Mic.fr Posted February 22, 2021 Share #1 Posted February 22, 2021 Good morning all, I am a French model maker passionate about the old navy. The works of Jean Boudriot are my references (and my dreams ...). I hesitate for the moment on the choice of a model to realize, so much I like the two, the Ambitieux or the Saint Philippe. The choice should be made quickly because, by thinking too much, we waste time and enthusiasm ... See you soon on this rich forum. Mic Chuck Seiler, AON, ccoyle and 8 others 11 Quote https://modelshipworld.com/topic/28170-l-ambitieux-1680-by-micfr-148-plans-jean-boudriot/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Lad Posted February 22, 2021 Share #2 Posted February 22, 2021 Hello, and a warm welcome to the forum from 'Down Under'. John Mic.fr, mtaylor, Edwardkenway and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted February 22, 2021 Share #3 Posted February 22, 2021 Bonjour Mic!!! Welcome to MSW. It will be interesting to follow a build based on M. Boudriot's work. I hope you will start a build log for us to follow. Allan Keith Black, Edwardkenway, JeffT and 2 others 5 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce d Posted February 22, 2021 Share #4 Posted February 22, 2021 Bonjour Mic and welcome aboard MSW. I look forward to seeing what you choose. Edwardkenway, Keith Black, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote 🌻 STAY SAFE A model shipwright and an amateur historian are heads & tails of the same coin current builds: HMS Berwick 1775, 1/192 scratchbuild; a Slade 74 in the Navy Board style Mediator sloop, 1/48 - an 18th century transport scratchbuild French longboat - CAF - 1/48, on hold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardkenway Posted February 22, 2021 Share #5 Posted February 22, 2021 Bienvenue to MSW Mic, I look forward to seeing a build log for whichever one you choose, bonne chance!! mtaylor, Keith Black, bruce d and 2 others 5 Quote Current builds; Henry Ramey Upcher 1:25 Providence whaleboat- 1:25 HMS Winchelsea 1764 1:48 Completed: HM Cutter Sherbourne- 1:64- finished Triton cross section scratch- 1:60 - finished Non ship: SBD-3 Dauntless 1:48 Hasegawa -FINISHED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baker Posted February 22, 2021 Share #6 Posted February 22, 2021 mtaylor, JeffT, Keith Black and 2 others 5 Quote Regards, Patrick Finished : Soleil Royal Heller 1/100 Wasa Billing Boats Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch) Pelican / Golden Hind 1/45 scratch Current build : Mary Rose 1/50 scratch große-jacht / Yacht D'Oro 1/50 Corel Gallery : Revell Bounty Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch Shore leave, non ship models build logs : ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72 Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72 Autoblinda AB40 1/72 122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72 10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e) Centurion Mk.1 conversion M29 Weasel 1/72 SAM6 1/72 T26 Finland T26 TN 1/72 Autoprotetto S37 1/72 Opel Blitz buses 1/72 Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72 Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72 Cleaning the 1/72 military collection Si vis pacem, para bellum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffT Posted February 22, 2021 Share #7 Posted February 22, 2021 Welcome to MSW Edwardkenway, Mic.fr, Keith Black and 1 other 4 Quote Jeff In progress: Medway Longboat 1742 - Syren Ship Model Company -1/2" scale USS Constitution - Model Shipways - Scale 1:76 HMS Granado - CAF Model - 1:48 HMS Sphinx - Vanguard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted February 22, 2021 Share #8 Posted February 22, 2021 Mic, welcome to MSW. Tie up and enjoy your stay. mtaylor, Edwardkenway and Mic.fr 3 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted February 22, 2021 Share #9 Posted February 22, 2021 Welcome to MSW, Mic. I'm looking forward to you choice of builds and seeing a log. Edwardkenway, Mic.fr and Keith Black 3 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted February 23, 2021 Share #10 Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) On 2/22/2021 at 1:19 AM, Mic.fr said: I hesitate for the moment on the choice of a model to realize, so much I like the two, the Ambitieux or the Saint Philippe. Both of these are magnificent. They are also fiercely difficult. I have been thinking that Ambitieux is a bit sparse on decoration detail, but a closer look shows that the stern and head are both well detailed. Saint-Philippe is the more complicated of the two, The frames and stations are canted forward a little over 1 degree. None of the usual baseline, keel, waterlines,etc. are any help in matching the stations from the profile to the frame outlines (to locate the position of the decks and wales and ports). It dawned on me that the L.Fon and L.In1 will locate a station profile to its frame outline. There is another factor that is unique to S.Philippe. The stations are not spaced all the same or a derivative of a common factor. For every other ship that I have investigated, the stations involve some interval of a common frame sided dimension. Usually, it is the same R&S, with the number of that factor being 4 or 3 or 2 0f them per station interval. The same thickness of framing stock is used for the whole hull. The intervals for S.Philippe are in 4 different groupings. They are 12x12.75", 48x15.4", 24x14.9", 43x 13.9" (Imperial inches). It requires four