Flying Fish by gak1965 - FINISHED - Model Shipways - 1:96

[mbp521]

George,

 

Always glad to help out. I used a pin vise when I drilled these out. It’s a little tedious, time consuming and tends to cramp the hand after a while, but given its close proximity to the gunwales I didn’t want to risk getting the drill misaligned and drill through the planking.
 

I did forget to mention that I did all this after the comings and decking were in place. It was one of those “aww crap” moments I had not long after the top rail was glued down. 
 

-Brian

[Rick310]

I drilled the holes for the vents in the plank sheer with a pen vice prior to installing the plank sheer.  I then set the vents (which provide air circulation in between the frames to prevent rot) and then added the rails ,sieves Ext.  I remember it being quite a task to get them all lined up correctly at the same height.

[gak1965]

3 hours ago, Rick310 said:

I drilled the holes for the vents in the plank sheer with a pen vice prior to installing the plank sheer.  I then set the vents (which provide air circulation in between the frames to prevent rot) and then added the rails ,sieves Ext.  I remember it being quite a task to get them all lined up correctly at the same height.

 

Now that is looking ahead. I'm obviously well past that point, but if the Discovery has them, I'm definitely going to drill them while the waterway and planksheer are in place but no stanchions or bulwarks.

[rwiederrich]

On 3/12/2021 at 6:25 AM, gak1965 said:

 

The thing that amazes me about McKay and his cohorts in the late 18th through mid 19th century is the degree to which they kind of intuited the kind of engineering concepts we get today through controlled experimentation and/or computer modeling. They were experimenting, but with the full size ship (or bridge, or building, or whatever). By the turn of the century, navies at least were testing models in large tanks (the US Navy built its first basin in 1896, and Robert Massie discusses how the RN designers tested a number of hull models when designing HMS Dreadnought in 1905 - finding a hull form that allowed for adding additional armor while keeping the powerplant and speed the same). But McKay, Palmer, Griffiths, and, heck, Humphreys, Pook, Eads, etc. had none of those advantages and still made great ships.

 

I'm not saying we don't have people like that around now (I'm trying to restrain myself from moving into 'get off of my lawn territory' as I head into my late 50s), but modern engineers can model and have a much higher chance of finding the fatal flaw before they build the thing. Gotta admire their guts though. And McKay in particular, who I think bet the firm at least twice on his design being successful.

Your doing a wonderful job on her.

McKay spent his own money on 3 vessels...the Sovereign of the Seas, the Great Republic and the His last clipper Glory of the Seas.  He knew he has something and he bet his own money on it....  No other ship builder ever did that.

 

Following your build.

 

Rob

[gak1965]

Very, very brief update. I've been busy with work work, home work, and what might be called vaccination logistics and it's kept me away from the building table. As a first step back, I've built the four coamings for the main deck. I like to put them in first and fit the deck planking against them rather than putting the planking down first. It is a bit of a pain, particularly when the coamings and the deck planking don't match exactly (i.e. always), but, it's how I've done all the others and I don't intend to change now.

 

This took way longer than I originally intended, as the smaller coamings are very fiddly - if they are even vaguely off they look really bad - I wound up making multiple pieces for the small ones until they finally looked right. The 1/8 by 1/32 segments are eventually going to be the hatch covers. I cut them so that I could place the 1/32 by 1/32 segments I used to define the edges of the hatch covers in a way that everything would fit properly. Anyway, they are built, sanded and the bottoms are sanded to match the camber of the hull. They aren't painted because I realized I was out of the particular gray I'm using for the bulwarks and coamings. Once they are painted and installed, time for the main deck. 

 

[mbp521]

George, you’re a braver man than me. I always put the planking down then come back with the coamings because I don’t think I could ever get the planks to line up correctly if I didn’t. I’d have gaps all over the place. However it is a better method if you are painting them. It gives a cleaner look without the worry of getting (and cleaning) paint from the deck. 
 

Can’t wait to see what they look like installed. 
 

