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How to attach deadeyes to channels in the 16th century?


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For my Pelican project I have reached the stage where the deadeyes are attached to the channels.


My problem is now how to attach these deadeyes to the channels.

Judging by various drawings these are not attached at all (see drawing)

 

I think the masts will probably have to be placed first and then the chain, the 2 deadeyes and the schroud.
A complicated method. Anyone have any suggestions how I do this best?

 

 

 

image.png.68fd2397d1e84ee16c584536c47d7d14.png

Regards, Patrick

 

Finished :  Soleil Royal Heller 1/100   Wasa Billing Boats   Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch)   Pelican / Golden Hind  1/45 scratch

Current build :  Mary Rose 1/50 scratch

Gallery Revell Bounty  Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch

To do Prins Willem Corel, Le Tonnant Corel, Yacht d'Oro Corel, Thermopylae Sergal 

 

Shore leave,  non ship models build logs :  

ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72    Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72   Autoblinda AB40 1/72   122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72   10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e)  Centurion Mk.1 conversion   M29 Weasel 1/72     SAM6 1/72    T26 Finland  T26 TN 1/72  Autoprotetto S37 1/72     Opel Blitz buses 1/72  Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72   Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72    

Modern Russian vehicles 1/72

 

Si vis pacem, para bellum

 
 
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The channels simply space the shroud out away from the ship's side. The strap or chain only attaches to the ship's side on the channel wale below. Usually there was a groove in the edge of the channel to prevent sideways movement.

Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series  http://trafalgar.tv

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With the strap/chains in the notch, a small dab of CA or epoxy will hold them in place.  Note that some vessels also had a thin wood strip on the edge to keep the strap/chains in place in addition to the notch.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

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On 7/7/2020 at 12:41 PM, druxey said:

The channels simply space the shroud out away from the ship's side. The strap or chain only attaches to the ship's side on the channel wale below. Usually there was a groove in the edge of the channel to prevent sideways movement.

 

19 hours ago, mtaylor said:

With the strap/chains in the notch, a small dab of CA or epoxy will hold them in place.  Note that some vessels also had a thin wood strip on the edge to keep the strap/chains in place in addition to the notch.

 

Thanks for the advice.

I think this will be the solution to my problem :


There must indeed be grooves in the channels. So that the schrouds cannot move.

And. 

The thin wood strip will be applied temporarily. This way the deeadeyes stay in place during installation
This strip will then be removed later when the shrouds are completely ready

Regards, Patrick

 

Finished :  Soleil Royal Heller 1/100   Wasa Billing Boats   Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch)   Pelican / Golden Hind  1/45 scratch

Current build :  Mary Rose 1/50 scratch

Gallery Revell Bounty  Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch

To do Prins Willem Corel, Le Tonnant Corel, Yacht d'Oro Corel, Thermopylae Sergal 

 

Shore leave,  non ship models build logs :  

ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72    Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72   Autoblinda AB40 1/72   122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72   10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e)  Centurion Mk.1 conversion   M29 Weasel 1/72     SAM6 1/72    T26 Finland  T26 TN 1/72  Autoprotetto S37 1/72     Opel Blitz buses 1/72  Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72   Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72    

Modern Russian vehicles 1/72

 

Si vis pacem, para bellum

 
 
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Patrick

There is no need to remove the strip from the channel once the deadeyes are installed.  Below are contemporary models from the 17th and 18th centuries, all of which have the molding across the edge of the channel.   I do not believe these were ever removed once in place unless a deadeye or the strip itself had to be replaced.

Allan

 

360522012_4thRate60Gun1705.jpg.8d94a33c7473dd4ff30c1b7e52d92ab1.jpg

 1542030097_36gun.thumb.jpg.c034b0ea9226c03201214e5852bc27c0.jpg816893402_Grafton1679.jpg.c6722e587850bb0ea871b33329e687a2.jpg772030545_Minerva1780.jpg.9bf62844bb978c2aabd36be9111577db.jpg

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Thanks  Allen,
16th century channels looks a bit confusing. With or without a strip? There is little correct info.
Some pictures from channels without the strip.

