Trajta by mikiek - FINISHED - Marisstella

[mikiek]

I think the worst thing about planking is there seems so little to show for it. Not a lot of bang for the effort - until it is almost done. Then there's the challenge of making the last 2-3 strakes fit in the remaining space. Well I have a way to go for that.

 

I laid the garboards first. Then for some reason kept planking up from the bottom half way finishing the bottom band. Then I realized this band is usually where you fill in those last few strakes. If things get too hosed up at least they're not in plain sight. So I stopped there and started top down. Top band is finished, I'm not overly wild about the outcome. I'm starting to think I don't like planking with walnut. The sticks always look so good in the bundle, fresh from the saw. But after you sand them they lose a lot of the luster. It also seems like they are always on the edge of breaking when they are bent. As a matter of fact in what you see in the pics, I have had 5 break.

 

Here's how she looks right now:

 

 

 

 

As you can see, I'm beginning to get  below the 2nd & 3rd filler blocks. Not sure if I'll have to extend them or if the strakes will play nice. One or two more rows and I'll find out.

Edited December 27, 2017 by mikiek

[Don Quixote]

Try the shark steamer on wood that hard.

[AntonyUK]

Hi Mike.

Steam and heat bend them.

My method is to boil a kettle on the stove and hold both planks into the steam. Then wrap them around the kettle to cool down. Holding the planks in place with a strip of cloth. Yea it takes time but the planks are always over bent and that helps.

Your planking looks spot on.

Have a good new year.

Regards Antony.

 

[mikiek]

Brian, Antony - thanks for the comments. I'm finding that it's not so much bending the sticks as it is twisting them. Mainly when gluing around the curve at the bow or stern. The sticks usually need a bit of a twist so they lay flat on the frames and that is where they are breaking. Of course you can steam a twist into a stick the same as steaming a bend.

 

I'm assuming you let the stick dry out before gluing it?

[Don Quixote]

Oh yeah.

 

That's box wood.

[mikiek]

That's why I'm a boxwood biggot. If it only stained better it would be all anyone needs.

[mikiek]

Two and a half bands done now. It's so weird seeing them on the frames. With the hull upside down and looking at the hull from above, the unplanked area has a perfect football shape. As I would have expected. However from the side you can see they run all over the frames. I'm not concerned, the dividers tell me it's all as it should be. It's just funny what a 3D shape can do to things.

 

 

 

I have recalculated the remaining space into 2 bands. Another easy thing to do with dividers. It actually worked out pretty good as the widest part of the gap looks to be divisible by the plank width. Four sticks in each band with only a little shaping at the outside frames. We'll see.

 

I am struggling somewhat with the walnut sticks. More than a few have broken on me. Even with wetting and bending them first.

 

It's also looking like I am going to have to work some magic with a few gaps. I hate using filler on material that will be stained - it always leaves spots because stain doesn't absorb as well as on the wood. I've tried the glue & sawdust routine - the results were not much better. I may go back and try dying the glue again. I did that once before but didn't take the time to get a perfect match. I was using walnut ink crystals for the dye so you would think (at least I would think) that a close match with walnut planking is possible.

Edited January 1, 2018 by mikiek

[mikiek]

Yes she still lives. Hull planking has been very slow. I've had a tough time getting strakes glued at the bow & stern. Clamps are next to impossible to use there, so it's been the finger clamps which really slows things down. I was getting 1 maybe 2 strakes per night. As the pix will show, there will have to be some filling of some sort at that point where the strake ends come into contact. That will have to be stuffed in between the strakes and the stem or stern post.

 

I still have 5 strakes left to lay, but I always like getting to this point. I can already tell the last few sticks are going to fit like a glove. The dividers came thru again. Not a single stealer or any other partial plank. So I'm kinda proud of that.

 

There will have to be a decision made as to paint or stain. A few strakes (some of the early ones) have enough of a gap that they will need attention. I hate using filler on a surface that I want to stain. I've tried all the tricks for that but always end up with the "filler spots" when the surface is finished. I hate painting over walnut but that may be where I'm headed.

 

 

 

 

 

[Heronguy]

I find that seeing the hull "skinned" creates a real satisfying feeling!  Almost there Mike!  My planking is usually at that rate even if I can clamp at the stem and stern.

