US Brig Syren by Redshadowrider - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64 - First wooden ship build

[Redshadowrider]

I am Stumped........  

 

After going over the port and starboard onboard plans for cleats, eye bolts, and split rings, (feels like a thousand times), I am done adding them to the bulwarks.  ……ready to start adding cannon.  I am sure I have missed one or two rings, but I will find out soon. 
 

However, I am stuck and not sure where to look.  I have searched, and have yet to find information on how to begin attaching the lines.  I am trying to begin adding the breach lines first, and on the first cannon, I have yet to find a kind of guide.  I do not know how to use the tools that I got from Micro Mark, nor do I know the process for running the breach lines through those tiny little rings and eye bolts. 

 

All I am looking for is either a thread, site, or place to read up on "how" it is done.  When I look for it, I get a high number of responses, but they are how to build the block lines.  With hooks, I have that figured out in my mind, threading the lines through the eye bolts has me stumped.  I have added the pic for interest....  the breach line bolts on the cannon have been sized to accept the thread, which I have colored using chalk, and beeswax as a sealer.  It's how do I thread the eye bolts as they are already installed.  ⁉️

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Redshadowrider

[Redshadowrider]

It Ain't Purty, yet........     

 

.....but I have got my first (very first) breech line in place.  

 

Newbie Tip:  See that blue tape?....    It's there for a reason.  After losing 2 eyebolts down to the lower deck, I sealed it up.  😄

Newbie Tip 2:  If you are looking for a good source of information on how to run rigging, search on "Threading"    There are a lot of threads to read, and some info on how to resolve.

 

[Redshadowrider]

Quick Question:  I am having trouble finding the size of the thread used to lash the breach line to the rings on the bulwarks.  Can someone answer this?

[Overworked724]

2 hours ago, Redshadowrider said:

Quick Question:  I am having trouble finding the size of the thread used to lash the breach line to the rings on the bulwarks.  Can someone answer this?

I think the best rope available comes from Syren Ship Model Company. I think Chuck is making new rope and now has help. I wouldn’t use thread. You might want to check there….most modeler’s swear by his rope. (Me included…I’m biased though. His rope made all the difference on my Sultana)

[Redshadowrider]

Thanks, I will take a look at it.  I was planning on using what is in the kit, but it will not be a big change since I have just started.

[Redshadowrider]

I Think it is Passable:

 

I did check the Syren Ship model site and the ropes section is under construction.  It appears that the source of their rigging lines is changing.  So, I decided to try with what I have since it is the very first time that I have worked rigging.  Here is the breech line on the first cannon and I think it will pass.  I was very clumsy at first, but as I progressed, I started to get a hang of the rigging line.  It is going to be an adventure to say the least, but I think I can do it now.  I have gained a new respect for those that do this as a hobby....  👍

 

 

[Thukydides]

I don't think I really appreciate the detailed work on rigging I have seen on these forums until I opened up the fittings box for my alert and saw how small all the bits really were.

 

It looks good.

[Redshadowrider]

Second Cannon & Newbie Tip:  

 

I have completed the breech line on the second cannon, and had an idea how to make the sagging lines the same on both sides.  I have colored the line with a couple of colors of pastel chalk (yellow orange and brown) then sealed it with bees wax.  To keep the length on both sides of the cannon, I inserted a long pin through the line on each side under the base.  I let it sit to allow the breech line to keep its shape and then carefully pulled it out.  Both sides sag the same and are the same length.  (I might do the first cannon over, but will wait to see how it looks with all the others.)  My guess is it will fade into the background.

I will now spend my time completing the starboard side and then onto the port.  Unless I find something that really needs posting, I will wait until the starboard breech lines are completed for another update.

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Redshadowrider

[abelson]

 I used Syren tan .025” brown rigging line for the breech ropes and .008” for the seizing. I have been unable to order from the Syren website lately. I think I read somewhere where they're going our of business????

Edited August 10, 2021 by abelson

[abelson]

You've taken the sagging of the breech lines to the nth degree. They look good.

Edited August 10, 2021 by abelson

[Redshadowrider]

Progress is Slow and Tedious:  

 

Unfortunately, my building area is in the garage.  Most of the time it is bearable, but this time of year, it is a sauna.  Indoor temps have been ranging around 95-100, and that doesn't figure in the heat index.  Soooo, I got permission from the Admiral to temporarily do some constructing at the kitchen table.  I have 4 carronades in place and breech lines attached, but have temporarily halted their install.  And on top of that, we visited our first grandson for his 1st birthday, so I took a rest.  

I have started building out the tackles for the carronades, and am doing the wire for the hooks first.  Once that is done, it will be time to bend them in a curve and snip off.  So far, I have done enough for 7 carronades with one left for a single side of the Syren.  It is going well, but drilling the small holes for the hook is a pin vise process.  Any drilling under power ensures that I would probably have a lot of drill dust.  😄

......but it is air conditioned.   

