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Druxey, Same sheets mentioned for Don above... 1) ... no chocks to be any larger on any Floor Timber than will admit... 2) Lower Futtocks ... to have chocks across the heels of them... and that they scarph on the Second Futtock... 3) Second Futtocks... Scarph... to the Third Futtocks 4) Third Futtocks ... give scarph to the Fourth Futtocks Seemed to differentiate clearly where there were chocks and where there were scarphs so that is what I think I did if I read it correctly. If I'm wrong please let me know. If I'm right please don't stop asking! Alan

Good evening Don, The information is in the contract on the 4th and 5th sheets. Floor timbers 26 ft in length at midships; molded at the heads 13-1/2" Lower Futtock molded at the heads 12-3/4" Second Futtock molded at the heads 12-1/4" Third Futtock molded at the heads 11-5/6" and in and out at the Gun Deck 11-1/2" Fourth Futtock molded, or in and out at the range of the Upper Deck Water Ways 10-1/2" Top Timbers molded at the top in midships 5-1/2", abaft 5-5/8", at the Beakhead 6-1/4", at the Fiferail from the Second Drift to the Stern Timber 4-1/2", from the Drift Forward in the Wake of the Timber Heads 5-1/2" I just use a polyline to blend between the points. Alan

Slipped out at lunch and bought 1 yard of 40 lb test monofilament fishing line at 0.024" dia x 64 = 1.536" dia I will do some glue testing over the next few days It was indeed 3 cents a yard so 109 yards would be $3.27 I'll have to start making some local calls for a supply of Black as this stuff is Green ... mind you it does seem black when viewing the cut end... hmmm

I looked again and didn't see the length .... and then I realized I needed to scroll down! Doh Some days I do things my dad would do... and he was just being old. OMG I'm old!

Ed Thank you for the link. Those prices are considerably less. Did you purchase the spool or the box? Any idea what length (feet) was supplied at that price Alan

Druxey, Sorry for the late reply. Although I've seen a few references showing in different ways (Cross chocks and scarph joints; cross chocks, futtock chocks; cross chocks, futtock chocks and then scarph joints at higher elevations), but I believe the contract reads scarph joints at the futtocks with the exception of the floor timber to futtock joint which would be the next or adjacent frames which can be seen in the first image / sketch. When I get home tonight I will re-read those sheets (and they can be tough to understand), scan and post. Would they call a chock a scarph joint? Alan

On another note... rather than cut monofilament line off my fly reel I called "the" tackle shop and they sell 40 lb test line at 3 cents a yard (seems cheap to me... I am expecting it to be 30 cents when I get there). The 40 lb test is extremely close in diameter to my 1-1/2" diameter bolts or AWG 22 gauge copper wire. Unfortunately he only has GREEN (a very popular colour) but good enough to test gluing it into wood. If it works for me I can buy the black line at Canadian Tire, but it ain't cheap. Compared to copper wire and blackening I suppose it is a wash. Let you know how it works out.

Unfortunately I will not get to working on cutting more wood until the weekend as my evenings are quite short making it difficult to get into it. So I spend the short time through the week working on my frame templates. Here is a description of what I am up to in my creation of frame templates following the train of thought of an earlier posting some time ago (POSTING #102 on PAGE 7) when I was working things out. After outlining the complete frame (see earlier posting) at the particular station I now trace in the cross chock and all the various scarph joints for the adjacent four frames up to the next station. They are used as a reference on the other frames. As frame shapes begin to change drastically I will need to geometrically create the proper offset to relocate them. I then loft the hull (or more correctly a one piece solid frame) between stations. In this sample it is at dead flat out both directions to ( B ) and ( 2 ) I then draw in the “spaces” between the frames and cut them away to reveal the individual frames. In this location the spaces are a mere ¼”. In the pic below the adjacent frames are turned off to reveal only one that I will be working on. I then open (or create) the plane cutting through the centre of the frame and open a sketch and trace the cross chock and particular scarph joints for that frame Finally, looking straight onto the frame I see the frame shape and cutlines I will insert this “section” view of this frame on my template sheet to be printed to 1:64 scale. Once again as the frame shape begins to change drastically I may see the hidden lines depicting the cut angle... we will have to wait and see. It is a long drawn out (excuse the pun) exercise but I will have what I want in the end. A few done but many more to go. I may not post anymore on the making of frame templates except to possibly show progress on the cant frames and aft and also to post PDFs of the drawings when I am done. (Don't want to bore anyone)

Unfortunately I am the touchy feely kind of learner, where lessons better learnt by doing... so I'd rather not find out the hard way but I am sure I may somewhere down the road. As for merit points... that is for boy scouts and girl guides....... I was a Sea Cadet! I was taught to lead by example of which two men come to mind (Lt. Ken Garner and Cdr Admundson) as having made an impression of the type of leader I hope to be one day when I finally do grow up. So I came in to work because someone might be depending on me to do the right thing.... while all those wooses I work with slept in because it's a blizzard out there. Hello, this is Canada, it snows here in the winter!

