Cutty Sark build question

[Bill97]

Looking for help from anyone familiar with building the Cutty Sark. I am building the Revell 1/96 but I think any build would provide an answer to my question. Read everything I can find on MSW but at a loss. 
 

I am trying to rig the two lifeboats to the divots. Revell instructions show vertical lines. Other instructions and actual photos show an X pattern. But nothing explains what to actually do. Anyone have an idea?

 

 

[popeye2sea]

What is happening here is that the boats are being stored on skids so that the falls that would be used to hoist them out are temporarily hooked onto the davits. The lower blocks normally have a hook on the block that hooks into a ring on the boat for lowering into the water.  You can rig the falls either up and down on the davits or diagonally across to the opposite davit.  Either way they are not actually doing anything with respect to the boats when they are on the boat skids. The hauling end of the falls sometimes belay to a cleat on the davit.

 

That extra bit that appears to go to the boat (labelled B?) in the first photo is totally wrong and should not be rigged.  What would actually be holding the boats down to the skid are two ropes called gripes, which would be attached to the skids on either side of the boat and pass over the boat holding it firmly down. 

 

Regards,

[Jim Lad]

Your first image is vaguely correct, but the lower block should be attached to a hook in the lifeboat with the running end of the fall secured to a cleat on the davit.

 

John

[Bill97]

Thank you popeye2sea!  Now it makes sense. Thank you as well John. This site continues to be a wealth of knowledge and help to model ship builders with limited knowledge like myself! I am even learning nautical terminology!  Had no idea the lines used to lower the lifeboat were called Falls. So Popeye2sea, if I understand you correctly the Falls are simply rigged either up and down or crisscrossed on the davits for safe keeping (lack of a better word) until needed to lower life boats. They are not actually attached to the lifeboats at this point, but to the other cleat on the davit? And John you are saying the same thing only having the falls attached to the life boats as if about to be lowered or returning to the skids?  Looking at the design of the davits, I am curious just how they worked?  Did they pivot in some way allowing the life boats to be extended out over the side of the ship?  Just trying to picture how they would have worked.  With the falls attached to the life boats it seems that no matter how the davits were rotated the lifeboat would hit one or the other and not be able to extend over the side. 
 

Since you were so very helpful I wonder if I may trouble you with one other question? On the back of the ship the instructions show attaching an eyebolt to the top of the rudder and two additional eye bolts on each side. Then either rigging rope or chain (I have seen in some of my research) from the side eye bolts to the rudder eyebolt. When I have done this it really looks odd and does not appear as if it would have accomplished anything in reality. What am I to do here?  Instructions are limited at best. 

[popeye2sea]

To operate davits like these you would hook the falls to the boats and hoist them up so that they are suspended.  You then rotate the davits in towards each other.  One davit leading the other so that one end of the boat is able to pass between the davits followed by the other end as the second davit is rotated.  Once the boat has passed between the davits you can square them up again with the boat hanging parallel to the hull above the water.  Lower away and unhook the falls when the boat swims.

 

The chain attached to the rudder is there for steering emergencies.  In the event that the steering gear is disabled you can rig tackles to the end of the chains and run them inboard in order to operate the rudder.

 

Regards,

[Bill97]

Thanks popeye. Very interesting. Looking at the davits I did not consider having the life boat pass through them one end first then the other. I was trying to figure out how it could be done with life boat parallel to ship. Whoever designed it that was genius. So for the chain on the rudder it is OK to just attach the ends of the chain to the eye bolts on each side or should I run them inboard somewhere and attach them to something?

[popeye2sea]

Leave the ends stoppered or lashed to the eyebolts.  The tackles would only be rigged if needed in an emergency.

 

Regards,

[Bill97]

Thanks Popeye. You have been extremely kind and helpful. Appreciate your information and advice. 

