Glory of the Seas medium clipper 1869 - FINISHED - by rwiederrich - 1/96

[ClipperFan]

5 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

I aplaud Rob. Well observed and truly believably executed. in your tiny scale this is mastery really. you getting dressed her by jevwellery already , soon to be ready go dancing  

Rob, it becomes a challenge how to continually acknowledge your ongoing achievements with your miniature ship. I am just so thoroughly amazed at how much your entirely scratch built vessel so accurately resembles Glory herself. 

By the way, Michael Mejelde sent a very brief reply to my latest share of your series comparison to scenes of Glory herself, he said "I am impressed." High praise indeed from the author of now 3 books on "GLORY of the SEAS!"

[ClipperFan]

4 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Finished up the top gallant rail cap and the install of the cat heads. 

Rob, as I just said a moment ago, it's rapidly becoming more and more of a challenge for me, who usually doesn't lack for words to continue to express my sheer amazement at the progress you demonstrate. This Glory is just so beautiful. It so closely resembles the scene of Glory at the Seattle dock that it's just uncanny. As you continue to develop her lovely, very sharp Clipper form it really justifies my suspicion that what Donald McKay achieved was an enormous cargo carry capacity vessel melded with the very sharp Clipper entrance and exit of the Extreme Clipper "Flying Fish."

[rwiederrich]

Thanks so much Rich, I’m truly honored by your comments. 
 

I worked the bowsprit,  it is still wet.  I even made the iron strap with a bolt.  I’ll take a better image when things dry

 

Rob

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by rwiederrich

[rwiederrich]

A few more images.  I won’t attach it till I finish adding all the head gear attachments and the martingale point.  And fixing all the guy and jib points 

 

It’s so much easier to do all that off model.  
 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

Thanks so much Rich, I’m truly honored by your comments. 
 

I worked the bowsprit,  it is still wet.  I even made the iron strap with a bolt.  I’ll take a better image when things dry

 

Rob

Rob, the Bowsprit, Jibboom combination are just beautiful while being faithfully accurate to the original herself. Probably one of the most exciting developments in our examination of Glory's true dimensions was when Michael Mjelde shared that crystal clear close up of her Bow and Figurehead. You, I and others were able to precisely count very specific measurements that have allowed accuracy that simply wasn't imaginable before. To see it recreated in miniature in such meticulous detail is constantly thrilling. As much as she impresses in these photos, your model must be even more stunning in person.

[Tony Hunt]

Fast progress!

[rwiederrich]

10 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, the Bowsprit, Jibboom combination are just beautiful while being faithfully accurate to the original herself. Probably one of the most exciting developments in our examination of Glory's true dimensions was when Michael Mjelde shared that crystal clear close up of her Bow and Figurehead. You, I and others were able to precisely count very specific measurements that have allowed accuracy that simply wasn't imaginable before. To see it recreated in miniature in such meticulous detail is constantly thrilling. As much as she impresses in these photos, your model must be even more stunning in person.

Well Rich...I appreciate that very much....however, I still think I could have done better on some details.  I think the transfer was lost in my own inability to replicate accurately.  Even in the most discriminating replica...there will be details lost in the translation.  Namely in the skills of the modeler in being able to make those translations accurately.   I have made a plethora of mistakes and shortcomings, that I have identified.  But for the sake of not distracting from the end goal...I will not divulge them here.

 

And I fully agree...without that very clear image of Glory's bow provided by Mike, we could not have been able to make accurate measurements....measurements we can use to reverse engineer the entire vessel.

 

The only true issue is some of the finer details....details that conflict with photographic evidence and those of Mike's original drawings.....and those details omitted from paintings or just not visible due to angle and distance.  There is still some wiggle room for artistic license.

 

Some of these items I will detail when I get to that install stage of the model.

 

Cheers.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

9 hours ago, Tony Hunt said:

Fast progress!

I'm an energizer bunny.......I need progress or I get anxious....plus the research is done...work is now upon me.

 

I need now to think of the means by which I will display her.  
What will be her pedestal.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

Upon further investigation and, just looking her over...I think I'm going to remake her bowsprit.  I think I miscalculated the size of her bowsprits dimensions.  Not in her length or in her details....but in her diameter.  She just doesn't look right to me...what does everyone think?

 

The main rail trim is lined up correctly, but I think I removed too much material when I turned the bowsprit down.

 

It just doesn't feel right.

 

No prob.  I can remake the entire rig..bowsprit/jibbom an all.

 

Rob

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

31 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Upon further investigation and, just looking her over...I think I'm going to remake her bowsprit.  I think I miscalculated the size of her bowsprits dimensions.  Not in her length or in her details....but in her diameter.  She just doesn't look right to me...what does everyone think?

