Script Posted July 31, 2013 Author #31 Posted July 31, 2013 Sjors, Keith, Anja, Wayne, Thanks for finding my build again. It's been a while. Sjors, Stale popcorn? I thought you would have cleaned it up a month ago....... And thanks for the attaboy on the stagecoach...it was fun to build.... Keith, It did turn out more brown than I expected....it isn't a pic coloration issue....Oh well..... We have been doing a major remodel.....new bathroom, new floors, new carpet, paint and ---believe it or not---new exterior. Down in this part of Florida there are a lot of "Tuscan" architecture homes. Claire wanted something more Caribbean so we are modifying a Tuscan home to look Caribbean... (If She's happy, I'm happy.....) Anja, Maybe you can help find the stagecoach....I know where it is and also have a Picasa album but have not been able to link either one to my signature...any suggestions? The Stagecoach is at http://www.woodworkforums.com in the forums-general-toy making-scale modeling section . Once there it is now about halfway down the first page. My name there is Script just like here and the coach is Amati/Victory models, etc., etc. Wayne, Safe travels! If you find the coach, you will see the rifles by the payroll chest....Yes, the stagecoach is armed, unlike the private yacht I'm working on! Cheers, Jim Quote Completed Robert E Lee, Misisssippi riverboat Completed, HMS Victory Bow Section Completed, Wells Fargo Stagecoach...Picasa album.... Completed, Lackawanna tugboat converted to private yacht... Completed: Sopwith Camel, 1:16 Scale, Model Airways...at another location... Completed: 1961 Ferrari F-1 Sharknose Completed: (sorta) OcCre BR-18 Locomotive Completed: 1/35 Pz.KPfw.III Completed: Allerton Steam Pumper circa 1869
Script Posted August 1, 2013 Author #32 Posted August 1, 2013 A bit more progress. I used the paper bag method to create a template to cut the deck planking to size... In addition, I painted the timberheads and the stack bases. My intention is to leave the stacks brass. Before installation, I'll polish them and then put a coat of clear protective finish to stop any tarnish. Got to be shiny for the coal baron. The kit also provides a bunch of photo etch brass doors. Not sure how to frame and install them but that comes later anyway..... :mellow: Cheers, Jim Quote Completed Robert E Lee, Misisssippi riverboat Completed, HMS Victory Bow Section Completed, Wells Fargo Stagecoach...Picasa album.... Completed, Lackawanna tugboat converted to private yacht... Completed: Sopwith Camel, 1:16 Scale, Model Airways...at another location... Completed: 1961 Ferrari F-1 Sharknose Completed: (sorta) OcCre BR-18 Locomotive Completed: 1/35 Pz.KPfw.III Completed: Allerton Steam Pumper circa 1869
Anja Posted August 1, 2013 #33 Posted August 1, 2013 Hello Jim, I will send you a PM about your stagecoach. Anja Quote Those we loved but lost are no longer where they were, but are always where we are. In the gallery: Albatros 1840 - Constructo
Script Posted August 1, 2013 Author #34 Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) Try this link to see my stagecoach album.....good luck... https://plus.google.com/116198258808767292259/posts/h4So75DNufX Edited August 1, 2013 by Script Anja, augie and riverboat 3 Quote Completed Robert E Lee, Misisssippi riverboat Completed, HMS Victory Bow Section Completed, Wells Fargo Stagecoach...Picasa album.... Completed, Lackawanna tugboat converted to private yacht... Completed: Sopwith Camel, 1:16 Scale, Model Airways...at another location... Completed: 1961 Ferrari F-1 Sharknose Completed: (sorta) OcCre BR-18 Locomotive Completed: 1/35 Pz.KPfw.III Completed: Allerton Steam Pumper circa 1869
trippwj Posted August 1, 2013 #35 Posted August 1, 2013 Thanks, Jim. I just took a brief tour - she's a beauty! Quote WayneNeither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.Epictetus
