Jim Lad Posted May 18, 2013 #31 Posted May 18, 2013 Meredith, Always have plent of drills on hand. If you have plenty, you never break one. It's when you only have one left that it's sure to break! John augie 1 Quote
Meredith Posted May 18, 2013 Author #32 Posted May 18, 2013 Ok.. here is my plank bending jig for this hull (top area only) fatih79 1 Quote Current builds: MS Syren HM Suppy Dos Amigos Completed: Schooner for Port Jackson MS 18th Century Longboat Bounty Launch
Meredith Posted May 18, 2013 Author #33 Posted May 18, 2013 (edited) Now I cant believe how stupid I have been.. I got Jim's draw plate months ago. When it arrived I tried it out... hmm.. I put it away in the drawer. I did do some treenails on my little longboat.. but I used woodfiller as the "nail" I was using the draw plate all wrong. It only JUST dawned on me. I was trying to "draw" the entire piece of wood through the plate.. thinking I had to strip each piece down to this tiny fine hair. No wonder I put the thing away.. but the name.. "Draw plate".. I thought I ha to "draw" the entire length through.. it didn't look nice. So after my "DUH" moment a few posts ago.. I went and played for a few minutes. I used a toothpick and just put the tip in and pretended it was just like sharpening a pencil lead in sharpener... yeah ok... it worked :) The following photos are just rush in and see what happens. Of course for the real thing - I will choose a stain colour I like - and stain the toothpicks and let them dry before using them - I didn't bother here - I just wanted to see if it actually worked - and the "sharpen pencil lead" action was the right one... and made round nails... - yes it would if the stain was dry Of course in sanding the toothpicks back - I sanded of the stain - I wasn't really worrying about the condition of the "planks" - I was looking at the method for the toothpick. Of course they might not even need stain.. just left natural.. I will do some more experimenting. Edited May 18, 2013 by Meredith Pygothian 1 Quote Current builds: MS Syren HM Suppy Dos Amigos Completed: Schooner for Port Jackson MS 18th Century Longboat Bounty Launch
Meredith Posted May 18, 2013 Author #34 Posted May 18, 2013 Meredith, Always have plent of drills on hand. If you have plenty, you never break one. It's when you only have one left that it's sure to break! John Just had a count up - probably have about 10 drill bits of the same size that would be in scale. I will still order heaps more. I am due a present for myself - I got my first pay from my new job and I had some "me" money left over and haven't been able to decide what little present I get. My partner has been going mad on the internet with at LEAST 10 parcels arriving each week for ages now. I haven't purchased anything (but groceries of course). So I am going to buy myself some hand type tools, drill bits, sanding stuff, saw blades, maybe a mitre clamp.. nothing overly exciting - but I may as well make use of the shipping costs for a few tiny drill bits:) augie 1 Quote Current builds: MS Syren HM Suppy Dos Amigos Completed: Schooner for Port Jackson MS 18th Century Longboat Bounty Launch
Meredith Posted May 18, 2013 Author #35 Posted May 18, 2013 (edited) ok.. not totally sanded back - and because sanding is going to change the stain.. I sanded and then wiped a thinned down stain over to see how the treenails would colour. Would have preferred them unstained - but the sanding of the treenails - alters the planks - so unless I seal first.. then treenail and the sealer prevents the stain from being sanded.. hmm I dunno... But I guess being end grain the treenails will stain a bit darker as these pics show - so maybe I need to be satisfied with that. Edited May 18, 2013 by Meredith Quote Current builds: MS Syren HM Suppy Dos Amigos Completed: Schooner for Port Jackson MS 18th Century Longboat Bounty Launch
Meredith Posted May 18, 2013 Author #37 Posted May 18, 2013 These close up photos sure show all the mess that I need to clean up....mostly just sanding dust there.. and a bit of bleed from the paint that its hard to see by eye... good old camera gets it though. Looks very rough! Quote Current builds: MS Syren HM Suppy Dos Amigos Completed: Schooner for Port Jackson MS 18th Century Longboat Bounty Launch
mtaylor Posted May 18, 2013 #38 Posted May 18, 2013 Ah, you've discovered one of the banes of our hobby... the macro lens. Seriously, we are our own worst critics and the macro does us no favors. You're planking is looking pretty good and the treenails are the frosting on the cake. olliechristo 1 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
Meredith Posted May 18, 2013 Author #39 Posted May 18, 2013 Ok.. I found you can draw long lengths through the drawplate for the treenails... but they don't push into the drilled holes as easily as ones done the same size - but just pushing the tips through the draw plate. The "individual" methods gives me something to hold and push in with reasonable force - also pretty quick and easy to take down to size. I think the drill bit is about a #79 or #80 - so I presume they nails aren't too big scale wise. I have drawn them down to #24 on the draw plate. Two versions of the nail.... I prefer doing the tip version - I actually think they look neater too. Might even finish one side today.. I am just doing round all the ports first - just one or two bulkhead rows done so far. Thought I would do the ports first and then decide the placement for the others. Not sure just going by the bulkhead line is going to look right - so I am off to search through other build logs of the Syren to make up my mind. Quote Current builds: MS Syren HM Suppy Dos Amigos Completed: Schooner for Port Jackson MS 18th Century Longboat Bounty Launch
