USS Constitution by JSGerson - Model Shipways Kit No. MS2040

[JSGerson]

Another quick update on brass drilling. Yes, the new bits drilled through the brass...until they didn't.  If you look back, I made a diagram of how I was going to the drill brass blocks. Basically, each block requires two holes, some passing all the way through the block, and others only halfway. Each block required two set ups on the drill press. I was lucky if my new drill bits lasted two blocks before they quickly dulled up or broke. On moment they were drilling, the next they weren't. One didn't even drill from the start. I actually bought bits from three sources, my original bits from either Model Expo or Micro-Mark, a full set from AliExpress, and two Gyros #75 packages and one Gyros #67 each containing 12 bits/pkg. The AliExpress #67 bit broke immediately upon touching the brass and the #75 went dull. The Gyros went dull after a couple of holes. I was using a light touch, not  jamming the drill into the brass.

 

After all this, I don't have much to show for my efforts, just two cleanly drilled brass blocks. So I will admit defeat and go to plan B, Styrene plastic. The drill bits cut through in seconds, and cutting the blocks off from the bar requires just a sharp knife instead of a fine tooth saw or cutting disk. Hopefully, the brass painted blocks will blend in with all the brass rod that make up the canopies. 

[vossiewulf]

Try professional jeweler's bits, they are of much higher quality than anything MicroMark sells, and unfortunately the price reflects that. That said, scroll down where there are Swiss Tungsten Vanadium sets for $49 and I saw a cobalt steel set for $59, https://www.ottofrei.com/collections/burs-drills?pf_t_types=types%3AAll+Drills

 

It's always painful to buy something like a nice set of drills but you get drills that actually work and work for a veery long time, so the investment is worth it.

[GGibson]

1 hour ago, JSGerson said:

The AliExpress #67 bit broke immediately upon touching the brass and the #75 went dull. The Gyros went dull after a couple of holes. I was using a light touch, not  jamming the drill into the brass.

 

 

Well, crap!  Hate to hear that!  And I just bought their 0.2-1.1mm package.  Granted, they were only $5.57 for the package (maybe that was an indication of quality?!?), but sorry to hear they won't work for the intended purpose.  Did the RPM speed have an effect on that, Jon?  Could you slow down the drill speed and they'd do better?

 

I've got a bunch of the Gyros, as well, and have found that they are great for the pin vise, but the bits do wander when I put them in the Proxxon drill press.  Well, like I said at the outset... crap!

 

EDIT:  I've saved vossiewulf's link to my "favorites" just in case... 🤷‍♂️🤣

Edited December 20 by GGibson

[mtbediz]

3 hours ago, JSGerson said:

The AliExpress #67 bit broke immediately upon touching the brass and the #75 went dull. The Gyros went dull after a couple of holes. I was using a light touch, not  jamming the drill into the brass.

I'm sorry the drill bits didn't work, Jon. I have used them to drill brass sheets with a maximum thickness of 0.8 mm and they worked well, but I have never worked with thicknesses above this.

[JSGerson]

I really don't know where the problem lies, my technique, proper type of tools, quality of tools, or my skills. The one thing I couldn't try was a slower drill speed. My old Dremel drill press can only accept my one speed plug-in Dremel drill and not my cordless variable speed Dremel. I think it will work out OK with using Styrene for this one component.

 

Jon

[Der Alte Rentner]

Jon,  I spent some time today checking other build logs, one of which was XKen's.  I noticed that the drills he uses seem to be very short, or have very little of the cutting end protruding from chucks.  This might be a technique that would resist your drill bits breaking.  He doesn't discuss it, but I suspect he shortened the cutting end of the drill bits and hand sharpened them.  

 

E.G.

 

That last one might have been an outlier..

[Der Alte Rentner]

Going back and forth between builds, trying to firmly grasp construction details of cheek knees, trailboard, and head rails, I was impressed by your work in this area.  I will go so far as to say that IMHO you eclipsed XKen in managing the curve at the tail end of the trailboard, where he cut it short. 

 

Boy of boy, am I dreading this step..  

