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Brad - From My experience this is used by Scratch builders. One of the first things the do after setting the frames is drill a hole in the keel and glue a nut on the inside. This way later in the build they can add a threaded rod thru the keel and mount it to a base. This also has the advantage of being able to adjust the height as needed.

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Bob,

 

When I built my Flying Fish in 1969 I made a cradle for it. Forty three years later it had been bumped off the cradle several times and was looking pretty sad, so I decided to switch to a pedestal stand. I built and finished the base, drilled and countersunk the holes, and clamped the base to saw horses with the bottom exposed. I balanced the ship on the pedestals and base, and my wife held it while I lay on the floor and drilled into the hull. The old Flying fish had a solid hull so two long screws held it securely to the base. The attached base gives me something to safe to hang on to when I have to move the model, so I like it a lot better than the cradle.

 

Rod

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Rod - I am sorry to hear you had so much trouble with your Flying Fish (my next planned build, BTW).  I will try to be real careful about knocking the ship around and to keep it out of the cats' reach.  I'm curious - did you glue the ship to the cradle or fasten it in any other way?

 

Hi Blackie and thanks for stopping by.  I don't know how creative I'll be.  I was thinking of using the billet that had the bulkheads to get the general shape of the cradle and running a couple of horizontal dowels between the two cradle pieces.  I need to think about it some more - but there's plenty of time for that.

 

Dave - it's good to hear from you too.  Still at it, and still moving slowly.

 

Brad - I agree, this sharing of thoughts and ideas is a big benefits to everyone!

 

Gerty -  I'm not sure how I missed you.  Thanks for the kind words.

 

Floyd - it may have been a learning build, but I think it came out very well and deserves a place in the gallery.  Besides it's nice for those just starting out to see that someone managed to get all the way through their first build and do a good job of it too!

 

I was away for the weekend and managed to get some time on the water, even if it was only a harbor cruise out of Portsmouth, NH.  It felt great to be standing on a pitching deck again!  I have been feverishly rereading everything Mastini had to say about rigging as well, just another excuse to procrastinate (like I really need one).

 

Bob

 

 

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Bob

 

The attached image shows the "cradle" that I made to overcome the slight list that the model developed. The cradle, made from some scrap timber, sits away from the model and allows a good view of the hull but supports it also.  Perhaps I should have accentuated the list as the model has some "sails" but I didn't.

 

Good luck

post-2947-0-34596800-1375185980_thumb.jpg

Edited by Blackie
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  • 4 weeks later...

I have a question about this ship. I am new on here and This is my first build, and im doing the model shipwasys bluenose. Now, after the stern blocks go on the instructions tell you to put on the quater frames and to carve a peice for the tumble home to a fake stanchion. I can see this on the plans as well, but there are no specifics. What do i use to carve it? What are the dimensions? it just doesnt tell you anything. I know about the practicum by bob hunt, but i have hard time wanting to dish out that much money for a practicum.

 

Jake

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Jake,

They illustrate the block in the instructions. Take a close look at the stern view on the plans along with the side and plan views. Start with a block that appears about the right size and begin carving and sanding. If you aren't sure, practice with a scrap block of balsa to work out hte size and shape. That will give you a good template to make the parts out of the basswood. You may need to laminate a couple of sheet or wide strip pieces to get the block thick enough.

 

Pleae consider starting a build log. This is a great way to get help and MSW has the best ;).

 

Dave B

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  • 3 weeks later...

Bob, just thought I would stop in and say...WOW! This is absolutely a beautiful build. I'm blown away with your details. I'm "brand spankin new" to wood models and this really inspires me to make the extra effort.

 

I just ordered my bluenose this week but I feel like ive already started after reading you log. So many great tips from your details. I cant wait to get started.

 

Thanks for your hard work at not only building a beautifuk ship but sharing it with those of us that have so much to learn

 

John

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Thanks for the kind words, John.  It's nice to know this can be useful to others, definitely one of my goals for the log.  BTW, Bluenose is my first "real" wood build as well.  I encourage you to start a log for your build, it is a great way to share the journey, get input from those in the know, and help keep you motivated when the doldrums strike.

