USS Constitution by Modeler12 - FINISHED - Model Shipways

[popeye2sea]

Henry (or others familiar with the ship) here is another question about the rigging of braces.

 

Pardon me Henry, I 'stole' part of your picture below, and I hope you don't mind. But towards the top you can see another brace. It is the fore topsail brace (two actually). But it is not quite clear where those lines go after they come back from the fore topsail yard. They will come down, I hope, (like Newton's apples), but how?

Connie 561.jpg

 

The plan shows arrows pointing down. Petersson's drawings are much more complicated. 

topsail brace 10.jpg

 

But how is it on the Connie today? Are there more fairleads or bullseyes involved? Otherwise, I would think we have the same problem as I mentioned above with the fore jack braces interfering with the sail below. ?????

 

Jay,

The lead block for the fore topsail braces runs essentially the same as the fore brace.  In the photo that I have the lead block is either attached to the trestle trees of the topmast or the collar of the stay close under the cross tree, I can't tell which in the photo.

 

I have lots of photos of the ship.  There is absolutely no need to be out in this weather taking more.  I just blow up sections of the ones I have.

 

Regards,

[Modeler12]

I think you have to go through and delete old conversations ...

But I like to talk, Steve. 

I did as George suggested and hope I did not lose my friends.

[Modeler12]

Jay,

The lead block for the fore topsail braces runs essentially the same as the fore brace.  In the photo that I have the lead block is either attached to the trestle trees of the topmast or the collar of the stay close under the cross tree, I can't tell which in the photo.

 

I have lots of photos of the ship.  There is absolutely no need to be out in this weather taking more.  I just blow up sections of the ones I have.

 

Regards,

Henry, I will do the same as you suggested. Lead block to the top etc.

But believe me, you have been a wonderful source for details. Thanks again.

Keep warm.

[Force9]

Olof Erikson compared the Hull model to Brady and has the fore topsail braces rigged thus:

 

"Hitch to the mainstay collar, and reeve the fall through the brace block on the yardarm, back thru a single leading block seized on the mainstay collar fore of the mouse, through the inner sheave of the double leading blocks on the mainmast bibs, thru the swivel in the main U fife rail and belay there"

 

Whew!

 

Evan

[Modeler12]

Olof Erikson compared the Hull model to Brady and has the fore topsail braces rigged thus:

 

"Hitch to the mainstay collar, and reeve the fall through the brace block on the yardarm, back thru a single leading block seized on the mainstay collar fore of the mouse, through the inner sheave of the double leading blocks on the mainmast bibs, thru the swivel in the main U fife rail and belay there"

 

Whew!

 

Evan

Evan, that is essentially the same what Henry suggested, but it adds another block on the mainstay. I think I will keep it simple as I did with the fore jack braces. Thanks for your comment.

[Force9]

It struck me as a combination of the Petersen version and what Henry provided. I can certainly understand the need to keep things simple!

 

Evan

[Modeler12]

It struck me as a combination of the Petersen version and what Henry provided. I can certainly understand the need to keep things simple!

 

Evan

Actually, Evan, it was the picture that Petersson showed that got me thinking about this subject. He shows the topsail braces going forward along the main stay after they come back from the yard. I thought that was a very complicated arrangement, Hence, my inquiry.

The fore jack braces below the topsail are as you mentioned.

 

[cog]

Maybe this proves helpfull/sheds a light on the topic

 

The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War.Brace Top Sail.pdf

 

(Jay: Je weet nooit hoe een koe een haas vangt...)

[Modeler12]

Maybe this proves helpfull/sheds a light on the topic

 

The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War.Brace Top Sail.pdf

 

(Jay: Je weet nooit hoe een koe een haas vangt...)

Great stuff, Carl. Now I understand where all those variations came from. It has to do with the time frame!!!

Since all along I have been thinking that my version might have been around the late 1800s, I feel better about what I ended up doing.

 

I had to grin and explain to my wife what you wrote about the cow and rabbit. It reminded me also of my dad who could pull these Dutch proverbs out of a hat all day long. As a kid I always thought he talked in riddles.

[Force9]

Very interesting... That overview suggests (if I interpret correctly) that the practice outlined by Olof Eriksen didn't kick in until 1830.  The Hull model, however, apparently shows the brace passing thru a block in front of the mouse and thence thru a block on the mainmast and down to the fife rail.  The crew built that model in 1812.  Go figure.

 

It may be that the US Navy adopted this approach long before the RN.

 

Evan

[Modeler12]

I mentioned that I had to do some repair and fine tuning. Here is one example of where in the future I need to take a bit more care.

It involves the three steel rods that help to hold the bumpkin in place. It is the place where the main jack brace comes down from the right and goes through a sheave in the side of the hull. The bumpkin is the beam that sticks out away from the hull to the far aft end.

