Armed Virginia Sloop by gsprings - Model Shipways - Scale 1:48

[David Lester]

Hi Greg, Boy, you're really motorin' along. I can barely read your posts as quickly as you're progressing. Here's a picture of my model at the stage you're at now. For those top window pieces, I rough cut each one to length more or less and then just continually sanded the tops and ends until I had a half decent fit. I put a small brad in each piece to use as a handle to hold it in place as I test fitted it. Once I decided it was ok, I glued it in and when the glue was set, I pulled the pin out. You can see the pin holes in a couple of places. If I remember right, I left each one a wee bit too thick from top to bottom, then when the glue was set, sanded the bottom of each piece until the windows just nicely slid into place and fit snugly.

 

I was interested in your finding that you needed to bevel the inner two transom frames. I didn't feel I needed to do that and I was quite happy with the flow of the windows across the back. They are an odd shape and it would seem they can be placed effectively with or without the beveling.

 

I'm really enjoying watching your progress.

 

David

[gsprings]

Thanks for the pics, David. Your transom looks great.

 

From all of the builds I've looked at, it seems like the transom and the stern lights have the most variation in approach, many of which look great. My approach was to try to track as closely to the plans as possible in term of the angles of the tops and bottoms of the windows and the overall "arched" look to the planks on the transom.

 

I got the top frames installed following that approach. Here's the current look with the windows in place (to be removed and placed later).

 

 

 

[DocBlake]

Greg:  I think you did a great job on the stern framing.  The placement of the lights is spot on!

[David Lester]

Hi Greg,

Your windows look quite well placed to me and should look great when planked.

David

[gsprings]

More progress on the AVS this weekend. I carved the rabbets for the bow timbers (the knightsheads and the timberheads) and fashioned the timbers using the profiles provided in the kits plans. They're probably too tall, but I can cut them down later once I get the above deck planking completed.

 

 

 

In order to thin the bulkheads to the appropriate width to install the waterways, the practicum that I'm using recommends installing a couple of exterior first layer planks to provide stability. This reduces the possibility of breaking the thinned bulkheads off near the deckline, which I've already done once of twice. So I installed the planks using a few pins to hold in place while I used superglue. I would have preferred to to do some edge bending on the bow portion of the plank, rather than use pins to hold, but the width of the first plank (1/4") seemed to limit the amount of bend that I could get in the plank.

 

 

 

 

And here are the planks once installed ...

 

 

 

Then I turned my attention to the waterways, which are installed along the inboard edges of the bulkheads. These pieces have to be beveled to allows the cannon carriages to get closer to the bulkheads. I used a compass to mark the edges of the bevel on the inboard and topsides of the waterways and used a sanding disk on the Dremel to cut the bevel. I wanted as sharp an edge to the bevels as possible. This was the best way that I could think of the get that, short of carving the bevels.

 

 

 

With the waterways installed, I moved on to start the first layer of planking on the transom. First, though, I painted the interior of the stern frames black so that one wouldn't see raw wood when peering in through the stern lights. I wasn't clear whether the stern planking is meant to butt up against the side planking or vice versa, but I'm not too worried about it for the first layer of planking.

 

 

As usual, all comments and feedback are welcome ... especially any constructive criticism.

[GuntherMT]

Looking good Greg.

 

 

With the waterways installed, I moved on to start the first layer of planking on the transom. First, though, I painted the interior of the stern frames black so that one wouldn't see raw wood when peering in through the stern lights. I wasn't clear whether the stern planking is meant to butt up against the side planking or vice versa, but I'm not too worried about it for the first layer of planking.

 

 

Neither actually!  The fashion pieces will be on the corners, so the stern planking doesn't butt up against the side planking at all (in either direction).  Both the stern and side planking will butt up against the fashion pieces.

 

I completely finished the 2nd planking layer on the stern, and then sanded the edges flat and added the fashion pieces to the outside, which the side planking would then butt up against.  There should be photo's of this in my build log if you want to see them.

