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Posted (edited)


Note: In past builds I have rigged the lines and belayed them on the belaying pins, with sufficient extra line to loop them and tie them off as it is actually done on real ships. Those loops looked really good.


 

Phil, stick with what works. Although rigging the loops the way you described is a pain in the a** the results are worth the effort. These photos show just how bad reality can look. (Photos taken aboard the Bluenose II this last summer in Nova Scotia.)

image.thumb.jpeg.5b3cfec09bbe1b9b4dd9e271b5aa47dc.jpeg
image.thumb.jpeg.4a85e2010c5f14495686942c1d6485c0.jpeg
I belay the rope as you described with extra line to coil. I then use Alene’s Tacky Glue for fabrics it dries clear and is somewhat flexible. Working quickly before the glue sets up I use tweezers and rigging tools to form the rope loops. 

Results on my 1921 Bluenose are shown in the photos below. 

image.thumb.jpeg.f63e47f209beec755e930c25b54912d3.jpeg
image.thumb.jpeg.1ee8aeb6eddfa256250d87192729c570.jpeg

 

Edited by John Ruy

Gallery Photos of My Charles W Morgan 

Currently working on New Bedford Whale Boat

 

 

 

 

Posted (edited)

John,

 

The ropes on your Bluenose look great!

 

The reason I want to make separate rope loops and not try to make the loops in situ is that on this model there are 70 of them. There are too many lines crowding around the pin rails and fife rails to allow the access I need to tie them in place, especially with the sails in the way. It is going to be difficult enough just to tie off all of those lines on the crowded pin rails.

Edited by Dr PR

Phil

 

Current build: USS Cape MSI-2

Current build: Albatros topsail schooner

Previous build: USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model

 

Posted

Phil,

I used a very similar technique a few years back on my Sherbourne. The difference was in forming the little loop early on in the process. Part of the answer is to make the loop come up over the coils from deep down below and then hook it over a belaying pin. 

 

The picture below is page 93 from my book on Sherbourne

image.thumb.png.5f3ac6da5647eb538b27fddf0cd9d53c.png

Here are the finished coils on the fife rail. The one on the left has a long loop, and the belaying pins are bulky clubs from Caldercraft which I did not replace. The ropes (Caldercraft) are quite hairy at this magnification. 

fiferailcoilsbright.thumb.jpg.e669cf6e9b53bc137b515026a9749c55.jpg

George

 

George Bandurek

Near the coast in Sussex, England

 

Current build: HMS Whiting (Caldercraft Ballahoo with enhancements)

 

Previous builds: Cutter Sherbourne (Caldercraft) and many non-ship models

 

Posted

George,

 

Thanks!

 

Note: "Pin loop" means the small twisted loop that fits over the belaying pin. "Coils" refer to the larger multiple loops that make up the bulk of the assembly.

 

I think one problem I had was caused by wrapping the coils "backwards." In the photos I posted I started wrapping with the end that eventually was pulled up for the loop over the belaying pin. As a result the ends of the pin loop pulled up from the bottom end of the coils. That was wrong! I should have started the coils from the end hanging down loose when the coils are belayed to the pin. When this end was pulled up to make the pin loop only the hanging loose end would be shortened to get material for the pin loop and not rope from any of the coils.

 

The real problem is that when you are belaying a real rope on a real pin, one end of the "pin loop" is already secured around the pin, so when you pull it tight it comes up and around the loops in the rope coil. But with the way I did it there is no way to pull the pin loop tight around the rope coils. So it falls apart!

 

I like your idea of securing the first loop in the coil with a knot at the end where the pin loop will be made. The knot will be covered by the other loops. When the pin loop is pulled up the knot will prevent it from pulling rope from any of the coils.

 

It will be a couple of days before I get a chance to implement your method, but thanks for providing it!

 

PS: Happy Mozart's birthday.

Phil

 

Current build: USS Cape MSI-2

Current build: Albatros topsail schooner

Previous build: USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model

 

Posted (edited)

If at first you don't succeed ... The main problem I was having is that there is no line connected to the belaying pin to provide a solid point to pull on. You can see this in this video about 1 minute 15 seconds from the start.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awiFzE5SXzU

 

When the fellow pulls the rope through to make the loop to go over the pin, he is pulling against the rope already tied on the pin. So I decided to start with a loop that will go over the pin first, then make the coil, and end with another loop over the pin.

