Glory of the Seas medium clipper 1869 - FINISHED - by rwiederrich - 1/96

[MrBlueJacket]

13 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

 This sketch is precisely to 1:72nd scale (1" = 8').

Math correction here: 1:72 is 1" = 6'

 

1"=8' is 1/8"=1' equals 1:96

[ClipperFan]

19 minutes ago, MrBlueJacket said:

Math correction here: 1:72 is 1" = 6'

 

1"=8' is 1/8"=1' equals 1:96

MrBlueJacket you are absolutely correct. I mistakenly referred to Vladimir's 1:72nd scale when I meant to say Rob's 1:96th scale. The drawing has been painstakenly accurately done to 1"=8' or as you more correctly said it 1/8th" = 1' both to 1:96th scale. Thanks for catching my mistake so I can correct the record.

As mentioned this is still very much a work in progress. I wanted to share my process to get feedback from the group. When finished it will include a legend indicating the 1:96 scale nature of the drawing, plus call outs in reference to every detail where it was developed from in support of the accuracy of the final plan. I'm still debating whether to finish it in pen since the pencil is so difficult to see too.

Edited July 27, 2021 by ClipperFan
additional information

[rwiederrich]

Spent a bit of time working on the plates......here are some beginning images.

[rwiederrich]

Progressing....

[rwiederrich]

I ran out of the left overs so I went and made some more for this side.......long and pressed ready to go.

[rwiederrich]

And a bit more progress.....

[ClipperFan]

Rob, this part of your construction process is just so lovely to observe. The dramatic contrast of shiny copper plating with black upper hull has always looked so beautiful to me. Excellent work! Since you usually proceed at warp speed, it won't be a long wait to see finished results too!

[ClipperFan]

In my continuing pursuit to finally get an exhaustively accurate lines plan of "GLORY of the SEAS" it has been a particular focus not to repeat the same mistakes which resulted in the less than successful first attempt at a large scale drawing.

Since Vladimir and I had such a successful collaboration at realizing practically all of Glory's Hull dimensions, I decided to compare his computer drafted print with my own work in progress. Since both Bow & Stern still seem not quite right, images of both were included too. 

This image is decidedly difficult to see. Due to extreme length of over 3' including Bowsprit, I had to stand on my bed & shoot it with my cell phone from my 6' height. Between balancing on a mattress and trying to concentrate on keeping all elements square to the tiny viewfinder, this was the best result I could get.

Not surprisingly when I looked at my sketch & Vladimir's document, it became rapidly clear that our Hulls don't match at all. 

So it's back to the "drawing board" as I struggle to match as exactly as possible my Hull with the Vladimir print (which to me, other than some rough spots Bow & Stern, represents the closest we've gotten to Glory's true Hull form).

Besides which I also caught some inaccuracies with the calculation of 250' between perpendiculars. I originally thought the entire roughly 10' difference between 240'2" Keel & 250' length was all part of the Bow. I was wrong. When I looked at the "Flying Fish" draft taken from Sweden, I realized my mistake. A small section of the upper Main Deck projects beyond the Stern Rudder. The Rudder also isn't totally verticle, it cants slightly inward. Correcting these oversights resulted in a slightly more verticle Stem below the waterline. 

As can be seen by the Bow photo, my Cutwater still is too "beaky" in comparison. The actual Prow is more graceful.

Finally the Stern rises just a little too high and its shape still doesn't quite match the more lithe one in the photo. The relentless pursuit of perfection continues 

[rwiederrich]

7 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, this part of your construction process is just so lovely to observe. The dramatic contrast of shiny copper plating with black upper hull has always looked so beautiful to me. Excellent work! Since you usually proceed at warp speed, it won't be a long wait to see finished results too!

Rich...I got an email from Mike and he tells me that he received several images of a *Model* of Glory of her partially painted bow and one of her compared to the launching photograph of Her.     Are those images of my version?  He sent them along to Ron Haug for analysis and comparison.  Hoping to see if any further refinement to his drawings can be produced.....I'm guessing.