[Bill97]

Ok anybody that can supply some advice. I have reached the point on my Cutty Sark where I start rigging for sails. When I built the Revell USS Constitution the instructions went two different directions. One way of rigging if I was adding sails, and another way of rigging if not adding sails. The instructions for the Cutty Sark are not that way. The only reference to any difference in assembly is position of yards on the mast. Up higher for sails, lower for without. I have several pages of rigging instructions remaining. Some rigging appears as if it would not be possible if sails were on the masts but nothing instructs otherwise. I uploaded the remaining pages. Obviously the ones showing sails is with, but do any of the steps pertain to a without sail assembly?

[popeye2sea]

All of the plan sheets you show are with sails.  Views number 100 - 103 show the run of the braces for the yards and the sails are omitted for clarity but the yards are still shown in their fully hoisted positions.

 

If you want to show the model without sails you can omit some of the rigging from plan views 96 - 99 and all of view 104. and lower the yards.

 

Note that the lower yard and the lower topsail yards are fixed in position and do not lower.  Also note that on views 98 and 99 the upper topsail yard down hauls numbered 22, 38 ?, 71, 87, 129, and 141 are still required even without sails.

You may choose to rig all of the lines, anyway, because they would all still be there even without the sails.  They would just be toggled onto their appropriate points.

 

BTW, on view 99 the inset views A and B do not make any sense whatsoever.  They are attempting to show the upper topsail sheet and downhaul.  The upper topsail sheet starts at the clew (the lower corner) of the sail reeves down through the inner sheave at the lower topsail yardarm then through the block on the yard and belays in the top (as shown in plan view B).  On your plan these lines have no number.

The downhaul starts at the yard arm of the lower topsail  (as in plan view A) runs up to a block at the upper topsail yard arm thence to the leading block  further inboard and then down to the deck.  (See line numbers above).

 

Are you planning to go with or without sails?

 

Clipper ships have some of the most complex rigs possible.  Don't hesitate to ask if you need more help with this.

 

Regards,

[Bill97]

Thanks popeye. Yes I plan to go with sails. In fact I am going to try my hand at making my own sails for the first time. Going to practice a few different methods to see which I can do convincingly before I put them on the ship. I also printed out the old version of the instructions from years ago that Arctic37 posted. They are a big help. Below is I think the same page you were saying makes no sense in the instructions. As far as complicated rigging I think you are correct. I have my USS Constitution setting up high and when I walk by it I think it’s rigging was tough. This is a whole new level!

[mtaylor]

Bill,

There's a good topic going on here for rigging that might help also:    

 

[Bill97]

mtaylor this is kind of funny. That is a topic I started. I am Bill97.  I have really enjoyed the comments and found them very helpful  🙂

[mtaylor]

I'll just do a facepalm and go stand in the corner....  

[popeye2sea]

Not only is the Cutty Sark rig complicated but the rigging instructions provided for the Revell kit are way over simplified.  There is a lot more that you can add.  And even more complexities to the lines they chose to include.  For instance on the upper topsail sheets I talked about above there is a two fold tackle employed before it belays in the top.  Also, they are not showing any halyards or lifts.  Unless they are included on another page.

 

Regards,

[Bill97]

Popeyes I have the old assembly instructions that Arctic37 shared. I copied one of the pages above in our discussion. I am going to compare the rest of the pages with the newer instructions that came with the kit to see what else may be different. 

[Bill97]

Ok MSW friends I have another question on my Cutty Sark build. Simply because of the space where I plan to put the shelf to display the ship when complete, and the case I intend to make for it, I am limited on the desired width of the final build. As a result I am going to leave the 8 studding sails off. The 4 on the foremast and the 4 on the main mast. With that as my plan I am curious about the Upper and Lower Yard Studding Booms. For authenticity do I need to mount them inboard on the yards as if without sails or can (should) I just remove them from the yards?  I am rigging the ship with sails except for studding sails. 