 

Note: On the tool I used to make the coils the left most pin was mounted on a surface perpendicular to the surface the other two pins were on. See the pictures in this post above:

 

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/19611-albatros-by-dr-pr-mantua-scale-148-revenue-cutter-kitbash-about-1815/?do=findComment&comment=1084631

 

In this drawing S = short stationary end of the line, L = the long end that is wrapped and tied around things, 1 and 2 = the loops that will go over the belaying pin. The left most pin on the tool is the belaying pin substitute and the right two are used to make the rope coil.

 

ropeloops.thumb.jpg.e88839216cbe9e1f3f10126a8ff33bc0.jpg

 

A. Pull the rope long end around the two pins on the left. Leave a long loop 1 to the right.

 

 

B. Loop the long end around the pin on the left (a substitute for the belaying pin). This creates the second loop that will fit over the belaying pin.

 

 

C. Bring the long end back over the first loop.

 

 

D. Wrap the long end around loop 1.

 

 

E. Make a loose knot (don't pull tight yet) between the end of loop 1 and the pin.

 

 

F. Now start wrapping the loose end around the two right hand posts.

 

 

 

G. Make the desired number of loops for the rope coil.

 

 

H. Compress the loose loops into the coil.

 

 

I. Bring loop 1 up through the center of the rope coils.

 

 

J. Bring loop 1 up and over the the middle pin.

 

 

 

K. Put a twist in loop 1 and pull it over the left pin.

 

 

L. Pull loop 1 down above loop 2.

 

 

M. Pull on the short end S to tighten loop 1 around the post. Put a drop of glue on the base of loop 1 at the middle pin (use one that won't leave a stain of shine on the ropes).

 

 

N. Remove the coil from the pins and  cut off the short end S.

 

 

 

Hang it over the belaying pin. Put loop 2 on first, followed by loop 1. Pull the coils down below the pin/fife rail.

 

ropeloops2.jpg.c092dcffd967f4c4543db2cf1f37bb4a.jpgHere is the result. The two coils on the right were made as described above. The far right coil was a test made with ordinary carpet thread. The middle coil is 0.012 inch (0.3 mm) rope. While loop 2 did work to provide something for loop 1 to pull against, the knot made in step E is pretty obvious. Not perfect!

 

The coil on the left was made without tying the knot (steps D and E). I put a drop of white glue in place of the knot and when it dried I continued with the rope coils. After taking the coils off the pins and trimming the short end S the white glue failed and the end of loop 1 came loose!

 

I glued it back on with some CA gel, but I can see here that I glued it to the wrong side of the coils!!

 

 

I think the double loop approach has promise. I'll keep working on this to perfect my "technique." I'll try using the CA gel instead of the white glue to "tie the knot" in steps D and E.

 

I think I am really going to enjoy the MSI build - it has almost no rigging!

Edited by Dr PR

Phil

 

Current build: USS Cape MSI-2

Current build: Albatros topsail schooner

Previous build: USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model

 

Posted (edited)

Try again, and again, ..., until you get it right!

 

ropecoils.jpg.dd21e3f261f8782ea4c73e4d3eab3886.jpg

I think I am getting somewhere. I improved the technique described above, eliminating the knots. As before I have an initial loop to fit over the belaying pin and provide a fixed end to pull on, and a final loop that fits over the belaying pin to hold the rope coils in place.

 

Here you see two coils made with the new method. They look pretty good! No bulging knots and they hang reasonably "naturally." These are test pieces made with carpet thread.

 

I made a new tool, lengthening the distance between posts so the coils would hang almost to the deck. With the new tool I start with a 6 inch (150 mm) piece of rope and have only about an inch (25 mm) of scrap cut off the ends after the coil is finished.

 

 

Here is the step by step procedure. S = the short, unmoving end of the rope, L = the long end that is wrapped around the posts. 1 and 2 are the two loops that fit over the belaying pin in the pin/fife rail. The arrows show when the ends of the rope are pulled. Be careful to not cut the short end too short!

 

The new fixture has four pins for the rope coils to wind around, placed in an elongated "diamond" or parallelogram pattern (see photos farther down in the post). The fifth pin on the left serves as a pseudo belaying pin.

