Cutty Sark by Bruma - Revell - 1:96 - PLASTIC

[Bruma]

On 1/6/2021 at 7:16 AM, gak1965 said:

What beautiful work you have done throughout the build

Thank you!

After many hours spent on the model it's sometimes difficult to look at the build with fresh eyes and keep some degrees of objectivity. You may start to like something just because you are used to it.

That's why it's important for me to have an external opinion such as yours.  

Bringing back memories about your grandfather and the time you have spent together is the best use one can think of this hobby. 

 

On 1/5/2021 at 4:54 PM, shipman said:

What will you be using for the chain elements of the rigging?

That's a great question!

I spent a great deal of time looking for a proper chain in 1/96 scale and this is what I was able to find:

 

 

From top to bottom:

- the smallest Amati chain: completely unusable for the rigging, they are too big,

- 16 loops/cm chain from a French  shop: quite small, I will use them for halliards, still have to decide if to use them for the sheets or to use twisted copper,

- trumpeter chain set number 06624 (each set contains two different chains, this one is the smallest one). I have used this one for the bowsprit rigging, and I'm really happy with the result! I will soon post some picture so that you can judge for yourself. The shape and the size are almost perfect for this purpose.

 

If you have any suggestion I'll be glad to hear your thoughts! 

 

On 1/5/2021 at 4:54 PM, shipman said:

Good progress, Vlad.

Thank you and, by the way, even if I like the name "Vlad", mine is actually Marco 🤣

 

 

 

[Jim Lad]

The chain used in the running rigging was very light and I very much doubt that you'll find anything anywhere near scale.  You can use black thread instead as the chain links would be too small to see at 1/96.

 

John

 

PS: I assume you're talking about chain sheets etc.  You should be able to get scale chain for the head rigging.

[Bruma]

Thank you for commenting, Jim. 

I was almost sure that the smallest chains would fit  for the sheets too, but your post makes me less confident. So I decided to make a quick fit test on the fore lower topsail yard, and this is the result:

 

They are indeed too big, here is a pic of the actual size:

 

Their size is similar to the footrope… So now I have to decide: is it better to have an oversized chain or a small black line of thread? 

I’ll be glad to hear your opinion and eventually other options. 

I have made also some tests with twisted copper wire, but the looks more like a rope than a chain in my opinion…

 

 

 

[shipman]

MARCO 😜 ! I agree the chain is a little over scale. BUT the effect is more in character; to me it looks convincing.

Initially these things look slightly incongruous, but by the time your rigging is completed, this will look less so. It's like staring at your nose in a mirror...eventually it looks enormous!

The smallest chain I could find was 54 links per inch (you have to look hard to realise it IS chain!).

Unfortunately the chap who supplied it has passed and I haven't found another supplier. If anyone knows where 54lpi chain can be found, please let us know.

[Cirdan]

6 hours ago, shipman said:

I agree the chain is a little over scale. BUT the effect is more in character; to me it looks convincing.

 

Yes, indeed. The line of thread would be the wrong choice. 

[Bruma]

Ok, a funny tale now:

I agree with you, the chain, even if a little bigger than needed, are better than line of thread. 

I checked the online store where I bought them the first time, I need many more of them, about 7 meters should be ok. 

It is a French shop, but now they don't have them anymore, probably they will have them back in April, probably...

So I started again to search for this damn chains, I found them in a UK shop, checked the size and the availability, all ok, ready to place the order (about 50 euros...)

Then I remember: today is January  13! Since the first of January UK is out of the UE.

It turns out that I might be paying from 15 to 40 euro more at customs authorities! 

So I start again to look for other sellers based in EU and found nothing! 

This is a wonderful hobby, but sometimes it can get so frustrating.... 

[kirill4]

Good day Bruma,

Oh! Exelent work!!! Very clean and accurate! studied your posts with great interest!

Will follow your build with great interest!

Have plan to assemble this kit somewhere in future ...

found some shops with chain and steel ropes...

there are sizes in chains(segments)/cm

http://www.greenstuffworld.com/en/97-hobby-chain

https://lavka-korabela.ru/products/tsep-10-zvenev-sm?tab=tabOptions

https://www.shipmodeling.ru/shop/model_elements/tsepi/

 

it looks like smallest will be 16 links / cm - link  of 0.65 mm approx in length?

Shipman mentioned somthing 0.45 mm link... 

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by kirill4

[shipman]

Kirill4, hi!

The language is an issue, but the 3 suppliers you list seem to have chain bigger than what Marco needs.

The tiny chain I did get was also BLACK! Shame I can't find a new supplier. It's small enough for anchor chain on 1:700 ships.

[kirill4]

Good day shipman,

for this site ,for ordering , maybe we could  use google translator?...sometimes it works

but this smallest chain size, 16 links per 1 cm , may be it will be good for sheets? or it is still too big?

