Triton by SaturnV - 1:48 - Full Framed

[SaturnV]

Thank you Matrim. That is a good idea. I will go home to tonight and try to get an appropriate picture of myself.

 

I have another question, on the frame drawings for frames 28 through 19 there are degree numbers - i.e. frame 28 says 29 degrees.

Is this the amount of twist in the frame from top to bottom?

 

 

Richard

[SaturnV]

I have completed the bow portion of the keel and also all of the way back to the stern deadwood. I want to install the false keel before proceeding with the installation of the stern section so I am concentrating on that at the moment. The false keel is rather thin and I have to sand in the interlocking joints (term for this?) on them prior to installing. Should prove to be a learning experience. The false keel will be made from some walnut I collected from a friends house. He cut down the tree 10 years ago so that now the logs are perfect for modeling.

 

 

[harvey1847]

Good Work Richard.

 

Are you gonna make a jig or something or are you going to go for a log like Ed´s. I mean not using a jig but just a surface with the plan plotted and glued to a piece of wood and use squares to put the frames in place?

 

I´ll keep watching! best wishes.

 

 

Daniel.

[SaturnV]

I'm going to use the jig. I bought the wood and threaded rods for it last night.

 

I'm not getting any answers to my questions. I thought you guys were supossed to be helpful? ;-)

 

 

Richard

[SaturnV]

Ha ha! A miniature me for displaying with my progress pictures! Downright silly but still funny. Perhaps I have too much time on my hands.........

 

 

 

 

[trippwj]

Looks good so far - mini-you looks ready to go to work!

 

I think the joints you asked about are called scarphs.

Edited June 27, 2013 by trippwj

[harvey1847]

You forgot to wear  a  Hat... Being from Colorado and not wearing one is a shame Richard. I spent a year in Mesa Verde back in ´92 studying the 12th grade at Cortez HS. Really nice State.

 

The "interlocking things" (really funny term) are call SCARPHS. There´s hundred different types. They use tu tar the joint and caulk it. You´ll see there´s people arround that simulate this using white glue with black ink, or black pater o just a soft black pencil.

 

If I were you I would make first, either the stem or the stern with the cant frames and then go for the whole thing working from the extremes to the middle.

 

Best wishes!

 

 

Daniel.

[SaturnV]

Hi all,

Built the building jig over the weekend - see below pictures. Also made and attached the false keel. Still need to run the entire keel assembly through the thickness sander.

 

 

[harvey1847]

Nice Jig Saturn!

 

How did you glue the metal to the bottom. I used epoxi but how you did it? I guess there must be another method for that. Can you show a picture from the bottom of the first piece of wood. The one that goes on the table.

 

Regards.

 

 

Daniel.

[SaturnV]

Thanks for stopping by Daniel.

The threaded rod goes all the way through the board and there are 3/8" nuts and washers on the bottom - the threaded rod does not protrude out of those nuts on the bottom. The nuts, being of uniform thickness, give a nice level surface on the bottom board. This setup is not recommended for use on top of nice furniture because it will scratch whatever surface it touches.

I left the threaded rods long so they can be used for other things in the future after I am done with this project.

 

 

Richard

[harvey1847]

Thanks Richard!

 

 

I´ll go with that idea. Have you thought about plaster the bottom? Taped it with some sticky tape, don´t Know. Thanks again.

 

 

Daniel.

[the learner]

Great start! perhaps you can get the minnie you to work 24/7 as he needs no sleep or food! <chuckle>

[SaturnV]

Daniel, the wife has already banished the jig to my work desk and the work desk doesn't fret the scratches. I would say that you could put several things on the bottom bolts to make them softer but the nuts on the hardwood desk is the most stable. I'm happy withit as is. :-)

Minnie me just stares at me while I work. Doesn't seem to want to help...

Working on the frames now. Decided to start with the easiest first, frame 0. I'm using applewood and it is coming out well with clean straight joints and really smooth finish.
Several folks have suggested doing the whole ship in applewood so I am reconsidering remaking the keel. I'm not real happy with the way the rabbit came out so a remake might be in order.

Edited July 8, 2013 by SaturnV

[SaturnV]

Has anyone built frame A on sheet  -A-DoubleFrameComponents@48-1???

The fourth futtock is missing from the drawing, or, it does not get one. Any help would be appreciated.

[Matrim]

Does look missing. You do have the full frame plan though and since you have the lengths of both the floor and the second futtock you could lay cut outs of those on the complete plan and just mark of where the 4th futtock starts and thus get a fourth futtock.