 

The rods had come loose. I had simply butted them against the hull with a dab of epoxy. I took them off and this time drilled three holes where the rods go into the hull. A tiny drop of epoxy and some black paint took care of it. 
One thing about taking these close up pictures is that it shows every imperfection. I still have to straighten the rod to the left a bit.

 

I had encountered more major problems like this when I relied on the glue to simply hold things in place. Now I know that I have to do more and anchor 'furniture' and other items more securely.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Modeler12

[Modeler12]

This is for my records.

 

Fore topsail brace: Hitched to mainmast stay. .014 inch 
To yard with a .014" lead and 4mm WW block.

Back to 4mm block attached to top with eyebolt, epoxy.

Down to deck via inside top #152, 153.

 

  

 

Keep loose until braces are lined up with spar both p/s.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Modeler12

[Modeler12]

Every time, before I go to bed, I look at my Connie and have nightmares about her tangled lines. Well, not really tangled, but confusing, and then again, I know what each one of those represent. None are redundant!!

 

But I show these two pictures because when taking shots, the background may make a difference. I use a sheet of matting material for most of what I shoot.

I should try some light grey.

  

 

Which brings me to the subject of 'display cases'. But I will have more about that later.

[GLakie]

Nice work Jay! The spiders have certainly been busy! 

 

Cheers

[Modeler12]

Here are my first thoughts about a display case.

The admiral agreed to display this model instead of giving it away to friends or other good causes. The attic was one choice, my office second, but we did decide the 'family room' was best. I have built a lot of furniture and in that room it is mostly oak. So, oak it will be for the display case.

 

I already mentioned that the ship will be against a wall with the starboard tack outwards. With the model in that position I measured the interior dimensions needed, then started with the wood. The rough sketch below is my first crack at doing it that way.

I plan on using plain glass for the front, top and two sides. The back drop will be something else. But I do want a door to get the lady in and out when necessary. So, the left side will have a glass door (and plenty of room to slide the model in and out).

The blue arrow is the most common view point. 

 

The table will have a design similar to what we already have. It will be 37 inches high. That would be enough to clear the back of all or most couches or recliner chairs that we could put in front or at an angle. It could have shelves or not (tbdt).That's how I arrived at the basic dimensions shown below. We will see if this flies.

But now back to refining; which is what I should have been doing instead of dreaming.

 

 

[GLakie]

  That's almost identical to a design I came up with for mine when I get to it. Only on mine the front will be the door I can raise and lock in the up position, and the lower part of the stand will be on wheels with a cabinet that can be used for storage. 

  Dreaming?--- It's always good to have a plan in advance that you can change or adapt to suit your needs before you start, so you're not diving into a project blind and have to correct mistakes.

 

Cheers 

[robnbill]

You might look at tablelegs.com for legs and aprons. They have many designs and have quite a few different woods you can get each one from. They were a delight to work with on my table and the product I received was fantastic. I decided to go with them since I wanted turned and fluted legs. While I probably could have done that, it would have taken a ling time and really is not my forte. 

 

There is a low iron type of glass that is optically transparent. I used ¼ tempered in mine. I ditched the hinged door to opt for a lift in. My plans are for it to be almost invisible once it is closed. It will be impossible to get the door off without using the suction handles on the glass. otherwise, no access! 

 

I raised the bottom of the platform because I wanted the line of sight to be higher since it will be displayed in our foyer so everyone will be standing when they look at it. So the base of the case will be 3 ½ inches above the table top with the table top being 30" off the floor. Raising the bottom of the case itself allows clear line of sight from the top of the mainmast to a viewer 5' from the case (5'8" to the eyes). I did not want anyone from having to duck to see the top. 

[Modeler12]

I really appreciate your comments, fellows. 

Here are some more of my thoughts:

 

The table design should correspond to the furniture I made some time ago. Hence the legs will have the same look as shown below. However, the table will be a lot higher with book shelves underneath. I don't think I will incorporate drawers.
Since the whole will be up against a wall and be rather permanent and stable, I will fasten the case to the wall. No need to move it.
I also think that most viewing will be while standing up. Hence the keel of the ship will be approximately 40 inches off the floor. This also gives me clearance for a recliner chair which may sit off to the left and partially block that corner. The low table shown below will also be in that location, thus preventing very close contact with the glass case.
   

I believe double pane glass will be sufficient. If this display were to be in our entry hall, I would be more concerned and use better glass like you, Bill.

I have two spot lights in the ceiling, and that will be the main source of light (glass top). The back will be solid with a painted background or possibly a mat or cloth material.

We will see how this goes when I put the drawings together. These are just some thoughts.

