Oseberg Ship by KrisWood - 1:25 - Vibeke Bischoff Plans

[KrisWood]

Hi @Binho,

 

Actually, the positions and angles of the frames and the placement of the planks were one of the easier parts to reconstruct. The plank clamps, through which baleen was sewn and lashed onto matching holes in the bottoms of the frames, were hewn from the same wood as the planks themselves. Between the clamps and the rivet holes it's possible to mathematically reconstruct the placement and angle of each plank as it originally was and thus the placement and angle of each frame.

 

The Vikings who built the ship definitely knew exactly how they would place each frame, even though it's built hull first, before the first plank was attached to the keel, because each plank had to be fashioned with the clamp in place from the start.

 

This was actually a struggle in building Saga Oseberg because neither the laser scan nor the optical scan of the museum display of the ship were able to pick up the clamps, so they had to be painstakingly measured by hand. Many of the clamps were crushed under the weight of the burial mound, but enough survived to make an educated guess as to their arrangement.

 

While building Saga Oseberg (according to the Saga Oseberg book) they had to then make educated guesses as to how these would have been hewn from the wood in such a way that the flat planks would bend into the correct clamp locations when attached to the hull. Apparently they got it to work, because the replica is quite seaworthy (has crossed the Baltic at least twice).

 

To answer your other question, I've got several resources for these drawings.

 

The Norwegian University Museums Photo Portal has tons of high resolution scans and photos:

http://www.unimus.no/foto/#/

 

It's tricky because everything is in Norwegian but I'm getting pretty good at figuring out which Norwegian keywords pull up which results. 

 

 

The Viking Ship Museum in Roskilde, Denmark has several video lectures about (and videos of various steps in the building of) Viking ships, including Saga Oseberg:

https://webtv.vikingeskibsmuseet.dk/

 

That's where I got that screenshot of Glende's sketchbook.

 

By far the most helpful published resource for this project has been the Saga Oseberg book.

Title: Saga Oseberg: rekonstruktion af et vikingeskib

Author: Thomas Søes Finderup

Publisher: Veterania

 

 

Mr Finderup was the master boat builder for Saga Oseberg, and his book is incredibly detailed and thorough. It's all in Danish but that's nothing Google Translate can't fix.

 

Unfortunately, the book says very little about the frame timbers and there are no drawings of how they were placed. The Viking Ship Museum linked above also has some video lectures by Mr Finderup where he explains how the ship was built, showing lots of reference materials that weren't in the book.

 

 

I've also read every academic paper I can find mentioning the Oseberg Ship by Vibeke Bischoff or Knut Paasche. They both have a lot to say on the subject.

 

Your question about the book Osebergfundet by Brogger and Shetelig gave me the last bit of info I needed to find it. I never thought to include the publication date in my search terms.

 

Five seconds of googling Osebergfundet 1917 gave me the Volume 1 on Google Books:

 

 

Title: Osebergfundet utgit av den norske stat · Volume 1

Authors: Anton Wilhelm Brøgger, Hj Falk, Gabriel Gustafson, Haakon Shetelig

Published: 1917

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Osebergfundet/ylYxAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PR3&printsec=frontcover

 

 

Lastly, Glende's sketchbook was never published. Excerpts from it are available in the sources mentioned above, but the book as a whole does not exist in electronic form. If I recall, it's located in the archives at the Kulturhistorik Museum in Oslo. Last I heard they were closed for COVID-19 but it may be possible to write to them to request digital copies when they reopen. I expect it would be expensive though. They charge a lot to scan previously unscanned documents.

 

 

Did I cover everything? 🤣

 

[KrisWood]

Hi @Binho,

 

You are correct about the 1909 drawing by Glende that I posted earlier. The only difference is that he had the measurements from the excavation in the drawings and notes he took as parts came out of the ground. Yes, some of his measurements were off, but time and again in published materials I see Ms Bischoff and Mr Finderup citing them as the "true" numbers in general even if they're not always correct in specific. For example they used Glende's numbers to calculate how much the wood had shrunk between excavation and the present day.

 

The off axis frames cannot be any way other than off axis because the plank clamps were made before the planks were attached to the hull. The frames must align with the plank clamps or they cannot be sewn to the hull.

 

Edit: Sorry, I forgot that I'd already replied! XD

[KrisWood]

Ok next question....

 

Since I have to do a new keel anyway and my current building jig has... issues... I am designing a new jig.

 

I'd like it to be reversible so I can use the same base board for the initial upside down arrangement while planking and the upright arrangement while doing everything else.

 

Can anyone give examples of building jig designs that might work for this project? I'm searching the MSW forums now and will post examples here as I find them...

[mtaylor]

You might give some thought to something like a Hahn jig.  Cut out the center around the upper part of the hull, notch it for the beams.  When making your frames, add an extension to the top of the beams so the hull is above the board.   Here's two photos of one of my builds using this method.  By cutting out the center around the inside of the hull when doing the board, you have access to the inside.