[JSGerson]

Peter, Ken Forman (xKen) is a master of metal work, so he made his scroll work out brass plate and solder and he did a beautiful job. Like him, my scroll work was fabricated from smaller pieces but I used 1/64" boxwood instead metal. I actually wanted to carve finer detail into the scroll work, but I didn't have the skills or tools to get the effect I wanted. But, from a foot away, the results were acceptable. I actually found creating the fiddlehead and the cheek knees much more difficult and I wasn't fully satisfied with those results either. Take your time, make trial pieces, and have patience and tenacity, and I have faith you'll will get it done.

 

Jon

[JSGerson]

I am taking my canopy frame fabrication cues from several builders but am using 1/32” brass tube instead of 1/32” brass rod as many other builders have used for the vertical components. This allows me to use a continuous vertical component, passing through the junction blocks and decorative balls to just beyond the top railing. Then the overhead canopy support made of 0.02” brass rod can be inserted into the 1/32” tube creating a strong mechanical connection. The 0.06” blocks will only support the horizontal rails with no stress. The brass balls are strictly ornamental and provide no support. The tricky part is where the canopy arches all meet at the top. A hub piece will be used to connect all the arches plus the finial. The finial is to be comprised of a rod and tube configuration (TBD), and filed into its final shape and inserted into the hub. The vertical framework base will be inserted into rings made from 1/16” tubes, embedded into the grating wood frames. Here is a summary of the materials:

• Base of vertical component: 1/16” brass tube – K&S Engineering No. 5125
• Vertical component: 1/32” brass tube– K&S Engineering No. 815035
• Horizontal component: 1/32” brass rod - K&S Engineering No.
• Junction blocks: 0.06” Styrene square rod – Evergreen No. 223
• Ornament: 1/32” brass balls – Tribal Desert from Etsy
• Junction hub: 3/32” styrene tube – Evergreen No. 153

So here is my plan based on the US Navy plans and the trial prototypes of the vertical components and the canopy hub element to see if this would work. The prototype is purely concept, so it is not adjusted for proper dimensions or glued and yet it stands on its own. The final image shows the styrene painted brass. It appears it just might work.

[GGibson]

Looks like a good plan, Jon!  And how many of these will be on the deck?  Whew!  Watching with great interest! 👍🏆

[Der Alte Rentner]

On 12/26/2024 at 3:18 PM, JSGerson said:

The final image shows the styrene painted brass. It appears it just might work.

Perhaps it's because of the nature of a super zoomed photograph, but I'm not entirely convinced on the color.  But then, when I saw the spec of 1/16" square on those styrene junction boxes, I had to gulp.  Yikes! 

 

This is a long way off for me, and I may not bother with them anyway, but, I think I would try to find some 1/16" square brass stock and drill holes in that instead of messing with styrene.  Or hunt down someone who has plans for the canopy frames and can knock them off with a 3D printer (in this country).  I have a friend who has a 3D printer, but he'd need plans or whatever the specs are called for him to make them for me. 

 

I'm beginning to wish I'd started with a much larger scale, so that I wouldn't need an electron microscope and nano robotics to work on these smaller details.    

 

Nice work Jon.   

Edited 18 hours ago by Der Alte Rentner
added content

[JSGerson]

Peter, The US Navy plans I have. The 3-D printer I don't have, nor do I know of anyone who does have one. Cutting the brass 1/16" stock or the styrene 0.060" stock into cubes wasn't a real problem if you have a small miter box and a fine tooth saw. Cutting the brass rod and tubes also not a big deal. I used a fine tooth saw because if I used a cutting disk on a Dremel tool, the tiny piece pieces would fly off into Never-Never Land. I bought the brass balls. The hard part (for me at least), was trying to drill holes into the brass as I have documented.

 

Take it one step at a time, and it will come together. Albeit, there are a lot of steps.  As for going to a larger scale, the 1:76 scale of the MS kit creates a four foot model. That in turn requires an even larger display box, which requires a display table large enough to properly show off the display box. Now increase the scale of the model and everything gets bigger. Oh, one other thing, usually a larger scale almost demands more detail. Be careful what you wish for.🤥

 

If you enjoy it, it not work

Jon

Edited 14 hours ago by JSGerson