 

It took me quite a few iterations of the curved part of the fashion pieces before I was happy with them, and the two planks that you have already installed were notched to take them as needed.

[DocBlake]

Great job on the outboard planking.  You've got the curve of the shear perfect!  The waterways look great also.  You are well on your way to an outstanding model.  Keep it up!

[gsprings]

More work completed over the weekend ... I finished the first layer of basswood planking on the transom and cut openings for the stern lights (i.e., windows). Then I painted the windows gold, glued some clear acetate film on the backs of the windows to simulate glass and installed them in the openings.

 

 

 

I have started planking the second layer with walnut (pics to come later), but have hit upon a choice in how I want to complete the transom. Many AVS builders here on MSW appear to shape the ends of the transom to the profile of the side filler blocks. Then they shape and glue the fashion pieces onto the edge of the transom planks and the side blocks. (This also happens to be the build methodology shown in the practicum that I am using.)

 

However, my read of the plans suggest that the transom is actually wider, on both ends, than the transom planks and side blocks and that the fashion pieces glue to the edges of the first and second planking layers on the transom rather than the side blocks. (See the note on the plans that says "Extend planking beyond side blocks to form wing." Also note that the drawings pretty clearly indicate that the transom planks are meant to go beyond the outside edges of the side filler blocks.)

 

I am tempted to try to do it as per the plans (even though affixing the fashion pieces to just the edges of the planks seems harder than using the filler blocks) because I assume that the kit's designer had some historical reason for the dimensions he recommends for the transom.

 

 

 

Any thoughts out there on which way to go?

[GuntherMT]

Very interesting observation Greg.  I honestly don't remember that when I did mine, so I'm going to guess that I made it flush to the filler blocks.

 

Given that the filler blocks are hand shaped to fit, I'm not sure why they would do it this way, vs. just making the filler block the appropriate size to just butt everything up against it.  Seems like doing it that way will leave a gap under the end of your side planking as it hits the stern, with no way to anchor it other than butt-gluing it to the fashion piece, which strikes me as a 'bad thing'.

[DocBlake]

I agree with Brian.  The problem with extending the planking beyond the filler blocks is that the fashion piece will "float", glued only to the end grain of the transom planks, and the upper hull planking above the wale will end as a butt joint against the fashion pieces, with a "space" behind.  Not the best situation.

[gerty]

Nice work - look forward to following along.

[popeye the sailor]

one solution you could have tried was to leave your transom planking a bit longer,  and plank the bulwarks down to the wales.  at this point,  you could have trimmed and sanded down the edges of the transom to meet the sides and then cemented on the taffrail pieces.   with doing this though,  you'd need to  decrease their thickness,  so they don't stick out too far.   this would have given you a good surface to cement them to,  and it would have hidden the tell-tail planking joint.

[gsprings]

Brian, Dave and Popeye:

 

Great feedback -- thanks for the input. I had wanted to match the width of the transom to the plans, which would have required building up the side filler blocks and a few of the bulkheads near the back of the hull in order to avoid the issues that you pointed out, Brian. However, despite measuring the first plank I laid at the bottom of the transom, it looks now like it's short of the length shown on the plans. (Not sure exactly how that happened.)

 

So, rather than tear up the walnut planking that I've finished on the transom, I'm going to go ahead and fashion the transom at the width of the side filler blocks like everybody else seems to do. Should make the back of the hull look more streamlined. And since the ship isn't based on an actual historical vessel, I guess there's no issue with verisimilitude.

 

More pics to come ... 

[DocBlake]

Now your talking, Greg!  Every model is a little different from every other model, so build to what you have. 

 

And you are correct - the AVS is fictional and taking some liberties with the plans is perfectly acceptable.  In fact, Model shipways took significant liberties with Dr. Feldman"s original plans for the AVS.  The photos show what the stern looks like in the MS plans, and what Dr. Feldman originally drew in his plans, which are the basis for the the MS kit.  As you can see, the increased tumblehome on Feldman's plans is what you get when you plank right on the filler blocks, as opposed to the more boxy result on the MS plans, extending the transom planking.  I think Dr. Feldman's looks better.