[KrisWood]

Hi @mtaylor,

 

Thanks for the lovely example! I used that method when I attempted La Diligente in card several years ago. It turned out that ship's frames are far too delicate for card so I abandoned it before getting very far, but the jig itself was solid.

 

My favorite example for a Viking / clinker built hull so far is the one @jack.aubrey used for his Dusek Gokstad:

 

I'm not sure how I would make it reversible though. I'm trying to keep the cost of materials down so the more parts I can reuse the better.

[KrisWood]

Meanwhile, I got new numbers for stem cross sections yesterday, and was finally able to correct the last accuracy problem in my Rhino model. I had previously been using a constant width for the cross sections of the stems, but the actual ship's stems taper as they rise from the keel, then widen again at the top to accommodate the transition between the planks and the figureheads.

 

My new stems match the actual ship a closely as I care to get them.

 

 

I can now fair these into my keel and draw my jig at the correct width.

[Schrader]

Hello.....

 

Having in my mind to have one Viking after having one Egyptian..... Take a look of this picture..... is a recreation of the Viking shipyard....

 

 

You will see how they just put the frames once the ship is started.....The frames are made after all to adjust to the real shape of the clinker hull

[Binho]

@KrisWood Thanks for all those sources! The excavation looks a lot more organized then I thought, I'm going to enjoy going through that report. Sorry to have taken you off on a tangent, I'm really enjoying your process and I think it will be an excellent model! As an archaeologist, I'm just wary of people reading too much in to the product of archaeologists, lol. It looks like Glende at least took careful measurements. My thought was just that since he had to distort the shape of the planks to fit the going hypothesis, if all his measurements were accurate, then everything else would have probably gotten distorted too. I'm excited to see your final build though and how you interpret it all!

[KrisWood]

Hi @Hellmuht Schrader,

 

That's a very nice illustration! It does miss one key point of the Oseberg ship's construction though, and that is the plank clamps used to lash the frames to the planks. Here is a detailed article with lots of photos of the process used in building Saga Oseberg:

 

https://osebergvikingarv.no/osebergskipet/rekonstruksjonen-av-osebergskipet/spanteplassering/

 

Any Viking ship that used plank clamps would have been constructed in the same way. For example the Gokstad ship used the same method. The only difference was that the Gokstad ship used tree roots instead of baleen to lash the frames to the plank clamps.

[KrisWood]

@Binho,

 

No worries about tangents! I have pretty severe ADHD so tangents are kind of my jam. What kind of archaeology do you do? I've always been fascinated by archaeology as a whole, but my brain was built for computers so that's what I do for a living. If only I had more than one life to live!

 

The thing to keep in mind with Glende's reconstruction is that he did two sets of measurements. The ones he took as it came out of the ground were mostly accurate, with some errors of course due to the state of preservation and the inevitable mis-measurements that all humans make. The ones he took from the museum display attempted to reconcile the excavation measurements and are subject to the artistic license taken by Frederick Johannessen when he tried to make it look cool at the expense of historic accuracy. The early 1900s were a different time for archaeology. I have no doubt that were the ship discovered today things would have gone very differently.

 

[KrisWood]

Minor status update while I'm responding to comments here. I've got the inside of all my planks thoroughly mapped out and lining up with my keel. The only thing left to draw is the overlaps between the planks so I can draw new planking bulkheads for my jig. My original jig is going to be recycled for making other things because I didn't take the overlaps into account when I made it, and it's probably horribly warped by now due to sitting so long with nothing reinforcing the false keel.

 

Model boat building turns out to be an art for those who do not mind doing things over again. I am pleased to discover through this process that I do not mind that in the least and sometimes actually enjoy it. Every failure is an opportunity to do it better.

[Schrader]

20 minutes ago, KrisWood said:

Hi @Hellmuht Schrader,

 

That's a very nice illustration! It does miss one key point of the Oseberg ship's construction though, and that is the plank clamps used to lash the frames to the planks. Here is a detailed article with lots of photos of the process used in building Saga Oseberg:

 

https://osebergvikingarv.no/osebergskipet/rekonstruksjonen-av-osebergskipet/spanteplassering/

 

Any Viking ship that used plank clamps would have been constructed in the same way. For example the Gokstad ship used the same method. The only difference was that the Gokstad ship used tree roots instead of baleen to lash the frames to the plank clamps.

 

[KrisWood]

Hi @Hellmuht Schrader,

 

Yes, precisely. The plank clamps are hewn from the plank itself, not attached to the plank. The plank clamps are therefore aligned before the planks are added. The hull is built up plank first before the frames are added. The frames are aligned to the plank clamps. Therefore the intended alignment of the frames must have been known to the builders before making the individual planks, otherwise they would not have known where to put the clamps.

 

They cannot very well have hewn out the clamps with axes after the planks were attached because they would no longer have been flat at that point.

[Schrader]

It is unbelievably.  But for the scale we have to work, that would be “impossible”. But take a look about the frames they are not precise...... they just are made to keep the form and give the hull the strength it needs.

 

this is really valuable information for my project.  I hope you don’t mind if I use it.  As you can see in my Egyptian, I’m trying to replicate the way those ships were built.