-Brian

[gak1965]

Thanks for all the encouragement. An update.

 

I fortunately re-checked the sizes. The largest coaming was too wide, so I adjusted, painted and mounted them in the hull.

 

Scrap wood was placed around the coamings to give the deck planks something to anchor to:

 

 

The deck planking stained with 'maple' stain:

 

and the first three deck planks installed.

 

 

Much more planking to go, but it's a start.

 

Regards,

GAK

 

[mbp521]

...and away we go!  
 

Great start. By the way, not sure if you previously mentioned it or not, but what is the color you are using for the coamings and waterways?  I like it!

 

-Brian

[gak1965]

37 minutes ago, mbp521 said:

...and away we go!  
 

Great start. By the way, not sure if you previously mentioned it or not, but what is the color you are using for the coamings and waterways?  I like it!

 

-Brian

 

The coamings and bulwarks are Tamiya XF-80 "Royal Light Gray", also labelled 'Navy Gray' (https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/acrylic-paint-flat-mini-10ml/acrylic-mini-xf-80-navy-gray/). One presumes therefore a standard Royal Navy color although you couldn't prove it by me.

 

The waterway is Tamiya XF-23 "Light blue"

 

George

Edited May 4, 2021 by gak1965

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

very nice Gorge. watching with anticipation.  

[gak1965]

Well, my last post was almost a month ago, during which time I've moved my younger daughter home from college in Boston, and moved the older daughter from her job at a paper in a small town in Nebraska to a new paper in Boise, ID. As a result, I haven't made quite as much progress as one might hope in that time. However, the main deck is starting to come along.

 

As Brian pointed out, when you work around the various coamings, you are likely to occasionally have an alignment issue. Fortunately, they weren't major problems. Where the coaming edges did not line up exactly with the end of a deck plank, I put the planks in place fore and aft, then put the next plank outboard in place. This typically left a gap on the outboard edge of the coaming itself that I filled in with a sanded down plank. I find this to yield a more even result than trying to cut out segment of a single plank and have it fit both to the previous plank and the coaming edge.

 

 

I also had a couple of places where I had to put in the equivalent of a stealer on the deck. In the image below, you can see that in order to have the planks fit properly when they were adjacent to planks started further aft, I needed to fill a small gap. The arrows indicate the about 1/32 inch plank I used to fill the gap. It won't be noticeable once the deck furniture is in place. I don't know if it was an asymmetry in the hull or just the result of variations in the thicknesses of the 1/16 deck planks, but either way it's not a big deal.

 

Hopefully more in less than a month.

 

George

[Keithbrad80]

Nice work George, You were braver than I to plank around the coamings. Looks great so far!

 

Bradley

[gak1965]

Well, the main deck planking is complete. I did not use a nibbing strake - it would have probably looked better, but it is beyond my capability at the moment and [warning, rationalization following] won't make much difference at 1:96 scale. I pre-stained the 1/16 by 1/16 planks, but needed to smooth it out in a couple of places, and so did a bit of restaining in those areas. It didn't seem to have a negative effect. On the whole I'm moderately pleased.

 

Before moving to the stern, I'm going to build and install everything that belongs under the forecastle, and I'm going to try to place the 5 bitts and then plank around them so that there is some interest in that space. The first step is going to be to clean up the windlass, which as can be seen has a lot of, well, I'll call it 'flash' in homage to the term of art in plastic. It also appears to have a slight casting defect on the windlass bitts that is going to require some filler.

 

A question to the clipper aficionados out there. Was it standard to paint the bitts some color other than black? My inclination is to paint them the same gray or blue that I've been using on the waterway or the inner bulwarks, or alternatively the white that I used on the ceiling planks, but I just don't know. 