 

[mikiek]

I guess I'm used to multiple planks per strake. Yeah, it's more effort to cut the sticks, but IMO they lay a lot easier and quicker. This is my first shot at using single stick walnut for a strake - I'm not overly impressed. Missing the rabbet didn't help. NOTE TO SELF:  Always make a rabbet even if it's not called for.

[mikiek]

Finished the hull and barely stopped to admire.  The last few strakes dropped right in. And I won't mention the div*****s. I do have some small gaps that are more than I can tolerate however. So I dived right in to the repair work.

 

Actually, it is some experimentation. I haven't given up the idea of finishing the raw wood rather than painting. My gripe is the spotting left from glue and filler when I apply stain. Glue barely absorbs it, filler usually either absorbs too much or not enough. I'm left with discolored spots on the hull. Well glue is glue and all you can do sand down past it. Filler on the other hand has possibilities.

 

I've posted about mixing certain fillers with a bit of water so that you make a paste and can apply with a paint brush. I'm going beyond that this time and attempting to color the filler the same color as the walnut sticks used for planking. Honestly, I think it might work. I'm using Elmer's filler and walnut crystals for the dye. The ratios are all by eye so if you try this at home you're on your own.

 

After applying to a couple of spots the first thing I see is the color lightens up as it dries. So what matched well when applied ends up lighter than desired.

 

 

I added some more crystals to darken. Now the mixture looks darker than the wood when applied.

 

I think the key will be to only apply where it is needed and not slather the entire hull. Before it dried completely I took a wet (yes wet not damp) rag and wiped the excess off the hull surface. I am only trying to fill the gaps between planks after all. Here's a spot after that.

 

Not too bad.

 

I've been griping about having to glue the strake ends straight to the stem & stern. In several places this left an unsightly gap so I'm trying to fill those as well.

 

And I guess I should add a few obligatory pix of the planked hull.

 

 

Gotta get back to the shop to wipe down the excess filler......

[mikiek]

Work continues on Trajta. We've had a little excitement here in SE Texas - some cold weather. Nothing compared to what you Canadians live with but for around here it's almost a blizzard. Temps below freezing for over 24 hours - expected for another 18 - 24. In my area that in the 20's, teens at nite. The shipyard is kinda chilly but it won't stop me.

 

I'm into 2 things at the moment. Prepping the hull (read sanding) for some finish and doing a few odd tasks in preparation for planking the decks.

 

As far as the hull goes, I'm taking a different approach than usual. I REALLY want to stain & varnish the hull rather than paint. But as you may know, I'm pretty anal about how my stain comes out. IMO filler & glue can ruin any stain job. This time around rather than filling gaps & low spots I am sanding those areas to the point where they disappear. A lot of sanding! The hull planks are noticeably thinner - hope I don't poke a hole thru them.  It has also been very hard to resist putting some sort of something (stain, finish, etc) on the hull. You know how that is? So far I have succeeded. The pix don't look to different than the previous ones, but if you run your hand down the sides the difference is noticeable.

 

The other odds & ends are rather unique to this build. Trajta did a lot of cargo hauling. Rather than openings in the deck to lower stuff into the hold, she has a section of the deck open. In that area bulkheads are planked, there is a bit of flooring and the bulkheads have openings where things are loaded into.That was probably a bad description, the pix may explain it better. At any rate I am planking the bulkheads and getting ready to do the flooring. And since that area is open to the hull there are also some faux frames to be installed there. This will prove challenging as the plans call for 3mmx3mm walnut sticks and they will have to be bent to fit the hull.

 

 

 

One problem I have to deal with. In the last pic you might see a notch in the keel. There was a frame piece there but after planking you take it out. My planking method requires marks on each strake where it crosses a frame. Usually no problem as I lay that side of the strake inboard and no one ever sees it. Not so this time with the section of open deck. To make things worse I used a Sharpie to make my marks. You can see my dilemma. The floor I'm about to do will cover part of it but not all. Nothing to do but sand 

 

Stay warm......

 

 

 

 

[mikiek]

Well, maybe the cold will stop me. The CA isn't CAing. Will not stick. Even put some on my finger and rubbed it around. Felt like water. Bummer.

[donrobinson]

Hi Mike, you got things rolling along pretty good. The floor you are about to build is raised so it will hide the notch and keel. The weather sucks, even though it is not cold to our standards when you are not used to temps like that it is cold.