 

ropeloops2.thumb.jpg.a4aaef25cb47cb04231bd8b4ca14c4c2.jpg

 

A. I attach a small clamp on to the short end (S) to keep it from moving. Then the long end (L) is pulled around the two pins in the middle of the diamond pattern. This forms the start of loop 1.

 

 

B. The long end is pulled to the pseudo-belaying pin (left most in picture).

 

 

C. Now the long end curves back around this pin to start loop 2. It must curve back around the second pin to the left in the picture on the same side as the first leg of the loop. This ensures that loop 2 will be formed correctly to loop around the base of the belaying pin under the rope coils.

 

 

D. The long end runs all the way to the right around the right most pin and curves around to start making the rope coils.

 

E. The long end continues to wind around the four pins that form the coils until enough turns have been made for the piece that is appropriate for the rigging at a particular belaying point. Some may have fewer turns, and some may have many.

 

F. After all the coils have been made they should be pressed down to make easy access to the end of loop 1.

 

G. Pull the end of loop 1 up through the center between the coils. It was initially looped around the outside of the two central pins. Now it must be lifted over these pins so the "legs" of the loop are free to move inside the coils.

 

This will pull in the short end of the rope. Be sure it doesn't pull in past the left most pin!

 

H. Continue pulling the end of loop 1 back over the second pin from the right. This is where it hooks over the coils.

 

 

I. Hook the end of loop 1 over the top of the left most pin. Put a twist in the loop as you hook it over the pin.

 

 

J. Now pull on the short end (S) of the rope to tighten loops 1 and 2 around the left most pin.

 

 

K. Place a drop of thin white glue on the cluster of ropes around the pin second from the left. The glue must soak into all the ropes at this point so the assembly doesn't become unwound after it is lifted from the pins. Pull the short end (S) back along the side of the coils so it will be glued in this position.

 

L. After the glue has set you can lift the assembly from the pins. Trim the long end (L) to the desired length. Trim the short end (S) fairly close to the glued ropes, but leave a bit between 1 and 2 mm long. I find it useful to place a small drop of cyanoacrylate (CA) glue on this "tail" of the short end just to be sure it doesn't come loose.

 

 

 

Makingropecoils1.jpg.37c37fa489b76d2014df8c4f068da1bd.jpg

 

Here is a photo of the tool and a coil assembly in progress. The four pins of the "diamond" to form the coils are on the top of the tool. The middle two pins serve to open the coils and also serve to form loop 1. The "leftmost" pin in the illustrations above is the ball headed pin on the side of the tool. This represents the belaying pin.

 

This illustrates step C showing how both legs of loop 2 pass on the same side of the left most pin in the diamond. This is important!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Makingropecoils2.jpg.c19ab526013e7d5ef20972deda402a26.jpg

 

 

This is a better view of the tool. I made seven "stations" so several coils can be made at a time.

 

You can see how I use the small clamps to "tame" the rope - it wants to unwind from around the pins.

 

This is step H after the coils have been pushed down on the tool.

 

 

 

 

 

Makingropecoils3.jpg.632f325c613ff3335f9a9b5e5e41416d.jpgThis is step M after the short end has been pulled to tighten loops 1 and 2 around the "belaying pin" shaft.

 

I apply dilute white glue where the arrows indicate. I soak the bunch of ropes around the pin, and also paint some glue on the ropes down the side of the coil to glue the long end (running off the top of the photo) to the lower ropes of the coils. This prevents it from coming loose and causes it to hang down when the assembly is on the pin/fife rail.

 

The short end is pulled off to the left side of the picture to pull it tight around the metal pin.

 

After the glue dries the "belaying pin" is removed and the coil assembly is lifted off the pins. It helps if the pins are bent inward slightly.

 

 

The coil shown in these photos was made with 0.012 inch (0.30 mm) rope. It is the first of 70 rope coils for the model.

Edited by Dr PR

Phil

 

Current build: USS Cape MSI-2

Current build: Albatros topsail schooner

Previous build: USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model

 

Posted (edited)

Mass production has started. Here are 37 coils of 0.012 inch (0.3 mm) rope - 30 finished and 7 in progress.