 

One additional question to anyone who has built the fish (or has knowledge of standard clipper design). If you look at the section of the plans I've snapped below, you will see that the anchor chain goes through the chain stopper (which I will fabricate "approximately" just to help guide the chain itself, through what I tend to think of as a wear pad (although supposedly it also removes gunk) and then out through the hawse pipe. The pipe slopes downward and exits just below the waterway. Both of the previous ships I've built that required drilling them had the pipes aimed 45 to 60 degrees from the orientation of the ship's centerline. But when I run a straight line from the pipe, it looks like it exits the hull pretty much lined up with the location of the hawse (follow the ruler down). So - am I reading this right? Do the hawse pipes more or less run parallel to the centerline?

 

 

Thanks for looking in!

 

George K

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by gak1965

[mbp521]

George,

 

Amazing job on the deck. Even without the nibbing strake it came out looking great. I would have to go with the case of the planks not being a consistent width as to having to place filler planks in, I have yet to build a deck that had all of the planks the same size. A task that I always say that I am going to watch for next time, but next time never seems to come. 
 

I may sound like a broken record, but I have never been a fan of the Britannia fittings that MS puts in their kits. Most of the time they are misshapen, or there are voids in the casting, and almost every time there is an over abundance of flashing. 
 

It has been several years since I built this part of the ship, and really don’t recall how I assembled this part and unfortunately most of it is covered by the forecastle deck. However, in looking at my build I have the hawse pipes directly in line with the windlass. Now going back and looking at the plans, I’m not sure I did this correctly. I tried to get a snapshot of mine taken through the bowsprit hole but it wasn’t too clear. You may be able to see the deck level in relation to the hawse pipes. 

 

Hopefully this will help. Keep up the great work. 
 

-Brian

[bhermann]

Hi, George.  I just read through the entire log to this point as the MS Flying Fish kit is sitting on my cabinet waiting for me to finish my Bluenose build.  Your observations and insights have been very helpful and I appreciate your time in keeping such a detailed log.  Great work thus far!

 

When it comes to staining, I don't know if you are using a pre-stain on the basswood before applying stain.  I found it very helpful in reducing blotchiness when staining the birch dowels I used for the Bluenose masts.  Maybe it is something that could help you going forward.

 

I will be signing up to follow your build, I am looking forward to seeing your continued progress on the FF - she is a beauty!

 

Bob

[Keithbrad80]

Hi George,

 

excellent work so far! If I remember correctly I drilled the hawse holes parallel to the centerline, it was a pretty tough hole to drill properly but that’s how I read it from the plans. Everything looks great!

 

Bradley

[gak1965]

3 hours ago, bhermann said:

When it comes to staining, I don't know if you are using a pre-stain on the basswood before applying stain.  I found it very helpful in reducing blotchiness when staining the birch dowels I used for the Bluenose masts.  Maybe it is something that could help you going forward.

Just to show you my lack of knowledge, I've never even heard of pre-stain. Do you have a recommended brand(s)? 

 

Getting the dowels to take stain has always been a problem. If that would help it would be great.

[gak1965]

2 hours ago, Keithbrad80 said:

Hi George,

 

excellent work so far! If I remember correctly I drilled the hawse holes parallel to the centerline, it was a pretty tough hole to drill properly but that’s how I read it from the plans. Everything looks great!

 

Bradley

 

Thanks Brad! I was worried that I was reading the plans wrong. It will be a nuisance if I have to cut and then replace the joists for the forecastle in order to successfully drill the hawse pipes. We'll see if I can find the the right combination of bits to do so without cutting them out.

[Rick310]

I drilled the hawse holes on my Fish parallel to the centerline.  It was difficult to determine from the plans but seemed reasonable that one would want the chain to exit straight and not have a bend in the chain as the anchor fell away

[bhermann]

19 hours ago, gak1965 said:

Just to show you my lack of knowledge, I've never even heard of pre-stain. Do you have a recommended brand(s)? 

 

Getting the dowels to take stain has always been a problem. If that would help it would be great.

I used Minwax pre-stain for the dowels.  I had a Minwax stain picked out for the color so using the same brand for the pre-stain made sense to me.  I have been using Minwax stains for projects around the house for many years.

 

I heard about pre-stain on this forum, I had never used it before for anything, it did a nice job!

