HMS Victory by William-Victory - Heller - PLASTIC - First ship build

[William-Victory]

On 12/7/2017 at 12:14 PM, Sailor1234567890 said:

Period ships with draught marks always strike me as odd. The Plimsoll mark and attendant draught marks were not invented until the mid 1880s.

Oops! Well it was fun putting them on.

 

[paulsutcliffe]

Hi William/sailor

Period ships most certainly did have draught marks, please see my log for the HMS Sirius where I showed photos of the actual marks from the Sirius brought up from the wreck, unfortunately you have put them in the wrong place on the rudder but hey!!!

[William-Victory]

Used white glue for the bend in the ropes.  I wish I had this tid-bit of knowledge when I started.

 

Now I can add the appearance of gravity in future rigging cases.  Thanks Popeye.

[William-Victory]

I got a comment and had doubt myself if the yellow I was using was deep enough.

So I bought this Acrylic to use as a toner and it appears to be more rich and deeper.

 

The boat on the left has the toner treatment.

 

I also found some pictures of progress on the bow on my iPad.  After I get the chains on I am going to return to the Bow.

You can see the places where I used CA on the ropes. I started with black rope for the bowsprit rigging but I couldnt see the rope in tight spaces. So I used running rigging line instead. I may try to dye it black in the future.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2017 by William-Victory
Removing duplicate images

[EJ_L]

Very nice details and excellent painting! She is coming along very well indeed!

 

While I do not recommend changing anything at this stage nor feeling bad about this, a couple of years ago, they discovered the actual coloring of Victory's hull and it was significantly different than the more common "bumble bee" appearance. See the link from HMS Victory's website here. Again, do not lose any sleep over the difference but I thought it might be an interesting read on her coloring.

[William-Victory]

Getting to the main mast chains. The etched parts offer two lengths for the first dead-eyes.

The plate has two dates. 1803-1814.  I dont have the entryway on the side so I need to use the correct chain length woth the correct year. Any help?

 

[popeye the sailor]

before you get too far on the dead eyes........I really hate to tell you this......but they are too short.....lanyard wise.  the spread between dead eyes should be 1 1/2 times the dead eye size.  if your using 5 mm dead eyes,  the lanyard spread should be something like 8 or 9 mm in between.   I went into my 1:96 Connie kit to give you an example.......the actual parts appear exaggerated,  but the rigging instruction sheet appears normal.

the appearance factor would be greatly improved,  if they were spread out more.   having used CA,  you may not wish to go through the change them.   you could cut the thread and drill out the holes.  I only say this because of the picture of them rigged on the sprue......it would be great if the model manufacturer created the sprues as a form of jig to do this.  I'm surprised that no one mentioned this earlier.....even me.   I'm not one to critique,  but I couldn't see you doing them all like that,  and then find out that they were wrong.  I hope someone else can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.

the presence of draught marks on the Victory has been done by other modelers on this site.  they were usually located on the stems....bow and stern.  I wouldn't remove them from the rudder....that would be very messy.  live and learn........no concern.  they are fine the way they are   

    please...don't take offence......I mean well........you've done some nice work at the bow   

[William-Victory]

I did think the same thing too. That they are looking short.

Not sure what I am going to do from this point forward.  I really want the longer lanyards but I am so far along.

Below is the page from the manual.  The manufacturer suggested the lanyards done on the frame.

 

Under tension it looks like only 1:1 space (below)

Edited December 12, 2017 by William-Victory
added an image

[popeye the sailor]

wow!   this is the first model that does this, you know.....never seen this before    it's always been refreshing to see folks want to rig the shrouds on plastic kits.  

     heck....even I have been daunted from doing it.  the initial worry was that the method would distort the masts.......I've never had to strengthen them by the use of metal rods.  yea......that's a sticky wicket.......what to do about the ones that are already cut from the sprue?!?!   what can be done for the ones still on the sprues?

 

   you could cut both sides of the sprue box and lengthen them,  to widen the spread.   just depends if you want to go through the hassle.  kinda feel bad bring this to light  

[William-Victory]

1 hour ago, popeye the sailor said:

  it's always been refreshing to see folks want to rig the shrouds on plastic kits.  

     heck....even I have been daunted from doing it.  the initial worry was that the method would distort the masts.......

I started work on the bow again while I contemplate what to do.  I ordered some 4mm walnut dead-eyes. The kit dead-eyes (below) don't have a groove for the shrouds to center in either. So I expect problems when I tighten a shroud that it wont slip off the dead-eye under tension.

 

I flicked one of the yards on the sprue and immediately decided I need resin yards. The other option is to only rig the standing rigging?

[William-Victory]

Well I have never done resin before.   I'm jumping in with both feet on this.  Gonna practice, then get some glass/resin and hope its strong enough for yards.

