done for me, for future kits and separate fittings. I am currently working on PE sets for each size of cannon and carronade, as I have the cannon barrels being cast for me not and will be delivered next month. So I will be able to offer the carriage, PE detail (eyebolts etc.) and cast black resin barrels from 4-32-pounder sizes (64th only)
 
The royal yacht is still on target for an October/early November release. There will be no hold ups for any materials as I already have everything for the kit with me (apart from print work, which cannot be done until manual and prototype model is complete). I start cutting the production parts for this next week.
 
I think I will do a few more sizes of ships boats after the yacht, plus ships stoves, as I shall need them for future designs anyway.

Experience/Thoughts from a New Ship Builder:
 
My very first ship build was the plastic Revell USS Constitution 1:196 Scale (completed). This was a challenging build even though it was a plastic kit. It was challenging because being from the Midwest, I knew absolutely nothing of ships. I think one of the most important skills I learned from this build was the concept of rigging. I probably spent as much time on the rigging as I did the rest of the boat. Either way this got me really interested in age of sail boats. 
 
Although I really enjoyed building the USS Constitution, there were not many options for age of sail ships in the plastic variety. I started the larger Revell USS Constitution 1:96 (abandoned) but quickly lost interest. I spent a lot of time painting parts and quickly realized that although painting is fun, it was not overly challenging nor a major area of interest. I enjoyed the "build" not the "paint". 
 
This led me to endeavor down the road of wooden ship models. I felt that with wooden ships it was much more about the "build" than the "paint". I also noticed immediately that there were many more options for ships in the wood category than in the plastic.
 
My very first wood ship build was the Model Shipways 18th Century Longboat 1:48 Scale (MS1457) (completed). I purchased this kit because Model Expo offered a kit that included "everything you need" including the starter set of tools. I quote this because it was far from the truth in my opinion. I figured with it being small and having a starter kit, that it meant it was a starter boat. Many frustrations and learning experiences with this build. I later found out it was considered a more "advanced" or "expert" level kit because of it's size. I found this frustrating because if this was an advanced boat kit, wouldn't the builder already have the starter set of tools they sell with it?? Either way I did finish the build and was very happy with it. 
 
After travel for work gave me an opportunity to see the Cutty Sark and the USS Constitution in person, my interest in the hobby was supercharged and I decided that I wanted to build a gun ship. So I acquired Model Shipways Rattlesnake US Privateer 1:64 Scale (MS2028) (abandoned, for now). I assumed being a larger ship this would be easier to build than the longboat. I got discouraged in the build primarily due to the daunting size of it. Being much larger also meant much much more details and many many more parts. I got the framing built up and got close to the planking steps but I think I began to realize I was way over my head on this build. Even though I completed the longboat, my skills were not where they needed to be for a build like the Rattlesnake. So this project has sat collecting dust.
 
After the attempt on the Rattlesnake, my enthusiasm for the hobby was crushed and I have spent the last couple years on other hobbies (wood turning). 
 
I am now in the process of moving and I will be moving back to an apartment and I will not have the space or location to continue with wood turning and my hobby space will be greatly limited. As such, I have decided to go back to wooden ship models but I decided to go back to the beginning to build up my skills. So I am returning to the hobby with an absolute beginners mindset, although I did acquire quite a few tools for the hobby so I am well set to resume/restart.
 
As a fun small project prior to moving and getting settled into my new place in a week, I have been working on a ship in a bottle. Just a small basic USS constitution kit I found on Amazon. But I have already purchased my next ship kit. I noticed that Model Expo has begun a shipwright series geared towards brand new builders. As I understand it, the series is designed to walk you through the learning process where each ship in the series builds upon the skills acquired on the previous build. This to me sounds like a perfect path to skill building. There are only 2 ships released in the series so far but I hope that by the time I complete them, the 3rd one will be released.
 
My next "first" build will be the Model Shipways Lowell Grand Banks Dory 1:24 Scale (MS1470). I only purchased the kit and the paint this time. However this kit does have a starter tools kit that can be purchased as a bundle. But since I already have the tools, I didn't see the need. If you're starting from scratch, this set makes sense to get the starter tool kit in the package as it is truly a starter kit. I have opened the box and that is about it. I want to get setup at my new place before beginning. The kit is very basic and I think it will be a very easy build. But I look forward to it as I believe it will provide a good foundation for the next build. This dory does not have a mast so it's just the hull, but seems like a good first step as I will relearn building the hull and basic planking. 
 
When this is done, I plan to move on to the 2nd ship in the shipwright series which I was just recently released. The Norwegian Sailing Pram 1:12 Scale (MS1471). This kit has a single mast and sail and will involve some basic rigging. It appears to be the next logical step in the learning process.
 
I do intend to start and maintain build logs on each of these builds. I think keeping the logs will not only help me to share knowledge and learning lessons along the way, but I feel it will help reinforce my own knowledge. 
 
I do apologize for the length of this post, but I felt I should share it to this thread because the purpose of this thread is to help other new builders to avoid the exact issue(s) that were mentioned that I experienced myself.