 

Makingropecoils4.jpg.306f1161bd101b12c6be05e6aa470314.jpgropecoils.jpg.e063443740c9163f41bfaa5f0f295501.jpg

 

The method I described above works pretty good. So far I have had 6 failures out of 36 attempts - a 16% failure rate. All of these occurred because I got into a rush and failed to follow the steps correctly. Operator error. Actually, on a few I thought I found a better way to loop the rope, and it turned out not to work. Also, the dilute white glue is a VERY weak glue and if the lines are not wrapped correctly the thing falls apart as it is being removed from the pins. However, the rope is still useable and already cut to length, so I just wrapped it again

 

When I am on a roll I can complete wrapping a coil in about 45 seconds. But occasionally I lose control and the rope springs off the pins and I have to start over. Patience is a virtue ...

 

stepK.jpg.a36c06f26704654a0acc04cf34c71c3f.jpgI have found one slight modification that improves success. The last step before applying the white glue is to pull the long end around the pin on the right, to the opposite side of the pin from where the coils would normally wrap. This puts a bit of pull on the rope as it passes the two middle pins. I apply white glue to the side of the loop to the left of the center pins where the long end lays along the other strands to hold it in place after the loop is removed from the pins.

 

 

With a bit of luck I am about half through this phase of the build.

 

I had an "OH!" moment when I wondered if I had accounted for the 6 inches (152 mm) of rope I was using for these coils when I ordered the rope from Syren? I checked my rigging spreadsheet and I had allowed 7" (178 mm) for most of the rope coils, but only 3.5 inches (89 mm) for those that wouldn't need as many loops. So I was planning ahead. I should have over 100 inches (2.5 meters) excess rope for all the ropes used on the model! Whew!!

Edited by Dr PR

Phil

 

Current build: USS Cape MSI-2

Current build: Albatros topsail schooner

Previous build: USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model

 

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

Ever have one of those days when nothing seems to go right? This was one of those days!

 

Maingafftopsail1.jpg.4729df8a9485767464f7f2ba4ac80464.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

I have been preparing the main gaff topsail for installation. Lines for the tack and sheet were measured and cut to length, then tied to the cringles at the lower corners of the sail.

 

The halliard posed a special problem. One end of this line was tied to the sail's spar a bit below the center. The other end will be stropped around a double block that is part of a luff tackle that belays to a ring bolt on deck.

 

However the line must pass through a single block at the top of the main topmast. Since neither the sail and spar nor the double block will pass through the sheave hole of the block on the mast I had the fasten one end first, then pass the line through the single block and then attach the other end. And since the single block is already rigged to the mast, all of the work must be done in situ, on the mast.

 

I decided it would be more difficult to tie the halliard to the spar while everything was dangling from the mast top than it would be to strop the other end to the block after the sail was hoisted on the mast.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maingafftopsailhalliard1.jpg.f81447717af0cf69bbf205b0a1778792.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The halliard was tied to the spar with a rolling hitch. I got this idea from Darcy Lever's The Young Sea Officer's Sheet Anchor. This part was pretty easy. Then the halliard was reeved through the single block at the top of the mast and the sail was raised into position. So far, so good.

 

The other end of the halliard was pulled down to deck level and a small clamp was fastened to it to keep tension on the line and pull the sail into position as shown in this picture.

 

The double block of the luff tackle was to be stropped to the lower end of the halliard while the sail was hoisted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maingafftopsailsheet.jpg.b663d0738ad62ab9736b099fb4b8647c.jpg

Next I ran the sheet line through a single block tied to the end of the gaff and then to another single block tied to an eye bolt on the underside of the gaff jaws. From there the line runs down to belay on a cleat on the main boom.

 

This is where Murphy stepped in. I pulled the sheet through the blocks and down to the boom, but just placed a small clamp on the lower end of the line to put a bit of tension on it. But when I pulled the line taut to haul down the clew of the sail the seizing on the strop of the block at the end of the gaff failed, and the block pulled loose! The strop around the block was still good, but the loop around the end of the gaff had pulled open.

 

So I had to stop rigging the gaff topsail and put the sheet block back on the gaff!

 

 

I think the diluted white glue that was supposed to hold the seizing for the loop failed to prevent the end of the line from pulling through. The seizing itself just pulled off the end of the line. To prevent this from happening again I pulled the loop closed and placed some super glue (cynaoacrylate) on the lines. When this hardened I wrapped new seizing around the throat of the loop, tied it off, and soaked it in white glue.

