HMS Triton (1/64) by Aldo - POB

[Sjors]

Hi aldo,

 

Some front SEATS?????

I need only one…. I'm not that fat,more skinny 

I prefer brewed coffee with milk and sugar please….thank you.

The dark side,,, first the Le mirage and the San Ildefonso.

Then the Agnamemnon, because my friend Mobbsie is building her and I have ask him if he want to be my teacher 

And after that….maybe I take a sniff to the dark side!

 

[mtaylor]

Aldo,

 

Insanity and bravery are in the eyes of the beholder.  Hmm... let's do a quick look around and see who's watching, shall we?   I guess we're not insane after all and neither is anyone else here.  I'm glad we got that settled.

[rdsaplala]

Hehehe don't worry Sjors, my friend, the many seats are for you as well as the rest of the gang I think I saw a picture of your DHL Package in Anja's log, so I guess it won't be long now before you start building Agamemnon 

Edited May 19, 2013 by rdsaplala

[rdsaplala]

Aldo,

 

Insanity and bravery are in the eyes of the beholder.  Hmm... let's do a quick look around and see who's watching, shall we?   I guess we're not insane after all and neither is anyone else here.  I'm glad we got that settled.

 

Thanks Mark, I'm relieved to hear that 

[Sjors]

Aldo,

 

That DHL package was for Mobbsie.

He want some rope from Morope and when we buy it, it was cheaper then  Morope have to send it to England.

And because we went to England , we could bring it with us.

But it is really great rope.

When I started the Aggy, I know exactly what I need 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2013 by Sjors

[rdsaplala]

Ah, I see, I'm pleased to know that our friend Mobbsie has switched to this beautiful rope  Silly me, I almost forgot that you could just bring Aggy in your airline baggage Looking forward to watching you take on this beautiful ship, my friend

[Sjors]

We went by boat Aldo 

We live for 20 minutes by train from the boat and Mobbsie lives 15 walking minutes away from the boat…..

Maybe next year we go again to England and pick up the Aggy 

 

[rdsaplala]

Ah, thanks for the info Sjors, I really have to polish up on my geography 

[Bummer!]

Woah Aldo!!!

Plunged into the darkside I see. When I grow up I'll maybe join you there...

You'll do a fine job I'm sure. Just take time to visit us who is still lingering on the lighter side of life   

[rdsaplala]

Thanks for dropping by, as well as the vote of confidence, Eric, this is actually more of the "gray side" as I'll probably be adapting kit parts for most of my fittings/guns 

Of course I will never get tired of visiting you guys, I draw my inspiration from your beautiful builds my friend 

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Really nice progress, Aldo. Your bulkheads are looking very good.

[Fam]

Ciao Aldo

great job so far!

I would have a couple of questions about your modifications:

- did you correct the bowsprit position (heigh) in your centre-board?

- you are the second to note the profile incorrectness in the aftmost bulkheads, so the problem is evident. Did you compare the involved bulkheads to the original NMM plans? Did you find if the error is here or there?

Might you provide a comparison of the new re-drawn profiles with those provided for the community built?

 

Thank you so much

Fam

[rdsaplala]

Thank you very much for the kind words, Christian and Fam, I appreciate it

 

Fam, before answering your questions, let me first clarify that these modifications are just based on my very limited understanding of nautical matters and only serve as an alternative approach to building this ship. The provided plans are more than enough to produce a beautiful model, and I just decided to do things a bit differently. Furthermore, let me add a disclaimer that my draughts were purchased way back when NMM allowed us to choose the level of resolution that we will buy, and being the cheapskate that I am, I bought the smallest sized plans, which of course would give fairly limited details. The plans I am using are about the same size as this HMS Pegasus draught that I got at about the same time:

 

 

I have purchased a much higher resolution "as built" profile/lines drawing of Triton this week, and my modifications may change depending on what I see in this more detailed draught.

 

Now that I've clarified these matters, here are the answers to your questions:

 

 

- did you correct the bowsprit position (heigh) in your centre-board?

 

Presently no, because I used the inboard profile for the Modified Mermaid Class, which appears to have the least amount of distortion, for my profile comparison. As such, the bowsprit height provided in that profile may not be specific for Triton. As previously stated I purchased a high resolution as built draught of Triton and it is this that I will use for getting the bowsprit height since this is more specific to her.

 

Did you compare the involved bulkheads to the original NMM plans? 

 

 

Yes, the bulkheads were compared to the plans, but like I said before, my current plans don't have a very high resolution and thus my work may undergo further modification once I get my hands on the high resolution plans. 

 

 

 

 

Did you find if the error is here or there?

Might you provide a comparison of the new re-drawn profiles with those provided for the community built?