 

Thanks a lot

[KrisWood]

@Hellmuht Schrader,

 

As far as I'm concerned, any resources / research I share on MSW is for the benefit of other builders working on similar projects. Please feel free to use anything I share.

 

I'm thinking about trying to find a way to make or at least simulate functional plank clamps. I suspect at this scale they'll tend to snap off easily. We'll see what I'm able to come up with.

 

Edit: I've been pondering making them a bit larger in length and breadth on the plank but keeping the correct height at scale to make them a bit sturdier. The harder part will be figuring out a way to make rough hewn planks in the first place.

 

I would just glue them on but I suspect steaming the planks for bending will just make them pop right off and after bending I'd have to cut them to match the curve of the planks which would be near impossible at this scale.

[KrisWood]

The insides of all strakes are now modeled! Next up, modeling the tiller box thingy on the starboard stern, then on to planking bulkheads and frames.

 

 

[Louie da fly]

Fascinating and illuminating discussion. This is a very worthwhile build to follow, as well as very enjoyable.

[Schrader]

How are you going to solve the bow/stern curves?

 

 

[KrisWood]

@Hellmuht Schrader, My bow/stern curves are already as correct as possible with my current skill level. I'm using Vibeke Bischoff's reconstructed lines from the Saga Oseberg book by Mr Finderup. These are the most correct plans currently in existence and have the bow/stern curves already corrected.

[Louie da fly]

Really enjoying the whole discussion but I have to say I'm also looking forward to the point when you move from the design phase into the actual building process (my coffee's getting cold ).

[KrisWood]

Me too!

 

I'm almost there. I'm running out of parts to design! 😆

[Schrader]

That is what I meant!!!! In the construction process....

I’ve been looking around different ways and still can not see a final solution 

ready to hear ideas.. 

 

[Louie da fly]

Thought you might find this interesting: 

 

[Schrader]

Here one more.....

[KrisWood]

Hi @Hellmuht Schrader,

 

Do you mean the way the planks curve into the bow? The photo of the second strake being attached when Saga Oseberg was built shows how it was done for the Oseberg ship. The flow of the garboard strake defines all the curves of the planks above it. The rabbets for Saga Oseberg were cut to the depth of the plank as each plank was attached. Note the notch cut to just above the second strake where it meets the stem.

 

This is only one method the Vikings used. Others used the method shown in your other images, where the stem was cut with faux planks carved into the stem itself. The planks were then fitted to line up exactly with the faux planks.

 

In both methods, the garboard strake and the curves of the stems determine the shape of the hull. There is no need to worry about how to curve the planks. As long as they are cut to the right shape, and the garboard and stem curves after correct, each plank is simply bent around the one below it.

[Schrader]

I’m just want to be as much attached to a “real” thing. Since we have to be careful with the “appearance” in the scale we work. 
 

your investigation about vikings really surprise me. Thanks for sharing 

[KrisWood]

@Hellmuht Schrader, no problem, sharing is half the fun!

 

By the way, where did you find that photo of Saga Oseberg under construction? I didn't have that photo yet so it'll be very helpful when I get to that part!

 

Thanks,

Kris

[Schrader]

Pinterest. There you will find a ton of those pictures

 

https://pin.it/6wKpgJm

 

https://pin.it/519WOc6

[Binho]

I’m a Roman archaeologist by training, but as a commercial archaeologist I work on local Southern California archaeology - prehistory, and historic. It’s all pretty interesting even if it’s not why I studied archaeology originally, but life takes us in unpredictable directions sometimes

 

In terms of stem/stern just wanted to share an interesting thing I learned from the Skuldelev excavation report. The norse were not a cultural monolith, and it appears that the Norwegian stem/stern design (Gokstad, Oseberg, and Skuldelev 1) may have been different from the Danish/Irish way. The Norwegians appear to not have used the distinctive stepped stem known from Skuldeled 2, 3, 5, and some Irish bog finds. They seem to have used a more rounded stem/stern with a rabbet which the planks attached to directly, like in Oseberg, Gokstad, Skuldelev 1, and some isolated Norwegian finds. 

Interestingly, the Viking Ship Museum’s first reconstruction of Skuldelev 6 (Norwegian built fishing vessel) used a ‘Danish’ style stem/stern design. But more recently, since they noticed the possible cultural difference, they reconstructed it again with a more ‘Norwegian’ style, more similar in profile to Skuldelev 1:

 

Kraka Fyr, original Skuldelev 6 reconstruction

Skjoldungen, the new interpretation.

 

Also shows how much archaeological finds can be open to interpretation sometimes!

 

[KrisWood]

@Binho,

 

That's very interesting! I didn't know about the new Skuldelev 1 reconstruction. In my opinion, after a year of poring over all publicly available research material I could find on Viking ships, the newer one looks a LOT more accurate to me given the hull shape in relation to the flow of the planks. The Danish stem gave the original reconstruction a very low profile and a bit of a stretched look. I'd wondered before how it could have possibly been an effective ship with such proportions. The newer one looks like it has a rounder hull that could handle much rougher seas.