 

Bob

[Keithbrad80]

21 hours ago, gak1965 said:

Just to show you my lack of knowledge, I've never even heard of pre-stain. Do you have a recommended brand(s)?

Minwax makes a good pre-stain. I think it comes in a red can, it makes your stain much more even. Good luck!

 

Bradley

[gak1965]

So - making things for the forecastle. I drilled the hawse pipes, made outer rings for the hull where the pipes exit, fabricated the chain stoppers, cleaned up the windlass and painted it, and made the bitts (pictures later). As I install them, I am going to install the anchor chain as well, as I suspect pushing them through the hawse pipes, and the chain stoppers is going to be a real pain once the forecastle is decked over.

 

Which brings me to a question. the plans show a 5/16 chain link (short axis) at 1/2" = 1 ft. which is a 7.5 inch chain. A 7.5 inch chain at 1:96 would be 0.08 inches, which is, I think 13 links inch given that the supplied chain is round, not oval like real chain. The supplied chain measures about 1/32" and based on the part numbers from model shipways, suggests that it's actually 42 links per inch. This seems wrong to me (and the chain seems awfully wimpy compared to the size of the ship. Am I missing something, or (as I suspect) do I need to order some additional chain? It looks like the BlueJacket chain is orderable in more reasonable lengths. Has anyone used their chain? Do you like it?

 

George

Edited June 28, 2021 by gak1965

[Tim Holt]

Just wanted to add a note on this build.  I've got the old solid wood hull version of Model Shipways Flying Fish that I bought back in the early/mid 80's that I started long ago, and realized was over my head. 

I have to say, from the picture I saw it looks like the same plans as mine.  The plans and the instruction book are just incredibly detailed and wonderful compared to the other 3 kits I pre-inherted/bought from AL.  The old Model Shipwatys book and plans are gorgeous, and someone back when went to a lot of work to document and illustrate how to build it.  Not just how to build it, but how the real thing worked, and various ways to do it from easy to complex.  It even suggests you scratch build some of the cast parts if you're feeling like making something better.

I still have the kit, though at the time I did a pretty bad job on the hull.  Knowing what I know now in theory, plus having access to better materials and tools, I'm pretty tempted to use the plans to work out a scratch built plank on bulkhead hull to finish it off - not so much from what the kit has, but just from how good and detailed the plans seem.

[gak1965]

The Flying Fish plans were drawn by Ben Lankford, who also did the Niagara and Pride of Baltimore II. All three sets of plans are magnificent. The Fish plans in particular are less model plans and more like simplified builders plans. They don't show the model bulkheads, but rather the frames, and the detail views show the actual ship timbers, etc.

 

The MSW kits (which I really like) feel "semi-scratch" to me, having you scratch build a variety of the things that go onto the decks and aloft. Having to fabricate all of those things yourself gives you more feeling of accomplishment, at least in my mind. I agree with you that they feel like they give you the skills needed to build something from scratch. We will see if that is true - I just received plans from the NMM Greenwich for the RRS Discovery, so as I'm building the Fish, I'm going to be turning those into plans for a POB model.

 

The one area that the MSW kits are deficient  (in agreement with @mbp521 , aka Brian) is the Brittania fittings that they supply. The Fish has a lot more of them than either of the other two I've done, and that they are the worst I've seen in an MSW kit. I've replaced the Brittania anchor stocks with wood and brass versions before, so no problem there. The windlass wasn't too bad except for the flash, but the capstans are a mess, the cleats require a lot of cleanup, etc., etc. I thought about scratch building a windlass like @Keithbrad80 but the only model appropriate power tools I have available are a dremel and drill. Nevertheless, it may be possible to build a better capstan (or get the Brittania 1:96 ones from BlueJacket. The Niagara (at 1:64) had a capstan kit, which I may be able to shrink down to 1:96. We'll see.