 

Thank you so much

Fam

 

 

I took some pics with my phone to illustrate my answers here (sorry for the pic quality)

 

Comparison of the POB plans with the draught posed quite a challenge as not all the bulkheads corresponded to a particular station (see below):

 

 

As seen above only the aftmost stations numbered 1, 4, and 7 corresponded with bulkheads 27, 21 and 15 respectively so comparison was only possible among these. Here are the comparison results:

 

1. Bulkhead 27 versus 1st aftmost station: the discrepancy is pretty clear here.

 

 

2. Bulkhead 21 versus 4th aftmost station: the discrepancy does not seem very pronounced.

 

 

BUT juxtaposing the bulkhead with the station shows the discrepancy more clearly:

 

 

 

3. The same was true for Bulkhead 15 versus aftmost station number 7:

 

 

 

 

 

So, based on the pics above, it would appear that the bulkheads 15, 21 and 27 are not very consistent with the stations corresponding to them. Of course, changing these three bulkheads to correspond to their respective stations would also require modifications of the bulkheads in between them (bulkheads 18 and 24). So far, this is only what I've accomplished with this primitive little experiment.

 

I do have a very encouraging finding: As you go towards the waist, the discrepancy becomes less and I've noted that the middle-most bulkhead in the provided plans and the middle-most station in the draught (bulkhead/station 0) are spot on to one another, thus giving me hope that majority of the bulkheads at the waist are faithful to the draught  

 

I have yet to work on the other bulkheads and of course, my bulkheads are still open to further changes based on what I see in the high resolution plans, as well as additional feedback/tips/corrections that you, or our other members may provide  One thing is sure, I really have to learn CAD as doing these corrections manually is starting to feel a bit tedious

Edited May 20, 2013 by rdsaplala

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Did I understand you right, have you ordered a digital copy of the drawings? Where on there website is this possible?

I wanted to order a plan and digitize it at a copyshop to do the work in my cad system. But your way should be much easier and hopefully more accurate.

Edited May 20, 2013 by AnobiumPunctatum

[rdsaplala]

Hi Christian, no I bought another hard copy from NMM, but this time larger in size, at about 1m x .4m, it's much larger, and hopefully with clearer details than my current draughts (see below):

 

http://prints.rmg.co.uk/art/528431/Plan_showing_the_body_plan_stern_board_outline_sheer_lines_and

 

Unfortunately, it's also a bit more expensive than my previous purchases  :

Once this set arrives, hopefully in a month or so, I will also scan them and resize them to 1/64 

Edited May 26, 2013 by rdsaplala

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Thanks for the info. Then you use the same source and way as I do. I hope that I get the copy next month and can check my finished drawings and redo the cants. I like to build her with single frames and the original frame layout.

[Fam]

Ciao Aldo

I have to thank you for the really quick response and the interesting comparison you carried out.

You are right when wanting to wait for a higher resolution copy, but I think this won't change the core of the problem. CAD is probably the solution for a more accurate job in redrawing new bulkheads corresponding to the missing #24 and #18.

Will continue to watch your progress

Ciao again

Fam

[rdsaplala]

Thanks for the info. Then you use the same source and way as I do. I hope that I get the copy next month and can check my finished drawings and redo the cants. I like to build her with single frames and the original frame layout.

 

Thanks Christian, I'm pleased to know that you plan to correct the offending frames on Triton, that'll be of great help to all builders of this beautiful ship. Also if by some chance you decide to re-trace the Profile, Half-breadth and Body plan of Triton on CAD, and correct the distortions, I hope you won't mind sharing them as they would be of great help in making a more accurate centerboard and set of bulkheads 

 

Ciao Aldo

I have to thank you for the really quick response and the interesting comparison you carried out.

You are right when wanting to wait for a higher resolution copy, but I think this won't change the core of the problem. CAD is probably the solution for a more accurate job in redrawing new bulkheads corresponding to the missing #24 and #18.

Will continue to watch your progress

Ciao again

Fam

 

Thanks Fam, CAD is indeed the most accurate method for re-drafting new bulkheads 24 and 18, it's included in my priority list of "things to learn"

 

For now however, given my zero knowledge on CAD, I came up with a low-tech approach to correcting all involved bulkheads without any re-drafting. This was to make a new centerboard with no open slots then mark the stations of the draught directly onto the centerboard:

 

 

 

This basically allowed me to use the provided sections in the draught to make "half bulkheads" and stick these directly to their corresponding stations in the centerboard:

 

 

 

 

 

 

As seen in the pic below of the front bulkheads, I basically disregarded the bulkhead slots in the centerboard and just attached the new bulkheads traced from the draught onto their corresponding stations:

 

 

 

A downside to this is the stations are pretty close together so I have to use thinner bulkheads to avoid fouling the gunports.

 

Another major limitation is that I have to choose my bulkheads carefully, making sure I don't use the distorted ones (encircled)

 

 

 

 

Knowledge on CAD would have been very helpful in correcting all these distortions thereby allowing me a wider selection of bulkheads to choose from... of course, if anyone knowledgeable on CAD is willing to volunteer retracing my new draught when it arrives, and correcting all the distortions, I'm just a PM away 

 

 

 

[j21896]

Great work Aldo!

