Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted

Does anyone know what these “hooks” are called, and what their use is? I’ve noticed them a lot on Roman ship depictions of around the 1st-3rd century. They only seem to appear on ships with spirit sails, and in some depictions there is a rope or even a pulley system tying it to the spirit-mast. I can’t find any info on them online or in the books about Roman ships I have, and I’ve never seen them depicted in any reconstructions.

 

47A7FC54-2CEB-42C5-83D1-58AB49769C32.jpeg.f71842da42e029c72d2341c774514039.jpeg6D63E3D7-C912-45F0-8209-482C31BCE83A.thumb.jpeg.2ef2dbcabf73b646ad5c6dc1bc7beed7.jpegA03014D4-C915-4836-BD60-9F329F98D4CE.jpeg.03b69de51dad926c43ff64809d3d2a50.jpegB9DD90AF-BAFE-4F9C-8786-59869791D58C.jpeg.6ef581a7c12464c1beb7b56e889c3c37.jpeg5E37B55D-7D95-44B1-A8F5-2727E6C3AC7C.jpeg.437d077005fd2b834d18085a92cb6863.jpeg277279AC-E9E9-4B6D-A0E1-386B96E9B1E0.jpeg.4462f0cd87da47cc031e1bf6fa30f334.jpeg 

Alberto - "Binho"

 

Current Build: Dusek 1:72 Scale Longship

Digital Shipyard: Viking-era ships and boats

 

3D Art: Artstation, Sketchfab

Posted

Hi. Am not any expert, but what I know, on Roman warships there were often moveable bridges on the prove used for "aboardage"  - after the ship hit the enemy, the bridge was lowered (it had some kind of iron hooks that would bite to the enemy ship's deck) so the infantry could board the ship. Romans were not so keen sailors and when possible, to fight as on the land was preferred.

Check this. Could this be that strange thing, of course, simplified by the artist?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvus_(boarding_device)

"A smooth sea never made a skilled sailor."

 

Completed: Smuggler

 

 

 

Posted

Way out of my comfort zone but could it be a depiction of some sort of loading tackle , like later cargo vessels used the main or fore yards to sway cargo aboard?

Current builds;

 Henry Ramey Upcher 1:25

Providence whaleboat- 1:25     HMS Winchelsea 1764 1:48 

Completed:

HM Cutter Sherbourne- 1:64- finished    Triton cross section scratch- 1:60 - finished 

Non ship:  SBD-3 Dauntless 1:48 Hasegawa -FINISHED

 

 

Posted

Yeah, I don't think it's a "corvus" as it's only on cargo vessels. I think loading tackle might be a good possibility.

 

As there is always a rope attached to it. could it be some sort of tensioner/stay for the spirit-mast? The reliefs seem to show that the forestay is tied to the base of the spirit-mast, so perhaps to keep the spirit-mast from being pulled upwards it needed it's own stay? Is there anything like that on later ships? I'm curious what material it is made of, and how it even attaches to the stem. Is it attached to the side? Is it socketed in to it?

 

EDIT: Or maybe a proto-head/beak or proto-bowspirit? Bonino in Navi mercantili e barche di età romana does mention it in passing actually, and he calls it a "sort of bowspirit". He doesn't really discuss it depth though, or try to explain the strange shape they have on the reliefs.

Alberto - "Binho"

 

Current Build: Dusek 1:72 Scale Longship

Digital Shipyard: Viking-era ships and boats

 

3D Art: Artstation, Sketchfab

Posted

It is always associated with a spar and an attached yard and sail jutting out over the bow.

Do a mock up and determine what sort of staying lines and retaining structure is needed to make this sail functional.

Determine if it would require an active human presence at the fore end to handle the sail. 

This could clear up the function and just how large and strong it would have to be.  It is near impossible to forget how it all evolved over the next 1500 years but the bare minimum is likely to be close.

NRG member 50 years

 

Current:  

NMS

HMS Ajax 1767 - 74-gun 3rd rate - 1:192 POF exploration - works but too intense -no margin for error

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - POF Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - POF Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner - POF framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  - POF timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  - POF timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner - POF timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835 packet hull USN ship - POF timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  - POF timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - POF framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

I will eventually be doing a 3D model, but was trying to figure out what it was before I started. Completely accidentally, while researching something else, I found some discussion on these "hooks" - In this article about the ships on the mosaic of Hercules Bibax from Rimini, Dell'Amico discusses the possibility that they are some sort of movable gangway or fender, both which were originally proposed by L. Basch in Le musée imaginaire de la marine antique. It's as good a guess as any, and it makes some sense. This depiction of a lenunculus (essentially a towed river barge/skiff which brought goods from Ostia and Portus up the Tiber in to Rome, also known as a codicaria) shows a gangway in a similar position, being used to unload a larger merchantman.

 

https://www.ostia-foundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/0448aa-Ostia-Piazzale-delle-Corporazioni-Station-25-linke-Seite-2016-B.jpg

Alberto - "Binho"

 

Current Build: Dusek 1:72 Scale Longship

Digital Shipyard: Viking-era ships and boats

 

3D Art: Artstation, Sketchfab

Posted

I agree with the hypotesys of a movable gangway.

There various images where the loading of goods is made using this lowered gangway.

In that way it is possible to let the bow of the ship reach a shore not provided with a dock, and load the goods.

The sailing technology was not so evolved during the roman period, so the sails were simple squared sails, without improvements. 

The Roman ships were unable to sail upwind.

alle-origini-della-costruzione-navale-68-638.jpg.6c358b00359903a6f0669ab79e7ff6a5.jpg

    Done:          Venetian Polacre http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/7290-venetian-polacre-by-cristiano-sec-xviii-from-original-drawings/

                              Halifax  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/844-halifax/

                              Ranger  https://modelshipworld.com/gallery/album/2175-ranger-revenue-cutter-by-corel/   

                              HM Bark Endeavour (Corel kit heavily kitbashed) : http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/125-hmbark-endeavour-corel-kit-bashed/                                              

 

                             Venetian Galleon (from scratch) - Pirate Junk - Sicilian Speronara (from scratch)

On the shelf (still packed):     Artesania Le Hussard....

Posted
On 9/30/2020 at 12:56 PM, Cristiano said:

In that way it is possible to let the bow of the ship reach a shore not provided with a dock, and load the goods.

 

The Romans had docks, to be sure. They had a huge inland port near Rome to serve as the terminus of a canal from the main port of Ostia where large amounts of cargo were offloaded. The limitation in the Mediterranean, however, was one of suitable dock space in harbors. Because it was possible to "parallel park" a larger number of vessels than to tie them to the side of a quay or dock, cargo was handled across the bow or stern of the vessels "parked parallel," instead of from midships as would be the case if the vessel was tied alongside. Hence the "gang planks" which are common in the area even to this day.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...