 

After all the glue had dried I started to place the loop over the end of the gaff and found I had another problem - this was operator error. The flag halliard had already been rigged through a small "jewel block" tied to a eye at the end of the gaff. There was no way to get the sheet block loop over the end of the gaff! This was poor planning. I really wanted to keep the hardened loop on the sheet block, so I moistened the seizing for the jewel block attachment to the eye and pulled it loose. Then the sheet block loop was pulled over the end of the gaff and more seizing was added to pull it tight around the gaff end.

 

Throathalliard.jpg.f70d147689a41ee2c035fb88142863b6.jpgBefore putting the jewel block and flag halliard back on the end of the boom I decided to finish rigging the gaff topsail. But Murphy wasn't done for the day!

 

As I pulled the sail sheet through the sheet block at the end of the gaff and the single block under the gaff jaws the rope twisted and a kink hung up in the block. Then I heard a "pop" and the gaff dropped down a bit on the mast! I wasn't pulling hard but apparently it was hard enough to break the plastic hook that attached the lower single block of the gaff throat halliard to the gaff.

 

I have broken several of these hooks while rigging the model, so a while back I made a bunch of metal hooks to be used where more strength was needed. I used one here.

 

 

Great! Now I had to repair the throat halliard before I could finish rigging the sail!! One step forward, two steps back! This was becoming tedious and frustrating.

 

Maingafftopsail2.jpg.3b2c3b9f838266f192db70698e5b8442.jpg

 

 

 

 

But as you can see in this picture I did get the throat halliard tackle back in place.

 

 

And I did get the topsail sheet installed and run down to belay on a cleat on the port side of the boom.

 

 

The tack was pulled down and belayed on a cleat on the starboard side of the boom.

 

 

Then I installed the jewel block and flag halliard back on the eye at the end of the gaff.

 

 

And I did get the double block stropped to the lower end of the topsail halliard. I am waiting for the glue to dry completely before I rig the luff tackle for the halliard. The single block will hook to an eye bolt on deck near the bulwark, and the fall of the tackle will belay on a pin on the port aft pin rail.

 

Over the past week or two I have been tidying up loose ends for lines already belayed to pin rails and fife rails. All of the lines for the main gaff sail, the main gaff and main boom have been belayed, so most of the rigging for the main mast has been completed!

 

 

 

 

This picture shows the schooner as it stands today. But if you look closely you will see several lines with clamps hanging from them to keep the lines taut while glue dries so that rigging can be finished.

 

Maingafftopsail3.jpg.9b478589192992e5c426213edb7a7657.jpg

 

 

Edited by Dr PR

Phil

 

Current build: USS Cape MSI-2

Current build: Albatros topsail schooner

Previous build: USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model

 

Posted

I had an "OH!" moment when I wondered if I had accounted for the 6 inches (152 mm) of rope I was using for these coils when I ordered the rope from Syren? I checked my rigging spreadsheet and I had allowed 7" (178 mm) for most of the rope coils, but only 3.5 inches (89 mm) for those that wouldn't need as many loops. So I was planning ahead. I should have over 100 inches (2.5 meters) excess rope for all the ropes used on the model! Whew!!”
 

That’s pretty good to be able to measure out your rope needs. I’m a habitual rope waster so don’t even try.

Completed Builds: AL Bounty Jolly Boat, Constructo Enterprise (logs lost in the great crash)

Current Builds: Constructo Bounty, AL King of the Mississippi

Up next: undetermined 

 

Posted

Auger,

 

I have a 2D CAD model profile that has all the rigging. From this I can measure the lengths of the lines. However, it isn't perfect! It also takes a bit of guesswork about how much line is used passing through blocks, deadeyes and such, how long the ropes in tackles will be, how much rope will be used in rope coils, etc.

 

So far it has been pretty accurate, but in at least one case so far my guess was about an inch (25.4 mm) short and I had to splice the line. Later I went back and replaced the spliced line with one long enough.

 

Even with my estimations there is a lot of scrap rope in the waste basket!

Phil

 

Current build: USS Cape MSI-2

Current build: Albatros topsail schooner

Previous build: USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model

 

Posted (edited)

The ship now has a main topmast staysail

 

Shipwithmaintopmaststaysail.jpg.d77be2dddc0d8caa779403db466fcbc8.jpg

 

 

maintopmaststaysail.jpg.63b17e00ea7046d5d9bd870a2d03e35d.jpg

The tack is tied to a ring on a metal band on the fore mast head. The halliard and stay pass through single blocks on the main mast and descend to belay on a fife rail in front of the main mast. I haven't rigged the downhaul yet (it is coiled beside the main top mast). It will pass through a single block tied to the same loop that the tack is belayed to and then descend to a pin on the fore starboard pin rail.