Edited January 14, 2021 by kirill4

[WalrusGuy]

Can't believe I just found this log. Photos are very professional, and the work is very nice and crisp! I'll be following with great interest!!

[Bruma]

Hello everyone and thank you for your great support! 

Kirill4, you are right: the chain shown in my previous post, the smallest one, has exactly 16 links per centimeter, thank you for dedicating your time trying to help me. I really appreciate it! 

They are indeed available around the world, but not so easily in the EU.  The problem is the customs fees, which can vary a lot and raise significantly the price. 

If anyone of you is interested in this kind of chain from the UK, here you have a link:

 

https://www.langleymodels.co.uk/awd1/index.php?route=product/category&path=207

 

But now, like any good story, I have my own dramatic turn!

Yesterday I visited my trusted model shop, not more than 10 kilometers away from my house. 

I asked them for such a small chain all the previous times and the answer was always the same: we have nothing so small. 

Well, yesterday I was almost at the point of avoiding the question, but in the end I tried and…

They have them! They started to resell them just some weeks ago, and they are a real small marvel! 

You can see them in this picture, they are the first one on top: 

 

 

The second one is the one you already saw in the previous post and the third is the slightly bigger one I already have. 

They are again from Trumpeter. 

They are not so cheap, but it is affordable for such a great look! 

As you can see they are as small as the previous one, but the shape is more like a real chain. 

 

So, after all this digression, I can continue the build! 

Thank you all again! 

 

And now, it’s time for some updates! 

 

Masts assembly and upper rigging

 

In this picture the masts are glued and painted. Only the futtock shrouds are in place. 

 

 

With the masts assembled but still nor glued to the deck I started to rig the upper shrouds, the stays and the backstays. 

 

Here the topmast shrouds are also visible. They are almost completed, only the free end of the lanyards need to be fixed in place.

 

 

And here a close up view:

 

 

All the lower shrouds are altredy installed and labelled in order to avoid misplacements in the future. 
 

In this last picture, the mizzen mast is almost completed, with the topgallant shrouds and realive futtock shrouds already in place.

Topgallantstay and backstays are also vible.  

 

 

Note the cap band still not modified, the final version is visible in one of the previous posts, the number 57. This shows perfectly how many times I have had to come back revisiting some detail when it was more difficult to get the job done. And still I'm satisfied by the the final result on the cap bans but now it is too late to add the needed details... 

I spent almost half the time of this build studying the ship and planning my next move but still I make so many mistakes and afterthought. 

But I’m enjoying the process a lot! 

Thank you all and see you next time! 

[shipman]

kirill4, hi again. 16 lpcm = 40 lpinch.

Without a visual comparison or an accurate link count, it's difficult to make a decision.

 

Marco, do you have a link count for that small chain you found?

Very much impressed with your progress. You put your finger on the first golden rule.....enjoy what you do.

If everything was perfect in this world we wouldn't understand how bad things can get!

[kirill4]

Good day Bruma,

some vital important questions for me,

1. What are the sizes of deadeyes which you use? all 3 sizes ( main,top and top gallant)? or You use more sizes?

Where did you find them( deadeyes)?

2. I saw you use same size for top gallant and top mast deadeyes? why? or it looks same only on the foto?

[Bruma]

10 minutes ago, shipman said:

Marco, do you have a link count for that small chain you found?

12 links/cm for the first one 

 

16 links/cm for the second one 

 

8-9 links/cm for the third one.

 

But even if the firs one has fewer link

 

As you can see, even if the first one has fewer links per centimeters, the thickness in slightly smaller due to the more elongate shape of each link. 

 

This is the exact article:

https://www.amazon.com/Master-Tools-Universal-Chain-0-6mmX1-0mm/dp/B08FF8KZ4G

on the front the logo is "master tools" but on the back they are labelled "trumpeter". 

 

Thank you for your kind words! 

[kirill4]

Ah, sorry,

that chain You was lucky to find ,smallest one , how many links per cm is it ?

is it "Trumpeter" made/ product?

sure/agree that clipper sheets( of this period) need to be made from shain! even we have to  sacrifice a scale a little bit  

[Bruma]

8 minutes ago, kirill4 said:

Good day Bruma,

some vital important questions for me,

1. What are the sizes of deadeyes which you use? all 3 sizes ( main,top and top gallant)? or You use more sizes?

Where did you find them( deadeyes)?

2. I saw you use same size for top gallant and top mast deadeyes? why? or it looks same only on the foto?

Hi Kirill4.

For the main I use 3 mm deadeyes, top and topgallant are 2 mm.

They are simply the smallest I was able to find on the market at reasonable cost. 

I don't have the tools to make them by myself with the needed precision and uniformity. 

They are from Amati and even if they are the smallest available for me, they are still too big, unfortunately...

 

Edit: 

I was answering the first post while you wrote the second one.