[gsprings]

The admiral was off on business for most of the weekend, which is the necessary ingredient to making lots of progress on the sloop.

 

First off was the transom. I applied the walnut layer of planking atop the basswood layer and made and installed the fashion pieces. Reapplied gold paint to the stern light frames then started the coats of poly. Dave, I agree with you that the Feldman profile is more attractive that MS boxed transom. The photos make mine look pretty boxy, but I was pretty happy with how it turned out.

 

Here are some pics of the transom in progress and completed:

 

 

 

 

Went to work on the upper basswood planking and gunport framing. Learned a few things ... I need to go easier with the CA (which I am sure you can tell from the pics) and I DO NOT like edge gluing, which became necessary for the top side planks on the sides of the hull adjacent to the poop deck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then, much intimidated, I started planking the hull. Garboard strake first. You might notice that I used thin walnut scrap planks to provide padding for the clamps. I can't tell you how apprehensive the planking process has made me.

 

 

As usual, critiques and comments most welcome.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Greg Springs

[GuntherMT]

Looks like you are doing just fine Greg, nothing jumps out at me other than the CA that you have already pointed out.  I personally prefer to not use CA at all when I can avoid it, and in the case of the planking I did not use any CA at all that I remember, just regular Titebond wood glue (PVA).  It is much easier to clean up if (when) I use too much, and if I wipe it off while it's still damp, it won't cause any issues with discoloring the wood at all.

Of course you are on the first planking layer here, so it won't be visible anyway after the walnut layer goes on.

[popeye the sailor]

I use white glue,  and I keep a damp cloth with me for whatever oozes out.   I rinse it out periodically to keep the cloth fresh.  after a good sanding afterwards,  I've even opted for staining,  rather than the second planking.   I've only done one hull that I've second planked.

 

there are many methods for planking.   the plank will tell you how it wants to lay.......whether to taper,  or not.   don't be intimidated......think it through.  after a while,  it'll be fun.....you'll see     I haven't even come up with the perfect hull yet  

Edited April 5, 2016 by popeye the sailor

[gsprings]

Brian and Popeye: thanks for the suggestions on white glue. I think that if I had more time to spend on the model, I'd use it for the planking. But my time is so limited that I feel like I need to use CA to make measurable progress. I am inspired by Chuck Passaro, who also uses CA on his planking with literally no staining whatsoever. So for now, that's my goal.

 

Made a bit of progress on the weekend. Got the satin poly layers on the transom, which I think turned out well. Also completed the bottom belt of the first layer of planking. It looks like the rabbet cut on one side was a bit deeper than the other, so the belt's are about 1/8" inch off of each other. My approach will be to do the top belt, making sure that the planks on each side look even at the bow, then use the middle belt to correct the difference that exists in the bottom belt.

 

 

[alde]

Looks great Greg. Nice looking planking.

[GuntherMT]

For what it's worth Greg, I don't think I was ever slowed down on my planking by the glue. When properly applied, it will give a good tack almost immediately, and by the time I had my next plank shaped and ready, I could remove any clamps without it problem.

 

On the other hand, plenty of people who are much better at this than that I am, seem to be able to make CA work just fine!

[DocBlake]

The stern looks great and your planking is coming along nicely.  The toughest parts are nearly done!

[gsprings]

Got the first layer of planking done and will post pictures, but I wanted to share a few pictures of the process first. I decided to try to use a method that I saw in a PPT presentation available here at MSW. The methodology involves marking off the plank width at each bulkhead then using packing tape to get the spiling profile for each new plank.

Step #1: Lay packing tape over the adjacent plank already on the model.

 

Step #2: Use a fine-tip sharpie marker to copy the line of the existing adjacent plank and the position of the bulkheads onto the tape.

 

 

Step #3: Affix the tape to a piece of planking stock of the appropriate thickness.

 

 

Step #4: Using the planking widths that were previously determined at each bulkhead, mark the width of the new plank on the tape.

 

 

Step #5: Connect the width marks using a french curve to determine the line of the other side of the plank.

