Is my enamel paint borked? - HELP, please!

[CTYankee]

Because I was practicing my painting technique quite a bit (and using too much paint in the bringing) I burned through my 15mL bottle of True North primer (the brand that Blue Jacket sells) halfway through my model.

 

I looked for enamel primer (in bottles not spray) everywhere and could find it... anyone know why? I finally bought some model master primer off of Amazon. Maybe my first mistake.

 

When trying to mix it I notice that there are white swirls within the grey primer (see picture below). I should have stopped there and asked you fine folks but I continued on (my second mistake). Adding some thinner seems to make it worse (second picture). BTW- I am using Testors Thinner with the Model Master Primer.

 

I didn't test it anywhere before committing it to my model (my next mistake), and after 96 hours I think it is still not cured. My best indication is that when I sand the coat I get 'pebbles' on my paper.

 

Is this paint totally borked? Whats the best way to recover my project? Sand it all off?

 

For those of you who are advocates of Acrylic paint- I hear you. My reason for using enamel is that it is included in the kit, and as this is a beginner kit, I am trying to have my build-log be something someone can follow without buying extra stuff, except a few nicer brushes.

 

 

 

 

[druxey]

Borked? What a lovely word for a bad situation. Yes, if the paint has not dried after several days, it's definitely borked, shot, dead - whatever you want to call it. Perhaps you can retrieve the situation using  solvent or paint stripper to get the mess off your model. Experiment ofn a small area first, though. The least aggressive solvent that will move it is the best.

 

Is there a reason you would not use a universal spray primer?

[CTYankee]

@druxey, the reason I have been trying to stick with brushed paints is that I wanted to complete the project with only the tools provide in the kit; to make it accessible to any beginner, like myself. Once I had to go buy new paint I should have probably pivoted.

 

What is universal primer, exactly? which one would you recommend? I imagine it can we sprayed over exiting enamel primer that is already there and that you could put enamel on top of it?

 

Thanks for your help!

[mtaylor]

If you can only find the primer/paint in spray cans but want to brush it on, there is a method called "decanting"  or "decant".  I'm not sure how to do this but many of plastic experts do it all the time.   Maybe Googling will give you some idea on how to do it.

[Louie da fly]

I don't know much about all this but it seems to me that painting over the existing mess would be a very bad idea - it would be far better to remove it and start again.

[druxey]

Yes, you need to get rid of what is on the model first or it will become a worse mess.

[CTYankee]

@Louie da fly good point. I was actually referring to painting over the first coat of the other primer which has cured nicely. 

[Louie da fly]

I was hoping that was what you meant, but better to be safe than sorry.

[CTYankee]

Thanks for all of the guidance. This forum is so wonderful- people of all different skill sets helping each other out. 
 

There’s  a ton of junk on the internet these days but this is just the top of the top. 

[Louie da fly]

9 hours ago, CTYankee said:

There’s  a ton of junk on the internet these days but this is just the top of the top. 

I agree. 

[CTYankee]

I think I'm jinxed...

 

I couldn't find any crushable enamel primer anywhere so I transitioned to Testors Spray Primer. I removed all the old paint using thinner, then acetone. This left a layer of the original primer that was really well cured. So I didn't remove that.

 

I then sprayed the boat. In this spray some of the surfaces were new and thus virgin wood, and some of them were previously painted but down to bare wood (with a slight tint to them where the pain sunk in, I think) and she had the original well cured primer.

 

The instructions state: recoat within 30 minutes or after 48 ours to prevent wrinkling (is that 'orange peel'?), so thats what I did. One light coat, waited unit it looked dry, another, waited, then another.

 

I waited 48 Hours to find the paint still doesn't sand well- gums up the paper. I've now waited about a week, same situation- better than before but still not great.

 

What do you all think I did wrong? I didn't wait long enough? Put it on too thick.?

 

BTW- its been ~90 degrees and pretty dry (~50%RH) here in San Jose.

 

Tagging some friends from my other paint thread (https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25522-iso-enamel-tips-for-beginners/) so y'all see this and can weight in: @Bob Cleek @pwog @Dr PR @Louie da fly @druxey @mtaylor

[Louie da fly]

6 hours ago, CTYankee said:

What do you all think I did wrong? I didn't wait long enough? Put it on too thick.?

 

Both of those are possibilities. The only thing I can think of is to do some testing on a piece of scrap - try waiting different lengths of time between coats, try thinner coats - see if it has any effect. If your temperatures are in the 90's there shouldn't be any problem with "extended" waiting times because of temperature, so you can probably dismiss that one as a factor.

 

Other than that, I'm stumped. Maybe something wrong with the paint itself? (I'm assuming the primer and the paint are compatible?)