The answer given to shipman should be good enough but if you need more information you have just to wite me! 

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Bruma

[kirill4]

Oh , sorry ,

You already answered about chains...

[kirill4]

Thank you very mach,

Bruma,

clear about deadeyes... I thought/ planned to use "dremel "  hand drill to machine a little bit topgallant 2 mm conventional deadeyes to smaller size? but it is just my plan... I didn't try to do it...

And I think to use liquid plastic to replicate/ casting blocks and dead eyes as much as I need in different sizes and shapes...

they are seems too expensive for me if planned to  purchase all ness-ry quantity on the market...

I planned to purchase 10 pcs of each sizes and shapes( high quality professional made blocks and deadeyes) I need and than to replicate them in epoxy or in plastick...as much as I need...

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by kirill4

[shipman]

Hi guys, thought you may find this interesting.....

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Model-Ship-Anchor-Chain-30cm-Link-Brass-1-700-Scale-Spare-Parts-Black-Accessory-/163432602129

 

It doesn't state a link count, but based on the 1:700 model pictured it is tiny. And it's already black. Worth a look?

 

There should be other vendors.

[kirill4]

shipman, Thank You for this information!

[Bruma]

Thank you, Shipman! 

They seem to be quite small indeed. 

 

On 1/16/2021 at 12:34 AM, kirill4 said:

And I think to use liquid plastic to replicate/ casting blocks and dead eyes as much as I need in different sizes and shapes...

Kirill. I’m sure you'll be successful! 

I have just realised who you are by looking at the link in your signature and I invite everyone to do the same. 

Your spanish galleon is a true marvel, an inspiring work and an example of what can be achieved starting from a humble plastic kit. I’m glad to have you aboard! 

 

Some small updates:

 

Martingale and whisker booms.

 

I decided to try to improve those areas. They are quite visible and due to the restriction of plastic, Revell made them quite big and bulky. 

Replacing them was a delicate decision… After some tests I decided to go ahead, and I removed completely the original cleats and lugs. The new one are made out of copper wire, pressed where needed to obtain a flat surface. Almost all of them are secured by small holes inside the plastic part and then glued. Only the outermost cleats of the whisker are secured only with ca glue. I used the gel version, which is denser, and it dries slowly. I use the CA glue not only as a glue but also as a filler and the result is a quite strong bond. 

The following pictures show this two parts before and after my attempt to improve them

 

 

They are still unpainted to better notice the added parts. 

 

Please note that the catheads are still a work in progress…

 

For the same reasons I decided to make a new spreader under the bow (I’m sure it has a proper name, but I can’t find it)

 

[kirill4]

Looks nice,  improvements well done!!!

[Sailor1234567890]

I've been looking for the name of that spreader device as well. Saw Lou Sauzzed from Tips from a Shipwright youtube channel going over basic nautical terminology and he referred to it as a dolphin striker but the dolphin striker is the "spear-like" piece sticking down from the end of the bowsprit, not extending from the cutwater. I'm still at a loss as to what to call that "spreader" thing. 

[Bruma]

On 1/19/2021 at 5:47 PM, Sailor1234567890 said:

I've been looking for the name of that spreader device as well. Saw Lou Sauzzed from Tips from a Shipwright youtube channel going over basic nautical terminology and he referred to it as a dolphin striker but the dolphin striker is the "spear-like" piece sticking down from the end of the bowsprit, not extending from the cutwater. I'm still at a loss as to what to call that "spreader" thing. 

Let's hope someone can tell us the proper name for this "spreader". I'm not prepared to admit the existence of a part of a ship without a proper name! 🤪

 

Time for updates: 

 

Ratlines and bowsprit rigging. 

 

The ratlines were a big question mark for me... I have never tried to do something similar before, and I tried different methods. I build myself a jig to make as many tests as I want, in order to find the best solution and to practice as much as possible. 

I ended up with the clove hitch. It is a time-consuming solution, but it seemed to be the better one.  

So after a lot of practice on the jig, I started on the fore mast. 

Many times during the build I tested for the first time solution and techniques on the fore mast. Sometimes there are no other options, but in this case it would have been smarter to start with the mizzen mast. There the eventual mistakes are less visible...

Anyway, with a bit of luck, I made it! 

And this is the result:

 

 

The distance between each line is in scale, taken from the Campbell’s plans resized to fit the real size of the model. 

I’m quite happy. My goal was to make them evenly tensioned, without distorting the shrouds. 

 

Next I started the rigging of the bowsprit. 

This area is quite complex. A lot of planning needs to be made in order to rig everything without going crazy…

I started with the inner and outher martingale stays and the bobstay.

The are chains by trumpeter, see the discussion above about the chains, they are the third one on post #61. 

The eyebolts on the lower side of the bowsprit need to be built too, they are not present in the kit. 