Possibly I should not have bothered with the snow this morning as it is 8:18 am and I am the only fool that seems to have made it in to work... damn Subaru

Okay Druxey and Mark. I had planned on cutting and dry fitting the whole shabang before gluing anything. But now I'll be wondering how I'll drill and bolt (pin) the pieces properly when it is one large assembly I'll be swinging around I was thinking I would do the three sub-assemblies - stem post assembly - stern post assembly - keel, false keel and rising wood Then I'd put these sub-assemblies together It must be possible as 'youse guys' (as we say in Ontario) have surely done it. 5am, time to shovel snow or I'll never get to work today.... hmmmm, that would make more time for modeling. Alan

Thank you Mark That was my initial thought but I didn't want to jump in and bugger that piece also so thought it was best t walk away and come at it fresh. It is nice to have someone who knows what they are doing come to the same conclusion I think I'll stack the one on the other and attempt to trace the correcting cut line I suspect it will not take much.... but not tonight Alan

Ed, I was a bit concerned about my choice of using the rubber cement because of your comment regarding not being a fan of it. So far it seemed to have worked well ... but it is quite early in the game yet. On another note, I will be cutting some monofilament line from my fly rod reel to test using it as per your response to my PM. Possibly it needs to be roughed up a bit for the glue to anchor in. Of course it is much lighter and GREEN as opposed to the black line you just used on your YA to simulate the bolts. If it works I'll need to purchase a supply of black line.... that or copper wire and blackening. Alan

Today I finally started... sort of - milled down a strip of hemlock to the larger (inboard) thickness of 2'-2" (= 0.406" at 1/64th). I managed to get 0.4045" - rubber cemented my templates to the strip of wood - rough cut out my very first piece staying close to or just outside the line - cut all other pieces - sanded into shape and fitted together Everything looks reasonably good when clamped finger tight ... except for the Gammoning Knee pieces. The outer (forward) half does not sit correctly. Flipped it over to inspect the reverse and again it is those two piece When I remove them they fit together nicely all on their own. Time to walk away and come at it fresh another day. Not sure if this piece is salvageable or not. I am obviously no cabinet maker and think I might need a small oscillating drum sander to assure I get a level sanded edge on those inside radii. I took a lesson out of TFFM. I milled a piece of oak to use as my chiseling base when cutting the scarphs and it made a big difference. (Thank you David and Greg for a wonderful reference)

I finished up my modelling table last couple of weekends - glued and dowel pinned trim on the edges, planed and sanded the edges - primed and finished painted both tops and also the underside of the tilting half only You will notice it blends in nicely with the workroom walls (I had paint left over) Then I worked on marking the tilt top with reference lines for the model build - center line - station lines - fore and aft cant line angles Debating whether I should mark the frame locations I chose to draw it rather than lay a print down as this would have been closer to how the actual build would likely have been done (in my mind anyway). I will spray seal it next weekend so the pencil marks stay clean and unsmudged Presently it is stored under a sheet of plastic to keep the dust off I also pulled all the nails from my second pile of eastern hemlock lathe I salvaged from my son's home. I now have at least twice this amount (likely more) to do my model. Although I continue to draw up the frames to make my templates (which a sampling of will be posted down the road) ... it looks like I'll be finally cutting some wood and starting the build tomorrow.... I cut out a few pieces from my printed template of the bow (from the gripe upwards). I will start by milling down some of the lathe and rubber cementing the templates to it to cut out... just like they did in the 1700's???

Hope you are prepared for a flood of messages Absolutely stunning, beautiful, what a masterpiece....... WOW!

Thank you Druxey I could not have managed properly on my own Learn something new with every baby step Printed off the plan this morning $4.30 for a 36 x 60 sheet and it scales perfectly Alan

I just changed the attachment rev3 to include the outline of the timber locations the "circles" with a vertical line highlight the locations where the timber thickness and space change

After many hours scouring NMM collections, reviewing online books (because nothing I have here helps) and some tutoring, cyber hand holding and a gentle rap (or two) to the back of the head..... I have it. The attached is being printed today and cutting will begin very soon. PLAN_Keel + Posts layout_rev3.pdf I made sure the scarphs were located so each were over a floor timber per the contract specification. I am still working on sketching the frames at each station to be made solid, sliced up into each individual frame, 3D modelled and dropped into drawing sheets to create these templates. This will be posted at some time in the future.

Richard, Thank you for the link! Mike, I see the felt used in David Antscherl's volume 1 of The Fully Framed Model Alan

I seem to think this may be the first time I've seen anyone actually use tissue paper in the scarph joint. Most that want the joints to stand out use blackened wood glue. Very interested in hearing how it holds up.... or you've seen it used before?

Are you suggesting I move the Stemson to Keelson scarph aft? It was one of the very few shown on the original plan. I understand the shipwright used the plan as a "guide" and followed their good judgment while keeping to the contract. I must admit making that change does look better. seems like a visit to NMM this evening is in order ... followed by a revision to my revision.

Relocated the Keelson scarphs after having looked at the plates in Ree's Naval Archetecture and Cyclopaediaie Vol3 (which were the same) of the normal length 74 (180 feet) and a shorter Frigate of 38 guns (154 feet ) Dwg attached revised PLAN_Keel + Posts layout.pdf

Thank you Mark ( I know, I've been following). 1:64 is definitely the smallest scale I dare attempt at this stage. On another note I have been advised my Keelson scarph joints may be located incorrectly. The contract reads that the Keelson shall be constructed of not more than 6 pieces and that the scarf joint is 5'-5" long It however does not say where they should be located and the Arrogant class ship at 168 feet long (stem post to stern post) is shorter than any references I have for a 74 gun 3rd rate ship of the line that show locations. I am certain the shipwrights didn't need to be told where to put them, but alas, as a Sea Cadet I was a Boatswain (Bos'n) not a Shipwright. It was suggested via PM that the Keelson joints should be half way between the Keel joints (which were shown on the ship plans) and that they should not fall under a Mast Step. I will relocate them per these guidelines and re-post. Thank you for the help.

Red Green (google him) always says " if they (women) don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy" You may not think it is a good looking fix but as a Red Green fan I think you did an awesome job.... and no duct tape!!! Seriously now... good job, and glad to hear you enjoy yours as much as I do mine!