 

Joss

[the learner]

Wow! yes I did not realize that and had gone back and printed up a new A sheet but just now looked at it and I see that the fourth futtock is indeed missing. it should not be much of a problem to draw up some new pieces..

 

Good catch!

Edited July 14, 2013 by the learner

[SaturnV]

So, I am getting to the point where I am cutting out frames "R" and above and frame "19" and above.

These frames not only are made up of curved parts but are also curved from forward and aft. This is a quite complex set of curves to get correct.

My plan is to cut out each piece the way they are shown on the individual parts pages (in a much thicker than normal piece of wood) and then sand or cut them down to the final shape - forward to aft - and then assemble the parts into a single frame. A difficult taks to say the least. Does anyone have a different technique that they have used, or plan to use, to make these very bent frame pieces? Just remember, the joint line down the center of the frame has to also be curved so just sticking two pieces of wood together and sanding down to the shape won't work.

 

Any opinions would be appreciated.

 

Richard

[harvey1847]

I would recomend you not to "eat" a lot of wood from the frames. To put them all together and with the help of ribband try to figure out the shape of the hull. Do not try to fit a single frame and put it on place.

 

I did this, thus shaping every single frame, and I had to repeat four of them because I ate to much to much wood out of the frame.

 

It´s my opinion. Hope to get back to my Triton on September.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

Daniel.

[SaturnV]

I guess I'm not getting my question properly across to folks.

So perhaps a picture is worth a thousand words as they say -

I have drawn large red arrows in the attached picture to show the curve I am refering to in my question. There are the curves that make up the shape of the frame (the curve of the hull) and then there appears to be a second set of curves (forward to aft in the edge view) that are going to be difficult to make.  I'm just trying to get folks opinion on how you would go about doing these second sets of curves. The problem is that if you cut out the frame pieces you no longer will have a flat surface to "glue" on a cut out of this second set of curves. The best I can come up with would be to sand a little, hold it up to the drawing, see where more needs to come off, sand some more, and repeat until you get the correct shape. Is that pretty much all I can do in this regard?

Thanks ahead of time for any responses back to this problem.

 

 

[the learner]

I think that where you assume there are additional curves is because of the angle at which the frame sits on the deadwood  makes it appear that there is some movement in the fore and aft view of the frame when you are looking dead on to the broadside of the ship. I agree with Daniel! leave a little extra material on the inside and out side of the frame and do not start you final shaping/fairing until all the frames are in place. Look at your Triton DOF framing plans and you can see what looks like curves  in the fore and aft cant frames which are in fact the shape of the frames inside and out,  as seen on the framing plan you glued on your building board and upper jig board, you will see that the frames are straight and not curved in any manner

 

 

As you can see from my hawk build in this view the foward cant frames are straight

 

.

 

and a broad side view the cant frames appear to have a bend foward when in fact they are straight up and down

 

 

The pictures are not perfect but is should give you the idea of how the frames at this point are shaped.

 

I am a visual learner too and it takes some understanding of how each piece of wood in the model is shaped and the bow and the stern are the worst areas to model using this method

Edited August 27, 2013 by the learner

[the learner]

It sometimes appears that we are mostly learning from each other! However on occasion we might get some of the more experienced builders to pipe up on our logs. Perhaps if we moved our build logs over to the scratch build section a little more help would be forth coming! Just my two cents  not to be taken wrong. I know that this is to be a special build with all of us building from the same set of plans that are provided free of charge, but it feels like we are the only ones telling each other how to proceed.

 

I know I have posted several questions with out getting a learned/professional response to it.

 

Druxley! where are you? 

 

this is Chuck's post on why we are separated from the scratch build section ( Because its a special project exclusively created for MSW. We developed the plans and offer them to folks at no charge. This forum was created to start a group that is working on them so ll logs and questions about its construction can be kept in one area. This will help all participating members to compare notes and find information.

Chuck). 

 

Chuck perhaps an added link from the Scratch build  section to our section at the top of the post would be nice?

 

Edited August 27, 2013 by the learner

[dvm27]

SaturnV,

 

If I understand your question correctly you are referring to the bevel of the frames. In the bow, the fore edge of each frame needs to be shaped to fay into the aft edge of the next frame.  I would recommend not pre-bevelling the frames unless you are very experienced. It is best to install all the frames first, then bevel with 80 grit sandpaper, gouges etc. Once properly bevelled the frames will have a smooth surface for the planking to land on.

