US Brig Niagara by mikiek - FINISHED - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64 - First wooden ship build

[6ohiocav]

Mike,

 

If I understand your question, I believe the course sling indeed runs through the square hole in front of the tree. My opinion on that is from a review of multiple places in the plan, and really comes into play by looking at the diagram of the tree and the reference to the sling bolster (a small rounded off length of timber that the sling runs over) and the sling hole. I attached a photo.

 

I also attached a photo of the plans that indicates, unclearly, that the sling runs UNDER the shrouds.  The last photo is of the diagram you speak of, and it clearly indicates that the sling wraps around the mast head.

 

Taken all together, I assumed the sling wrapped around the masthead above the tree and ran through the square hole in front. Considering the placement of the Course yard on my model, that makes perfect sense from a mechanical perspective.

[mikiek]

As usual I have not read the inset thoroughly. I see what you are saying. I was describing the truss and you the sling. I have done the sling although I forgot to serve it. And the inset for the truss has the terrible detail picture to the left. Below is the plan then Lever follows

 

 

 

 

Sorry for my confusion.

 

[mikiek]

Stumped again. And I believe I have put up a reasonable search of the plans. Where does the fore top stay fasten to on the bowsprit? The plans show it turning into a dashed line right before the bowsprit. If I am deciphering correctly, does it tie off on the bee? One of those holes? Which side or does it matter?

 

Also, the royal stay runs down to the flying jib boom, then under and back into the dolphin striker. There it magically appears to turn into a backrope. This is the same rope, right?

 

You out there Darrell?

[6ohiocav]

Mike,

Here is your answer.  The topmast stay runs through the forward hole in the Bee.  I attached a deadeye to an eyebolt on the starboard side of the hull and attached the end with a lanyard.  The Inner Jib Stay runs through the other hole and is attached to the port side the same way.  At least that is how I did it.

[mikiek]

AAAaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

 

Thanks man.

[mikiek]

The neat freak in me REALLY wants to clean this up.

 

 

 

So far this is the hardest part of rigging. Having the self control to leave it all alone until it's ready.

[milosmail]

This may have been previously stated, but... When you set the mast(s), be very sure you start attaching lines from the inside (i.e. closest to the center line) out. But, attach ratline shrouds first, to stabilize the masts, then all the standing rigging. Then any running rigging you want to add. You may want to put some running rigging on, such as sheets, braces, halyards that would normally be present on an operating ship at dock. Even without sails present.

[mikiek]

Steve - I like the idea. Braces I was planning on. I see halyards & sheets on the plans but they're all attached to sails. Not sure where they would fasten to if there were no sail.

[mikiek]

Have been trying to finish a RC speedboat this week - spent precious little time on rigging. Now I'm in the usual position, don't remember a dang thing about where I was or what I was doing. Took one look at that pile of string - do you remember Lurch from The Adams Family, Uhuhuhuhuhahahahahahaaaaaaaa.

[mikiek]

I've been stumped on how to fasten some of the fore stays to the mast. There are 3 that finish at the fore top mast head,but it is difficult to determine if they are seized (don't think so), or eyespliced & moused (more likely). I found a few pix showing the top fore stay with the standard eyespliced end looped around the masthead and moused. Since the inner jib stay is the opposing line I will assume it is fastens the same way.

 

So I'm still stuck on the outer jib stay.

[6ohiocav]

Mike,

 

On the real ship, I am sure these three stays are attached with an eye splice.  However, the small diameter of line we are using at our scale convinced me that an eye splice made no sense and would have been simply too difficult. I therefore decided to tie a whipping knot, which I might add, visually looks a little like an eye splice anyway. Besides, the knots are now totally hidden with all of the clutter of shrouds, halliards, stays, and other lines that I have since added, so that you can't even see them anyway.

 

Make this simple.  Just whip it.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by 6ohiocav

[mikiek]

Found a good way to eyesplice for stays. Since they are served it's pretty easy.

On a serving machine put one end of your rope with at least 3/8" inside the clip so that it is not served. I do this left side to right so this end is in the left clip. Serve about 1/2"-3/4" starting at the left clip moving right.

 

 

 

 

Put a spot of CA at the end of the serve cut the thread, tie a half hitch and CA that. Take rope out of machine. Trim the left end so there is 3/8" unserved rope. Unravel the end of the rope all the way to where the serving starts.

 

 

Fold the rope over at the half way point of the serving. Where the serving starts and ends should be together now, you should have a loop of served rope and the unfrayed end should overlay.

 

 

 

Now for the cheating part. Put some CA on the unfrayed strands and then twist them around the other side of the rope. You may need to do this twice but when complete all the unfrayed strands are now glued to the other side and you have a served loop.

 

 

Clip the served loop into the left clip on the serve machine. Pull the rope tight and clip rope into the right clip. Take your serving thread and tie a half hitch right where the two served ends meet. The idea here is you are going to serve over the unfrayed rope that is now glued to the other end. This will cover up any messyness from the fake eyesplice. Serve a few inches or so and you should be ready to add your mouse.