 

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Redshadowrider

[Overworked724]

We all have to occasionally request our Admiral’s permission(s) to maintain quality of life!  👍🏽
 

Nice job negotiating…what did you have to give up in return???  🤔

[Redshadowrider]

1 hour ago, Overworked724 said:

We all have to occasionally request our Admiral’s permission(s) to maintain quality of life!  👍🏽
 

Nice job negotiating…what did you have to give up in return???  🤔

We have been married almost 44 years.   I learned ages ago, that it is best not to ask.  😉

[Redshadowrider]

Hooks & Tackles:  

I have completed the installation and bending of the hooks on each tackle.  I counted enough (64)  to be able to get through all of the carronades.  In fact, just in case, I did 65, but in bending the hook, it "sproinged" off into never never land.  It is possible that it fell right back into my pile of tackles and hooks, but time will tell.  I am either even or 1 extra to complete the rigging of the carronades.  In the pictures, you can see the completed tackles/hooks and also one that shows a small jig I put together for help in rigging each tackle assembly.    Pics are below.....

 

Newbie Tip:  For gluing each tackle block and hook, I used a "glue looper" which is a tool I didn't even know existed.  It is invaluable for gluing in small amounts in a small area.  I recommend it highly.  In the second picture, you can see a mixing cup tipped upside down.  The small shallow cup is formed on the bottom and can be used for holding CA as you work through each tackle.  The glue stays in liquid form until you are ready to fill the looper end.  And it is still clean for mixing epoxy or paint, etc.  later.

 

 

[Redshadowrider]

One Down 71 to Go:😅

 

Got my first blocks and tackle in place on the carronade.  Just 71 more, and I will be done.....uh-huh.   Sorry about the picture quality in the close up.  (I decided to remove the other picture. I thought this would be better.)  It is not that visible without the glaring light and a little distance.  Well back to the kitchen table.  👍

 

OOPS...  For those expert riggers, you may have noticed that the outhaul block is at the back end of the carronade.  Fear not, I noticed this when I went back to continue.  It is now fixed and is attached to the bulwark.  😁

 

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Redshadowrider

[Redshadowrider]

One Down.....    

I don't even want to count how many to go.  This is one frustrating phase on this build.  I will say, that my absence from here is due mainly to not working on the ship for a couple of weeks.  We have had some activities at our flying field that have occupied my time.  Labor Day, yearly invitational with out of state flyers spending 5 days flying and B.S.ing.  And it just won't turn to fall temperatures here.  Now, I am back at it, but I still have miles to go.  

 

Here is my first rigged carronade.  I think it came out ok considering how much detail is in such a small space.  One thing I am going to look into is how to make the coiled rope touch the deck completely.  

 

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Redshadowrider

[abelson]

On 9/19/2021 at 2:48 PM, Redshadowrider said:

One Down.....    

I don't even want to count how many to go.  This is one frustrating phase on this build.  I will say, that my absence from here is due mainly to not working on the ship for a couple of weeks.  We have had some activities at our flying field that have occupied my time.  Labor Day, yearly invitational with out of state flyers spending 5 days flying and B.S.ing.  And it just won't turn to fall temperatures here.  Now, I am back at it, but I still have miles to go.  

 

Here is my first rigged carronade.  I think it came out ok considering how much detail is in such a small space.  One thing I am going to look into is how to make the coiled rope touch the deck completely.  

 

 

Keep up the good work. I found rigging the carronades a particularly arduous task. I lessened the task by eliminating the upper  tackles - after I had completed one carronade I didn't like the look of the upper tackles because the blocks were too close together. I had already made up the blocks and didn't want to re-do them, so I decided to eliminate them all together. It's not authentic, but I'm satisfied with my decision.

[Redshadowrider]

@abelson To be honest, I haven’t worked on the ship for a few weeks now.  This is a good time of the year for flying, and, I have had maintenance chores on several planes that has taken my time.  As the fall progresses, I will get back to work on it and provide updates.

[Overworked724]

Please tell me you haven’t given up on your Syren!  🙏🏻  Merry Christmas and happy flying!!!!

[Captain Vader]

 Goin on two years, I hope all is well....

[Redshadowrider]

Well, I am back going to pick up again where I left off.  My focus has been on my RC flying, and I have been concentrating on that. I have been a club officer, and have been busy with that.

 

 When I got to the cannon rigging, I became very frustrated by how little room I had to work with.  However, the biggest issue was my shaking hands.  I have always had this issue, but with the planes I fly, not in such limited space.