 

Right now the sail is supported only by the halliard and the tack. I am trying to decide how to tie the sail to the stay. Some people use wooden or metal hanks, but other books say metal hanks were introduced in the mid 1800s when wire rope came into use. Lees says they were used on English ships much earlier than that. And others say only wooden hanks or rope grommets were used with rope stays.

 

I think I will use rope grommets, but haven't made up my mind.

 

This was another trying day! Some place where I have shopped was hacked and my credit card number was stolen. I blocked a couple of illegal purchases last week, but my card was disabled. Then we had snow and ice for a couple of days and the credit union was closed Thursday through Monday. Finally today I got down there and got a new card.

 

maintopstaysailrigging.jpg.40f6cb31ccfca0ba1e2868f62893aaba.jpgWhen I got home I started rigging the main topmast staysail. And this turned out to be an exasperating exercise! This picture shows the luff tackles for the halliard and sheet. The lower blocks hook to eyebolts in the deck in front of the main mast partners - that was no problem. But the falls from those tackles belay to the outer pins on the fife rail in front of the mast.

 

It took one hour each to fasten those falls to the belaying pins!

 

The area is on the centerline, and there are dozens of stays and lines coming down all around, leaving very little room to get my hands in there. I had to work with two long tweezers and a hook to pull the lines in under the pin rail, loop them around the lower part of the pins, then back up behind the rail, over the top of the pin, and then pull the loose end under the part of the line looped around the pin.

 

For every step the rope kept springing back out of position, sometimes undoing two, three or all steps. So I started over, and over, and over ...

 

When I finally got everything in place I put some white glue on the rope where it crossed over and hooked under the rail.

 

Part of the real problem can be seen where the back part of the pivot gun slide comes very close to the fife rail. I can't belay the line to the front side of the rail because the rope coils would interfere with the motion of the gun! The lines have to be belayed from the back side of the rail. And that is a VERY tight workspace!

 

I still have two more lines to belay to the two center pins on that rail. They are the foremast topsail yard braces, and the yard isn't installed yet. That would have been difficult if the main topmast staysail halliard and sheet were not there. But they are, and they may make belaying the other two lines virtually impossible!

 

I'm pretty sure I will have to figure out a way to belay the braces to the pins before the lines are rigged up to the brace pendants.

 

When I finally got the halliard and sheet belayed I leaned back, took a deep breath, and reached to put a tool back in the box. My hand brushed the trailing edge of the main sail and there was a "pop!"

 

AARRRGGGGGHHHHHH!

 

failedseizing.jpg.454c3742742987b35cbce16eb8b12153.jpgThe double block of the main gaff sail sheet luff tackle pulled loose from an eye bolt on the bottom of the boom jaws!

 

Two steps forward and one step back!

 

The seizing on the rope eye around the eye bolt failed. Again, the white glue failed to hold and allowed the end of the rope to pull through the seizing. This is the same thing that happened to the main gaff topsail sheet block on the end of the gaff.

 

But the eyebolt under the jaws of the boom is in a very crowded, narrow space, with lines all around it. Repairing this will be like working through a spider's web without disturbing the web.

 

 

Splicethemainbrace.jpg.9526069aeb9009ddd530545732ec4e16.jpg

 

It was time to put the build aside and take a muscle relaxer. A double martini took the edge off for a while!

 

 

 

This build was a lot of fun up until I started on the sails and their rigging. Every step since then has been tedious, frustrating and very unrewarding. I started the hull in the 1980s and then other things took priority. The unfinished hull sat on the shelf for 35 years until I took up the build again about six years ago. I am thinking I may put it back on the shelf again for another 35 years!

Edited by Dr PR

Phil

 

Current build: USS Cape MSI-2

Current build: Albatros topsail schooner

Previous build: USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model

 

Posted

Phil, I am in awe 🫢 of your incredible detail. Especially the Sail works. You are doing incredible work. 
 

You are almost there, sometimes we can get a bit weary. Our own criticisms slow us down but that is what’s driving us to perfection. Take your time, work on it when you feel like it. Take a step back and take a look. Wow, she is beautiful. 
 