themadchemist Posted August 1, 2013 #36 Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) Wow, nice work on the Wells Fargo, I see the rifles but no one to shoot them. Love the tufting on the seats, Beautiful detail work thoughout. Edited August 1, 2013 by themadchemist Quote
Script Posted August 2, 2013 Author #37 Posted August 2, 2013 Thanks Wayne, Keith, FYI, the guards are just off the edge of the pictures having donuts and coffee so don't try anything! After installing the timberheads it was decided they should be white...less obtrusive and a cleaner look for a pleasure boat...... Started building the all brass pilot house and cutting the planking for the cabins. The cabin doors are also brass. I'm not sure how to mount them....flush to the wall or framed out to be flush with the planking........ Jim tarbrush 1 Quote Completed Robert E Lee, Misisssippi riverboat Completed, HMS Victory Bow Section Completed, Wells Fargo Stagecoach...Picasa album.... Completed, Lackawanna tugboat converted to private yacht... Completed: Sopwith Camel, 1:16 Scale, Model Airways...at another location... Completed: 1961 Ferrari F-1 Sharknose Completed: (sorta) OcCre BR-18 Locomotive Completed: 1/35 Pz.KPfw.III Completed: Allerton Steam Pumper circa 1869
mischief Posted August 2, 2013 #38 Posted August 2, 2013 Andy, Keith, Wayne....thanks for the comments..... ....I think....... Sure, throw the peanut shells on the floor and the gnome can clean 'em up..... So who is the gnome and how do they know when to start sweeping? Jim One does Not clean the peanut shells from the floor,that is how Florida Crackers oil the wood floors. Respectully submited from NW Florida as a public service annunciation. Quote
Script Posted August 16, 2013 Author #39 Posted August 16, 2013 Whenever there is an opportunity I'm still working on my yacht...... Our home remodeling continues to drag....our expected move in date of yesterday is now about Sept. 15th...... And the list of 'Jim, please take care of this ' has expanded...... Oh, well......it is all still fun! Back to the ship.....Installed the running gear and continue to work on the main deck cabin parts. The Admiral has decided to participate in color selection and design as well as door placement so I have to set up review meetings to meet her schedule. (and I'm talking about the ship design....she's about finished with all the house remod stuff..... .) So here are a few in-process pics. Final door placement and other color selection TBD...... Cheers, Jim trippwj, mtaylor and Anja 3 Quote Completed Robert E Lee, Misisssippi riverboat Completed, HMS Victory Bow Section Completed, Wells Fargo Stagecoach...Picasa album.... Completed, Lackawanna tugboat converted to private yacht... Completed: Sopwith Camel, 1:16 Scale, Model Airways...at another location... Completed: 1961 Ferrari F-1 Sharknose Completed: (sorta) OcCre BR-18 Locomotive Completed: 1/35 Pz.KPfw.III Completed: Allerton Steam Pumper circa 1869
mobbsie Posted August 17, 2013 #40 Posted August 17, 2013 Just found you again Jim and I must she's looking very impressive, I love your finish on the hull, nice clean lines. I'll drop in again if you've no objections. Keep it up mate. mobbsie Quote mobbsie All mistakes are deliberate ( me ) Current Build:- HMS Schooner Pickle Completed Builds :- Panart 1/16 Armed Launch / Pinnace ( Completed ), Granado Cross Section 1/48 Harwich Bawley, Restoration, Thames Barge Edme, Repair / Restoration, Will Everard 1/67 Billings HMS Agamemnon 1781 - 1/64 Caldercraft Kit, HM Brig Badger, HM Bomb Vessel Granado, Thames Steam Launch Louise, Thames Barge Edme, Viking Dragon Boat Next Build :-