 

 

Step #6: Affix the new plank to the model, snugged up as tight as possible to the existing adjacent plank. In this case, it was the diminishing plank, so you can see the bend that was required around the stern.

 

 

[gsprings]

I found that the most challenging part of the planking process was getting the width of the planks right, especially at the stern where they need to be wider. I was trying very hard to do the planking without adding any stealers, but ended up with some ugly looking planks at the stern, especially the ones where the lay of the planking goes from running flat to the stern to where they need to bend to run up to the counter. These two planks were difficult to shape and difficult to install, so I'm not sure I took the right approach.

 

Since this was just a base layer of planking, I didn't worry too much about getting the planks aligned perfectly at the bow, nor did I worry too much about filling the gaps between planks with sawdust filler. (I just used gap-filling CA.) You can also see that I was not very good at mating the planks cleanly where they meet the stern.

I'm happy with the results as a first effort, but I have a long way to go. Hoping what I learned with this layer will give me a much better result with the walnut layer, where my standards will be much higher.

 

 

 

 

 

[DocBlake]

Great job on the planking, Greg!  I know it's been said that any hull can be planked without the use of stealers or dropped planks, reality is a little different.  I suppose if you've planked a few dozen hulls you could make it work, but with this hull shape some stealers at the stern (and a dropped plank at the bow) will make your life much easier.  besides, I think the stealers look cool!  On my AVS I had 3 stealers at the stern and one dropped plank at the bow.

Edited May 11, 2016 by DocBlake

[donrobinson]

Looks just fine Greg, it will be a good base for second layer

[GuntherMT]

It's looking good Greg, and I'm with Dave on this - there is no real reason to work hard to avoid drop planks or stealers, as they existed on real ships too, and I also tend to think they look cool when well done.

 

I don't know the exact count like Dave does, but I know for a fact that I used both drop planks and stealers in both my first and second planking layer, and I think it came out pretty ok.

[popeye the sailor]

I agree with Dave as well........you did a great job with the planking.   you've set yourself up quite well....the second planking will be a breeze!  

[gsprings]

Have made more progress and will post a fuller update with photos later, but wanted to do a quick photo essay on my approach to creating the scuppers and gold pinstripe on the top of the black strake.'

 

First, I measured, cut and filed the scuppers. I am not very happy with the overall shape of the scupper. Not rounded enough. But in the interest of making progress, I'll live with what I got. The overall shape is not going to be very visible anyway, once I blacken the planking behind the scuppers.

 

 

Then I clamped the piece in a vise and sanded to round the top outer edge ...

 

 

With that done. I used a Sharpie to "paint" the piece. Much easier than painting and looks the same under poly ...

 

 

Then I used 3M blue masking tape to mask for the gold stripe that goes at the top of the black strake ...

 

 

I found that a gold metallic marker was highly effective at "painting" the gold stripe. Gave me a lot of control ...

 

 

Then I darkened the planking behind the black strake where it will be visible behind the scuppers and installed the black strake a piece at a time ...

 

[GuntherMT]

I hope you have better luck than I did with the sharpie.  I found that when I applied poly, it caused the sharpie ink to run and bleed, and I never could get it to stop as it was soaked into the wood much more than paint does, it just kept bleeding, every time I tried to add another layer of poly.  I regretted using the poly over and over again (I used it on the wales as an experiment, which went fine until later when I had them installed and added the poly).

 

My wales are still patchy looking if you hit them with light at the right angle, because the poly doesn't seem to want to seal and stick to them properly, so there are sections that just look 'flat' instead of the semi-flat of the rest.

 

At a guess, I spent a couple dozen hours doing clean up work because of that, and I'll never use a sharpie on a ship again!

[DocBlake]

Yeah, Brian, that's a problem.  It seems that the Sharpie pigment never truly "dries" and the poly is the perfect solvent.  My solution to that problem is to use a water-based polyurethane for the first coat to "seal" the black color.  It will not dissolve the Sharpie's pigment.  MinWax makes a water-based product.