Lower Deadeyes coming loose

[DaveBaxt]

I am currently attaching the  shrouds to the  upper deadeyes and although I am finding this difficult I am slowly getting there . The problems I seem to be having is the lower deadeyes becoming loose and dislodged from the brass wire circling the deadeye which secures it to the chain plate . I have no real tension on the lanyards so why is this happening? It sometimes occurrs on the deadeye next to the one I am working on. I have also noticed that the when the slightest bit of tension is put on the shrouds and the brass  surrounding the lower deadeye begins to come apart. allowing the lower deadeye to pop out. I am just wondering if the brass is too soft, or am I not being gentle enough. Just a thought and wondering if I would be better of making my own out of steel wire and have a twist in the wire so it cannot come off the deadeye easily. Am I the only person to have this problem then I am clearly doing something wrong? Best regards Dave

[Kevin]

could you try a apply a solder joint in situ,  other than that it might mean redoing them, But in the Caldercraft Victory the deadeye fitted into a formed ring that attached to the hull

 

[Kevin]

like this in different sizes

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Kevin

[barkeater]

Tough to say without seeing it but I would consider a small amount of cyanoacrylate. It will be visible so only a tiny bit.

[DaveBaxt]

I have thought about both of these and the CA glue might work but there is a gap in between the ends so doubt soldering would work. CA might work but not without getting some on the deadeye itself. I think I will perservere with these for now but as my next model is probably going to be the Endeavour by Caldercraft I will see how I get on with the one you have shown in the photo. I might end up makeing my own so there is no gap and soldering them once they have been fitted over the dead eye. Hope this makes sense. Best regards Dave

[allanyed]

Dave,

 

I have not heard of this problem before, it may the rings (upper link)  themselves that are not quite right. The Caldercraft upper links in the picture posted are not solid rings as they should be so if this is the same situation that you have Dave, this may be the problem.  It is easy to silver solder  brass (or even soft solder a copper wire)  into a large ring.  The heat in silver soldering the brass will soften it enough to easily form around the deadeye.    This is then squeezed into the groove of the deadeye with the excess forming a smaller ring for the middle link of the chain.   There will be a flat spot between the large ring on the deadeye and the small ring that will sit in the slot in the channel.   The first one you make is the hardest as you have to figure out the size of the initial solid round ring before squeezing it to shape so the deadeye sits on the channel and the small ring is just below the bottom side of the channel.   I have no idea on how to figure the math so have just gone with a piece of copper wire to get the approximate size then solder and test fit.  If too small, the next will be a hair larger, if too large, a hair smaller. Once I have it right, I cut it apart and straighten it then cut as many pieces as I need with all of them the proper length to make the proper size upper link.  

 

David Antscherl goes into  some detail on page 262 of Volume II of TFFM and recommends using brass and a high melt point silver solder.  He also points out the need to have the straight portion between the upper and lower loops long enough to allow the unit with a deadeye to be pulled up about a scale inch or so above the channel when tensioning. 

 

 Glue of any kind, be it CA or Gorilla or epoxy, is probably not a good solution.

 

[Kevin]

personally, i would removes the channel edging, and redo the deadeyes with a stiffer wire or go down the route of putting the Caldercraft fittings in place as they stop movement within the channel

 

i beleive this to be one of your phots Dave, nice build

[DaveBaxt]

11 hours ago, allanyed said:

Dave,

 

I have not heard of this problem before, it may the rings (upper link)  themselves that are not quite right. The Caldercraft upper links in the picture posted are not solid rings as they should be so if this is the same situation that you have Dave, this may be the problem.  It is easy to silver solder  brass (or even soft solder a copper wire)  into a large ring.  The heat in silver soldering the brass will soften it enough to easily form around the deadeye.    This is then squeezed into the groove of the deadeye with the excess forming a smaller ring for the middle link of the chain.   There will be a flat spot between the large ring on the deadeye and the small ring that will sit in the slot in the channel.   The first one you make is the hardest as you have to figure out the size of the initial solid round ring before squeezing it to shape so the deadeye sits on the channel and the small ring is just below the bottom side of the channel.   I have no idea on how to figure the math so have just gone with a piece of copper wire to get the approximate size then solder and test fit.  If too small, the next will be a hair larger, if too large, a hair smaller. Once I have it right, I cut it apart and straighten it then cut as many pieces as I need with all of them the proper length to make the proper size upper link.  