 

Paint's not my strong point. Maybe others can help more.

[Bob Cleek]

6 hours ago, CTYankee said:

I think I'm jinxed...

 

I couldn't find any crushable enamel primer anywhere so I transitioned to Testors Spray Primer. I removed all the old paint using thinner, then acetone. This left a layer of the original primer that was really well cured. So I didn't remove that.

 

I then sprayed the boat. In this spray some of the surfaces were new and thus virgin wood, and some of them were previously painted but down to bare wood (with a slight tint to them where the pain sunk in, I think) and she had the original well cured primer.

 

The instructions state: recoat within 30 minutes or after 48 ours to prevent wrinkling (is that 'orange peel'?), so thats what I did. One light coat, waited unit it looked dry, another, waited, then another.

 

I waited 48 Hours to find the paint still doesn't sand well- gums up the paper. I've now waited about a week, same situation- better than before but still not great.

 

What do you all think I did wrong? I didn't wait long enough? Put it on too thick.?

 

BTW- its been ~90 degrees and pretty dry (~50%RH) here in San Jose.

 

Tagging some friends from my other paint thread (https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25522-iso-enamel-tips-for-beginners/) so y'all see this and can weight in: @Bob Cleek @pwog @Dr PR @Louie da fly @druxey @mtaylor

 

"What do you all think I did wrong? I didn't wait long enough? Put it on too thick.?" 

 

Or a combination of the two. Enamel paint hardens 1. as the volatile solvents (thinners) evaporate and 2. as the oils (binders) polymerize. The solvents evaporate "from the top down," with the solvent closest to the surface exposed to the air evaporating first. Thus, a coat can "skin over" with the solvents evaporating and be dry to the touch, but, particularly when a coat is thick, the paint below the skinned over surface won't have completely cured. The skinned surface slows the rate of solvent evaporation, as well, so when you start to sand through the "skin," you run into a real mess sanding. If you put another thick coat on top of a coat that hasn't fully dried, it just compounds the problem. When the later coat skins over, the paint surface shrinks, but the lower soft "wet" paint allows the shrinking surface to "slip" because it's soft, so you can get "wrinkling" on the hardened top coat.

 

Testor's enamel is notorious for taking forever to dry. At least that's what I've often heard as well as experienced. It's formulated primarily for use on plastic models and is fairly thick stuff. I expect that most of the "model" paint sold today is made for the plastic model kit builders' market. The wood and metal modelers are decidedly in the minority and a lot of the modelers working with traditional materials mix and condition their own paints from artists' oils or acrylics, anyway. If you seal your wood with thinned shellac which permeates the bare wood (and will dry very fast) , and then do your final finish sanding, you should have a perfectly smooth surface without any sanding dust-loading problems on your sandpaper, which is caused by trying to sand uncured paint. The only reason you'd really require a primer coat would be to get a uniform base color. Real "sanding basecoat" (sometimes called "high build primer") is a paint made with chalk dust added, which gives the paint more solids which cover well and sand very easily. Use that if you have to fill a lot of minute imperfections. It also will cover dark patches well. If you are trying to get a uniform base color, try to prime with a paint that has a lot of solids (pigments) which will cover well. The thinner your coats, the better. 

 

Unfortunately, the lacquers that we used to love are hard to find these days. Frankly, "model" paints really aren't the best option in many instances because they are somewhat "generic" and favor the plastic kit building market, rather than the materials many ship modelers use. You will often find better options in art supply stores, quality paint stores, marine chandleries, and automobile paint supply houses.  Note that  Rust-oleum Paints, which are sold pretty much everywhere, have many different primer options, as well as a good line of quality oil paint in many colors. Your paint store can color Rust-oleum to your specifications while you wait. Rust-oleum enamels can be purchased in pint cans at a relatively reasonable price and are easily thinned with lacquer thinner for airibrushing.

 

Finally, "rattle cans," while perhaps seemingly convenient, really aren't the best option for painting miniatures. There's  a wide range of quality with the nozzles, which are the main determinant of the quality of the finish you can get out of them. There's a world of difference between the control you have with a decent airbrush and what you get with a "rattle can." And, of course, the cost of a "rattle can" is far greater than the cost of the same amount of paint in a regular can.

 

 

[CTYankee]

Thanks Bob and Louie!

[pwog]

Jeez James, I wish I could add something useful here. I’m new to this hobby as well and the painting part is not so straight forward. I’m painting the well deck with primer gray currently. I have two coats on (over the primer coat) and I hope I have enough to finish the model. I believe one more coat will do it for the well deck, then just a few more areas to prime.

 

i don’t dare use spray paint!