While working on the eyebolts, I also make the original ones a bit thinner, drilling a bigger hole in the plastic ones. 

The bobstay is a bit more complex: it has deadeyes, and it is made fast to the bowsprit with a ring.

I tried to replicate this feature, but it was not an easy task. I wanted to have the correct distance between the deadeyes, and so the chain needs to be cut of the precise length. 

It was an interesting process overall and this is the result:

 

 

The picture above shows also the martingale completely painted and the handropes and relative poles. They are not present on the kit, and they need to be added. 

 

Next I moved to the jib stay, the fore topgallant stay, flying jib stay and fore royal stay. 

Instead of starting to rig them from the mast (which is not yet glued in place), I started from the hull. 

They are attached by deadeyes and the innermost ones are under the bow decoration. Again it was not that easy to make them…  

New holes need to be drilled in the hull to fit the eyebolts and the location has to be so that the lines can pass through the decorations without zigzaging.

And here they are: 

 

 

The bowsprit is nowhere near the end, but it starts to take shape!

[kirill4]

Good day,

have some doubts regarding position ( under name plate)and the way of securing hearts/ (not deadeyes) of standing parts of the stays to the hull compare to the Campbell drawings and his notes on the drawings...

and position of the middle rail in the kit looks wrong?

Cutty Sark.pdf

Edited January 25, 2021 by kirill4

[CALCIUM]

Super !

[shipman]

Hi, me again.

Just found a copy of the book by Cyril L. Hume which justifies a little backtrack to around #39.

Near the back of the book is a graphic illustration of the layout of deck features.

 

Interesting highlight is the forecastle, which comes directly to the front of the 'heads' with a straight cross beam. The ladder is central and the three items of rigging on the bulwarks to either beam.

The main mast has one Fife Rail (forward).

The fore mast has Fife Rails fore and aft.

 

Of particular interest to me in this area is a total absence of the contentious large deck winch!

 

My previous comments, here and elsewhere, highlight my past incredulity relating to its position and use.

This illustration goes a long way to persuade me that the existing deck winch is spurious and in all probability was never fitted.

Think about it.......where was the original chain/cable locker located?

If it was below where the winch is now fitted it would have taken valuable cargo stowage space.

I contend that the cable locker was directly below the forecastle.

Makes a lot of sense to my lubberly eye.

[Cirdan]

Hallo Shipman,

 

do you mean this illustration in Cyril Humes Booklet "Cutty Sark. Last of the racing clippers" (sorry for the bad quality)?  

 

 

The source is from the Science Museum, so I think it refers to Longridges Cutty Sark model although only a unspecified clipper is mentioned. And the angled forefoot belongs undoubtedly to the Cutty Sark. 

But the device above the usual position of the windlass (don't know it in english) shows, that such a windlass or winch must be present under the forecastle deck. See the following drawings in Longridges Book:

 

 

 

 

[shipman]

Hi Cirdan.

 

Yes, that's the illustration I mentioned.

I'm convinced it is of the Cutty Sark (it's dated 1970).

 

Don't think there's a connection to the Longridge model, as that was based on a solid hull. Yet certain internal details are depicted.

Indeed, a curious omission in the short bibliography is any mention of the Longridge book (the C/S 'bible' of the time).

In vol.1, it is mentioned that the first appearance at the Science Museum of the Longridge model was 1933 (many years before his model of 'Victory').

 

Plate 2, vol1, is a general arrangement elevation, drawn by Underhill.

This does include the big deck winch, where it is today. The forecastle comes further back, to the heads, with the straight beam, central ladder and 3 pin rail either on side.

The windlass (fig.70) is indeed there, under the forecastle. I maintain my opinion, this was the primary anchor windlass; the cable locker being directly below.

 

In addition, vol.2 has several clear photo's of these areas (figs.6,37,46,67) taken at Falmouth. The large deck winch isn't there (fig.37).

 

Figs 46 and 67 couldn't be any clearer of the forecastle/ladder arrangement at that time. The rails at the rear of the forecastle are solid wooden items similar to the one at the break of the poop-deck.

Fig.6 also shows two boats on separate skid beams either side and above the fore-deck house.

 

Another seldom mentioned issue with the Revel kit is the wheel is too close to the rear of the 'monkey poop'; perhaps an unfortunate term.

 

It's sad no good photo's of Longridge and Hume's models are on the 'net. Surely these are seminal works, yet a generation apart.

Longridge took his notes when the ship was still afloat at Falmouth.

Hume did his research at Greenwich (after the 'first' renovation).

[shipman]

A correction.

 

After a little digging, the Longridge and Hume models are of similar dates. The MAAS Museum states the Hume model was finished in 1932 and purchased by them in 1933. There are several good photo's of the Hume 'Thermopylae', but only one or two of the Cutty Sark.

 

Perhaps there was some antagonism between the model makers?