 

Well, I am now going to work my way through it.  I will add some pics soon, particularly one of the tool I constructed to use for rope coils.  
Any way, I am excited to be building  again, and will provide updates.  I am still breathing and have been well….so here I go.

Edited November 19, 2024 by Redshadowrider

[Redshadowrider]

Ok, couple of pics.  They are of the tool I put together to make coiled ropes for deck cannon.  Very simple, 2 pieces of plastic, small nail and wood “handle” for handling…hehe.

[Redshadowrider]

OFF AND RUNNING

Only 57 more to go.  I am working on making the deck coils and have 7 done.  Looking at the new ones, I have decided to replace those already installed.  They look more like they should and better now that I figured out how to make them.  

[Redshadowrider]

Still Struggling with Rope Coils

I am getting through the coils (at a snails pace), but run into the same problem on each.  When I am ready to remove the pin and plastic disks in to release the coil, it pulls the center of the coil and the string unravels from the center out.  I have tried several things, but it has been hit or miss.  I am using a syringe to inject a water glue mix and sometimes it works, but not that well.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2024 by Redshadowrider

[Redshadowrider]

Out of the 3 coils pictured, only 1 came out.  The other 2 uncoiled from the center out when I attempted to take them off of the jig.  I am going to try another method and will provide an update.  At a 3 to 1 average, completion rate, it will take longer than my patience will last.

Edited November 23, 2024 by Redshadowrider

[Redshadowrider]

Finally Success on Flemish Coils!
 

There are 3 pictures below that show how I finally resolved the problem of coils coming apart when removing the jig.  Last round, I was 4 for 4, with all holding their shape and not unraveling. 
1. The first picture shows the parts of the jig.  A mandrel and screw from my dremel tool is put to use. The two disks are Math Counters and are easily found on Amazon.  Please note the center hole and one drilled right beside it on the darker disk.  The coil line is threaded through the offset hole.  Then, the top disk (yellow) is placed on top of the darker disk and  screwed in place.

2. By holding the line in place, the long part of the line is wrapped around the screw to form the coil.  Please note that the yellow disk has 4 holes drilled around the center hole.  These 4 holes allow me to inject water/glue to be injected directly onto the coiled thread.

3.  The completed coil is placed in a block of wood and left to dry.  Once dried, the mandrel and screw are removed, and the coil is gently removed for install on the ship.  You can also see a slot cut into the top disk.  It was another of my test jigs that didn’t work very well.

 

HINT  Using a lighter colored disk on top is the best way to view the line as it is coiled around the mandrel screw.

 

Edited November 29, 2024 by Redshadowrider

[Redshadowrider]

Slowly Making Progress

 

Although a few need to be redone, the new jig (now have 5) has made the process much easier.  So you don’t have to count, I am up to 35 now…. 5 not shown, are on the jigs drying.

 

 

[Redshadowrider]

Still Making Coils

I am up to 42 now… Funny how 18 cannons do not sound like a lot until you start making the rigging.  The new jigs work better than others, but the line still does not stay in place in the center of the coil.  If the center comes loose, it can unravel very easily.  However, I am consistently getting 4 or 5 out the jigs, so I continue.

Edited December 4, 2024 by Redshadowrider

[Dr PR]

I only had six small cannons and pivot gun on my topsail schooner build and that was enough for me. I cannot imagine rigging dozens of cannons as are found on some of the higher rates! I think rigging cannons is my least favorite part of ship model building.

Edited December 25, 2024 by Dr PR

[Redshadowrider]

I hope you are right that this is one of the toughest parts of the build.  I am up to 47 coils using the new jigs.  Unless things change, my next update will be after I complete all of them.  However, for now, a couple of things to be aware of.

 

In the picture, I have the most recent 5 coils drying in the jigs.  I became very frustrated trying to get the completed coil off of the jig.  Mostly it is two items, the single razor is just too thick and not flexible enough to slide under the finished coil. So, I picked up a pack of double edge razor blades.  The double edge blades make it easier to slide under the coil and release it from the counter without causing damage.  And, by only loosely tightening the mandrel screw, it makes the coil line release in the center much easier.

 

Big Hint:  I am pretty sure that I read somewhere to not hold the line real tight when winding it around the jig.  So, I release the line from my grip after each turn so that I don’t put a twist in the coil.  This helps to release the tension that builds up as it is wrapped. It is amazing to watch the line spin releasing the tension.  There is quite a lot in just one turn.

Big Hint 2:  as I have indicated, the biggest problem is the coil unraveling from the center out.  I just tried something that may be the fix.  On the last batch, rather than to wait until the coil was completed to inject the glue, I put a drop of glue/water mix in each hole around the center BEFORE I started winding.  This allows the glue to be picked up by the line as it is wound.  So far, it has eliminated the center out problem.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2024 by Redshadowrider