[gak1965]

Okay. Initial work on the forecastle. First, the painted cleaned up windlass and the chain stopper (unpainted in the photo)

 

I copied and cut out a template to locate the furniture

 

I then mounted a stained end beam (with two small cutouts for where the knees are going to go, mounted the windlass and the chain stoppers. I didn't put in the troughs - it was getting mighty tight in there and they will be practically invisible (true of the chain stoppers pretty much as well, but it was good practice and will help thread the anchor chain cleanly. Next, I mounted the windlass bitt. As you can see in the photo, I mounted a small piece of wood to the forward side to give the deck planks something to mount on.

 

I then put a continuous strake on both sides of the forecastle deck and then start planking. I did the deck planking slightly differently than the planking on the main deck. The windlass bitt is four planks wide, and so I glued together a section of four planks, which I put trimmed to fit to the bow between the knightheads. Once they were installed I could install the two inboard bitts whose location I had marked earlier. That is the stopping point for the forecastle until the new anchor chain comes in from BlueJacket. Once I have that, I can run the chain through the hawse pipes, chain stoppers and then store the excess under the deck until I'm ready for the anchors. I just don't want to make the interior end of the hawse pipes and the chain stoppers any more inaccessible than they already are until I've run the chain.

 

So, next steps will be to lay out the coamings on the poop and plank it's deck.

 

Thanks for looking in!

 

George K

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by gak1965

[Tigersteve]

Very nice build so far!

Steve

[gak1965]

Some progress made in the past week.

 

While waiting for the chain to arrive from BlueJacket, I started working on the poop, making and painting the coamings for the after deck house and the stores locker.

 

 

However, it occurred to me that I had a way of finishing the forecastle without waiting for the chain and without making it impossible to access the chain stoppers and the like. I had a bit of wire that I purchased from BlueJacket that I used on my Niagara - it is nice and flexible and very fine, fine enough to act as the link in a chain. So I fed a stretch of wire through the hawse pipes from the outside, ran it through the chain stopper and then anchored it on the windlass. I connected the outside end to a block of wood to keep it from getting accidentally sucked up the hawse pipe.

 

 

When I'm ready for the chain, I will disconnect the block of wood, run the fine wire into the chain, close the end off with a tiny drop of CA glue and then pull the chain to where I want it.

 

With this out of the way, I decked the forecastle, and installed the remaining 2 bits (which pass through the deck and terminate on the ceiling planks under planking). The last thing to do there before putting the topgallant rail in place is to cut the sections for the catheads.

 

 

One question to anyone who has completed the Fish. My understanding of the after deck house is that it extends beyond the edge of the poop, but that there are ceiling planks along the edge of poop that closes off the main deck from the beginning of the poop. Which is to say that there needs to be a coaming (or set of coamings) that look like the blue lines in the figure below (or a single coaming that follows the outer edge of the blue below). Is that how you all interpret the plans?

 

 

As always, thanks for looking in!

 

George K

 

 

[gak1965]

Hey, a quick question to anyone that has done the Fish. I'm working on decking the poop. In the photo below, the coamings for the after deckhouse have been installed, and I'm pre-bending the continuous strake for the deck planking itself. If you look at the plans and the photo below, you will note that the after deckhouse is curved, not straight. The question is whether, in the segment next to the deckhouse the deck planks would have followed the (pretty mild) curvature of the coaming or whether they would have been straight and basically trimmed to match the coaming? Between the deckhouse and the covering board there are a lot of interesting curvature there, just curious as to which would have been done on the real ship so that I can at least try to replicate it on the model.

[rwiederrich]

Wonderful work.  I never built the Fish, but it would appear there is overhang of the poop house

Similar to that of the Glory of the Seas I’m building .

[gak1965]

15 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Wonderful work.  I never built the Fish, but it would appear there is overhang of the poop house

Similar to that of the Glory of the Seas I’m building .

Thanks!

 

It definitely has the overhang. Do you know why? This seems to be a not uncommon design element and the only explanation I could come up with is that it might provide an entrance that is full height since it would presumably be clear of the beams for the poop deck.