John
 

 

Gallery Photos of My Charles W Morgan 

Currently working on New Bedford Whale Boat

 

 

 

 

Posted

John,

 

Thanks. Flattery will get you everywhere!

 

I will fix that ^*&@! main sail sheet! But I may recall some sailor talk from when I was in the Navy!

 

I have a shipment of scale lumber on the way to add another layer of planking to the MSI hull. I will probably work on that project for a few weeks, and maybe do a bit of cleanup on the schooner.

 

But the schooner rigging isn't even close to half done, and there will be a LOT of lines belayed on the fife rail at the base of the fore mast! Imagine all the joy in that!

Phil

 

Current build: USS Cape MSI-2

Current build: Albatros topsail schooner

Previous build: USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model

 

Posted (edited)

No more shelf time Phil!   Ordinary only leads to troubles!   It looks fabulous and you're almost there.  (Maybe more martinis in your future though! 🤣 )

 

The sails really make an impression - I'll likely follow your lead!

 

Steve

Edited by Coyote_6

Steve

 

San Diego Ship Modelers Guild

Nautical Research Guild


Launched:    USS Theodore Roosevelt, CVN 71 (1/720, Plastic)

                       USS Missouri, BB 63 (1/535 Plastic) 

                       USS Yorktown, CV 5 (1/700, Plastic)

 

In Dry Dock:  Prince de Neufchatel, New York 1812 (1/58, Wood)

                        USS Enterprise, CVAN 65 (1/720, Plastic)

Posted
14 hours ago, Dr PR said:

I am thinking I may put it back on the shelf again

Don't you dare!

 

After all the time and research you've put in to getting this build right you deserve the satisfaction of calling it complete! Besides, you can't be the Godfather of schooner rigging with an unfinished schooner.

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Jsk said:

Godfather of schooner rigging with an unfinished schooner.

 

Jsk nailed it.   That handle is gonna stick!

 

"Godfather of Schooner Rigging!"

Edited by Coyote_6

Steve

 

San Diego Ship Modelers Guild

Nautical Research Guild


Launched:    USS Theodore Roosevelt, CVN 71 (1/720, Plastic)

                       USS Missouri, BB 63 (1/535 Plastic) 

                       USS Yorktown, CV 5 (1/700, Plastic)

 

In Dry Dock:  Prince de Neufchatel, New York 1812 (1/58, Wood)

                        USS Enterprise, CVAN 65 (1/720, Plastic)

Posted

Steve,

 

I have a number of ship modelling books that all advise against adding sails. They say the sails detract from the model, and hide some of the deck details. I suppose they might if not done correctly (whatever that means), but I really suspect these guys have tried it and know what a hassle it turns into!

 

I'm sure I won't shelve it permanently. I restarted the 30+ year old build because I got tired of looking at the unfinished model. Having only half the sails on it will be even more annoying!

 

But for now I think I will take a break. The Admiral also "suggests" a break (and you know what a "suggestion" from a superior officer means). I think she is annoyed because she thinks I spend more time on the model than with her.

 

Thanks for all the comments and support. But I'm not sure about that Godfather thing! What am I supposed to do, start rigging a new line and make it an offer it can't refuse?

Phil

 

Current build: USS Cape MSI-2

Current build: Albatros topsail schooner

Previous build: USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model

 

Posted (edited)

"Leave the jib.  Take the cannoli."

 

But yeah - a "suggestion" from the Admiral is not to be ignored.

Edited by Coyote_6

Steve

 

San Diego Ship Modelers Guild

Nautical Research Guild


Launched:    USS Theodore Roosevelt, CVN 71 (1/720, Plastic)

                       USS Missouri, BB 63 (1/535 Plastic) 

                       USS Yorktown, CV 5 (1/700, Plastic)

 

In Dry Dock:  Prince de Neufchatel, New York 1812 (1/58, Wood)

                        USS Enterprise, CVAN 65 (1/720, Plastic)

Posted (edited)

That ^*&@! main sail sheet has been fixed!

 

I have been experimenting with hanks to attach the min topmast staysail to the stay. First I did some research to determine what types of hanks were being used in the early 1800s. I have posted the results of that investigation at this link:

 

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/38044-hanks-for-attaching-staysails-to-stays/?do=findComment&comment=1088102

 

At the time of my model, about 1815-20, three types of hanks were used, and smaller vessels still laced staysails to stays. I decided that either grommets or wooden hanks would be appropriate for my model. But since I have already rigged the stays putting grommets (three turns of rope around the stay) would be a lot harder that making wooden hanks.