gjdale Posted May 18, 2013 #40 Posted May 18, 2013 Hi Meredith, Forgive me if this is "sucking eggs" territory, but just wanted to check that you are using the draw plate in the correct way. The stock should be fed into the draw plate from the "back" of the plate (ie the unnumbered side). Is the way you are using it? If not, you may find better results trying this. Quote Grant ____________________________________________________ Current builds: African Queen - Radio Control / Live Steam Previous builds: The Shipyard at Foss' Landing (Diorama), Hannah - Ship in a Bottle, NRG Capstan Project, 1869 Allerton Steam Pumper, Medway Longboat , Alfa Romeo Spider Gran Touring (Pocher) , Da Vinci Flying Machine, 1949 Chris Craft 19' Racing Runabout - Dumas - Radio, Bomb Vessel Granado, 1742 - Cross Section - Scratchbuild, HMS Victory (Mamoli 1:90), Cutty Sark, Armed Pinnace, Bounty, Santa Maria At another place: Stephenson's Rocket (OcCre 1:24) (click the title to follow the link) In the Gallery: Lancia Armata 1803, Bomb Vessel Granada, 1742 Cross Section, 1949 Chris Craft 19' Racing Runabout
Meredith Posted May 19, 2013 Author #41 Posted May 19, 2013 Yep - I am starting at the un-numbered side (littler hole) . Must admit - I did try both :) and there is no sucking eggs for me when it comes to boat building - ANY and EVERY suggestion, tip and comment is gratefully accepted. I am finding just sizing the tips is best for me. Gives me a good hold on the un-sized/top/handle part of the tooth pick so I can add a bit of force (remember I mean girl force.. pretty gentle lol) - both when I size and then when I insert into the drilled hole. Its actually going a lot quicker than I thought - its only 9.30am and I have almost half one side done - I have drilled all the holes.. just inserting the second half of the nails. I must be in a rhythm now. And I am not finding it tedious like I thought I would. I might change that famous last statement when I get to the 1000th treenail Quote Current builds: MS Syren HM Suppy Dos Amigos Completed: Schooner for Port Jackson MS 18th Century Longboat Bounty Launch
Jim Lad Posted May 19, 2013 #42 Posted May 19, 2013 Wailt 'till you get to the 10,000th one, Meredith! John Quote
Meredith Posted May 19, 2013 Author #43 Posted May 19, 2013 Ha! 10,000.... either I stick to little boats.. or get in the mind set like a native tribe I came across... the way they count.. 1 2 3 4 5 1,000,000 Because anything larger than 5 is just to big to comprehend Quote Current builds: MS Syren HM Suppy Dos Amigos Completed: Schooner for Port Jackson MS 18th Century Longboat Bounty Launch
augie Posted May 19, 2013 #44 Posted May 19, 2013 Don't count........until you're finished. Whether it's copper plates, treenails or the dreaded ratlines! Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956
Jim Lad Posted May 19, 2013 #45 Posted May 19, 2013 Meredith, I've heard that some of the more remote tribes in PNG who count like that - 1, 2, 3, many. I think that might be how our Commonwealth Treasury counts! John gjdale 1 Quote
Meredith Posted May 19, 2013 Author #46 Posted May 19, 2013 Yeah - PNG is where I came across it. I learnt about it REAL quick. I sent a local off to get 8 x 12" flanges - never did that twice. I worked out that if I send them for a small number of things - like 3 or 4 all is good - but anything over 5 - you have no idea what you will get - could be two or a whole convoy of trucks filled to the brim with flanges. Or worse still - "go and bring 6 of the crew back here to work on this line"... well they would go off.. get as many as they could fit in any sort of transport - think.." hmm... maybe 6 is a whole lot more than this".. so then go and round up as many villager's as they could find - leaving me to explain why there isn't enough work and why I cant fit for 300 people on 2 small scaffolds! Quote Current builds: MS Syren HM Suppy Dos Amigos Completed: Schooner for Port Jackson MS 18th Century Longboat Bounty Launch
guitarguy687 Posted June 6, 2013 #47 Posted June 6, 2013 Looking great! I am itching to get started on my Syren, so I will be watching enthusiastically! Pygothian 1 Quote -Thomas "If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea." "A man without a goal is like a ship without a rudder." Current Builds: U.S. Brig Syren - Model Shipways 18th Century Longboat - Model Shipways Future Builds: Armed Virginia Sloop - Model Shipways Hannah, Ship in a Bottle - Amati Taurus Steam Towboat - Model Shipways Mayflower - Model Shipways 18th Century Sea Mortar - Model Shipways Completed Builds: HMS Victory Cross Section - Corel Sir Winston Churchill Sailing Ship - Billings Boats Naval Smoothbore Deck Cannon - Model Shipways