[mtaylor]

Generally speaking, the studding booms were moved inboard on the yard.  You might look at some of the builds in kit (wood) and also Google is your friend also.  Google for Cutty Sark and add various words such as yards, studding booms, and see what's there.  

[Bill97]

Thanks mtaylor.  I just made a command decision today and did just that. 

[keelhauled]

Hi Bill, 

 

Mark's right about the sudding sail booms.  they were inboard when not in use.  Also, note that depending upon the direction and strength of the wind, the cutty wouldn't have had her spanker, mizzen, and spencer rigged.  You can see photos where the wind is coming from astern or rear quarters and she is rigged in this manner.  These sails would rob the wind from the main and fore.  In fact, often the main wouldn't be rigged as well.   Just  some thoughts..

 

best

marc

[popeye2sea]

You can also save some width by bracing the yards around sharp and showing her close hauled on a port or starboard tack. Doing so may allow at least some stun'sl's.

 

Regards,

[Bill97]

Thanks marc and popeye,  I already have the yards set (glued) at about 25 degrees so I can’t really change that. I had the booms previously set in the outboard position since I originally planned to rig those sails. Now that I am going to leave the studding sails off I removed the booms today. I will reset them inboard, or just leave them off all together. Marc I will need to check out what you are saying about the spanker, mizzen, and spencer. Interesting. I have the sails I made, except for the bottom (course sail) mounted on the foremast. My plan is/was to furl the bottom sails on all three mast to add a little visual interest and improve viewing of the deck area. 

[Bill97]

Here is an interesting question maybe someone knows the answer too. I have tried Google and other sources but can’t find a good answer.  
 

What uniform did the crewman on the Cutty Sark wear?  I enjoy painting the little crewman characters that come with the kits. Give me a fine tip brush and lighted magnification lens and I am good to go for a few hours. When I recently built the USS Constitution  I was able to research military uniforms (Navy and Marine) for the area and easily found color pictures I could refer to. I know the Cutty Sark was a civilian ship with a crew of around 25-30 civilian crewman. Need color references if anyone has an idea. 

[Jim Lad]

Bill, merchant seamen didn't wear uniform.  The crew would have worn ordinary working clothes of the day.  The Officers would (probably) have worn standard blue serge uniform jacket and trousers.

 

John

[Bill97]

Thanks John. Will research ordinary working clothes of the day and the blue serge uniform jacket. 
 

Bill

[Jim Lad]

Bill a few photos off the web of sailing ship crew members that might give you a starting point.

 

John

 

 

[Bill97]

Great John. Just general working clothes for people who work outdoors. Probably just basic colors like black, brown, etc. Nothing colorful like military uniforms. 

[Bill97]

Ok my model building friends. I have one last question as I am bring my Cutty Sark to the finish. As you can see in the photo I attached I partially furled the bottom sail on each of the mast and the spencer sail. I did this, even though it may not be historically accurate, so that detail on the deck will be more visible. I want to finalize all the sails by also partially furling the spanker sail on the back. My question involves the spanker boom. Since the spanker sail is attached to the spanker boom do I just move it further up the mizzenmast and stay in line with the bottom of the sail, or do I not attach the sail to the boom?  There is a connection point at the bottom of the mast for the spanker boom so I am not sure the right way to accomplish this. 

[Jim Lad]

Bill,

The spanker boom always remains fixed to its gooseneck at the mast.  I believe the Cutty Sark had a standing gaff - ie. it is fixed to the mast by a gooseneck and supported by a span.  If this is the case, the spanker was brailed in to the mast.  There are outhauls and inhauls at both the boom and gaff and three (probably) brails up the after end of the sail which lead in to the mast and then down to pins at the foot of the mast.  When the sail was furled it was brought in to the mast rather than down to the boom.  I'm afraid I can't lay my hands on a photo of a furled spanker at the moment, but I'm sure you get the idea.

 

John

[Bill97]

Thanks John. That helps a lot.