 

 

 

[mikiek]

Nothing like a good hurricane to make for some quality building time

[mikiek]

A little rigging underway

 

 

There's more but the rest of the pix came out lousy. I think I need to make the back ground a little less busy.

 

Main top and top gallant are in place now - no glue. Still have not stepped the main yet. That is going to be a logistical nightmare. I'm already bumping the royal on my bench light fixtures. Putting them on the hull will add another 5"-6".  Don't even want to think about the bowsprit.

[6ohiocav]

Well done Mike.

[mikiek]

Thank you Darrell. I've had a lot of time since Friday to work on this. Rain has even kept the shop nice & cool.  I could get used to this - minus the water.

 

Hey I posted this in a separate thread but no response. What does it mean when the plans say a rope should be belayed to itself?

Edited August 27, 2017 by mikiek

[mikiek]

Well like I said, nothing like a hurricane to get you some quality build time. I'm starting to string up the 2nd mast. Will be doing this one in a different order. For the main I did top to lower, then top gallant to top. Probably the best approach but that mast got tall in a hurry. Bench lights and upper cabinet doors are clobbering the thing while I work on it. Add another 4"-5" being stepped in the boat and it's going to get worse.

 

So for the fore mast I'm doing top to lower, then stepping lower into the hull and finishing all the lower rigging. I'll do the top gallant down the road.

 

But that puts me at the time to step both masts to the hull. I'm trying to think of last minute items to do before then.  So fill in this sentence - Before you step the mast be sure you _____________.

 

The pix are still coming out lousy even though I tried a background this time. Sorry.

 

 

 

 

Well here's proof I have been working. 100 meters of thread used for serving and seizing the larger ropes. I panicked until I found a new spool. Can't get much in the way of supplies right now. The whole city seems like it is shut down.

 

 

 

 

[mikiek]

Continuing on in my tradition of really bad pix, here's a few that show the main mast actually stepped. That's like in place. Not coming out again. I must say the Lauck St. tutorials on this topic really made it pretty easy.

 

 

 

 

Still trying to get as far as I can with out doing anything with the bow spars. The main shrouds are not very tight. I believe adding ratlines, sheerpoles, etc should stiffen them up some. Catharpins too.   Oh yes, how about the blue trimmed long boat. Gonna put that on the deck rather than the quarter davits. It still has a way to go.

 

I sure do feel like putting the strings aside and doing some woodwork.

[6ohiocav]

Mike,

 

Looks great. Love the long boat.

 

As long as the shrouds "look" tight, you will be fine. the catharpins will definitely help that issue.

 

[mikiek]

Hey Darrell - thanks. Catharpins - another one of those not too clear items on the plans. I'm looking around for other renditions. Did you do them before the rats or after?

[mikiek]

OK - getting into some work on the belay pins - fastening the rope and adding a coil. Disclaimer - I didn't invent any of this. It's just how I decided to do it after looking around a little. It's pretty easy and I like easy. So this is about any rope that ends up at a belay pin.

 

The most important thing is that your rope make it to the pin and still have an extra 2". You'll see why in a minute. So maybe you've seen the video where the do the X thing to get the rope started on the pin. You could still do it if you want but totally unnecessary. Wrap the rope around the pin under the rail and put a dot of CA to hold it in place.

 

 

A little jig to wrap the rope. How far apart are the pins? About as far as the belay rail to the waterway - your mileage may vary.

 

 

Using the same size rope as what is glued to the belay pin, wrap some around the 2 pins. Number of coils may vary. You could just do 5-6 for every pin and it would probably look just fine. Or you could rough size each individually. Either way, when you are done cover each end (where the rope does the 180) with CA. Yes you could use white glue too or even watered down white glue. I used CA so it dries quick. MAKE SURE you get the 2 ends glued well.

 

After about a minute (longer with white glue) slide the coil up a bit so it doesn't get glued to the base of the jig. Give it another minute or two to dry.

 

 

I have these paddle nose tweezers that made it easy to grab the entire coil without deforming the coil too much.

 

 

 

Use some pointy tweezers to spread open the coil a little. CAREFULLY.  Snip off the two loose ends as close to the coil as possible. You want to hide the ends.

 

 

 

Here's why you needed that extra 2" at the end of your real rope. You want to thread the end thru the coil.

 

 

Slide the coil down to the rail and then wrap the excess around the top of the pin one time. Bring the end around in front of the coil and add a spot of CA.

 

At this point the coil is in place but you may need  to wrestle with it a little to get it set the way you want. It may even take another couple dots of CA. Don't open the coil up too much as it will have neighbors pretty soon and it may get crowded.

 

Hope this helps. At least help me remember how to do it in a few months.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2017 by mikiek

[Nirvana]

Will print this out once back home, perfect for my be laying in the future

 

[mikiek]

Dr. Per - how good to hear from you!  Sounds like you may be on the road? Did you ever finish the antique boat you were building? There's one I'm going to pick up pretty soon. It has an RC option and I am waiting for the drive to be available so I can get it all at once. It's the Amati Riva Aquarama.

[Nirvana]

Mike, life and work has an ability to take you away from the building table.

Currently I have three ships/boats going....... 

Right now the Bluenose has gotten the attention.

 

I am looking forward following your build of Aquarama

 

[mikiek]

Due to the hurricane last week I had many days to stay at home. I did so much in the shop. You've no idea how ready for retirement I am. Get some of these builds out of here.

[mikiek]

A beautiful day today. Had both ends of the shop open. No fans. No A/C.

 

Part of what stinks about rigging is there's not a lot of need to post. Nobody needs to see every new rope that gets hung. Then all of a sudden all this stuff is done and you gotta show it to someone.

 

While doing the rats on the lower shrouds I started wondering about the futtocks. Seems like many new riggers wonder when to do those - so did I. After finishing the futtocks for the main I think the answer is - early on. Maybe even before the rats. I will say they put a lot of good tension on the shrouds.

 

Thought I would  pass on how that went down. I think most would agree the shrouds need to be fastened down before you can think about the futtocks. That will usually mean masts have been stepped and all of a sudden it's a lot harder adding and seizing ropes to spars. Futtocks are a pretty simple task, they're just not easy to fasten on.

 

This process wastes quite a bit of rope so I went cheap and used the kit supplied stuff instead of the Syren rope. I think it's hidden enough that it doesn't show. As you can see I started with an 8" piece for what will end up a 1 1/2" stretch.

 

 

I'm assuming everyone can make a hook.

 

 

I've been using this fly tying line for seizing. It's about as thick as a hair.

 

 

The hook is seized to the end of the rope. Use your best method here.

 

 

 

Ready to rock. This will be the third out of four futtocks.

 

 

Wrap the futtock shroud around the stave.

 

 

 

Sidebar - if you don't have one of these foam hull holders why not? As you can see it will hold the hull at extreme angles and is very gentle on exterior appendages.

 

OK - so this is why we used such a long piece of rope. The hook we can hook to the loop under the mast top but the other end must be seized to the stave. Not an easy thing. So using our extra long seizing clips we put a 7-8 wrap seizing on the futtock shroud. Doesn't really matter where. Typical method, make a loop with the seizing line and lay it on the rope. Take one end of the seizing line and wrap it around the rope like a noose. Stick that end of the line thru the loop and pull both ends of the seizing line tight. This is standard stuff.

 

 

 

 

 

One thing I never realized. I always figured the seizing was supposed to stay where you seized it. NOT TRUE! The seizing will slide up and down the rope. This will make like much easier.

 

Right now the futtock shroud is seized (well at least kinda) around the stave but it is much too long.

 

So I just slid the seizing around some while also pulling on the shroud to make it all fit. Of course the seizing needs to end up at the stave with just enough shroud to barely allow the hook to reach the loop under the top.

 

 

The whole trick is moving the seizing around and pulling on one piece or the other of the shroud and eventually it all fits into place. It takes a little practice but this same technique is useful in countless situations. You just have to use enough rope so that you can get a seizing on it SOMEWHERE. Then you just slide the seizing around. I have even managed to seize a few ropes buried deep under other ropes.

 

Oh yeah, the finished shroud.

 

 

You can see I was even able to get enough torque on the futtocks to tension the shrouds.

 

So yea! I got to post today. I also better disclaimer. I didn't invent any of this. It's just a combination of various techniques that has really changed my attitude on rigging. Especially seizing. And let's face it, if done properly almost every part of rigging is seized to something. If you can make a seizing and then move it where it needs to go, that can open a lot of doors.

 

Edited September 9, 2017 by mikiek

[Heronguy]

Very timely Mike.  Thank you.  I spent some time yesterday wondering how to attach my 1st ever futtock.  Looks like I now have an approach to try!  I do appreciate your tutorials in this build.

[mikiek]

Good morning Doug. Thanks for stopping by and I hope it can help you. If I wasn't clear on something don't hesitate to ask about it.

 

You know it's funny. I'm raving about this technique of sliding a seizing up or down a rope. Versus my old method of seizing it has opened a lot of doors and I can now seize in places I wouldn't have dreamed about before. Almost like the zip seizings people talk about here. The big difference is that this seizing is actually functional - it will hold ropes just like a seizing was designed to. But anyway, I sometimes wonder if I was the only builder here that didn't know about the technique.

 

Well, we're always learning....

[Heronguy]

My limited experience here on MSW tells me that there is a great range of knowledge and skills between the members.  As a "newish" modeller I find that I can't absorb the techniques I read about until I have a use for them.  Then, finding them in build logs when I want them is more matter of happenstance than recalling where I might have seen them a few months ago.  I've started my personal list of members whose build logs I will refer back to for ideas - you are on my list!  Please keep posting details of the techniques that you are  " the only builder here that didn't know about the technique" for all the rest of us who also don't know about them!

 

 

 

 

[mikiek]

I am honored to be on your list. I research in the opposite mode - a bizillion saved links, somewhat organized so I have to weed thru when looking for a topic. And then there's the books on the wall.

 

At any rate I'm glad this helps. Your first few will be tricky. I wish I could do a video instead of pix.