Meredith Posted June 15, 2013 Author #48 Posted June 15, 2013 (edited) Ok.. small updates.. Those gun ports have really been worrying me.. I hated them... Sooooooo... I decided to sand back the red inner hull framing.. which then gave me a chance to neaten up all the edges of the planking around the openings. Made sure they were all the same size (some how one of the ports was larger than the others - not enough care in the early stages I guess). The made little window frames out of pear (which is way less hairy and really smooth and easy to work with) and installed them - they are back to the right size opening according to the plans. One side needs a bit of a touch up with the paint or maybe just even a wipe over with a moist cotton bud - but that's easy - I will leave that until I am finished with the sanding etc of the planks - cause they only get messy again when I sand. Little bits of dust stuck in corners etc. They aren't perfect - but they are better. My other option was to pull all the planking off and start again. I thought I would try this first and see if I could live with it. I also attached the transom "planking" - took me a while to decide on what finish I wanted. I looked at every log here I could find. Seems there were three options I narrowed it down to.. 1. Leave as one flat piece as per the plans - and just stain same as side planking. 2. Paint black like the lower area (one log made this look very attractive!) 3.Or plank the transom (and the added surround) and add treenails and stain later with the side planking... I chose the third option after MUCH swapping back and forth between finishes... I think it should come out ok - with the other black bits to be added around it. On to the photos.. I have attached the Garboard plank.... but with working on my Bounty launch at the same time - not sure I have quite enough clamps to get the next two planks bent and drying and awaiting their turn to be glued. So I might go back and start the treenails on the other side today as I am waiting for glue to dry on my Bounty too... OR I could sit on the internet and look at stuff to buy I have saved enough money to buy a milling machine and maybe.. maybe.. a lathe. I just cant decide which ones! if I go the Proxxon - I cant afford both. I cant afford a Sherline at all.. so MANY decisions. I spent most of last night looking and comparing (like I really KNOW what I am comparing ) - I am even considering the Chinese ones.. after all I am told Proxxon is made in China....Ohh its so hard! I have been looking and ogling for months... Or I might just go cheaper and in a totally different direction and get a Foredom or something like that - so I can TRY and play with some wood carving for the decorations on the ships (watched a lot of you tube videos on woodcarving and logs here last night and got enthused). Or I could go even cheaper and just get a flexi shaft and handpiece for my current Proxxon rotary or dremel rotary tools.... Edited June 15, 2013 by Meredith fatih79 and Pygothian 2 Quote Current builds: MS Syren HM Suppy Dos Amigos Completed: Schooner for Port Jackson MS 18th Century Longboat Bounty Launch
Jim Lad Posted June 15, 2013 #49 Posted June 15, 2013 You're making good progress in spite of your problems, Meredith. I think I'd stay away from the el cheapo Chinese stuff unless you can give it a person good inspection before buying. John Quote
Meredith Posted June 15, 2013 Author #50 Posted June 15, 2013 I cant buy anything by looking at it first... I have to buy sight unseen via internet. I did see the new little Proxxon one - along with comparing to their bigger models. I visited Proxxon World in Tuggerah last year and got to look at all their range. Then of course I am going to have to learn how to use it - and what it can do! ohh and then I need to work out what accessories and end mills would be the most valuable to me. of course I am heading in the direction of a scratch build - but I think I will start with a POB first - the POF scare me - they are so beautiful - but I don't think I have close to the skills required. I am really grateful to Youtube and logs here to try and pick up what tools can accomplish for you and I am afraid I am a bit of a tool junkie - I LOVE them :) I now need to spend lots of practice time to get competent at using what I have already! Quote Current builds: MS Syren HM Suppy Dos Amigos Completed: Schooner for Port Jackson MS 18th Century Longboat Bounty Launch
mtaylor Posted June 15, 2013 #51 Posted June 15, 2013 Meredith, Your build is coming along swimmingly... and I like the way you're backing up when needed and doing things until you're happy. As for the power tools.. if it wasn't for the internet, many (maybe most of us?) wouldn't have a clue what to do with a lathe or any power tool. There's plenty of sites out there with good info on "how-to". Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
Meredith Posted June 15, 2013 Author #52 Posted June 15, 2013 Been having a little bit of poison dart practice here.. and I think our aim is improving Now its back to planking. Should be able to get the two un-tapered planks each side up from the Garboard done - then move back over to the bounty launch and get 4 more planks done on her.. Pygothian and fatih79 2 Quote Current builds: MS Syren HM Suppy Dos Amigos Completed: Schooner for Port Jackson MS 18th Century Longboat Bounty Launch