[Modeler12]

Here is the first trial of mounting the whale boats. 

Just as I expected there is interference with the brace line coming from the main jack. It rubs against the boat which already is pushed against the shrouds.

I will put another eyebolt on the bumkin out as far as I can. Then the brace should clear the boat.

But on the starboard side the line goes lower and further forward, and the problem may be worse.

And yes, there is much more to those davits. Lot more lines and a 'griping spar' near the top holding the davits in place. One step at a time.

The boats and braces have hooks, so they can be removed easily and adjustments are easily made. In fact this boat belongs on the starboard side. The covered boat will be on port against the wall when displayed. 

       

Edited February 3, 2015 by Modeler12

[Modeler12]

Danger!

This is something you don't want to do every day.

 

All along I have not been happy with the shape of the sails. I have followed what others have done such as use a fan to fill the sails while spraying hair spray or starch. I had limited success. The sails still looked 'droopy'.

 

So, I decided to let gravity do the job, mounted the ship in a vise and applied diluted white glue to the sails with a brush and a small spray bottle. Then I put some rocks on various spots until the 'bulge' looked about right.

Now it is a matter of letting this air dry until tomorrow. We'll see what comes from all of this.

   

[GLakie]

Hope it works out OK Jay. Precarious to say the least. 

 

Cheers 

[popeye2sea]

Stand by for heavy rolls as the ship is coming about!

[Modeler12]

Stand by for heavy rolls as the ship is coming about!

. . . . and watch out for those rocks coming down.

 

You know, I expected some parts to fall down as I turned Connie on this 'dive'. Nothing happened!

If this works, I also want to redo the jibs and spanker this way.

[popeye2sea]

Says a lot for your solid construction. If I did that with mine you would hear the loose cannon rolling across the gun deck.  Seems the crew did not get the word early enough to lash the great guns properly when the ship pitched deep.  I even managed to recreate Constitutions damage from the collision of 1803 with President.  Although truth be told my models sudden pitching forward was not planned or controlled like yours.

 

Regards,

[Modeler12]

Ok Henry, I am sure you are full of 'stories' such as this one. 

But I actually expected damage when the ship took this dive, but no such 'luck'. 

 

The upshot was that I didn't wait. The sails were dry and I wanted to see if my method worked. Here are the before and after shots. 

It is not perfect, but pictures do not show the sentiments involved when my admiral said 'Whowwweee, clean laundry'..

I think I will try the same with the other sails. 

    

 

Keep in mind that right from the start I wanted to show this ship on a starboard tack. The wind is coming from about three o'clock, hence the spars are pointed at a sharp angle. This way I wanted to show the rigging from behind the sail and all the other goodies that go with it. However, I will not list the ship towards the lee side. She will be a proud lady.
 

Besides the netting on the rail and the boats along sides, the last thing I will add are the flags and they will correspond to this tack and the wind direction. More about this later.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Modeler12

[GLakie]

Congrats Jay! Be careful with the others. 

 

Cheers

[Modeler12]

Congrats Jay! Be careful with the others. 

 

Cheers

Thanks, George. 

All I have to do is remount the lady in a vise, level her to my liking and add some white stuff to her aft.

 

[Fam]

Hi Modeler12

I tried this with great success:

- prepare diluted white glue 50-50, or 40 glue+60 water

- brush the diluted glue directly on the sail, on the side blown by the wind. Use a quite large but soft brush

- while applying the glue, at the same time blow the sail from the same side with a hair-dryer set to mid temperature and high fan. I know, you'll maybe need a 3rd hand but we are accostumed to this, are we?

- continue brushing the glue while at the same time it is drying , insist where you want a more bulky belly

 

Combined pressure from brush and blown air shapes the sail quite well, the glue sets quickly thanks to warm air and the shape is maintained. But if you are not satisfied, apply more diluted glue to the position you want modify and blow until dried.

Final looking is matt, color of the fabric is not altered.

 

You can do this directly on the installed and completed sail, with no need to tilt the entire ship (OMG!!! imagine if the vise fails!!!)

 

Bye

Fam

 

PS: Test separately to see how it works, as always!

Edited February 6, 2015 by Fam

[usedtosail]

Wow, Jay, you are a brave man! The sails do look really good after the procedure, though.

[Modeler12]

Wow, Jay, you are a brave man! The sails do look really good after the procedure, though.

Thanks Tom. And because it worked well, I will do the spanker and jib sails this way also.

 

Fam, when I made the sails I used essentially the method you suggest above. However, I used starch. 

The problem I had was that the hair dryer was either not strong enough or I did something not quite right. While blowing the hot air into the sails they tended to flutter. This resulted in some wavy shapes.

That is why I decided to use the 'static' approach and let the glue cure/dry with the sail in the position I want.