 

David Antscherl goes into  some detail on page 262 of Volume II of TFFM and recommends using brass and a high melt point silver solder.  He also points out the need to have the straight portion between the upper and lower loops long enough to allow the unit with a deadeye to be pulled up about a scale inch or so above the channel when tensioning. 

 

 Glue of any kind, be it CA or Gorilla or epoxy, is probably not a good solution.

 

Thank you once again Allan for your guidence. I now think the problem lies with the Amati link. Here is a photo of the link in question. I have opened it up  a bit so you can see where the gap is. This is what happens when I push it over the deadeye. I never seem to get it to close again properly. Even so I don,t understand why I am the only person to have this problem with the amati links. I have a number of spares and so perhaps I could experiment with a bit of solder. I have been reluctant to try this with the dead eye in situ but perhaps I could try this before fitting onto the deadeye. So to cut a long story short .I should have soldered the gap to stop it opening up again.Best regards Dave

Edited March 31, 2021 by DaveBaxt

[DaveBaxt]

9 hours ago, Kevin said:

personally, i would removes the channel edging, and redo the deadeyes with a stiffer wire or go down the route of putting the Caldercraft fittings in place as they stop movement within the channel

 

i beleive this to be one of your phots Dave, nice build

I agree that using the Caldercraft fittings is probably a better way to go. Thanks for the kind words regarding my Bounty. Best regards Dave

[AJohnson]

Hi Dave, I have a few spare Caldercraft deadeye straps you could try out if you would like me to post some to you to try before committing to a wholesale change.  One issue that might arise with the CC straps is the size of the two prongs that stick into the channel, they are not big and if your channel has slots already for the deadeyes they might be too loose even if trapped by the channel edging strip.  Just a thought 

Edited March 31, 2021 by AJohnson

[allanyed]

Dave,

To further clarify, the sketch and photo below may help in figuring out the sizing for the rings to make the upper link that goes around the deadeye.    Silver solder takes a little practice but is an extremely useful skill in this hobby of ours.   I prefer paste to solid pieces but you may want to try both.    I do prefer using copper and soft solder whenever possible.  The solder in the photo is extremely strong and goes on with a standard soldering iron.  Thin brass wire and silver solder can be problematic as a propane torch is harder to control on very thin wire and sometimes melts the wire if you are not careful.  The ring is made of 24 gage bare, dead soft,  copper wire.  You can get numerous gages from 30 to 12 in 100 foot spools or larger from under $10 per spool.   I made three rings in about 3 minutes  I tried to pull apart the third one with pliers and it held without any problems.    Another advantage of using copper is that I blackened it after it was formed around the deadeye with liver of sulfur.   I turned a 1/4" disc for this demo, thus it does not have the three holes that would normally be there.    

Hope this helps!   

 

 

[DaveBaxt]

Just Had a double check regarding the deadeyes and noticed not all of them are giving me problems so I think further investigation may resolve this. I have desided to stip off the shrouds I have done and start again. I have some copper and solder which seem to work fine ( I made a jig using this and a standard electric soldering Iron so with a bit of practice I should be fine) I think I will remove the links which are giving me problems and see if there is any difference between them and another new one. Perhaps I am not fitting the dead eys properly. I did get better at it as I went along and perhaps these ones were the first of the ones I fitted.  Thanks for the kind offer for the Caldercraft links but I could not accept due to being over the pond as it were. Once again I thank everyone for there kind help and hopefully I can continue now that I have a better understanding of what might be happening. Best regards Dave

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AJohnson]

I'll be keeping a close eye on your progress Dave, as I hope to be on with masts and rigging in a few weeks time with my  own  Bounty.

Keep us posted 👍

[DaveBaxt]

3 hours ago, AJohnson said:

I'll be keeping a close eye on your progress Dave, as I hope to be on with masts and rigging in a few weeks time with my  own  Bounty.

Keep us posted 👍

No problems. I will keep you posted . Good luck with your Bounty

[Roger Pellett]

Dave,

 

After soldering them with Allen’s higher strength solder, you might want to make yourself one of my special deadeye crimping tools. Just a pair of parallel jaw pliers with wooden jaws glued in place.

 

[DaveBaxt]

4 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

Dave,

 

After soldering them with Allen’s higher strength solder, you might want to make yourself one of my special deadeye crimping tools. Just a pair of parallel jaw pliers with wooden jaws glued in place.

 

Roger,thank you for your input and what looks to be an excellent idea.Did you use an epoxy resin glue or could you get away with just using CA and did you have any difficulty finding the right kind of pliers or just about any would do.? Best regards Dave

[DaveBaxt]

On 3/30/2021 at 6:37 PM, Kevin said:

like this in different sizes

 

Kevin thanks again for your input. I have just been Just taking another look at the Caldercraft upper chain link. Are  the two prongs that form the gap for soldering purposes or do they actually help to secure the chain plate to the channel in someway? I am concidering the Caldercraft Endeavour for my next model. If I ever finish this one. Only joking Haha. So it would be nice for future reference. Best regards Dvae

[Kevin]

7 minutes ago, DaveBaxt said:

Kevin thanks again for your input. I have just been Just taking another look at the Caldercraft upper chain link. Are  the two prongs that form the gap for soldering purposes or do they actually help to secure the chain plate to the channel in someway? I am concidering the Caldercraft Endeavour for my next model. If I ever finish this one. Only joking Haha. So it would be nice for future reference. Best regards Dvae

They help secure the deadeye in the channel

[DaveBaxt]

9 minutes ago, Kevin said:

They help secure the deadeye in the channel

Thanks Kevin ?Best regards Dave

[Kevin]

1 hour ago, DaveBaxt said:

Thanks Kevin ?Best regards Dave

sorry i should of added, in the slot within the channel where the deadeye sits, a small hole is drilled which the two pins are squeezed together in put in that hole, saves soldering and i never once had a pull out problem

 

[Kevin]

 

funny that i was fitting deadeyes to my Victory this day 8 years ago (according to facebook)

[DaveBaxt]

8 hours ago, Kevin said:

sorry i should of added, in the slot within the channel where the deadeye sits, a small hole is drilled which the two pins are squeezed together in put in that hole, saves soldering and i never once had a pull out problem

 

The Caldercraft Dead eyes sound to be much better thought out and hopefully my next model the Endeavour also by Caldercraft will have the same upper links as the one shown in the photo. Makes much more sense when you think about it. Once again I thank you for your input. Best regards dave

[Roger Pellett]

Dave,

 

CA Glue was sufficient.  If my memory is correct, I glued them to the jaws, clamped the jaws together, then drilled the hole.

 

 

[DaveBaxt]

Thanks again Roger. Sounds easy enough and definately something to think about . I still have the top and topgallant dead eyes to do, so I might try and find these pliers as I have come to a bit of a stand still as I have ran out of 1 mm black thread and I am sure I ordered extra. I have lots of black thread but no 1mm. 

[DaveBaxt]

I have just noticed for some reason in the HMS Bount kit by Amati that there are no clips for the upper deadeyes supplied and states that there are 5 mm dead eys only. I have also noticed that one of our well known model shops supply spares for Amati and lucky for me they supply 5 mm clips for around the dead eye which looks exactly the same as the Caldercraft upper chain clip. together with hooks for the Futtock shrouds so I have ordered enough plus a few spare to complete my Bounty. I am not sure if I will be able to drill a hole fore the two prongs to fit so will have a go at soldering and see how I get on . Thanks once again for all your replies. Best regards Dave 

[Kevin]

3 minutes ago, DaveBaxt said:

I have just noticed for some reason in the HMS Bount kit by Amati that there are no clips for the upper deadeyes supplied and states that there are 5 mm dead eys only. I have also noticed that one of our well known model shops supply spares for Amati and lucky for me they supply 5 mm clips for around the dead eye which looks exactly the same as the Caldercraft upper chain clip. together with hooks for the Futtock shrouds so I have ordered enough plus a few spare to complete my Bounty. I am not sure if I will be able to drill a hole fore the two prongs to fit so will have a go at soldering and see how I get on . Thanks once again for all your replies. Best regards Dave 

did you use Cornwall Model Boats, they are taking slightly longer to despatch at present, a week between ordering and posting

 

[DaveBaxt]

17 hours ago, Kevin said:

did you use Cornwall Model Boats, they are taking slightly longer to despatch at present, a week between ordering and posting

 

Yes. I noticed that too. I am still waiting for the black 1 mm thread from them which I ordered about a week ago. They are normally first class. No pun intended. 

[Kevin]

i noticed a post on facebook that  they were loosing a member of staff due to job change, maybe that has affected the flow of things

[AJohnson]

31 minutes ago, Kevin said:

i noticed a post on facebook that  they were loosing a member of staff due to job change, maybe that has affected the flow of things

Ah, maybe that explains things as I have also noticed Cornwall are not their usual service for despatch when getting replacement parts for my Bounty.

[Kevin]

1 hour ago, AJohnson said:

Ah, maybe that explains things as I have also noticed Cornwall are not their usual service for despatch when getting replacement parts for my Bounty.

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