 

The main rail trim is lined up correctly, but I think I removed too much material when I turned the bowsprit down.

 

It just doesn't feel right.

 

No prob.  I can remake the entire rig..bowsprit/jibbom an all.

 

Rob

i would say upper part ( not know the name) should be way smaller in diameter comparing to massive bowsprit . it looks almost the same on pic. I rescaled original diameter when making mine. id be lazy but its up to you   V. 

[ClipperFan]

Rob, Vladimir according to Duncan MacLean's description from 1869 the Bowsprit's dimensions were 24' inside of the Cap and 34" wide. While the Jibboom isn't described by width, I measured the dimensions of the 1911 Seattle Bow close up, I got 7/8ths" for the Bowsprit & 1/2" for the upper Jibboom. Dividing 4/8ths (1/2) by 7/8ths or simply 4 ÷ 7 =.57 x 34" = 19". In 1:96 scale, 34" = apprx 10/16ths" & 19" = about 7/16ths". Here's my sketch of the Bow at 1:96th scale 1/8ths" = 1'.

[rwiederrich]

Well I decided to remake the bowsprit the jibboom is not in question. What I want to do is make the entire D slightly larger the bowsprit is in my view too small based on the current data. The jibboom is proper in relation to the bowsprit but the bowsprit needs to be re-engineered that’s what I’m going to do thanks.

[ClipperFan]

11 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Well I decided to remake the bowsprit the jibboom is not in question. What I want to do is make the entire D slightly larger the bowsprit is in my view too small based on the current data. The jibboom is proper in relation to the bowsprit but the bowsprit needs to be re-engineered that’s what I’m going to do thanks.

Rob, when the two combined are complete, the upper Jibboom will fit neatly into the 18" monkeyrail with the cut down area joining the top evenly. As the Jibboom sits now on your model, it is just slightly below the joint of the monkeyrail. When your Bowsprit is scaled to 34" this should move your Jibboom up properly to match with the top of the monkeyrail, as seen in this 1911 Seattle Bow close up.

Edited August 6, 2021 by ClipperFan
additional information

[rwiederrich]

Here is my problem I am one 6 inch scale off in my diameter of the bow spread. A total of 6 inches at scale that is significant.

 

I think I took my measurements before I had laid the final top rail trim.    
 

No wonder.     Plus, I’m going to upscale my banding material as well.  
 

It will be a far better end result.  Thanks for the advice and refresher data input.

Notice the difference in this pic.

 

Rob

Edited August 6, 2021 by rwiederrich

[ClipperFan]

56 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Here is my problem I am one 6 inch scale off in my diameter of the bow spread. A total of 6 inches at scale that is significant.

 

I think I took my measurements before I had laid the final top rail trim.    
 

No wonder.     Plus, I’m going to upscale my banding material as well.  
 

It will be a far better end result.  Thanks for the advice and refresher data input.

Notice the difference in this pic.

 

Rob

Rob, great catch to see that relatively slim detail. Initially I was so impressed with the overall look that I completely missed it. In the future, if you'd like me to 'backstop' your calculations (you or Vlad) I would gladly give you the most accurate calculations I can generate. As carpenters always say "measure twice, cut once." Of course, this is in no way my attempt to interfere in any way on either of your plans but only to offer my assistance.

[rwiederrich]

Sure thing Rich

 

here is the beginning of the replacement sprit.

[ClipperFan]

46 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Sure thing Rich

 

here is the beginning of the replacement sprit.

Rob, when looking at your proposed new spar I immediately see a scale problem, which I hope my observations can help you identify and correct. The flattening of the top part of the Bowsprit on Glory is about 18" (3/16ths") from the top of the main bulwark Rail, then Band 1 is about 1' (1/8th") of that distance. Your new spar doesn't allow for that, so where you've sketched your first band is too close scale wise. From your measurements, we know that 7 bands are 3' (3/8ths") apart, center to center, it looks like the distance from the center of band 7 to inside the Cap is 18". The Cap itself also appears to be 18" since it seems to match the distance from band 7. That would make your Bowsprit a minimum of 3 3/16ths" to comfortably include a mounting point for the Cap. You might want to sketch out the entire Bowsprit on paper, leaving extra length to accomodate the entrance into the Bow. I hope this helps.

[rwiederrich]

Working on the bowsprit cap I my cut it from one piece of wood , these iron straps are self adhesive aluminum foil. 

