HMS Bellona 1760 by SJSoane - Scale 1:64 - English 74-gun - as designed

[druxey]

Either way up, she is a beauty to behold!

[Remcohe]

Upside down she  looks equally stunning, lovely lines

 

Remco

[EdT]

She looks as good upside down as right side up, Mark. Beautiful work.

 

Ed

[SJSoane]

 

Thanks, everyone. I just read the David Antsherl primer on planking, which has inspired me to jump into my first real planking project, on the lower counter. I could only find one source for the width of the planks here, in Goodwin's  Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War, p. 54. He says the planks for the counters are 2 ½ to 3 ½ inches thick, and 8 inches wide. My drawings from NMM scale at about 2 ½" (thick lines in the drawing allow several interpretations). And unless anyone else has a better source, I'll go with the 8". 

 

Oh, fun ahead!

 

Mark

[michael mott]

Mark the lines of your framing look superb by placing the hull upside-down one really gets to appreciate the graceful lines of your work.

 

Michael

[SJSoane]

 

Thanks, Michael, I originally built it upside down Hahn-style, and so saw it this way for many years. It always looked like a good inspiration for a furniture design of some kind. or maybe a sculpture.

 

Well, I spent the entire day starting planking the lower counter, and got two parts not yet installed. But I learned a lot. Those of you who have done this before, did you pin these before gluing? I don't see how to clamp these for gluing, and wonder if pre-pinning will help keep everything in place.

 

Also, I abandoned Goodwin's note that these are 8" width. I tried ruling that out and it looked like way too many small pieces. I went from 12 to 9 strakes, and it looks more convincing. I am closer now to 10 inches at the broadest widths.

 

Mark

[Trussben]

She really looks great upside down, I'm sure no actual shipwright ever wanted to imagine that way!

 

Ben

[Remcohe]

 

 

Those of you who have done this before, did you pin these before gluing?

I used small commercial clamps, but then again I had more space between the timbers. Maybe a small homemade clamp could work?

 

Remco

[druxey]

10" seems about right to me as well. Perhaps 8" were used at a later time, with smaller raw materials and more powered saws.

 

Personally, I spile all my planks and steam bend them in the other plane. No clamps or pins usually required. They then sit down and stay where they should.

[Remcohe]

Very good advise Druxey, I also make a habit of forming the planks as best as possible before gluing, but I still use clamps to let the glue set properly. I always try to avoid any stress in the planks. Although sometimes when I struggle with a difficult shaped/formed plank its hard to resist the urge to pick up a bottle of CA and a big clamp to get the job done  but I never surender to that!

 

Remco

[EdT]

As those who closely read my posts probably know, where clamping is in the least bit awkward, I use pins.  I drill undersized pin holes through the planks into the beams where treenails or bolts will be placed, then hold the glued planks down with the pins pushed into the holes, removing them when the glue is set.  There are often situations where clamping is impractical.  I don't have the stamina for druxey's multi-step approach - although it is probably the best if planking perfection is the goal.

 

Ed

[druxey]

Ed: your planking seems perfect to me!

[EdT]

You are much too kind, druxey.  Actually I was thinking more about this later, specifically the effect of scale.  compared to 1/48 planks are a third smaller in thickness and width at Mark's 1/64 and 50% percent smaller at my scale on YA of 1/72.  Cross-sectional area at 1/64 is 44% smaller and at 1/72 55% smaller.  If I add that on YA the planking is a lot narrower - 6" to 7" wide, one could conclude different approaches to bending and shaping may be in order.  Planks at these small scales are pretty flexible, especially in narrow width.  Just something else to chew on when thinking about the process.

 

Couple of other thoughts on pinning:  I find that Castelo "boxwood" is more prone to splitting than genuine box or pear, don't know about holly.  At narrow widths this needs to be considered.  Also nickel-plated dressmaker pins do not stain the wood - unless they severely bent.  Then the nickel flakes and the planking can be stained.  I had two such cases on YA's ceiling planking.  If a pin bends severely when being pushed in, remove and replace it.

 

Love planking.

 

Ed

Edited May 6, 2014 by EdT

[druxey]

Holly is extremely amenable to bending, Ed.

[EdT]

I was actually thinking more about resistance to splitting.

 

Ed

[SJSoane]

 

Thanks, Remco, druxey and Ed, I am really benefiting from your experience here. The first plank above the wing transom on either side of the stern post definitely has a bit of a twist to it, although it yields easily to the pressure of a finger to lie flat. Druxey and Remco, if you were to steam it, and there is no easy way to clamp it to its final shape while drying, would you just hold it in place? Or would you gauge the twist and clamp this to something off the model?

 

And Ed, I am using dressmaker pins (stolen from my wife, she doesn't know this yet) that are too tight in a #74 hole for me to push in by hand, and a slip fit in a #73 hole that would not hold it down. Are you using something to push them into the tighter hole while avoiding them bending? I have little holes in the ends of my fingers while trying this freehand.

 

And Remco, I never thought of the idea of CA and a big clamp...now you have me thinking! ;-)

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark

[druxey]

I freehand bend to suit, sometimes over-bending slightly, let the plank dry off-model, glue and then treenail.

[Remcohe]

I'd shape it off the model too.