Sjors Posted August 17, 2013 #41 Posted August 17, 2013 Hi Jim, I just follow Mobbsie……. She has smooth lines and a beautiful finishing touch on the hull ! It looks fabulous ! Quote Currend builds: USS Constitution by Sjors - Model Shipways - Scale 1:76 HMS Victory by Sjors - Jotika - Scale 1:72 On hold: VOC Reconnaisance yacht Duyfken by Sjors - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 Finished builds: HMS Snake (1797) by Sjors - Caldercraft - Scale 1:64 Nuestra Señora del Pilar by Sjors & Anja - OcCre - Scale 1:64 H.M. Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 by Sjors - Vanguard Models - Scale 1:64 HMS Agamemnon by Sjors - Caldercraft / Jotika - 1:64 San Ildefonso - OcCre Le Mirage - Corel Smit Rotterdam (sea tug) - Billing Boats - 1:75 Sovereign of the seas - De Agostini Spirit of Mississippi - OcCre Santissima Trinidad - OcCre Corsair - OcCre
Script Posted August 17, 2013 Author #42 Posted August 17, 2013 Mobbsie, Thanks for stopping by (and bringing Sjors along ) It seems that not many folks are interested in vessels without ratlines so it is nice to have you drop in. Sjors, Glad you have Mobbsie to show you the way. I appreciate your stopping by! Cheers, Jim Quote Completed Robert E Lee, Misisssippi riverboat Completed, HMS Victory Bow Section Completed, Wells Fargo Stagecoach...Picasa album.... Completed, Lackawanna tugboat converted to private yacht... Completed: Sopwith Camel, 1:16 Scale, Model Airways...at another location... Completed: 1961 Ferrari F-1 Sharknose Completed: (sorta) OcCre BR-18 Locomotive Completed: 1/35 Pz.KPfw.III Completed: Allerton Steam Pumper circa 1869
Sjors Posted August 18, 2013 #43 Posted August 18, 2013 Hi Jim, I think you have to see it this way. It;s not because there are no ratlines on it but the ship is unknown. When you take a ship that is build also by others, people want to come quicker. But it has nothing to with you I'll be dropping in ! trippwj and Script 2 Quote Currend builds: USS Constitution by Sjors - Model Shipways - Scale 1:76 HMS Victory by Sjors - Jotika - Scale 1:72 On hold: VOC Reconnaisance yacht Duyfken by Sjors - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 Finished builds: HMS Snake (1797) by Sjors - Caldercraft - Scale 1:64 Nuestra Señora del Pilar by Sjors & Anja - OcCre - Scale 1:64 H.M. Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 by Sjors - Vanguard Models - Scale 1:64 HMS Agamemnon by Sjors - Caldercraft / Jotika - 1:64 San Ildefonso - OcCre Le Mirage - Corel Smit Rotterdam (sea tug) - Billing Boats - 1:75 Sovereign of the seas - De Agostini Spirit of Mississippi - OcCre Santissima Trinidad - OcCre Corsair - OcCre
Script Posted August 18, 2013 Author #44 Posted August 18, 2013 Hi Jim, I think you have to see it this way. It;s not because there are no ratlines on it but the ship is unknown. When you take a ship that is build also by others, people want to come quicker. But it has nothing to with you I'll be dropping in ! Sjors, Thanks, interesting thought. Personally I get curious when I see something different.....evidently that is a minority position. I will say that the degree of difficulty for this vessel is much lower than the old sailing ships and that could also be one of the reasons.... Anyway, glad you'll keep dropping in and commenting! Cheers, Jim Sjors 1 Quote Completed Robert E Lee, Misisssippi riverboat Completed, HMS Victory Bow Section Completed, Wells Fargo Stagecoach...Picasa album.... Completed, Lackawanna tugboat converted to private yacht... Completed: Sopwith Camel, 1:16 Scale, Model Airways...at another location... Completed: 1961 Ferrari F-1 Sharknose Completed: (sorta) OcCre BR-18 Locomotive Completed: 1/35 Pz.KPfw.III Completed: Allerton Steam Pumper circa 1869
mtaylor Posted August 18, 2013 #45 Posted August 18, 2013 Hi Jim, I'm a fan of the "little known" ships. Your Lacawanna is looking great and I love that finish on the hull. Sjors, Script and augie 3 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
trippwj Posted August 19, 2013 #46 Posted August 19, 2013 Ahoy, Jim. Nice work on the hull - that finish is wicked nice! Good luck on the home re-mod...someday that, too, will be finished! Awaiting, but not holding my breath, the color decisions on the Lackawanna! Script 1 Quote WayneNeither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.Epictetus
riverboat Posted August 19, 2013 #47 Posted August 19, 2013 just ketch'n up Jim...... looks great, love the finish you gave the hull........ let me ask you, whose your mentor? Sjors or Popeye? Either ones a good choice!! Frank Sjors and Script 2 Quote completed build: Delta River Co. Riverboat HMAT SUPPLY USRC "ALERT" in progress: Red Dragon (Chinese junk)
Script Posted August 19, 2013 Author #48 Posted August 19, 2013 Mark, Thanks for stopping by. I appreciate your interest. Wayne, Thanks. I'll try not to hold my breath waiting for the color decisions either... :P You have evidently remodeled and left the Admiral in charge of such things as well Frank, Thanks. I kind of listen to just about anyone........ but I will admit that Sjors and popeye are "special" Cheers, Jim Quote Completed Robert E Lee, Misisssippi riverboat Completed, HMS Victory Bow Section Completed, Wells Fargo Stagecoach...Picasa album.... Completed, Lackawanna tugboat converted to private yacht... Completed: Sopwith Camel, 1:16 Scale, Model Airways...at another location... Completed: 1961 Ferrari F-1 Sharknose Completed: (sorta) OcCre BR-18 Locomotive Completed: 1/35 Pz.KPfw.III Completed: Allerton Steam Pumper circa 1869
Script Posted August 19, 2013 Author #49 Posted August 19, 2013 I have been working on the model.... These pics are the main deck.....there are six guest cabins and the master suite on this deck. Below the main are an exercise room, pool and snooker tables, wine cellar and an aging room for casks of scotch and bourbon.....as well as the galley and crews quarters. Still awaiting decisions from the designer on colors for various and sundry deck fittings and fixtures...... :mellow: Cheers, Jim augie, mtaylor and avsjerome2003 3 Quote Completed Robert E Lee, Misisssippi riverboat Completed, HMS Victory Bow Section Completed, Wells Fargo Stagecoach...Picasa album.... Completed, Lackawanna tugboat converted to private yacht... Completed: Sopwith Camel, 1:16 Scale, Model Airways...at another location... Completed: 1961 Ferrari F-1 Sharknose Completed: (sorta) OcCre BR-18 Locomotive Completed: 1/35 Pz.KPfw.III Completed: Allerton Steam Pumper circa 1869
Sjors Posted August 20, 2013 #50 Posted August 20, 2013 Hi Jim, That looks great ! Only the two lightbulbs sockets on the deck….is that for light? When you put them on, there is light for the hole workshop ! Script 1 Quote Currend builds: USS Constitution by Sjors - Model Shipways - Scale 1:76 HMS Victory by Sjors - Jotika - Scale 1:72 On hold: VOC Reconnaisance yacht Duyfken by Sjors - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 Finished builds: HMS Snake (1797) by Sjors - Caldercraft - Scale 1:64 Nuestra Señora del Pilar by Sjors & Anja - OcCre - Scale 1:64 H.M. Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 by Sjors - Vanguard Models - Scale 1:64 HMS Agamemnon by Sjors - Caldercraft / Jotika - 1:64 San Ildefonso - OcCre Le Mirage - Corel Smit Rotterdam (sea tug) - Billing Boats - 1:75 Sovereign of the seas - De Agostini Spirit of Mississippi - OcCre Santissima Trinidad - OcCre Corsair - OcCre
Script Posted August 20, 2013 Author #51 Posted August 20, 2013 Hi Jim, That looks great ! Only the two lightbulbs sockets on the deck….is that for light? When you put them on, there is light for the hole workshop ! Sjors, Thanks! Those stack bases are just there for reference........... Earlier they were painted black....now white......and now the designer wants to see how they'd look in green.... But you give me an idea.....maybe instead of the stacks, I can just put a green Christmas bulb in each one...what do you think??? Jim mtaylor, Sjors, trippwj and 1 other 4 Quote Completed Robert E Lee, Misisssippi riverboat Completed, HMS Victory Bow Section Completed, Wells Fargo Stagecoach...Picasa album.... Completed, Lackawanna tugboat converted to private yacht... Completed: Sopwith Camel, 1:16 Scale, Model Airways...at another location... Completed: 1961 Ferrari F-1 Sharknose Completed: (sorta) OcCre BR-18 Locomotive Completed: 1/35 Pz.KPfw.III Completed: Allerton Steam Pumper circa 1869