Jim Lad Posted June 15, 2013 #53 Posted June 15, 2013 Nicely 'echidna'd', Meredith! John augie 1 Quote
Meredith Posted June 16, 2013 Author #54 Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) ok... I am back to where I was a few weeks ago. I fixed the gun ports - not brilliant - but better than they were. I still have to repaint them as they have a little bit of stain on them and that's changed the colour. So a light sand and repaint. Might do that later tonight. Then its onto the rest of the planking - now I have all my clamps back in service as the bounty launch has been planked!! Edited June 16, 2013 by Meredith yvesvidal, fatih79, Dubz and 2 others 5 Quote Current builds: MS Syren HM Suppy Dos Amigos Completed: Schooner for Port Jackson MS 18th Century Longboat Bounty Launch
augie Posted June 16, 2013 #55 Posted June 16, 2013 Gunport looks very good to me! Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956
Pygothian Posted October 1, 2013 #56 Posted October 1, 2013 I'm seriously thinking of tree nailing my Syren after seeing your log! It's the little attention to detail that makes the difference and I appreciate the how much work goes into it, even though many others who look at the finished model would have no idea Cheers Rowan Quote Current Build - US Brig Syren - Model Shipways - 1:64 - 1st wood build Armed Virginia Sloop with complimentary 8x paint MS paint set - Model Shipways - Ordered 31st October 2013 Victory Cross Section - Corel - Ordered 15th October
Meredith Posted October 4, 2013 Author #57 Posted October 4, 2013 Go for it Rowan... I think for small effort it makes a big difference. I actually liked doing it and didn't find it tedious at all. I am back to my Syren now after finishing the Bounty Launch - but I am already stuck! \I had a play with the top/outer wales weeks ago - got them bent - but never fitted them as they just weren't sitting right. I put them away and went back to Bounty.. So tonight I decided I could start on the transom and the filler pieces and fashion pieces. I have spent the last hour scouring through all the Syren build logs. I must have made a mistake somewhere as the suggested wood doesn't seem to fit to me. I am going back to look at it again... (and again and again) - geez this bit should be easy... I will take photos tomorrow and hopefully someone can point me in the right direction Quote Current builds: MS Syren HM Suppy Dos Amigos Completed: Schooner for Port Jackson MS 18th Century Longboat Bounty Launch
augie Posted October 4, 2013 #58 Posted October 4, 2013 Glad to see you back, Meridith. Treenailing looks spectacular. By all means, post a photo or two of the problem area. Some one of us should be able to assist. Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956
Pygothian Posted October 4, 2013 #59 Posted October 4, 2013 You should write a step by step log on your tree nailing technique, as I think it is one of the best examples I've seen and would love to copy you ! Cheers Meredith. Rowan Quote Current Build - US Brig Syren - Model Shipways - 1:64 - 1st wood build Armed Virginia Sloop with complimentary 8x paint MS paint set - Model Shipways - Ordered 31st October 2013 Victory Cross Section - Corel - Ordered 15th October
Meredith Posted October 4, 2013 Author #60 Posted October 4, 2013 I have been sitting out in my breezeway contemplating.. re-measuring the bits of timber - boy do I hate these imperial measurements :) yeah to make it quicker for the brain - I do have a conversion table pinned to my wall!! Like a couple of others - I am short the right timbers for my upper/outer wales. so after much contemplation and playing around with substitutes - I have decided I have some other timber I am going to TRY and cut to size in the morning. (some really nice billets from Hobby Mill - in various timbers). I am also thinking the transom does have to be sanded back a bit - then the instruction sort of make sense. Of course before I tackled it - this bit looked dead easy when reading the instructions ahead of time! I am pretty sure the cap rail on the transom will come into meet the thickness of the wales - if that really IS the case - the transom does need to be sanded back. The instructions read like the filler pieces would be the ones sanded back to match the profile of the transom. But I think its a bit of both now. I will get the camera out in the morning and post pictures - I am sure someone here will easily set me right! Rowan: My technique is rather bush carpenterish compared to others here - but MORE than happy to help you and show how I did it. I am pretty sure I can quicken it up and improve it next time around. So I will post pics when I get to the deck planking - as I will definitely treenail that too...... and another "BUT"... where ohh where is YOUR build log.... :) jump in man- people here are so helpful! I am just really slack at the photo taking. Quote Current builds: MS Syren HM Suppy Dos Amigos Completed: Schooner for Port Jackson MS 18th Century Longboat Bounty Launch
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