 

Bob

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Time to get serious about sails.  After much mulling and thinking and re-thinking I have decided to do stitch-less sails as a first attempt.  I have heard over and over that it is better to make things underscale rather than overscale if there is a choice between the two and stitching on a sewing machine feels overscale to me.  The first thing to do is to make templates for the sails.  I was able to use the plan and my flatbed scanner to get some of the jib sails copied but it was not a pleasant experience, so I decided to resort to something a bit lower tech.

 

Using a ruler and a protractor, I lifted lengths and angles from the plan and drew the foresail out on a piece of legal-size paper.

 

post-547-0-74128400-1379686745_thumb.jpg

 

My drafting skills aren't the best so I had a bit of a miss at the corner under the gaff and needed to make a correction to match the plan.

 

post-547-0-77168000-1379686747_thumb.jpg

 

Then I added the hem allowance to the drawing by marking the width from the plan on my drawing and connecting the dots.

 

post-547-0-30903800-1379686749_thumb.jpg

 

The finished drawing came out like this:

 

post-547-0-13758600-1379686751_thumb.jpg

 

My thought is to cut out the pattern and trace it onto the sail cloth.  I will draw the seam lines in pencil, then fold over the hem and use fabric glue to fasten it to the sail.  I will add the reef bands the same way, glueing them across the face of the sail.

 

As I was doing this drawing I found myself wishing for a 2D CAD program that would allow me to input line lengths and angles and have the sail pattern generated that way.  All the available free programs I looked at seemed too complicated for such a simple task.  If anyone has experience I'd love to hear about it.

 

I also have a question about the drawn-in seams - do they need to be drawn on both sides of the sail or will drawing on one side be enough?  I guess I'll get my own answer when I actually do the work.

 

Thanks,

Bob

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Bob,

What cloth did you decide to use? If it frays, I recommend using Fraycheck. A small bottle will do Nelson's entire navy. I applied it before I cut the sails. It dries clear but it stiffens the cloth which makes the hem harder to fold. I ironed mine and it was a bit of work to keep the hem small. If you use Fraycheck, test it with your fabric cement to be sure all turns out well. Wouldn't want it self combusting. :o

 

Dave B

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Dave -  I decided to go with the quilters cloth - more body, tighter weave, and more of it for when I screw things up.  I have been looking into Fray-Check and have seen some of the concerns about how stiff it makes the cloth.  I did read on a sewing forum (the things we do for our hobby) that if you take a steam iron to it while it is drying that the stiffness is eased somewhat.  I doubt I am going to attempt that with the Admirals iron!

 

I downloaded a 2d CAD program called DraftSight and drew a sample foresail. using the measurements and angles from the plan.  It came out much closer than my freehand drafting.  The program also has the ability to put in parallel lines at a set distance from a reference line, which is very handy for the tabling and drawing in the seams.  The only problem I am having at the moment is printing sail patterns for larger than letter-size sails.  The program doesn't have many tuning knobs for printing (no margin setting, for example) so I am trying to figure that out.

 

Finally I am considering scrapping the kit-supplied rigging thread and going with Chucks product.  I need to figure out what sizes I need and roughly how much of each size.  If I ever locate the parts list again I will check if it has the amount on each spool.  If not I'll just unroll one of them and measure!

 

 

Bob

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I was able to spend a little more time with LibreCad this evening - I misspoke when I said I was using DraftSight earlier.  I figured out how to get different portions of a drawing to print by sliding the paper around in the "print preview" view and how to widen the lines a bit so they would be more visible when printing.  I added a couple of circles  to the foresail drawing to use as registration marks for lining up the two pages and also added the lines for the reef bands to the drawing, again using the parallel line feature to get them positioned properly.  Here is what the sail template looks like now.

 

post-547-0-07493400-1379820321_thumb.jpg

 

Then I did some rough trimming:

 

post-547-0-67051500-1379820343_thumb.jpg

 

I figure I can use this to get the actual shape completed and then trace it to something a bit stiffer to use in cutting the sail cloth.

 

Bob

Edited by bhermann
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  • 4 weeks later...