20200709_191310.thumb.jpg.c962bceddaffa8b23114312159ebc0fc.jpg20200709_191324.thumb.jpg.c4e09ce9a4bd90d5f865796309eb5860.jpg

 

 

Regards, Patrick

 

Finished :  Soleil Royal Heller 1/100   Wasa Billing Boats   Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch)   Pelican / Golden Hind  1/45 scratch

Current build :  Mary Rose 1/50 scratch

Gallery Revell Bounty  Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch

To do Prins Willem Corel, Le Tonnant Corel, Yacht d'Oro Corel, Thermopylae Sergal 

 

Shore leave,  non ship models build logs :  

ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72    Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72   Autoblinda AB40 1/72   122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72   10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e)  Centurion Mk.1 conversion   M29 Weasel 1/72     SAM6 1/72    T26 Finland  T26 TN 1/72  Autoprotetto S37 1/72     Opel Blitz buses 1/72  Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72   Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72    

Modern Russian vehicles 1/72

 

Si vis pacem, para bellum

 
 
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Patrick,

My apologies, I was not thinking that far back. 17th century is as far back as I had photos of models so at a loss regarding 16th century.   Looking at modern models including the following built by James Lees and Philip Wride in 1988 of a galleon of circa 1588  it SEEMS to not have battens, at least for the foremast.  I could not find a higher res photo so not 100% sure on this model.  The following contemporary drawing   appears to be without the batten as well.  

 

Allan

 

755438509_galleon2JamesLeesPhilipWride2.jpg.014b399609f18f26b50f53a75ad9dffb.jpg1129964979_galleon3.thumb.jpg.89d43db032c96748aed58ee64b834562.jpg

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

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Please, no apologies. Thanks for the constructive comments 👍.

This is a very nice model.
Have also seen pictures of it. And it was partly the inspiration for the color scheme on my Pelican

Regards, Patrick

 

Finished :  Soleil Royal Heller 1/100   Wasa Billing Boats   Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch)   Pelican / Golden Hind  1/45 scratch

Current build :  Mary Rose 1/50 scratch

Gallery Revell Bounty  Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch

To do Prins Willem Corel, Le Tonnant Corel, Yacht d'Oro Corel, Thermopylae Sergal 

 

Shore leave,  non ship models build logs :  

ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72    Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72   Autoblinda AB40 1/72   122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72   10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e)  Centurion Mk.1 conversion   M29 Weasel 1/72     SAM6 1/72    T26 Finland  T26 TN 1/72  Autoprotetto S37 1/72     Opel Blitz buses 1/72  Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72   Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72    

Modern Russian vehicles 1/72

 

Si vis pacem, para bellum

 
 
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Setting aside the reliability of a particular contemporary artist as to detail,  I vote that there were two "rules".

 

1.  The chains or straps holding the deadeye would continue the exact line/ angle of the shroud it anchors.  ( So the mast first and then, if not the shroud, then a stand in for it to determine the angle. )  ( Wait a tick!  Altering the rake of the mast by a new captain must have fudged that rule. )

 

2.  If there was any danger of a shroud chaffing against the side of the ship,  there would have been a channel.   ( Ignoring the unnecessary ware on the shroud if there was chaffing, I just was imagining the resulting horror, if a crewman had a limb get between a too close shroud and the side of the ship when wind and sea conditions were violently active. ) 

 

NRG member 45 years

 

Current:  

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HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing

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The width of the channels and the exact position of the deadeyes - schrouds has already been tested. That's not going to be the problem anymore.

 

IMG_20190606_191749.thumb.jpg.914b3462947e98bac1562304e705d258.jpg

IMG_20200426_095020.thumb.jpg.c617bb517049259bac72e9eff8ff7705.jpg


For now I make the deadeyes first. Then probably the masts. The chains holding the deadeyes will all have different lengths.
Will be fun ;)

20200711_152300.thumb.jpg.e0cf25b0fb0e8227865d5a9926efe8d5.jpg

Regards, Patrick

 

Finished :  Soleil Royal Heller 1/100   Wasa Billing Boats   Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch)   Pelican / Golden Hind  1/45 scratch

Current build :  Mary Rose 1/50 scratch

Gallery Revell Bounty  Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch

To do Prins Willem Corel, Le Tonnant Corel, Yacht d'Oro Corel, Thermopylae Sergal 

 

Shore leave,  non ship models build logs :  

ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72    Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72   Autoblinda AB40 1/72   122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72   10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e)  Centurion Mk.1 conversion   M29 Weasel 1/72     SAM6 1/72    T26 Finland  T26 TN 1/72  Autoprotetto S37 1/72     Opel Blitz buses 1/72  Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72   Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72    

Modern Russian vehicles 1/72

 

Si vis pacem, para bellum

 
 
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