 

hanks1.jpg.33a5affe32ec108eec2607023a9dd310.jpgI decided to use the wooden hanks. But I think it would be very difficult to work with extremely thin wooden sticks (split bamboo) and get them curved properly. They might want to uncurl, especially when I was trying to tie them in place.

 

So I decided to use 0.012 inch (0.3 mm) brass wire. I used forceps to clamp one end of the wire to a 0.625 inch (1.6 mm) diameter drill bit shank. Then I wrapped the wire around the bit and trimmed off the end, making a "bow tie" shaped loop.

 

These are supposed to be wood so I painted them with the straw color acrylic paint I used on the masts and spars. I really didn't think the paint would stay on while was installing them, but maybe some would. And there is enough remaining on them after they were installed to look something like wood.

 

 

hanks0.jpg.f5119dcbdff397bd3cb070bc407089de.jpg

 

 

 

 

The first thing I did was lay the ship on its side so the stays would be parallel to the table top. I dreaded trying to fit the hank over a downward angled stay, they try to get it to hold in one place long enough to tie thread around it and then lace the whole thing to the sail.

 

Putting the ship on its side eliminated the problem.

 

 

 

 

hanks2.jpg.8bbf98d037e47d53cfdd8eeb9d296496.jpghanks3.jpg.4007df965703737c0cc9751b53085f01.jpg

 

The hanks had a gap between the ends wide enough to slip over the stay. Then I closed the gap with forceps. Next I used small (less than 0.006 inch or 0.15 mm) silk thread to tie an overhand knot horizontally across the "X" where the ends crossed and added a small drop of diluted white glue (about 2:1 glue to water). Then the long ends of the thread were looped under the "X" and back through the eye of the hank, and back down again. These ends were then used to tie an overhand knot vertically across the "X". This is actually the way the books show the real hanks being tied.

 

hanks4.jpg.05c3df1c7b59dae272a88ed6e7edb2e7.jpgThe long ends of the thread were pulled through a small hole in the sail, one from one side and the other in the opposite direction from the other side. The ends were pulled through the hank loop from opposite sides and tied in an overhand knot. Then all of the thread was soaked with the diluted white glue.

 

Here you can see the thread passed around the bolt rope and through the tabling This is important with silkspan sail material, because the thread could easily slice through the silkspan and come loose from the sail. Just as in real sails, it is the bolt ropes that carry the load.

 

I use silk thread for the seizings and other tying. The main advantage is that it goes totally limp with just a drop of water or water based glue. It isn't springy and always trying to unwind.

 

Here is the finished product.

 

maintopmaststaysail1.jpg.237195a99aa797b0157e3bf19b358ba2.jpg

 

 

maintopmaststaysail2.jpg.34f52919a511e269bb08663a808957af.jpgThe downhaul is tied to the peak cringle on the sail, where the halliard is also attached. The downhaul passes through every third or fourth hank to keep it hanging near the head of the sail along the halliard. At the sail tack it passes through a single sheave block and then descends to belay to a pin on the starboard forward pin rail.

 

The sail tack is tied (or hooked) to a ring on a band around the mast head. The downhaul block is also secured to the same ring on the mast band.

 

It actually was pretty easy attaching these hanks to the stay and sail. If you look closely at the photos you will see that some of the paint did chip off of the hanks. But enough remains that the hanks still look something like wood.

 

Four (sails) down and five to go.

 

Edited by Dr PR

Phil

 

Current build: USS Cape MSI-2

Current build: Albatros topsail schooner

Previous build: USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model

 

Posted

Phil, your rigging is looking really good, and your instructions can be implemented to other builds as well.

 

 

Please, visit our Facebook page!

 

Respectfully

 

Per aka Dr. Per@Therapy for Shipaholics 
593661798_Keepitreal-small.jpg.f8a2526a43b30479d4c1ffcf8b37175a.jpg

Finished: T37, BB Marie Jeanne - located on a shelf in Sweden, 18th Century Longboat, Winchelsea Capstan

Current: America by Constructo, Solö Ruff, USS Syren by MS, Bluenose by MS

Viking funeral: Harley almost a Harvey

Nautical Research Guild Member - 'Taint a hobby if you gotta hurry

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