I was not pleased with my attempts to draft sail templates by hand and didn't relish the need to do it 8 times, so I went looking for a CAD program to do it for me.  I chose LibreCAD, a free download.  This entry and the next will document the process I used to draw the main sail.

 

Most of the LibreCAD functions I used were found in the line drawing menu of LibreCAD, which is shown in the first photo.  Up first - draw a horizontal line to draw the foot of the sail.  The "horizontal" function allows input of the length of the line to be drawn - and here it is:

 

post-547-0-35432200-1395154578_thumb.jpg

 

The "angle" function is then used to add the leech line.  The angle from the foot and the length of the leech are input, then it's a matter of clicking the aft end of the foot to place the line.

 

post-547-0-21687200-1395154580_thumb.jpg

 

post-547-0-69279100-1395154581_thumb.jpg

 

The angle function is used again to draw in the luff line.

 

post-547-0-93071400-1395154582_thumb.jpg

 

Then the head is drawn at an angle from the leech.  This leave a small gap that is closed using the point to point function to represent the piece of the luff that that deflects away from the mast just below the gaff.

 

post-547-0-44053300-1395154584_thumb.jpg

 

The "Parallel" function is then used to draw the lines for the sail tabling external to the existing sails.   That function allows you to specify the distance between the base line and the new line, then the mouse is used to select the side the parallel line will be drawn on.

 

post-547-0-28804500-1395154640_thumb.jpg

 

There is a function to extend the tabling lines so they form a nice corner (not shown in the next photo).

 

post-547-0-13731800-1395154641_thumb.jpg

 

The parallel function is then used to place the seam lines for the sail panels. the plan calls for them to be parallel to the leech.

 

post-547-0-05927200-1395154643_thumb.jpg

 

After all the parallels are drawn, it looks like this.

 

post-547-0-37931400-1395154645_thumb.jpg

 

Then the trim function is used to clean up the line ends.  That function allows you to identify which line will be used to mark the end of the seam line, then click on the seam line to trim the seam.  This photo shows the process in operation.

 

post-547-0-22535100-1395154647_thumb.jpg

 

The next post will show the remainder of the process and the result.

 

Thanks,

Bob

Edited by bhermann
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...Continuation

 

After all the seam lines are trimmed, this is the result.

 

post-547-0-07181500-1395154992_thumb.jpg

 

The parallel function is used one more time to draw in the reef bands, parallel to the foot of the sail; once placed they too are trimmed.

 

post-547-0-33203600-1395154995_thumb.jpg

 

post-547-0-32172700-1395154997_thumb.jpg

 

Since this sail is going to be larger than my letter-size paper, I then set up a series of circles to use as registration marks when putting the printed sail pieces together.  I may have gone a bit overboard, but I wanted to makes user I had two circles available when lining up any two pages.

 

post-547-0-56468400-1395154999_thumb.jpg

 

The programs print function allows you to position which portion of the sail will wind up on the printed page.

 

post-547-0-35903400-1395155001_thumb.jpg

 

I wound up with 5 pages for the mainsail and assembled them using the registration marks, then taped them together.

 

post-547-0-83296700-1382453477_thumb.jpg

 

After trimming along the edges this is the end result.

 

post-547-0-23973300-1382453480_thumb.jpg

 

Any questions/comments are appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Bob

Edited by bhermann
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Bob,

 

Very nice sail pattern!  And a rather large main sail.  The CAD capability I would think will be a big help with the remainder of your sails. 

 

I've seen Libre CAD on-line but hadn't known of anyone who used it.  What was your general impression of it?  Worth using for more work beyond sails?

 

I really look forward to seeing your Bluenose with sails.

 

Cheers,

 

Elia

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Hi Elia - thanks for stopping by.  It IS a rather large sail, isn't it.  I have done up the foresail as well and done a very rough attachment to the model.  I'll post a picture tomorrow if I get a chance.

 

Once I figured my ay around in LibreCAD, I was very happy with the functionality.  Of course I am only using it in a 2D fashion so I can't say how useful it might be in a frame building or lofting scenario.    f I ever get to that stage, I'll be looking for recommendations from the more experienced modelers here. It does have exactly the toolset I was looking for to make sails. I will continue to use it as is for the time being and if something simple 3D comes up down the line that I'd like to expand how I use it, I'll certainly give it a shot.