separate thickness of framing stock and constant attention and awareness. No system or rhythm is possible. It is a mine field and bayonet as you go. The tabled mortise joint within a bend is eccentric, but that is not something that I would replicate and is easily ingnored. If these 17th century liners are a bit new to you, a close look at Fracois 1683 may be worthwhile. It has all of the style of the two big ships, but is a lot less imposing. In lofting the plans, I realized that this ship is even smaller than it appears to be, given that it is a two decker. The two big ones are going to be a LONG journey. Edited February 23, 2021 by Jaager Mic.fr, mtaylor and Keith Black 3 Quote NRG member 50 years Current: NMS HMS Ajax 1767 - 74-gun 3rd rate - 1:192 POF exploration - works but too intense -no margin for error HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - POF Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - POF Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - POF framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - POF timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - POF timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - POF timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 packet hull USN ship - POF timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - POF timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - POF framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic.fr Posted February 24, 2021 Author Share #11 Posted February 24, 2021 Hi, Thank you for your welcome. My choice fell on the Ambitieux. The plans of the S.P. are full of errors which oblige to redraw a good part of it. The plans by Jean Boudriot are more respectful of the construction techniques of the time, hence my choice. Mic mtaylor and Keith Black 2 Quote https://modelshipworld.com/topic/28170-l-ambitieux-1680-by-micfr-148-plans-jean-boudriot/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted February 24, 2021 Share #12 Posted February 24, 2021 Just now, Mic.fr said: The plans of the S.P. are full of errors which oblige to redraw a good part of it. I am not so sure that the plans are in error. I think that Lemineur became so involved in the contemporary method that he lost sight of the real purpose of his monograph. It is all well and good to document what was actually done. Reproducing an eccentric building method does add a serious complication and an unnecessary one at that. It would have been more friendly to have drawn the keel with the slope. However, he developed the individual bend patterns for the commonly used POF assembly methods and did not think thru just how much more difficult doing it at an angle is. It hurts my head to try to see how to use the routine methods to get a new baseline that gets the frames perpendicular. The geometry is maddening. I guess when viewed by the needs of most, this is an error, or at least an ill adivised decision. I just have not seen any technical errors in the actual lines. I wish you smooth sailing on the project. Ambitieux is a big horse. mtaylor, Mic.fr and Keith Black 3 Quote NRG member 50 years Current: NMS HMS Ajax 1767 - 74-gun 3rd rate - 1:192 POF exploration - works but too intense -no margin for error HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - POF Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - POF Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - POF framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - POF timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - POF timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - POF timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 packet hull USN ship - POF timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - POF timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - POF framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted February 24, 2021 Share #13 Posted February 24, 2021 There is one aspect of SP that is diving me to distraction. On the Profile plan, the station lines are sloped with the frames. The Body plan seems to be the actual frame shape, and not a foreshortened perpendicular to the keel parallax view. The Body plan at M matches the extract bend shape for M. It is not squished down. So, why, if the Body plan is perpendicular to the viewer, is the rabbet not sloped down aft? The geometry is confusing me. Keith Black, mtaylor and Mic.fr 3 Quote NRG member 50 years Current: NMS HMS Ajax 1767 - 74-gun 3rd rate - 1:192 POF exploration - works but too intense -no margin for error HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - POF Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - POF Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - POF framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - POF timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - POF timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - POF timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 packet hull USN ship - POF timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - POF timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - POF framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic.fr Posted February 24, 2021 Author Share #14 Posted February 24, 2021 You understand why I'm giving it up ... Jaager, Keith Black and mtaylor 3 Quote https://modelshipworld.com/topic/28170-l-ambitieux-1680-by-micfr-148-plans-jean-boudriot/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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