[ClipperFan]

16 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, when looking at your proposed new spar I immediately see a scale problem, which I hope my observations can help you identify and correct. The flattening of the top part of the Bowsprit on Glory is about 18" (3/16ths") from the top of the main bulwark Rail, then Band 1 is about 1' (1/8th") of that distance. Your new spar doesn't allow for that, so where you've sketched your first band is too close scale wise. From your measurements, we know that 7 bands are 3' (3/8ths") apart, center to center, it looks like the distance from the center of band 7 to inside the Cap is 18". The Cap itself also appears to be 18" since it seems to match the distance from band 7. That would make your Bowsprit a minimum of 3 3/16ths" to comfortably include a mounting point for the Cap. You might want to sketch out the entire Bowsprit on paper, leaving extra length to accomodate the entrance into the Bow. I hope this helps.

 

[rwiederrich]

42 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

 

Rich……sorry, but you’re seeing the sprit while it was just resting there, it dropped and was not in the right place.   I’ve since made some adjustments.  Thanks bro

[ClipperFan]

Rob, no problem. Meanwhile I'm just amazed at your single piece Bowsprit Cap!

[BANYAN]

You're a fast worker Rob, you will have caught me up soon and I am 5 years in    Your model is looking great, very elegant and nicely finished.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[rwiederrich]

3 hours ago, BANYAN said:

You're a fast worker Rob, you will have caught me up soon and I am 5 years in    Your model is looking great, very elegant and nicely finished.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Thanks Pat…….but your build outclasses mine by miles.   Your fit and finish is stellar 

[rwiederrich]

Well I worked on the bowsprit this morning and did some finalizing and repairing and I think I’m pretty close the attachment needs to be modified a bit but I think it’s looking pretty good.

Edited August 7, 2021 by rwiederrich

[rwiederrich]

Now all I need to do is add the Martingale mounting’s and all the rings to support the stays and the jacks stays and all the headgear.

[ClipperFan]

Rob this is definitely an improvement for the Bowsprit dimension. I'm going to highlight another fascinating feature of the inner Jibboom, which you might like to incorporate too (or not, if it's too much of a bother).  Like the Bowsprit below, the Jibboom transitions from round to oblong a few feet before it enters the corresponding rectangular slit in the monkeyrail Bulwarks.

I think we discussed this finding a few months back. Note the arrow shaped shadow at band 3 above Goddess 'Athene's' head? That's where the inner Jibboom is squaring off. In the 1911 Seattle bow close up, it also appears to slant down gradually from that same location. This is tougher to see since it's hidden by the jib sails resting on it. Since the monkeyrail height is 18" and this spar is at least 19" maybe even 20" that would be necessary to accomodate the smaller opening. 

Edited August 7, 2021 by ClipperFan
Grammar correction

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

Well I worked on the bowsprit this morning and did some finalizing and repairing and I think I’m pretty close the attachment needs to be modified a bit but I think it’s looking pretty good.Well I worked on the bowsprit this morning and did some finalizing and repairing and I think I’m pretty close the attachment needs to be modified a bit but I think it’s looking pretty good.

very pretty Rob. 

[rwiederrich]

5 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob this is definitely an improvement for the Bowsprit dimension. I'm going to highlight another fascinating feature of the inner Jibboom, which you might like to incorporate too (or not, if it's too much of a bother).  Like the Bowsprit below, the Jibboom transitions from round to oblong a few feet before it enters the corresponding rectangular slit in the monkeyrail Bulwarks.

I think we discussed this finding a few months back. Note the arrow shaped shadow at band 3 above Goddess 'Athene's' head? That's where the inner Jibboom is squaring off. In the 1911 Seattle bow close up, it also appears to slant down gradually from that same location. This is tougher to see since it's hidden by the jib sails resting on it. Since the monkeyrail height is 18" and this spar is at least 19" maybe even 20" that would be necessary to accomodate the smaller opening. 

Apparently the jibboom not only tapers down from its junction point at the bowsprit But apparently Narrows on either side as well and turns into more of an oblong square shape than round. I did make that slight adjustment but apparently I didn’t make it strong enough I’m not sure if it’s worth tearing everything up to do that replacement I’ll have to think about it.  
 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

Setting the bowsprit/jibboom.  She kind looks like the SanPedro image……

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

Apparently the jibboom not only tapers down from its junction point at the bowsprit But apparently Narrows on either side as well and turns into more of an oblong square shape than round. I did make that slight adjustment but apparently I didn’t make it strong enough I’m not sure if it’s worth tearing everything up to do that replacement I’ll have to think about it.  
 

Rob

Rob, I seriously doubt anyone will notice it. Only annoying perfectionists like myself, which fortunately isn't a large percent of the population!

Meanwhile, though I bet most Sailing Ships would have something similar.  It makes sense not to have either spar able to rotate in strong winds or heavy seas.