 

Robert

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Aldo,

 

on my (also not really good) NMM copy is no distortion. There are frames, which are really close together. If you get your new NMM drawing you can see it. I send you a PM.

[rdsaplala]

Great work Aldo!

 

Robert

 

Thanks for the encouraging words, Robert, all this new learning on plans can be a bit tedious, but fun and exciting nonetheless

Aldo,

 

on my (also not really good) NMM copy is no distortion. There are frames, which are really close together. If you get your new NMM drawing you can see it. I send you a PM.

 

Thank you very much for the help on the drawings Christian, I sent you a PM

[Fam]

Ciao Aldo

all in all a good recovery plan! As far as I understand from you pictures (the last but one), are you also replacing the bow bulkheads? Be careful in keeping bulkheads square to the cente board and strenghtening the joints!

I think the distorted bulkheads are an insuperable problem, unless you try to correct by hand the steps: as I can see, the same distorsion seem to be present in all bulkheads, as if the lower section of the plan has been enlarged.

The new copy of the plan should resolve the issue: I only have a very small copy but the shapes seem to be correct.

 

 

Ciao

Fam

Edited May 22, 2013 by Fam

[rdsaplala]

Thanks for the reminder on securing the bulkheads, Fam, I will keep that in mind

Yes, these distortions in the sections can be a real bugger, the particular draught that I used for the bulkheads is this 1773 plan:

 

 

the actual plan is about 1 1/2 foot long and the bulkheads seem to have no distortion at that size, unfortunately, enlarging the plan seems to emphasize distortions, which were previously not visible  The good thing is the minor distortions are correctable using the corresponding waterline measurements in the halfbreadth plan, which luckily is not distorted

 

I see that you have the 1771 as built plans, I'm pleased to know that it has no distortion. That is the particular high resolution plan that I purchased from NMM a few days ago, I am hoping that this plan will still have no distortion at high resolution as I will use it to re-evaluate all my bulkheads 

 

EDIT:

 

Just a small clarification;

 

The plan that I erroneously called 1773 plan is NMM's Technical Drawing ZAZ3240 "as proposed" for the Modified Mermaid Class Ships: Triton (1773), Greyhound (1773), Boreas (1774) ).

 

http://prints.rmg.co.uk/art/493990/Triton_1773_Greyhound_1773_Boreas_1774

 

The plan that I called 1771 as built plan is draught  ZAZ3235 for Triton (1771) as built by MBs Adams at Bucklers Hard:

 

http://prints.rmg.co.uk/art/528431/Plan_showing_the_body_plan_stern_board_outline_sheer_lines_and

Edited May 23, 2013 by rdsaplala

[Fam]

Hi Aldo

I just downloaded the picture yesterday from another topic in this section (btw: you posted it!), but also accessed the NMM archive and saw your same version is available. Conversely, I was not able to find the 1773 version, don't know if the source is correct.

Would like to know if the community building plans are based on 1773 or 1771 version...I can see several differences but hope the hull lines remain unchanged!

Regards Fam

Edited May 23, 2013 by Fam

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Fam,

 

there exist only one set of drawings at the NMM. The keel was laid down 1771. The launch was 1773.

[rdsaplala]

Hi guys,

 

Sorry for the confusion my last post has caused   There is indeed only one set of plans specific for Triton as built (it's plan ZAZ3235 and is the plan I recently ordered and am waiting for to arrive). I have edited my previous post accordingly, thank you for the clarification, Christian   

 

Fam, you are correct, there are some differences in the two plans, most notable of which, are the details in the quarter galleries. Dang, it completely slipped my mind, I was so busy revising my bulkheads that I forgot that I am using the "as proposed" plan for the Modified Mermaid Class when I should have waited for the "as built" plans to arrive before revising any bulkheads  The lines look the same at first glance, but I am almost 100% sure that there are bound to be some differences upon close inspection. Oh well, I may be looking at another redo of my bulkheads (or make that entire model) once my plan ZAZ3235 arrives. Ah yes, fun fun and more fun...

Does anybody know where that emoticon of "hitting my head with a hammer" is? I think I could use it right about now     

Edited May 23, 2013 by rdsaplala

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Aldo,

 

I got today a 500DPI scan of the ZAZ3235 drawing (~50MB). Keep your fingers crossed that I find some time at the weekend to solve my problems with the lines.

[rdsaplala]

Wow! That's great Christian, thank you very much, both my fingers are crossed my friend

[riverboat]

Aldo....you are amazing!!!

[rdsaplala]

Hi Frank,

 

Thanks for the good word, my friend, they are always much appreciated

To be perfectly honest, I don't feel so amazing after my recent lapse in judgement of using an "as proposed" set of plans instead of the more ship-specific "as built" plans to modify my bulkheads, but I think a few nights having my fill of alcoholic beverage should fix that