 

Do you know about this?  I think you mentioned sending him images...but not sure.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

Rob, I made a suggestion that Mike should see the amazing work you're doing on Glory's Hull but I personally haven't sent him anything. If it is yours, that's a very good thing because, as I've repeatedly said, your 1:96th scale model and Vladimir's 1:72nd scale version are currently the two most accurate reproductions of "GLORY of the SEAS" I have ever seen. I hope Ron Haug is really open to reassessing his version because it looks nothing at all like Vladimir's excellent computer profile. 

I shared my most recent effort in comparison to Vladimir's and immediately recognized that my sheer was nothing like his. I've completely revised my plans and they're finally starting to look more like Glory herself. I actually traced her Bow, which almost exactly matched my sketch but was a little sleeker. I've also lowered the height of her Stern which now matches the angle more like the Stern section. The Stern now looks very similar to the photo which looks more graceful now. Her outer railing is also slightly higher than I first thought, so that will allow me to do a better job illustrating them. 

Now that I'm feeling improved, other than still very weak, I'm racing to get this done properly "Shipshape & Bristol Fashion."

[BANYAN]

That looks really good Rob, and you work so quickly with the plating.  That would take me a couple of weeks.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[rwiederrich]

Spent some time working in the shop and adding more plates.

 

Here is a progression session.  Still have a bit more work to do till I'm finished on this side.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

I can't wait to mask the copper off and paint it with the metallic color for the muntz color....I really dislike the glare of shiny copper.

 

More to follow.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

Spent a bit of time working in the shop and I finished up the starboard side and I masked it off in prep for painting.

Here is the paint I use to create it into weathered muntz metal.

[rwiederrich]

I had to make a new batch of embossed strips.

[rwiederrich]

And off to the port side...

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

Once I am finished coppering I will mask and paint the plates...once done I will then apply a dull coat to the entire hull(after I add the chainplates and channels).  I have more weathering before I seal it all up.

 

Thanks for peekin in.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

On 7/28/2021 at 7:28 PM, ClipperFan said:

Rob, I made a suggestion that Mike should see the amazing work you're doing on Glory's Hull but I personally haven't sent him anything. If it is yours, that's a very good thing because, as I've repeatedly said, your 1:96th scale model and Vladimir's 1:72nd scale version are currently the two most accurate reproductions of "GLORY of the SEAS" I have ever seen. I hope Ron Haug is really open to reassessing his version because it looks nothing at all like Vladimir's excellent computer profile. 

I shared my most recent effort in comparison to Vladimir's and immediately recognized that my sheer was nothing like his. I've completely revised my plans and they're finally starting to look more like Glory herself. I actually traced her Bow, which almost exactly matched my sketch but was a little sleeker. I've also lowered the height of her Stern which now matches the angle more like the Stern section. The Stern now looks very similar to the photo which looks more graceful now. Her outer railing is also slightly higher than I first thought, so that will allow me to do a better job illustrating them. 

Now that I'm feeling improved, other than still very weak, I'm racing to get this done properly "Shipshape & Bristol Fashion."

Rob, how's that old saying go? "Ach, The Haggis is in the fire for sure nae!" Turns out, I was copied on your most recent email from Mike. I took the opportunity to diplomatically say that Ron Haug's latest interpretation of Glory being a throw back to McKay's 1830's Packet Ships is in complete disagreement with the discovery I made that Glory's ratios in 2 important categories matched "Flying Fish almost exactly, with Glory having a 2' sleeker LOA ratio. 

I explained how you and Vladimir are creating 2 of the most accurate Glory models ever seen before, using laser cut bulkheads created from a profile developed by our months of collaborative efforts. I offered to send Mike progress photos, should he wish.

Finally I told him if he would like, I can send him a copy of my 1:96 scale sketch of Glory's Hull which he could then share with Ron. We'll see what develops... 

 

**July 28th 2021** EXCITING UPDATE!

 

In his most recent email Michael Mjelde requested I send him a copy of my 1:96th scale "GLORY of the SEAS" ship's lines drawing once completed. Finally it will be possible to have at least an opportunity to share what we've all developed over the past year. For me personally it could be the culmination of a previously inconceivable 12 year journey to correct a wrong made to Donald McKay's beautiful final Clipper.