 

I guess I should draw up a template for something simpler, one of the jibs perhaps, and use that to start seeing how this all translates into cutting and making a sail out of cloth.

 

Thanks,

Bob

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Floyd -   in this case I am working under the assumption that what is provided in the plans IS a 2D sail template.  In short, my CAD drawings don't take this into account, they assume that a bunch of flat strips of cloth were sewn together to make a bigger flat sheet.  I will shape the finished product into wind-filled sails after cutting them out and adding details.  I don't know how I'll do that just yet, but there are lots of interesting approaches to be found on MSW.

 

Pete - thanks for stopping by and for the kind words.  I love the quote in your signature.

 

As promised, I temporarily attached the the main and fore sails to check for rough fit and to get a feel for where I might be headed with them.  Here are the photos.

 

post-547-0-03080700-1382546534_thumb.jpg post-547-0-40790100-1382546536_thumb.jpg

 

Thanks,

Bob

 

 

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Bob,

I'm glad to see you making progress. Beware of CAD programs, they suck up vast amounts of time. The sails are going to look great, can't wait to see them set.

Dave B

Thanks for the warning, Dave. I will stick with sails for now - should keep me out of trouble.

 

Bob

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  • 3 weeks later...

I went ahead and started drawing up some of the jibs.  The jumbo jib turned out just fine, but when it came to the larger jib itself, I was not able to get the three sides to intersect properly using the measurements from the sail plan.  I kept winding up with a small gap at the head end of the sail.  No matter how many times I measured the lengths and angle I could not get the triangle to close.

 

I assumed the issue was with the angle measurements so I decided to change my process a little.  I know that if the lengths of the three sides of a triangle are known, the angles can be calculated using some trig functions, so I decided to do up my own little calculation spreadsheet to get the angles based on the lengths I measured.  Before getting started, it occurred to me that this big old Internet was out there and I should check because someone has probably already done it.  Sure enough a quick Google search gave me several pages to choose from.  The ostermiller.org site had just what I was looking for at http://ostermiller.org/calc/triangle.html.  I plugged in my three lengths and the page quickly gave me what I was looking for.  I was then able to drop the lengths and angles into LibreCad to get the sail outline, draw in tabling and stitch lines as shown in previous posts, and generate the sail pattern. Remaining to do are the balloon jib, the fishermans sail, and the two topsails.  After that I will take one of my templates and see how it works on cloth.

 

Bob

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Russ - you bring a smile to my face.  Of course I could have traced the sails, but that would have required me to think about it :D

 

Now that I'm done slapping myself in the forehead, let me try to justify.  Let's see, by doing the drawings I'll be able to share my work with any of the thousands of people who are out there build the exact same model I am, and in the same scale?... No, that won't do it..., that would be two people in the known universe.

 

I have a high tech job, and my mind is just wired for using technology whenever possible? Nah, I'm still writing checks every month and sending them to the utility company instead of paying on-line...

 

The sails on the plan show the finished size and don't include the extra needed for the tabling and if I hadn't done it this way I'd have had the devil of a time getting the tabling lines drawn parallel to the edges given my weak drafting skills?  Yeah, I'll go with this one.  After all I'm the guy who couldn't recreate a triangle by measuring it and letting the computer handle the drawing!

 

OK - now that that's settled, Russ, please continue your efforts to show me the better way.  I can hardly wait to hear what the admiral has to say about this one!  Simpler is often better, just not obvious to some of us.  :wacko:

 

And by the way, if anyone would like the drawings once I have them all done, just send me a PM and I'll be happy to share.  For those of you who remember MSW 1.0, I did something similar with a spreadsheet that documented all eyebolts located on the stanchions and rails that several people got a copy of and found useful.  I am willing to share anything I draw up along the way.  One future example will be a spreadsheet of all the lines I have rigged. This one has been started and so far has only the bowsprit lines documented (since that's all I've rigged up to now).

 

Thanks,

Bob

 

 

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