[mikiek]

Hello Don - I look at the weather like this - it's 2 days I didn't have to drive 130 mile round trips to the office

 

I was about to PM you & Zoran about that floor. The plans call for 2 strips for a bilge keelson (part #32) at the starboard and port ends of the floor, one to a side. The floor sits on supports glued to the bulkheads. It looks like these 2 strips have one long edge glued to the outside edge of the floor and the other edge either to the hull or the faux frames (I can't tell which). I'm guessing on the frames. What's really odd is I would kinda expect the strip edge to run parallel with the floor planks. But a top down view in the plans shows them at quite an angle to the planks - the last plank and a strip making sort of a V. THis makes me wonder if the strips are really contacting the floor planks or are maybe under the planks. If the strips do contact the planks then there would probably need to be a triangular shaped plank (almost like a stealer) to fill in the gap.

 

I"m also stumped on the faux frame pieces. 3mmx3mm walnut sticks that need to be bent to the curvature of the hull. I use the soak & heat bend method but they are not bending enough. I've already broken the sticks twice.

[donrobinson]

Hey Mike I sent you a pm.

[mikiek]

Seems like nothing but setbacks the last day or two. I've been working on the cargo entry area but it just ain't working. Since this area is open down to the hull, you are supposed to put some faux frames in. This makes good sense however the frames are supposed to be 3mmx3mm sticks and they are supposed to be bent to fit the curvature of the hull. On the good side the frames are 2 pieces - one comes out from the keel about 2/3 of the way to the wale. The second piece starts under the wale and runs about 2/3 of the way toward the keel.

 

 

I was able to get the bottom pieces in although I couldn't really bend them enough to fit flush on the hull. But given that part of the piece is under the flooring I just rocked them a bit so the exposed part is flush. A little smoke & mirrors.

 

So far I am totally unable to bend the sticks enough to make the second piece of frame. Everything I have tried, the stick eventually breaks. I've tried soaking the sticks (even overnight) then using the soldering iron bending attachment. I ended up breaking the iron trying to apply enough pressure to bend the stick. I bought a hand steamer, that works no better. I even tried using some thinner basswood sticks and they are breaking too. So I'm stumped right now.

 

Another downer, I couldn't resist staining that same area sort of as a test before I do the outside. The stain "Special Walnut" didn't look bad on a single stick but IMO it's WAY too dark applied to a larger area. In the pix you can see some bare walnut floor planks above the stained walnut hull. I guess walnut stain on walnut wood is not a good combination, although I suppose it would look OK on furniture.

 

Speaking of floor planks, the plans are quite confusing. The floor outer edge is supposed to end with a "bilge keelson" - never heard of that one - that runs cockeyed from the rest of the floor planks. I don't see what purpose this would serve and it doesn't sit right on the hull. I will probably just run floor planks out parellel instead.

 

So I think Trajta is going to get another rest while I figure out what to do.

[Don Quixote]

I can't believe a steamer wouldn't do it. If that won't work, I don't know what will. Someone said ammonia, but... Not this kid.

[MarisStella.hr]

Hi Mr. Mike ...

The bilge keelson, or the bilge strakes run from the stern to the bow over all the frames. This is construction with no interior, so only the part (of it) in the middle of the hull is visiable ... About the shaping the 3x3mm strips : try to use strip bender or simply: a pliers ... The point is to shape the strip, not to break it and this is to be done in several turns...

Regards, Zoran

[mikiek]

I assumed Zoran was referring to the bending tool that looks like pliers. They put a crimp in one side of the stick and you bend in that direction. I have never heard much good about this tool but I thought I would give it a try. $30 later it's out in the shop and problem almost right away. Like I said the side that gets crimped should be the inside of the bend. Unfortunately, for this application it needs to be the outside of the bend. I need the smooth side to be the inside. I went ahead and tried bending like I needed and the stick broke at 4 of the 6 crimps I made. I can see this tools future will be short lived.

 

Per Don's suggestion I tried bending thinner sticks with the idea of laminating several thin bent sticks together. Not pretty

 

 

Creases and cracks all over. Was almost going to go with it anyway. Had all 5 glued down, then the little voice says ARE YOU NUTS? So I have exhausted the easy methods - heat benders, steam, overnight soakings, other benders. Due diligence? I would say so.