[SaturnV]

The Learner, your first picture is perfect and answers my question. I have been looking for a picture at that angle all over the forum but never found one. Thank you for posting.

It is the edge view in the drawings of the individual frames that was throwing me off. I truely appreciate whoever made the drawings and is supplying them for free on this forum but that edge view is mis-leading. It shows the centerline between the aft and forward frames making me think that the frame is bent. I read technical drawings for a living so details are important to me - I take them at face value. It could be that the person drawing them was trying to make an isometric view but never said so on the drawing - it still says "aft/fore" under the view just like all of the other frames and still shows what appears to be the centerline. Maybe that centerline in this particular drawing is actually a corner line.

The other tough part of these drawings is that hidden lines are shown as a solid line. In technical drawing a hidden line is shown as a dashed line. But I can get past all of that if I know what is intended and now I do!  =)

 

My last question is about the degree marks on some of the drawings (in this drawing it says 24 degrees). Is this the amount the cant frames are canted compared to the keel? It really is not clear in the drawing but that is my guess.

 

As far as pre-beveling the frames, I will do that a little especially on the inside because that will be the most difficult area to sand. I'll get it close but still leave enough for sanding later.

 

Thank you all for your help. It is much appreciated.

 

Richard

[mtaylor]

Richard and Guy,

 

Here's part of the problem.... MSW crashed.   We lost all the background work and discussion along with almost all of the 3D renderings.   Very few of the Triton full-builds have been done and there are some differences from what you see in the prints compared to say.. a Hahn print.  Russ, I think, is the only one left who was involved and wasnt' involved towards the end of the project.   Needless to say, I'm not sure how much help being in the Scratch area you'd get.

 

Wang Shuo is the only log I can see with the completed full-build.

 

The angles.. yes, as I recall that is the angle from the keel.  Come in close on this but match the build board drawing for framing.   Much of what happens on the model, happened on the full size:  cut and rough shape, offer up the build, re-shape, re-offer... when close enough, fit and final shape.  It's a process.  Sometimes slow, sometimes agonizing, but always rewarding.

[SaturnV]

Mark,

I think we will get by okay.  I'll be leaving a goodly amount of material on the cant frames so that they can be faired after all frames are installed.

For me, I just require someone every once in a while to say "Rich, you do/do not understand the drawings".  =)

 

Thanks again everyone for your opinions and help. Now onward to frame number 1 zillion..........

 

Richard

[Kevin]

sorry i have not been able to help you, the help you seek is way beyond me- lol - 

[mtaylor]

Mark,

I think we will get by okay.  I'll be leaving a goodly amount of material on the cant frames so that they can be faired after all frames are installed.

For me, I just require someone every once in a while to say "Rich, you do/do not understand the drawings".  =)

 

Thanks again everyone for your opinions and help. Now onward to frame number 1 zillion..........

 

Richard

 

Richard,

 

I think we all need that from time-to-time.   I've not built the full hull version but I do try to stop by these logs as they are a source of inspiration.

[SaturnV]

A couple of pictures to prove I am still working on this model.

I been cutting up the frame pieces from the drawings and gluing them on apple wood (still 13 more to go).

 

Then cutting them up on the bandsaw. After cutting up each wooden frame piece I put them in an envelope marked with the frame number or letter. Once all are cut up I will start in earnest in putting the frames together. It will probably take me all winter to get them done.

Cutting up these frames makes for a lot of scrap that is too small to use for anything. The wife made me clean it all up for the holiday weekend. Something about her wanting to use the outdoor table for eating on. I thought it was there to catch my scrap wood.....

 

 

 

[Kevin]

i thought that was what patio tables were for also

[SaturnV]

I have finished cutting out all of the frame pieces and have them all in their individual envelopes marked with the frame number/letter. I decided to make the keel again, this time with the dark section of crab apple wood. It is strong and has the color I like. The Russion Olive wood keel did not turn out to my liking so I made the switch. For the next week or so I will be finishing the keel for the second time. Once complete I will begin building the frames. Slow but sure progress.

On a side note, when I got to the hawse timbers I had run out of my supply of apple wood. So I searched my closet for stock and came across a box of supreme apple wood that I had put aside for something special. It is strong, without grain, and is a nice pinkish-tan color. It is really nice stuff for carving but I needed it now so my bollard timbers and hawse timbers and the transom timbers will all be made of this wood. Here are some pictures of the wood. It is a limited supply that I have: