Oseberg Viking Ship by liteflight - Billing Boats - 1/25 Scale - 9th Century

[liteflight]

First model ship kit build: First build log on MSW.  Be still my beating heart!

 

The Kit:

Billings large model of the Oseberg Ship (1/25).  This turned out to be Billings part number 720 and has plywood laser-cut shields, and laser-scored scrollwork in ply

(More on the laser and ply later as the build commences)

The kit was a Christmas present (2018) from my lovely Admiral, and was ordered and obtained from our local model boat shop Float-a-Boat.  It took about 6 months to arrive but this was not a worry, as we both had plenty to do since we had just moved house.  By the way, "Oseberg" in Australia is pronounced "Osssburg"

I'm sure I could have obtained it cheaper and faster, but the end cost would be huge, as real model shops will not be there unless we use them

 

I failed to take the ceremonial unboxing and layout on the carpet pictures.  Sorry

Not much in the box, as longships do a LOT with a little material. 

Some dowels, stripwood  - all obechi as far as I can see, sail material, build instructions (which make IKEA instructions look encyclopaedic by comparison) and a double sided full size plan, which includes (some) dimensions for the build Jig

 

Why a Longship?

I love them!

I went to see the Sutton Hoo museum in Suffolk, UK and was smockraffled by the model of the reconstructed boat in the entrance.  It's about 1.5m long and I remember seeing it's bow from water level and realising that I want to make one of them.

So since that I have been reading about the construction - actual and model. 

I have learned of the wide range of boats in this style of construction then and now.

I can remember walking round Stavanger harbour in the 1980s and seeing small boats whose construction and fastenings are clearly cousins of the Oseberg ship

 

Confession.  I have Previous Form

In the early part of this century I raced Footy Radio-control (sometimes) yachts and progressed from state-of-the-art carbon masterpieces designed by Angus Richardson (he designed the 507 Footy still sold by Melbourne's RadioSailingShop) to satisfying scale gaff-riggers such as Presto (https://www.woodenboat.com/boat-plans-kits/presto-footy)

 

I was asked by Angus to make him a Drakkar to the Footy rules to act as his Admiral's barge on ceremonial occasions, so I made one, learned a LOT and made him the requested Drakkar called Rodolm with an Angus-designed pattern on the sail (photos follow if anyone is interested) 

The lower hull was carved blue foam (to the sections of the Gokstad ship) with about 3 strakes above the foam to make the hull.  The keel allowed a removable polycarbonate keel with lead ballast to be inserted.  Mast was exactly in the centre of everything and sail was fixed to the mast.  Both rotated up to 180 degrees to allow close-hauled sailing on either tack.

Now regrettably Angus had poor sight, and Rodolm had low and symmetrical prow and stern (as it had to comply with the Footy rules) and sailing her turned out to be a challenge for him.  I added a staff and mylar streamer to the stern to help him with orientation and wind direction.

 

Info: "Footy" yachts have to fit in a Box 12 inches long  x 6 inches wide x 12 inches deep. (Rodolm did)

 

I am aware of venturing into a huge forum of skilled experts with diverse knowledge. 

 

Please feel entirely free to dive in and comment, help, suggest solutions and/or request more (or less) information

 

To come in next post:

The build so far

Mine is a Friday Kit

Decisions about Floor levels

There will be no Ply edge visible!

The Giants on whose shoulders I an planning to stand 

andrew

[Edwardkenway]

Hello, or g'day if you like😉

From the sounds of it this could be a breeze with your previous 😁, looking forward to the photos of the aforementioned "footy"

Good luck with your Oseberg and have fun👍

[Louie da fly]

Pulling up a chair to watch!

 

If you have any questions, as a Viking period re-enactor in a previous life I may be able to help with detail questions (like - no horned helmets, please!) The Oseberg ship is apparently the funeral ship of Queen Asa (Oseberg is named after her), and archaeologists found two women's bodies on board - one presumably the Queen and the other probably a servant woman, probably killed as a sacrifice to accompany her mistress to the other world. I haven't revisited the information recently, but last time I looked they didn't know which woman was which, but one was quite old and had mis-shapen feet, and wore custom-made shoes to compensate.

 

Not sure if you already knew but when the Sutton Hoo ship was unearthed nothing remained of her timbers and they had to very carefully dig out her shape by the stains in the sand caused by the (vanished) iron nails. I've been twice to see the Sutton Hoo treasure in the British Museum - amazing stuff - the gold and garnet work looks like it was made yesterday! By the way there is now a group in the UK building a full-sized replica of the Sutton Hoo ship - see https://saxonship.org/

 

Though the kit has inscribed decorative carving you might like to look at photos of the original, which is even more complex and amazing (via a google image search) - though I don't know how possible something that intricate would be to duplicate at 1:25!

 

Oh, and when you get to the decorations on the shields, you might like to look at http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/shield/shield.html - Christobel and Peter are friends of mine from way back. Their home page is worth a visit, too. They're very hot on historical accuracy.

 

Have fun with it.

 

BTW, where in Melbourne are you? (Not that I can visit at the moment anyway, you understand . . .). 

 

 

[reklein]

Sounds like a great project ,but, tell me is "smockraffled" something like Gob smacked ?

[liteflight]

Thanks for the Views, likes and contacts

 

Edwardkenway

I'm sure there are plenty of challenges ahead with the Oseberg ship; some of them stemming from the kit, and the rest from my skills and mind-set.  I am a little reassured that many of the builders report the strakes assembling without too much difficulty.

And speaking of strakes and difficulty, here is Rødolm as she is now (probably a "he" in reality.  I was told that the name means Red Dragon)

AHA - i b'lieve that I have found how to drag a picture into text

Every day, if you are not careful: you learn a new thing

 

The "works"  Fixed carbon mast pivot which rotates 170 degrees with pulleys.  mast slips over and is pinned to the base.  Sail is fixed to mast and made of heavy drafting film.

Steering by steering oar (naturally) which was not in the box, but has a scale wooden oar painted on a large polycarbonate paddle-shape

keel splits round mast base and is pinned in place

 

 

Keel is 2mm polycarbonate and coarsly matted to make it less obvious

the strakes over blue foam are visible (I could not do extravagant sweeps up at stem and stern because of the Footy rules, same reason as why there is not a Dragon head (at the moment)

Batteries were 4 x AAA cells soldered up in pairs and painted to not stand out as they nestled in the cutouts

 

Enough about wee bits of history - onward with the real star of the piece

andrew

 

PS Picture sizing?  is this tolerable/ about right?

[Louie da fly]

7 minutes ago, liteflight said:

as she is now (probably a "he" in reality.  I was told that the name means Red Dragon)

Of course there are girl dragons! Otherwise we'd never have the pitter-patter of little dragon wings!

 

BTW if you want to reduce a photo size once it's inserted in your log, double click on it and a menu will come up allowing you to reduce the size - you can't increase it but that's not usually what's wanted anyway. To keep the ratio of vertical to horizontal sizes the same, click the appropriate box in the menu. And if you don't like it you can cancel -or else hit the undo symbol in the task bar at the top of your post.

[liteflight]

13 hours ago, reklein said:

Sounds like a great project ,but, tell me is "smockraffled" something like Gob smacked ?

Bill, you sound pretty laid back

 

You have it right: very similar expressions in the spectrum of discombobulation.  

 

Louie da fly

Many thanks for the food for thought and references.  I was aware that the Sutton Hoo ship was really a not-ship (or ship-shaped void) and I admire the early diggers recognition of what they had and calling in archeologists.  I believe that the owning family  had broken one plough too many on the stern or stem as they came near the surface, prompting the initial digging.

More later ; we moved to Vermont and are loving it. 

 

Pronunciation note for our American friends.  that's VER-mont here; not ver-Maant.  but we have similar moonlight

 

Next:  the experts I am following with this build

andrew

[liteflight]

Standing on the shoulders of Giants

 

The choice of Longship came down to size, as always at the back of my mind is a sailing model. 

On this count Billings won as it is, afaik, the largest Viking ship model kit on offer, and at 1/25 scale it makes into a substantial model

 

I had also read all the relevant build logs in the Kit section, and KrisWood's absorbing saga in the scratchbuilt Forum

 

I mean no disrespect by omitting excellent builders, but the Build Logs of Von Kossa and Jack Panzeca are the lodestars I am steering by - I cannot hope to achieve either their learning or excellent results, but I can learn a lot from them.  Thanks guys!

 

Billings kit 720  Oseberg Ship 1/25

 

 

 

Double-sided full size plan (with ruler for scale)

 

In my view these plans are excellent.  The instruction book is at the top of this picture

 

(Thank you Steven for the pic-shrinking tutorial)

The instruction book appears to be straightforward, but leaves a lot unexplained - hence my gratitude to the members who have posted their journeys of understanding and achievement.

 

 the Kit includes all required for the jig shown apart from the base-board, and this seems to earn Billings 30 brownie points.

All is not, of course as it appears :

Obechi 4 x 8 mm is supplied to hold the keel, and I chose to pin these to the base board such that the keel is a squeaky fit and held straight

There are two parts in 4mm ply designed to hold the prow and stern timbers.  They have a slot which does not fit any stage in the build, so they have been sleeved with soft balsa to be a neat fit

The build jig also neatly holds the hull inverted for planking and other fun and two formers are supplied to make a frame allow the hull to be clamped securely to the frame

The formers are shown (?glued) to the board using more 4x8 as a reinforcing block

To me this means that either the keel holding members or the formers have to be cut away to allow them to fit.  No great problem, but why?

Next:  Friday Kit

andrew

 

[liteflight]

Apology

I see that the last part of my previous post was rambling and incoherent🤥

I have the jig, boat and drawings and you don't, so it can't have made much sense.

 

I will be shorter, sweeter and better illustrated with photos

 

Friday Kit

I'm not sure if this is a purely UK expression, meaning something made on a Friday afternoon with one ear on the hooter ending work.

Laser -cut Kit.  

The 4mm ply was not laser-cut.  It was deeply laser-scribed, but the final ply almost uncut at one end of the sheet  (not flat on the platen, air jet nozzle blocked or voltage dropping as the cut progressed?)

 

Front side of part of the 4mm sheet

 

Back of the same sheet

 

So I cut the parts out with a heavy craft knife and did a lot of sanding to make an acceptable shape.  The process was to cut the tabs from the front, then trace to part from the back till it came away from the backing

In retrospect I could have cut out the parts with a fretsaw, and this would have left me with less recovery to do.  Live and learn

 

The curved prow parts came from this same 4mm ply sheet, and one of them was at the less-cut end, and only about half burned thru'

 

Now at last    The build

So far I have followed the illustrated guide as far as it agrees with the parts supplied

Keel straightened and glued to Prow and stern (Bow also soaked in warm water and straightened) 

(Perhaps bending of the ply sheet held one end off the platen and explains why the sheet was not fully cut)

Sanded flat and smooth when the glue (Titebond) had hardened overnight

Reinforcing ply doublers one side added to prow and stern (there laser-cut (right through!) in 1mm ply sheet, and keel doubler 1.8 mm obechi strip

only one side because of the thickness differences in the added parts!

Second side doublers added

 

Confusion

I confess to being fairly confused now about how to proceed.

The keel is straight, and I am sure that it will remain so as there are two longitudinal stringers as well as the planking to lock the straightness, but the prow has resumed its bend and I must do sommat about it

The confusion is that the keel and ply doublers are now different thicknesses . 

Do I sand/plane the keel doubler to the same thickness as the ply doublers?  I am inclined to leave it at its present thickness on the grounds that there is a healthier "step" to bond the Garboard strake into,

I am also very aware that the ply "carvings" have to be fitted in some of the area of the doublers, and I have read several ways of reducing the whole lot to a harmonious thickness. 

Right now I incline to removing as much of the 1mm ply doublers as is necessary to fit the carvings, thinned or as supplied,

My thinking is that this will give me a wider and more defined shoulder to fit the planks into - but run the risk of damaging the carvings in the planking process.

 

There is plenty to do right now. 

I am admiring the Jack Aubrey build jig as created by Cathead.  This seems to be an excellent way to achieve squareness of everything

From Cathead;s build log of the Gokstad ship

I wish to incorporate the openings at bow and stern as the original, and NOW would be the time to modify the relevant formers and keel parts

 

I also need to start to process of arriving at the final colour for the ship.  My intention is to achieve the colour she was on the burial day.  So dark oak which has been maintained with the preservative slapped everywhere every spring,  So wood, but dark and interesting.

Confusing the decision is the fact that the stains/dyes/stuff used by others do not ring any bells of recognition  with me.  I have some Australian stains from another job, and these are spirit-based and would be absorbed into obechi with a rude sucking noise.  What they will do to ply is unknown, so I need to dig out the cans and start experimenting.  I lean towards a walnut/oak mix, but will show you how the stains look 

 

Also in the colour issue is my absolute decisions that:

• There shall be no laser char!  
• There shall be no ply edge visible or exposed

the first is being addressed by copious elbow-grease,

and the address the ply edges I intend to laminate all edges that might be visible (and risible) with micro-veneer. I have supplies in pine and several other pale woods (it is around 0.2mm thin, that's  .008" or 8 thou)  Originally purchased for making and planking ships in bottles.

 

Another decision is that this is my ship, and it will be ship-shape to my standards. 

Bearing in mind some drilling problems encountered later in the build by Von Kossa. I will predrill these holes (I guess they were for mast stays) before installing the ribs/formers

andrew

 

 

 

[KrisWood]

Thanks for the shout-out! I'll be eagerly following your build to see how it comes along.

[Cathead]

Cool, another Viking log to follow! Just for the sake of possibly pedantic accuracy, the image you show is the frame Jack Aubrey built for his Gokstad ship, not the one I built for my Skuldelev 2 ship, though mine is based on his (I want to make sure he gets full credit).

[liteflight]

 Not pedantic at all,  Cathead

I wanted to give credit where it is due, and clearly was ‘asty (hasty when said by a Cockney)

A question, if I may, while you are here.

in the opening post to your log, you quote a list of build logs you have referenced, and the Listings are Links. How do you do that?  I wanted also to do that, and would cut-and-paste from somewhere in the blog if I knew where.
I like the walnut stain, by the way
 

[Cathead]

When you start typing a reply, look at the toolbar immediately above the text box, which has all sorts of text formatting tools. Hovering your mouse cursor over each one will tell you what it does. About halfway along is one that looks like a chain that lets you link text. So just select and copy the URL for a given log, then select whatever text you want to represent the link, then click the link tool and paste it in.

 

So, for example, the URL for my build log is https://modelshipworld.com/topic/24932-viking-longship-by-cathead-dusek-135/

 

If I want to link it in the text "the link to my build log", I copy the URL above, select "the link to my build log", click the link tool, copy the URL into the URL box in that tool, and the result is: "the link to my build log"

 

If you want to link to a specific post within a log, look for the number in the upper right corner of the post (i.e. #20). Right click that and select "copy link location". Now that you have the link to that specific post, use it with the above instructions.

 

Is that clear enough? It's always hard to write these things out.

 

 

[liteflight]

Cathead,

Thanks very much, I will give that a try

very clear description

[Louie da fly]

Hi Andrew.

 

You've done a good job handling the "Friday Kit" issue - yes perhaps you could have done it more easily with a saw, but at the very least it'll be a lesson learned and another thing to know if it ever happens again (fingers crossed it won't!).

 

Regarding the stempost/prow, sometimes no matter what you do, the wood will always return to the shape it wants to be in. In which case the only sensible and realistic thing to do is make a new one out of a piece that isn't bent. Obviously, it would be preferable if you can get the existing one straight, but just be aware that making a new one might be better in the long run.

 

Unfortunately this would also involve making new doubling pieces for the prow - I doubt you could re-use existing ones, unless you can dissolve your glue  - rubbing (isopropyl) alcohol will dissolve PVA (white) glue and I'm told nail polish remover dissolves super (CA) glue, but I haven't personal experience of the second one. You can get isopropyl alcohol (brand name Isocol - in a 75ml dark green plastic spray container with a white label with a crocodile on it) from Coles or Woolies in the personal grooming aisle (so you can get it while doing your necessary food shopping).

 

What you should do about the different thicknesses of the stem and stern posts vs the keel is a bit hard to know without looking at it, but your assessment is probably right. I'm not sure what you mean about the possibility of damaging the carving strips, but I'm really not familiar with how it all fits together, so it's a bit hard to visualise. Perhaps those who have made the same kit will be able to help on this one. 

 

Good luck with it. You're doing a good job and your persistence and attention to detail will pay off in the long run.

[liteflight]

Cathead

It works!  and your explanation was perfect

Many thanks

 

Steven

Many thanks for your comments.  Genuinely useful!

 

Bit of biographical info:  I'm a native Scot and arrived in Oz about 7 years ago, so I speak a wee bit of the language.

One word I do know in Australian is "Isocol"  -the sovereign remedy for wrong-gluedness.  I confess I learned from and with Bindy,

This forum provides me with inspo

 

Having poured out my woes about differing thicknesses (which of course have also required different close-fitting slots in the jig) I consumed a large mug of Rosie Lee and realised that I need to know rather than worry.

 

So I shall liberate the scrollwork and find how it fits and how it must be when complete.  Ditto some of the strakes to see how they nestle in the rabbit made by the doublers.

Then I shall know better how to proceed!

 

The lurking Drakkar

Behind my shoulder is the sailing version of this boat - which will be made with similar parts but of different materials. 

It will have provision for a removable drop-keel and I need to give serious thought to sail control as the sail needs a wide range of angle to be able to sail close-hauled on both tacks.  The rotating mast could still be a favourite way of achieving this, but this makes difficulties with mast stays, etc

I am very aware that Queen Asa's ship was not made for ocean-going, so I expect to take some liberties with freeboard, etc.  Certainly the model will be sailing in scale storm conditions more often than not

I also find the Oseberg cross-section a bit awkward where the strakes join the upper planks.

I would want to "hourglass" this a bit more in conjunction with  raising the freeboard a bit

And - I need to consider just where to fit the hydrofoils 😁

 

So now I  go to liberate some strakes and the scrollwork and establish in my mind how this will work best

Also to dig out of the shed the assorted stains I have, and try them on representative woods

 

[Louie da fly]

Yep - the link worked for me!

 

Looking forward to seeing the next instalment!

[Balclutha75]

On 8/6/2020 at 1:26 AM, liteflight said:

I lean towards a walnut/oak

I'm enjoying your build log Andrew, as I stumble along on my Viking ship. Seems like Viking ships rule on this forum right now.

 

My plan is also to go with a walunt / oak mix, so I'll be interested to see what you come up with, and will presumably learn as you go. I have paints from Mode Expo on hand already.

 

Nelson

[liteflight]

Hi, Nelson

I have been following your build, and appreciate the thinking behind the steps you take. 

4 hours ago, Balclutha75 said:

'm enjoying your build log Andrew, as I stumble along on my Viking ship. Seems like Viking ships rule on this forum right now.

Indeed, there will be a veritable fleet of longships setting out from the viks next spring.  I can see them now, with the men in their gleaming silver mail coats, Ak47s akimbo and the Jarl in his winged helmet at the prow holding on to the dragon head.

 

I know, I know! Titanium mail was not common, guns a long way off and NO WINGS, {I was seeing it with Hollywood goggles and to exercise Louis-da-fly’s eyebrows}

 

I reviewed my stock of stains yesterday, and indeed I have only oak and mahogany on the shelf (And a couple of bottles of mixes of the two).

we are in Stage 4 lockdown at the moment, and the suppliers Bunnings are closed to the public.  Still open for online ordering, tho.  I hope to try some trial staining today

 

Did I mention the I do not love obechi wood?  It has a very open grain and I have had sad experiences of it in my youth in model aircraft building,  I am telling myself that the grain will resemble riven oak when used for the flooring timbers; and myself is replying that he will use some of the lime we got!

 

linguistic aside:  I hail from the northern part of the Uk, and the language and accents are greatly influenced by the Scandewegian settlers.  So “riven” is common as an adjective in most of English, but my father ( who was from Cumbria) would use the verb “rive”, but not with the splitting meaning.

the question  “What are you riving at?” Suggested that you were applying lots of energy to little avail!

 

[Louie da fly]

7 minutes ago, liteflight said:

I know, I know! Titanium mail was not common, guns a long way off and NO WINGS, {I was seeing it with Hollywood goggles and to exercise Louis-da-fly’s eyebrows}

Aaaargh!

 

BTW, even the cleanest and shiniest of mail doesn't shine from a distance - it just looks grey. I puzzled over this for a while, then realised it's the combination of the shine and the shadow -sort of pixillated in very small bits of black and white/silver - looks grey from anything more distant than very close up.

So much for Tolkien's "shining mail". A bit of a disappointment, really. That's me standing third from the right, with my hand resting on the head of the Big Axe (TM).

[liteflight]

Good hooking axe, Steven

And a fine body of men!
Did you form a skaldborg?  I see you have what I would call kite shaped shields

 

10 minutes ago, Louie da fly said:

BTW, even the cleanest and shiniest of mail doesn't shine from a distance - it just looks grey. I puzzled over this for a while, then realised it's the combination of the shine and the shadow -sort of pixillated in very small bits of black and white/silver - looks grey from anything more distant than very close up

 

Yes, the multiple reflections just form a texture and not a shine.  Steel mail?

i often imagine keeping this from seawater in a Drakkar!  The mail might go in a chest, but weapons would be stowed beneath the floorboards, as would everything else.  Viking WD40 with added phosphoric acid?

[Louie da fly]

That was at the re-enactment of the Battle of Hastings in 2006, on the actual battlefield. As I'd been to the previous Big One (and because I'm a shameless self-promoter) I got to play King Harold's brother Leofwine.These guys are members of my hearth troop, which I recruited in Australia (and elsewhere) before I went. Not so much a skaldborg - the battle captain of the English right wing described them as "having your own personal SAS". He used them as shock troops. And though the Franco-Bretons were scripted to break and run, I think the Aussies gave them a good reason to do so. The Australian method of re-enactment fighting is somewhat more vigorous than the English, and I don't think the enemy knew what hit them. See http://www.oocities.org/egfroth/Hastings2006.html

 

Yes, the Bayeux Tapestry shows the great majority of the English with kite-shaped shields - only a few with round ones, which seem to have been going out of use at that time.

 

The mail is made of iron rings - the most recent re-enactor stuff is closer to the original in that the rings are closed with tiny rivets. Mine is old-(re-enactor) style with the rings butted closed, but made of spring steel which is a lot stronger than mild steel and resists the attack of the dreaded "mail moth".

 

The stuff is prone to rust. It would probably be kept in an oiled leather bag. Not many Vikings had mail - it was pretty expensive - and swords were just about as rare. A spear, dagger and perhaps an axe would be what most Vikings had unless they were rich. The swords would have been taken care of even better than the mail, as they were invested with all kinds of manly mystique. I doubt very much that a sword would have been stored under the floorboards.

 

 

[liteflight]

Hwaet, Jarl Leofwine

so you stood with king Harold Godwinsson on Senlac hill!  
Respect!

I’m guessing you marched south with him and the Housecarls after marmelising Harald Hardrada at Stamford Bridge

Good yomping, that.

I always assume that the two attacks were co- ordinated as much as they could be, and the outcome at Hastings Would have more likely to go to the defenders if there had been more time and less exhaustion
And we would likely be talking  now a language more like Danish or Frisian with a lot less Romance influence

Perhaps

Onyhow, you tried!

 

Meanwhile, back at the shipyard

I have applied the stains I have, which are pure, spirit-based dye, to the 4mm ply from which the bones of the hull are made.  I have also tried it on Some sticks of roughly sawn obechi.  I will liberate some of the strakes from the 1mm ply sheets and try them, too

I know already what I think, but that might be altered by some other colours in the range (Feast Watson Prooftint range). There are a couple of possible candidates in the rest of the range, Teak, and Antique

As well as trying these, I want to see how it takes over glues, so I will intentionally do what usually I do accidentally, and drop, smear and fingerprint glue to see what happens

the stain is wet now, but I will take some photos tomorrow in natural light and see what the vast throng of onlookers think.

 

Glue 
I am using Titebond for the first time. My impression is that it is very thick and viscous, and prolly suitable for carpentry.

I normally use Pva diluted 1:1 with water ( or sometimes screenwash) to build wood models.  The wood is often balsa or 1/64 ply and I clamp the joint, scrape it with a balsa “chisel” to remove excess and make a small fillet.  Then I wipe down with a wet cloth.

i was planning to do similar with the Longship, but the viscosity of titebond means it smears , and does not seem to wipe off easily.  We shall see......

 

A thought that might help someone some time:

All the white glues (pvas, woodglues, aliphatics, etc ) are thermoplastic

so you can apply the glue, let it dry and then use a hot iron to cause the glue to bond.

when used like this it is a hot melt glue, and the bond is made as it cools, so it is very near instant

there is very little spreading or staining

It’s a good way to laminate parts, and it occurs to me that it might be a good way to fix a clinker strake , as it could be applied a bit at a time under good control.

I confess that I have not made a dragon ship by this method, but I have made many laminated wing outlines, and frames for boats

 

 

 

 

[liteflight]

Feel free to vote for the stain colour you think most appropriate for a display model of the Oseberg longship.   

There should be some more stains to try before the first staining.

 

In the course to trying these I have discovered:

• These stains are soluble in Iso-propanol!
• As I discovered by spilling some on my cork building board
• The narrow bottles ALWAYS get knocked over and spilled
• I now know this and prepare the area, and keep them upright in a deep container padded by cloths

I applied a coat of stain to the 4mm ply that the frame is made from.  The large parts of the turnover jig are perfect for this

I have two bottles labelled Walnut and one labelled Mahogany

These are the two pots labelled Walnut, but I have a sneaking suspicion that I used one of them to trial-mix in a little Mahogany

I also stained an Obechi strip and some of my micro-veneer

I'm distinctly chuffed with the behaviour of the veneer, because A) it took the stain sweetly, and

B )  I was able to iron it flat without the stain misbehaving (or staining the sole of the Iron!).  Thank you GladBake (baking parchment)

 

So there we are.  The stain has been applied, and fully dried.

I expect to be able to glue the stained timber as easily as unstained.

The experiments with intentional glue contamination can now commence!

 

Why does the veneer (0.2mm thick) need to be ironed?

Well because it was bought rolled and stapled into little cones for use as dainty holders for something like sweets (US=candies:  Lincolnshire = clats)

So the veneer needs to be flattened by ironing or similar

 

Jack P used white oak veneer to cover the ply end grain, and since no mention was made of thickness I assume it was 0.6mm (25thou) which is more-or-less standard (I am told).  For Jack and Von Kossa the veneer was made to follow the concave curves on the frames (using Packing tubes already!) and the remaining part of the frame covered, I think, in  separate pieces of veneer

 

I aim to cover each frame top edge in a single length of veneer since

My veneer is thin ,

The tops of the frames are rounded off and I expect the veneer to be able to follow the rounded curve.  Its rounded because there are no square corners to fall against in my Longship!

I have experience of this both as a boat-user and full size builder of marine equipment,

 

I said that I was chuffed earlier

In fact my state is "chuffed to little Naafi-breaks" because I have just made my first box-joint

 

This is made with scrap ply, but now I have  a working jig, and the world is my lobster!

 

[Louie da fly]

Looking good. I think the walnut colours look better than the mahogany, and if i had to choose, I'd probably go for Walnut A, with Walnut pot 2 coming a very close second.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing how the veneer works.

[liteflight]

Thanks, Steven

That echoes my current thinking.  
To facilitate the sailing version I will trace the frames ( I have already photocopied them) then veneer them and rub it down/stain and assemble to the keel

There are 2 obechi lengths 4x8 mm which join all the frames, and when glued in these will strengthen the whole assembly.

Deck levels
I have already decided that I will fit intermediate frames between the ply, kit, ones, which are 4mm thick.  I have a (huge) supply of lime wood from salvaged Venetian blinds, and this is 3 mm thick.  My current view is that this will look ok, especially since I plan to make these as  minimal timbers fitted to the strakes. 
Not describing it well.

I’ll sketch what I plan and post it here
 

 My veneer cover has virtually no thickness.  I want the floor planks to be level with the frame tops, so the bearers for the floor planks need to be lowered by 1.8mm or so below the frame tops.  I plan to use something like 1.5 mm square to support the floor planks

Again, easier to sketch than describe

I make all my drawings in LeftyCad

[Cathead]

I agree that the walnut looks better to me. The mahogany has a reddish-maroon tint that doesn't really match my sense of a tarred hull.

[Balclutha75]

Another vote (from a complete newbie, so worth less than $0.02), for Walnut A. Agree with Cathead that the mahogany Is too red.  Did you decide against oak?

 

The Model Expo paints I have are short, squat bottles. Now I see there’s a practical reason for that.

Thanks for the linguistic lesson. Louie, your Hasting Battle looks incredible.

[liteflight]

Thanks, Balclutha and Eric

The state of Victoria is in a condition of stage 4 lockdown, so it is not possible to go and buy anything except food and pharmaceuticals

So I am working with what I have in stock.  Certainly the mahogany can be discounted, but I would like to try Oak and Antique in the same range.

 

It is possible to order online and collect, or have it delivered - so I expect to gather an order for house, home and hobby and have it delivered.  

 

As an aside I have just looked to find out what Tasmanian Oak is.  And, not surprisingly it is one of three related species of Eucalyptus!  

 

And thinking of oak, and the recovered Viking ships.  We know the dates when the timber was felled, but does anyone know WHERE the oak came from?  Dendrochronology would identify the area.  (Ah, yes, one of the Skuldelev ships was made from Irish Oak)

 

When I was a  nipper I was taught that common or

pedunculate oak (Quercus robor) was a Roman import to Britain, and is a Mediterranean native.  This is not necessarily literally true, but even if it was, there would still be time to grow a lot of oaks in the areas of Roman occupation (basically up to the Rhine) in time for late viking shipbuilding.

Certainly trees are rare and valued in many of the "viking" lands.

 

We live in a cool part of Australia, but semi-tropical nonetheless.  Our street has a lot of European oaks , and one was recently felled and cut up.  The growth rings were 3 to 5 mm apart, rather than 1/3 to 1/2 mm that I am used to from this species of oak!  Not trees to make Victory from!

 

 

 

 

[Louie da fly]

I must have missed this earlier ; 

On 8/8/2020 at 6:44 PM, liteflight said:

Hwaet, Jarl Leofwine

Eorl, actually in English - though all the Godwinsons were half Danish on their mother's side - she was a relative by marriage of King Cnut.

 

On 8/8/2020 at 6:44 PM, liteflight said:

I’m guessing you marched south with him and the Housecarls after marmelising Harald Hardrada at Stamford Bridge

Nope, though I did visit Stamford Bridge in 2000. The bridge is no longer the same one (surprise, surprise!), and is probably now in a different place,a little downstream from the original one. A lot of streets in the town are named after the battle, and there'sa pub called IIRC the Swordsman. It's all but certain that the English army rode back south, just as they'd rode north - which they did in something like four days - must have all but killed the horses - I expect they would have left those ones behind and grabbed replacements from York and surrounds.

 

On 8/8/2020 at 6:44 PM, liteflight said:

I always assume that the two attacks were co- ordinated as much as they could be

As far as I've been able to discover there's no evidence at all that they were - both Harald Sigurdssen and William the Bastard decided "England's ripe for the taking - I'll take it." Harald was persuaded to invade by Harold of England's brother Tostig, who was in a snit with him for getting him removed from the Eorldom of Northumbria when Edward was king. He first went for refuge to his brother-in-law the Count of Flanders, and got him to provide a fleet with which he raided the south of England, but left when his brother arrived with an army. The he went up to Norway and did a fantastic sales job on Harald Sigurdssen and persuaded him to invade. There's more to the story, but once I get started . . .

 

On 8/8/2020 at 6:44 PM, liteflight said:

the outcome at Hastings Would have more likely to go to the defenders if there had been more time and less exhaustion
And we would likely be talking  now a language more like Danish or Frisian with a lot less Romance influence

Almost certainly. Harold lost many of his best warriors at Stamford Bridge. Hastings lasted all day - and it was what Wellington later called Waterloo - "the nearest run thing you ever saw in your life." It's a bit pointless to speculate after the event, but I think Harold Godwinson was just plain unlucky. He saw off a Norwegian invasion. If that hadn't happened, he probably would have been able to see off the Norman one.