 

Remco

 

Re. CA, don't

[EdT]

Mark, I use needle-nose pliers to push the pins in , gripping them just above the point, maybe 1/8" or less to avoid bending. I use pliers to extract them as well. I will check the drill size. I know the pins are .021" pleating pins.

 

Ed

Edited May 7, 2014 by EdT

[SJSoane]

 

Hi everyone,

 

 A long time since the last update. I started planking the lower counter, and after a few strakes were glued in, I decided it wasn't good  enough and ripped them off. Then I took a trip to Taos to rethink....

 

After a new start, I got the lower counter planked. I found two useful tools shown here. The first is the curved shooting board I built a few years ago, which worked well for holding the planks for shaving the convex and concave edges. I used a Silversmith riffler (thanks, Ed, for the lead on this) for the concave edge, starting with a #0 and finishing with a #1. For final fitting, I slipped a piece of graphite paper between the two surfaces, and filed where the graphite showed a high point. I used my block plane for the convex surface, finishing up with a long #1 flat file to fair the curve.

 

The second tool I picked up a few years ago at a jewelry tool supply store. It is a jeweler's miter, which clamps a piece between two jaws at right angle or any other angle chosen. A file is then used to reduce the piece sticking out to flush with the front surface. It keeps a perfectly straight edge, square to the wide surface. I used this to clean up the ends of the planks, for a good tight fit with the next plank.

 

I did not highlight the joints of these planks, because I intend to paint the lower counter with the stage curtain and cherubs shown on the second model of the Bellona. I thought that emphasized joints here would interfere with the painting...

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

[alangr4]

Mark is Taos some model boat builder's nirvana?

I could see nothing wrong with your previous planking attempt but this latest effort is just about perfect and in keeping with the rest of the project.

A stunning build.

 

Alan

[SJSoane]

 

Hi Alan,

 

I was too shy to show the rejected planking; I am keeping it on my bench to remind me of what happens when I rush things (I didn't mark out very carefully the lines of the planking on the framing, and things got wanky after a few strakes--the individual strakes fit well against each other, but did not follow a fair line on the counter).

 

Taos is a small town in northern New Mexico at the southern end of the Rocky Mountains, next to the Taos Pueblo (an ancient Native American town still inhabited, built of mud and straw adobe). Taos became a favorite haunt of artists starting in the late nineteenth century, including Georgia O'Keefe. D.H. Lawrence owned a ranch near there. It is nice to soak in the creative energy of the town, every once in a while--even though it is a long, long way from an ocean or a maritime museum!

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark

[druxey]

Have you considered painting the frieze on paper and then gluing it over the planking? Many contemporary models did it this way. I've found it a lot easier than trying to position the model in a way that isn't awkward - or risky! - while painting the lower counter.

[SJSoane]

 

druxey,

 

Interesting! What kind of paper do you paint on, and how do you affix it afterwards? I was wondering how to paint cherubs upside down, although it sounds equally hard painting them right side up!

 

Mark

[alangr4]

Mark

 

You are the third or fourth person who have recommended New Mexico as a place to visit. Thanks for letting me know about Taos.

 

If you had your time over, would you have still gone with the Hahn method?

 

I have read on this and in other forums/books that there are pros and cons with the Hahn approach .

 

Thanks for sharing your build.

 

Alan

[druxey]

As I PM'd you, Mark, I just use ordinary bond paper, stretched as water-colour paper before painting it with either flat enamel or acrylic paint. When the painting is done, I cut out the pieces. Dilute white glue is used to attach the finished friezes.

[SJSoane]

 

Druxey, thank you for the details on painting on paper. I will try that as a way to test out my painting skills anyway, and mock one up on planking to see how it deals with my expansion/contraction problems.

 

Alan, I would highly recommend a visit to Taos, and to Santa Fe relatively nearby. Both very picturesque, very historic as far as North America goes. You will see why artists have been attracted to this area since the 19th century.

 

Regarding the Hahn method, if I had it to do over again, I would construct the hull right side up simply because after a while it was not very fun to look at it upside down for so many years of construction. It has been more interesting to see a little ship on the ways since I turned it upright, rather than a vague wooden shape like a beached whale. Too much deferred gratification for me, building upside down. 

 

I still like the stylized Admiralty framing system that I chose, just because I saw so many in the National Maritime Museum in London and long wanted to do one myself. Franklin's book, Navy Board Ship Models, shows some of the interesting details of these types of hulls. Had I seen the work of Ed Tosti or David Antscherl before I started, I might have figured out how to adapt those accurate, fully framed techniques to an Admiralty frame. Maybe someday I will try a little mockup of how that might be done...

 

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark

[alangr4]

 

Thanks Mark for your comments. As you say once you have seen Ed, David, Greg and Remco's works and others they provide a very compelling case. 

 

Regards

 

 

Alan

[SJSoane]

 

Hi everyone,

 

I finally get to move on to the remaining deck clamps. I made a little marking jig for the tops of the clamps. The head slides back and forth on a beam that sits on the sills of the gun ports. A black pointer slides up and down within the head (the pointer is glued to a short square post captured by the lower knurled screw). So I can set the pointer at the right distance from the sill at each gun port from the drawing, then slide the beam through the head and the two gun ports, and mark with a pencil. Keeps everything symmetrical, and aligned to the gun port sills, which is the important thing.

 

Mark

[michael mott]

A very nice looking tool Mark.

 

Michael