HMS Victory by Bill97 - FINISHED - Heller - 1/100 - PLASTIC

[Bill97]

Adding the “nail heads” to the plates helped to flatten the copper tape and define the individual plates. 

[Ian_Grant]

On 8/17/2021 at 11:43 AM, Bill97 said:

 

Ian back in my blog, comment #202 you explained the rigging of the Bowsprit Shrouds. You suggested I ignore the Heller instructions and refer to Longridge’s book. I did that and found the paragraph on page 226 as you said. However I am still a bit stumped. I am hoping to find an illustration in the book that shows what I am to do. Do you know if there is one?  It says Plates 71and 74. But I am not finding anything there. 

Bill;  yes, plate 71 is not too helpful. But plate 74 shows the two starboard shrouds emanating from the hull eyebolt(s) just behind the lower edge of the cheek, below/ahead of the first lower deck gunport. You can just see the lines heading up to the right, towards the bowsprit. Note that text on pg 226 says two eyebolts for the two shrouds but this picture seems to show both hooked to a single eyebolt. That's what I did.

 

It's too dark in this image to see what happens at their other ends. Fig 118 pg 187 shows the two hearts on the side of the bowsprit to which the bobstays attach. As the text pg 226 states, each bobstay has a heart on its end, these hearts being lashed to the bowsprit hearts with several turns.

[Bill97]

Thanks Ian. As always your help is appreciated. The instructions show 3 lines coming from the bow (E50, E52, and E54). Should I just ignore E50, or is it for something else later?  I also now have to figure out what a heart is 🤔😀

[Ian_Grant]

11 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

Bill;  yes, plate 71 is not too helpful. But plate 74 shows the two starboard shrouds emanating from the hull eyebolt(s) just behind the lower edge of the cheek, below/ahead of the first lower deck gunport. You can just see the lines heading up to the right, towards the bowsprit. Note that text on pg 226 says two eyebolts for the two shrouds but this picture seems to show both hooked to a single eyebolt. That's what I did.

 

It's too dark in this image to see what happens at their other ends. Fig 118 pg 187 shows the two hearts on the side of the bowsprit to which the shrouds attach. As the text pg 226 states, each shroud has a heart on its end, these hearts being lashed to the bowsprit hearts with several turns.

Bill, I made a mistake in my earlier message; had just completed a 12 hour drive back from a camping trip. Where I mentioned bobstays I meant shrouds, corrected in red above. Sorry for the confusion!

 

I believe E50 is a Hellerism. They probably thought there should be the same number of shrouds as bobstays, however Figure 118 shows there is no shroud pair at the outer bobstay. Model on!

[Bill97]

Ian I knew what you meant. And since they tie to an eyebolt instead of passing through a hole in the hull I can just wait to later when I attach the bowsprit to attach these lines. No need to tie them to eyebolts right now?

[Ian_Grant]

No, just drill and glue in the eyebolts and rig the shrouds later.

 

The lines you do need to add before you glue in the quarterdeck are the main sheet and tack, and the fore sheet (A72, A74, and A125 respectively on Heller pg 6). These all attach to staghorns on the maindeck bulwarks, part no. 41 and 100 (see heller pg 7). These lines should be passed through the holes in the hull, coiled on the staghorns, and the excess left coiled outside the hull until needed (years in my case, probably months in yours 😁). But you have a ways to go before you need to worry about them.

[Bill97]

Thanks Ian. I have been looking over those 3 lines and had a curiosity about them I mentioned a little earlier. In the instructions on #8 bottom left corner it reads under Example: for A72 to go through a block (m26) 200 mm from the starting point and then return to the hull and pass through a second block (m24) attached to hull before going into the hole. Did you do that or just pass both ends into the hull without the second block?  Also, do you go ahead and attach parts 41 and 100 now?  Part numbers the same for port side?

[Bill97]

Spending a lovely Sunday relaxing and applying copper tape to my hull. I wanted to add   the appearance of nails to the copper but I do not have one of those handy dandy roller tools Daniel had when he did it so I am doing it the old fashioned way. Push pin one poke at a time (12 pokes per plate)!  🤪

[Ian_Grant]

A72 is the main sheet. Pass a thread through the sheave hole in the hull and rig the inboard end to the staghorn on the maindeck bulwark. Then coil the excess outside until needed. You'll need enough thread to go from the sheave, through the block mounted on the hull, up to the main yard if rigging without sails, or to the clew of the mainsail if included, then back down to an eyebolt on the hull. When you do come to rig it, just pass it through the necessary blocks and tie the standing end off at its eyebolt.