I owe it all to you Rob, in your own dogged determination to finally realize an accurate recreation of "GLORY of the SEAS!" That drive of yours brought myself, Vladimir and many others to join your vision. Ultimately that drew in Arina "TheAuthorsDaughter" who then got her dad, the great author Michael Mejelde involved. From the marvelous crystal clear photos he had gathered over 40 years ago, we have had the rare opportunity to visually inspect practically every inch of Glory. Vladimir lent his amazing computer talent and now we have not one but two beautiful models both being built simultaneously, on different continents, no less. These are heady days indeed!

Edited July 30, 2021 by ClipperFan
additional information

[ClipperFan]

***Update Again!!!! ****

 

Mike sent another email to Rob and I asking to see progress on both models. With Vladimir's permission, I would like to send his computer profile and laser cut bulkheads developed from them. 

Then I want to send progress pics which compare your models in the same positions as the many rare photos we've been sent. 

Mike already mailed to Ron Haug the two photos of someone's model in progress with comparisons to Glory in the same position. Maybe Arina shared those with Mike? If so, it's most likely Rob's model. 

I'm hoping by sharing these images of 2 highly accurate Glory models with Mike who plans to mail them to Ron Haug, he will convince Ron to radically rethink his own approach to his vision of Glory being a "throw back to McKay's 1830s Packet Ships". 

So guys, if you want to do some additional real sharp "beauty shots" that would be very much appreciated!

[ClipperFan]

1 minute ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Its All permited fór sure Rich though im sure bulkheads need slight revision after Sanding torture we had to withstand with Rob. Besides i Stilo think from observation Robs hull IS truer and sleeker than mine. I Will develop this observation later. Not sure if bulkheads are the wisest Choice...Well...

 

Vladimir, in any pilot project like this, there are bound to be challenges along the way. I think your idea of getting laser cut bulkheads patterned after Model Expo's "Flying Fish" was and still is brilliant! Thanks in large part to your final computer profile, I was able to see why my drawings were so "barge like" in comparison. My sheer was way off. Too flat. While it's much closer and way more accurate now, I still haven't quite been able to match my lines with your graceful sheer. It may be the fact that you used ratios and I'm doing old fashioned measurements. I'm not exactly sure.

Meanwhile, if you can post some real nice beauty shots which align with images Mike's shared with us, that would be great!

[ClipperFan]

8 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Once I am finished coppering I will mask and paint the plates...once done I will then apply a dull coat to the entire hull(after I add the chainplates and channels).  I have more weathering before I seal it all up.

 

Thanks for peekin in.

 

Rob

Rob, if you only knew what a delight it is to see your rapid progress. After seeing the glorious golden hue of real Muntz metal, I agree copper itself looks garish in comparison. It will be so nice to see that replicated on your "GLORY of the SEAS".

By the way, out of curiosity, how did you determine that shade of Rustoleum would recreate Muntz metal? That's amazing!

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

 

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, in any pilot project like this, there are bound to be challenges along the way. I think your idea of getting laser cut bulkheads patterned after Model Expo's "Flying Fish" was and still is brilliant! Thanks in large part to your final computer profile, I was able to see why my drawings were so "barge like" in comparison. My sheer was way off. Too flat. While it's much closer and way more accurate now, I still haven't quite been able to match my lines with your graceful sheer. It may be the fact that you used ratios and I'm doing old fashioned measurements. I'm not exactly sure.

Meanwhile, if you can post some real nice beauty shots which align with images Mike's shared with us, that would be great!

Rich if there IS one thing im proud of IS the sheerline. Just Remember IT was you and Rob who always navifatede to IT. Its tried that IS IS far easier shape awesome line Down on computer program. I Remember particuparly that It woudnt have Been possible to shape IT on model withput laser cut. Im sure if IT. And even with that It was quite challenging to set IT. I just fibished one side today. You Can see that gracious sheer profile from the pictures quite nicely. And you Can rejoice All effort starijg  at whole sa de of magnificent profile or Boat itself. Im just in awe seing that deep deep belly materialised front of me starting and ending with Elegant clipper Lines. I think we Can see we Did IT !  i hope Rob wont mind sharing pics here as pissing on his parade i Will remove them and púť to mine just tried to photo IT from every angle possible even famous photo before launch its so so much reminiscent to me even without rails ...i moved photos to my thread. V. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Vladimir_Wairoa
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[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, if you only knew what a delight it is to see your rapid progress. After seeing the glorious golden hue of real Muntz metal, I agree copper itself looks garish in comparison. It will be so nice to see that replicated on your "GLORY of the SEAS".