trippwj Posted August 20, 2013 #52 Posted August 20, 2013 Sjors, Thanks! Those stack bases are just there for reference........... Earlier they were painted black....now white......and now the designer wants to see how they'd look in green.... But you give me an idea.....maybe instead of the stacks, I can just put a green Christmas bulb in each one...what do you think??? Jim I think that, if you keep re-painting the buggers, eventually they will be too large to mount on the boat! I do rather like the idea of installing colored lights instead - the designer can change the color anytime she wants to then! Script and Sjors 2 Quote WayneNeither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.Epictetus
Nirvana Posted August 20, 2013 #53 Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Popeye's case has advanced to the PTSD-OCD-ADHSD stage (post tramatic shipbuilding disorder with ocean craft delusions and attention deficient and hyperactivity shipbuilding disorder). It's terminal with no hope of a cure. Lucky ole fart. Wondering if a Therapy for Shipaholics session is needed here? Could be to late But the built is coming together beautifully. Edited August 20, 2013 by Nirvana mtaylor, Sjors, Script and 1 other 4 Quote Please, visit our Facebook page! Respectfully Per aka Dr. Per@Therapy for Shipaholics Finished: T37, BB Marie Jeanne - located on a shelf in Sweden, 18th Century Longboat, Winchelsea Capstan Current: America by Constructo, Solö Ruff, USS Syren by MS, Bluenose by MS Viking funeral: Harley almost a Harvey Nautical Research Guild Member - 'Taint a hobby if you gotta hurry
Script Posted August 21, 2013 Author #54 Posted August 21, 2013 Wayne, Thanks for stopping by... ...having just made a relo...I'm certain you are familiar with the nuance of dealing with a designer.... ...particularly when they live with you.. :D :D :D Per, Thanks for the visit.... I have your card and will be in contact if things start to deteriorate..... :D :D And thanks to Mark,( mtaylor) and the laminating jig he made for the Licorne. I needed to do something for the cap rail since I did not wish to use plastic. I had recalled the jig from some previous surfing and kind of remembered the principle. So I traced the bow outline and staked out the radius. The requirement is for about a 5mm rail so i used 3-2mm pieces. (they measured slightly smaller than 2mm) After pinning them in place on the traced radius, I 'painted' the up side with dilute Elmers. After about 6 hours of drying, I took it out.....and it remained to form!!!! :o :o I then glued the down side the same way. So I repeated the process for the other half and am trying to give it the same dry...the cap rail will be painted and by the time the designer decides on the final color there will be enough coats to hide any seam lines..... :D (If you look closely in one of the pics, you'll see the first coat of green on the stack bases.....) Jim trippwj, riverboat and mtaylor 3 Quote Completed Robert E Lee, Misisssippi riverboat Completed, HMS Victory Bow Section Completed, Wells Fargo Stagecoach...Picasa album.... Completed, Lackawanna tugboat converted to private yacht... Completed: Sopwith Camel, 1:16 Scale, Model Airways...at another location... Completed: 1961 Ferrari F-1 Sharknose Completed: (sorta) OcCre BR-18 Locomotive Completed: 1/35 Pz.KPfw.III Completed: Allerton Steam Pumper circa 1869