[dafi]

Hello William, was nice to catch up with your build :-)

 

For the missing side entry port - most probably the historical correct version - take the longer iron :-)

 

Do not worry too much for the lanyards being shorter than advised. As long as you manage to do a clean build :-)

 

Did you already try to fix the shrouds on the deadeyes the way that Heller suggests? Looks quite difficult, try already now to have enough time to find a good technic or a alternative way for that.

 

For the broken yard take wood, resin os not a good replacement as too brittle.

 

And for the draught marks, here is a picture of the ones of 'Royal George', sank 1782. Draught marks X, X and III. Mounted on a textile-covered board.
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/63420.html

 

All the best, Daniel

Edited December 17, 2017 by dafi

[William-Victory]

Thanks for the clarification on the chain.  I think Alumilite has glass filled resin for structural strength. I'm using the kit resin which I am sure is too brittle.

I'll try the glass/resin and stress it to see its strength.

I still have doubts about its aging ability though.

Already ordered walnut deadeyes.  I only have the Forward Starboard side with finished chains so changing to wood is still doable.

 

Making a mold below.... and then realized... its stuck to my desk.

[William-Victory]

So. Good morning!

My dead eyes came in yesterday and I jump right in to try a set out.

Getting the chain mounted securely to the wood was effortless and it cant come unglued like the original dead eye from the kit.

The small groove in the circumference of the walnut dead eye will do better to keep the shroud centered. Kit parts don't have that groove.

 

The lashings are too close for the .6mm rope I think.  I measured the diameter of the kit dead eye to order the walnut pieces at 4mm, though it still looks tiny. If painted the may look bigger.

 

[William-Victory]

Made my first tack today. Three hours to do this first one.

my hooks are on the massive side. I’m finding you can only go so small in scale until things start looking toy/toon-ish.

 

[William-Victory]

This is my micro work space. I have a shop but it’s full of drone stuff, guitars, drums...

 

[popeye the sailor]

clutter......just like mine!         any place is a great place!   

[William-Victory]

Chilling on the porch with a some and coffee.  Nerves are tattered trying to get this carronade finished.  Will get to it...

[dafi]

Great build!

 

"Chilling on the porch with a some and coffee.  Nerves are tattered ... " better take some valerian drops, keeps the hand much more steady :-)

 

If you havent already done all the lanyards of the deadeyes, consider taking a thinner thread. 

 

Also try out how it works for you to tie the shrouds to the lower dead eyes. If it is too hard, consider to take the lanyards off and take wooden dead eyes for the upper ones. Painted black they should fit the plastic lower ones and should be easier to handle. 

 

All the best, Daniel

Edited December 21, 2017 by dafi

[William-Victory]

I finished one carronade today. Maybe two hours work. 

The carronades I have been itching to work on since I started.

 

The blocks I got from model shipways are really a lot easier to work with.

[popeye the sailor]

looks good.....keep going      have you tried rigging them with the carronade cemented in place?

[dafi]

Nice beasts :-)

 

XXXDAn

[William-Victory]

The two cannon in the forecastle have me a little stumped today.  I have seen them tied down in the location you see in the picture.

Searching the internet I can't find where those two cannon are stowed.  Should I tie them down there?

Some builds I see they left the two cannon off.

[popeye the sailor]

you could even lash them more toward the bow.......they are called bow chasers.   most modelers tend to delete them though...thought to be too much for the model,  or problematic to lash them in place.  some aren't even included in the kit.....outa sight,  outa mind sort of thing as well.

[dafi]

Or put them aft the carronadesn into the larger gap of the timberheads :-)

 

XXXDan

[William-Victory]

I just tried simulating a shroud with the kit dead eyes and you can see it popped from the dead eye and is then pulling just on the lanyards.

 

[paulsutcliffe]

HI William

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news again but you need to file the edges of the deadeyes if you are going to use those and make a ridge for the shrouds to sit in, or make some with wood, have a look at some other logs and deadeyes, the lanyards could then be reduced in thickness by half as well and would all look better at least half the thickness of your shrouds would be more to scale.

Regards

Paul

[William-Victory]

Yeah thank you. Bad news is fine with me. I have thick skin when it comes to helpful criticism.

I said the heck with it. Bought some nice dead eyes and more walnut blocks. The blocks look great on the guns. And a lot better than the kit versions to work with.

 

[popeye the sailor]

you'll be a lot happier with the way they will look      the plastic dead eyes don't have the indentation around the outer edge.....bad thinking on Heller's part me thinks   

[William-Victory]

To make the deadeyes black I wanted to stain them with india ink.  But they seem to be coated already and it didnt take.

So I am painting them like I painted the cannon with spray paint.