By the way, out of curiosity, how did you determine that shade of Rustoleum would recreate Muntz metal? That's amazing!

This particular color of paint IMV replicates weathered muntz......NOT......brand new brassy muntz that has not seen water or wear.

 

I know that Vlad is attempting to build his model as clean and flawless as he can...representing a new Glory, as one might expect to see when she came off the *line*.

 

That is not my way.  I prefer weathering...it represents IMV a more accurate representation of the subject.  Someone once said that a modeler who weathers his model is after effect...while a modeler who models clean spotless models is showing off their skill and prowess as a modeler.

 

Though this notion appears to be on line...IMV it takes more skill to accurately weather a model and not over due it then to simply leave it un touched in an out of the box state.

 

This particular paint is lightly painted on and along with the shinny copper...blends to produce a convincing aged, browning, oxidized muntz metal.

 

It's all perspective anyway.

 

A couple of examples using this technique...changing copper into muntz.   And what real old weathered muntz looked like on Cutty Sark

Edited July 30, 2021 by rwiederrich

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

41 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

This particular color of paint IMV replicates weathered muntz......NOT......brand new brassy muntz that has not seen water or wear.

 

I know that Vlad is attempting to build his model as clean and flawless as he can...representing a new Glory, as one might expect to see when she came off the *line*.

 

That is not my way.  I prefer weathering...it represents IMV a more accurate representation of the subject.  Someone once said that a modeler who weathers his model is after effect...while a modeler who models clean spotless models is showing off their skill and prowess as a modeler.

 

Though this notion appears to be on line...IMV it takes more skill to accurately weather a model and not over due it then to simply leave it un touched in an out of the box state.

 

This particular paint is lightly painted on and along with the shinny copper...blends to produce a convincing aged, browning, oxidized muntz metal.

 

It's all perspective anyway.

 

A couple of examples using this technique...changing copper into muntz.   And what real old weathered muntz looked like on Cutty Sark

Rob I wholeagree that replicating usage is tougher than clean aproach. Therefore i would never attempt it. abut I already learnt from you - finished quickly dirt whats under copper line  

[ClipperFan]

Rob while I completely agree with your stance about weathering, which is how I usually made my models as a youth, I also think it would be quite interesting to see an alternate version of "GLORY of the SEAS" as she was originally launched in 1869, all shiny and new. Of course such decisions remain with the professional modelers. I'll be content to remain in the cheering section for now.

[ClipperFan]

Another interesting observation is that weathered Muntz turns dirty brown instead of light green (like the Statue of Liberty).

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  'So very fascinating, I tip my hat.  Is copper tape stock available in places like Hobby Lobby?  Did you use a fine watch gear to make the tiny dimpling?

[ClipperFan]

55 minutes ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  'So very fascinating, I tip my hat.  Is copper tape stock available in places like Hobby Lobby?  Did you use a fine watch gear to make the tiny dimpling?

Snug Harbor Johnny

I remember Rob going into great detail about his copper plating process in his "Great Republic" build. Since that is a huge file to search thru, I found this fascinating link on a popular discussion of creating realistic, long lasting copper sheathing. I hope this answers your questions: 

 

 

[rwiederrich]

3 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

I also think it would be quite interesting to see an alternate version of "GLORY of the SEAS" as she was originally launched in 1869, all shiny and new.

My original Revell Conversion version was built to those specs.  However,  I'm building her as she appears in that San Francisco image...with all the mods to her houses and rigging.  She was NOT shinny and new at that point.  So to make her so would be an inaccurate representation of her at that point.

 

If one wishes to make her all shinny and new in her later configurations....they would be taking extreme artistic license in doing so.  That is my view anyway.  If we want to be accurate in one aspect....that needs to transcend into her esthetics as well.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

4 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Another interesting observation is that weathered Muntz turns dirty brown instead of light green (like the Statue of Liberty).

Even that famous painting of her you love...depicts her plates as weathered brown........take another close look.

 

Rob