Script Posted August 22, 2013 Author #55 Posted August 22, 2013 A bit more progress..... Dry fit the bow cap rail and set up to make the side rails....... Waiting for things to dry........ Jim Anja, mtaylor and trippwj 3 Quote Completed Robert E Lee, Misisssippi riverboat Completed, HMS Victory Bow Section Completed, Wells Fargo Stagecoach...Picasa album.... Completed, Lackawanna tugboat converted to private yacht... Completed: Sopwith Camel, 1:16 Scale, Model Airways...at another location... Completed: 1961 Ferrari F-1 Sharknose Completed: (sorta) OcCre BR-18 Locomotive Completed: 1/35 Pz.KPfw.III Completed: Allerton Steam Pumper circa 1869
mtaylor Posted August 23, 2013 #56 Posted August 23, 2013 Nice looking railings, Jim. I'm glad the jig worked. I never thought about painting with glue to help in holding the shape, however. I have to give it a try. Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
Sjors Posted August 23, 2013 #57 Posted August 23, 2013 Nice Keep on going ! Quote Currend builds: USS Constitution by Sjors - Model Shipways - Scale 1:76 HMS Victory by Sjors - Jotika - Scale 1:72 On hold: VOC Reconnaisance yacht Duyfken by Sjors - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 Finished builds: HMS Snake (1797) by Sjors - Caldercraft - Scale 1:64 Nuestra Señora del Pilar by Sjors & Anja - OcCre - Scale 1:64 H.M. Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 by Sjors - Vanguard Models - Scale 1:64 HMS Agamemnon by Sjors - Caldercraft / Jotika - 1:64 San Ildefonso - OcCre Le Mirage - Corel Smit Rotterdam (sea tug) - Billing Boats - 1:75 Sovereign of the seas - De Agostini Spirit of Mississippi - OcCre Santissima Trinidad - OcCre Corsair - OcCre
Script Posted August 24, 2013 Author #58 Posted August 24, 2013 Mark, Sjors, Thanks for checking in! Finished up the cap rails except for the stern...that will be the section with almost 180 degrees of bend. But some time in hot water and some extra pin nails finally made the sections cooperate. going to give it an over night dry followed by turning it over and 'painting' the other side with dilute Elmers. On a side note....the proposed green has now been ruled out as a cap rail color........ The glue is sandable and paintable so it also works as a filler where there is a bit of kink in the 2x2,s....... Trying to do a bit every day so maybe I can get to a good stopping point before we start the move in to our newly remodeled home..... At present, it appears move in day is about September 17th..........we'll see......... Cheers, Jim Quote Completed Robert E Lee, Misisssippi riverboat Completed, HMS Victory Bow Section Completed, Wells Fargo Stagecoach...Picasa album.... Completed, Lackawanna tugboat converted to private yacht... Completed: Sopwith Camel, 1:16 Scale, Model Airways...at another location... Completed: 1961 Ferrari F-1 Sharknose Completed: (sorta) OcCre BR-18 Locomotive Completed: 1/35 Pz.KPfw.III Completed: Allerton Steam Pumper circa 1869
Script Posted August 24, 2013 Author #59 Posted August 24, 2013 Okay.......cap rail is installed... I'm posting the following for comparison once the rail is filled, sanded and painted (Now considering some shade of brown..... mtaylor 1 Quote Completed Robert E Lee, Misisssippi riverboat Completed, HMS Victory Bow Section Completed, Wells Fargo Stagecoach...Picasa album.... Completed, Lackawanna tugboat converted to private yacht... Completed: Sopwith Camel, 1:16 Scale, Model Airways...at another location... Completed: 1961 Ferrari F-1 Sharknose Completed: (sorta) OcCre BR-18 Locomotive Completed: 1/35 Pz.KPfw.III Completed: Allerton Steam Pumper circa 1869
mtaylor Posted August 24, 2013 #60 Posted August 24, 2013 Jim, a little sanding and that stern cap rail will look even better. Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
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