 

Tomorrow it's the nuclear option. I'm bringing out the scroll saw and cutting frame pieces. I still have the one frame piece that is removed after planking so that can be my template. Will use walnut sheets. Got a lot of sanding to do as well - need to get all the glue off the hull.

 

Note to Marisstella - these really should have been laser cut parts.

[MarisStella.hr]

Forming the strip by bending it is to be done slowly, when the strip is wet and the fibers are flexible... This procedure cannot be done at once, but several phases of bending are to be done at the same strip, repeating the procedure until the shape is correct....
Here is this part of the ship, done by an amateur...
Regards, Zoran
 

[donrobinson]

Hey Mike, Zoran beat me to the punch here but this was bothering me so I gave it a try using my curling iron method and here are the results. I used 3 x 3 mm walnut stock, the same as you would be using. Please do not think I am trying to make you look bad, I am not . I just hate seeing someone getting frustrated, as I do, I'm only trying to help.

 Forgive me for taking over your log and erase pictures if you wish:

 

This picture is showing the result of 30 min. soaking and a light bending. Notice the creases, I use a curling/straightening iron, when the final bending is completed I will dip the piece back in water and lightly use the iron again to help steam the creases out.

 

 Here is the final product. The process I use is to lightly bend until wood is dry then put back in water for about a minute, then bend some more. In this case I did this probably 8 or ten times. Trying not to force the wood to bend is the key to success, and unless it is a complete break it will splinter from the bottom and can be easily repaired with some ca glue. Note the creases are gone with some steaming(using curling iron) and some sanding. I could have done more sanding but this was just for demo purposes so I rushed through it. Total time this bend took from start to finish was a little over an hour.

Here is the tool I use, a cheap Walmart curling/straightening iron, it was less than $20.

 I again apologise for taking over your log

[mikiek]

No apologies needed in this thread. I left my ego at the door.  ALL suggestions and comments (positive and negative) are welcome here. The idea is we are all helping each other right? And it's obvious I need some help. IMHO Straight, honest responses will produce better results and further ones skills.

 

It sounds like the gist of both Zoran's and Don's post is I am in too big of a hurry. I was trying to do the whole operation in one pass and it's just too much of a bend to be doing so.

 

So the saw will stay on the shelf for another day. I will spend today SLOWLY working the 3x3's and see what I can come up with.

 

Thank you Zoran and Don. Both of your opinions and comments mean a lot to me. Please keep them coming!

[mikiek]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[donrobinson]

Yah Man Awesome!!!!!

[mikiek]

Thank you Don - both for the affirmation and the attitude adjustment. I saw those frames in the instructions and figured 10 minutes tops. Four days later......

 

Hey, on a slightly different note, how much steam does that curling thing put out? I ask because I was pretty disappointed with the hand held thing I bought. Although I have nothing to gauge it by. I was expecting after 20-30 seconds of steaming  a stick would almost be melting in my hand. Turns out they're barely even warm. And it is supposed to be Amazon's #1 seller. Debating whether to send it back. BTW I did not use it today.

[donrobinson]

Hey Mike, the ribs look great!! The iron does not give out steam. What I meant is the hot iron against the wet wood produces steam. What is the next step in the build?

Edited January 29, 2018 by donrobinson

[Heronguy]

Looks like you'v conquered the bending!  Nice work.  Isn't it great to get advice and support - always gives me the confidence to keep at it when someone like you or Don offer advice.  

[mikiek]

I could not have said it better Doug. So many times I have been frustrated and ready to turn a boat into a wingless airplane. Cooler heads have "talked me down"

[mikiek]

Don - looking at my last pix I see a lot of glue between planks on the inner hull. Normally this would not matter but since the area is exposed I think I should try to clean that up some. My concern is in sanding it off I will mess up the stain. Of course I can always reapply but it's so dark already I think another coat would turn it almost black.

 

Beyond that the next task is building the doors for the cargo openings.

 

I also need to get back to my filler project. The hull is going to need some in a few places. I've been working on trying to dye the filler so that it won't spot when I stain the hull. After a lot of effort I did actually find some Minwax walnut colored filler. Sadly it has the same problem I have been running into with my own mixtures. It looks great when it's wet, almost a perfect match to the wood. But it lightens up considerably after it dries. So I am having to start out with a much darker mixture but that's a lot of trial and error and I doubt if I could reproduce it a second time.

 

If I'm not mistaken after that it's time to plank the deck.