 

Again, the Heller instructions are best employed as a spur to make you look up the real answer in Longridge.  The best illustration of this particular area is Fig 56 on pg 95. Longridge has the mainsheet block rigged with a little bracket; there are existing photos of the block just attached to an eyebolt. Take your pick; I made a little bracket just because it seemed better than the block banging against the hull.

[Ian_Grant]

8 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

Spending a lovely Sunday relaxing and applying copper tape to my hull. I wanted to add   the appearance of nails to the copper but I do not have one of those handy dandy roller tools Daniel had when he did it so I am doing it the old fashioned way. Push pin one poke at a time (12 pokes per plate)!  🤪

 

 

 

12 pokes per plate............God, you have dogged determination.  😲

[Bill97]

Dogged determination or needing to be on medication! 😀

 

By the way where did you go camping 12 hours from Ottawa? Sure it was beautiful. 

[JEFFRAV]

HI everyone. I just started my ship on Friday. When i found these post I thought I hit the lottery. I spent about 4 hours going through each post so much info here. Doing some primer today and then I will go from there. Will have some pictures soon. I will take a lot of time on this build. I hope I don't bother no one because I will have alot of questions. By the way I was reading on Bill97 post #144 about thread ref. Here is a picture of what i got with my kit. I hope it helps!  Thanks a lot Jeffrav

[dafi]

Not all problems with the Heller instructions are mistakes but anachronisms due to advanced research today. M24 is shown here with a kind of three-legged rope, as it was some years ago still attached to a three-legged iron structure to keep it clear the hull. It was later realised that this was introduced only much later and today shows a single Rope fixed on the hull.

Same goes to the 2 eyebolts near the cutwater on the bow. Those ropes are omitted today but the bolts were still visible until the last restoration. Are they still there?

 

Great work on the plates, looks like I was right to tempt you 🙂

 

XXXDAn

Edited August 24, 2021 by dafi

[Bill97]

Examining the upper sides of my hull looking for the intentions where possible holes should be or where they were before I covered with Evergreen, I am discovering I will have to drill holes for these lines we are discussing. I guess I will refer to the different pictures in reference material for appropriate locations. 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Bill, if you need photos of an untouched hull section just post a picture of the area(s) you want and ask, it's no trouble and I'll probably welcome an excuse to take a break from F360. (coming along, coming along, slow but steady).

 

I like that copperwork and, as Ian said, you certainly have some determination 're the nails. It took me about three or four sessions to just line the gunports first time round and I've still only partially done those on the 'good' hull. And you have a good eye for spacing, too.

[Bill97]

Thanks Kevin. That would be very helpful. If you don’t mind maybe just send me a couple pictures of either side. Front, middle, back I guess. That way it will be big enough to zoom in.  Holes and other features should be the same on both sides. 
 

BTW Kevin I am venturing over to your side of the Atlantic next month (if Covid situation does not cause us to cancel). Going to be in Scotland for about a week. Will go through Heathrow to connect to Edinburgh. 
 

Finished the copper on the port side including “nail holes”.  Trying to decide if I want to polish it to get the hand oils and smudges or just leave it. I know the Victory copper is not bright and shiny. I am going to put a small border strip of evergreen to separate the black and copper to give a more defined edge. 
 

 

[Old Collingwood]

That is looking so sweet.

 

OC.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

No problem, I’ll do that this evening. On a scale of 1 - 10, how difficult was it to do the coppering?

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Sat in a very dull online meeting - my workshop is also my office these days - so here you go. Most of them are through holes so I expect are visible from the inside.

Photos (12).zip

[Bill97]

Sorry Kevin. Did not see this until now. Somehow I got signed out of the site. It is not difficult at all to do the copper. Maybe a 2 or 3. I read in Daniel’s post that you need 4mm copper tape. The plates on the Heller 1/100 are exactly 4mm wide, or tall I guess. I found it on Amazon. I put a copper spray paint on first so any tiny missed spaces would not be obvious. You then start at the top row of plates. Unroll a length of the copper tape, start at one end and slowly pull the backing off the copper as you press it to the row. It is kind of fragile so you have to be careful. If it breaks, which I have had happen a number of times, I use my exacto knife to cut a straight edge at the last plate and then simply start there again. I also my exacto knife to cut sharp edges at beginning and end. I wanted to give the impression of nail holes. I simply use a push pin and poke a series of holes in each plate trying to keep them somewhat uniform. Today I added a small strip of Evergreen as a border between the black and copper and painted it black thinking it gave a more finished look. 

[Bill97]

Oh Kevin I apologize I forgot to thank you for the pictures. They should help me a lot. 
 

Search this on Amazon. This is what I used. Could not figure out how to copy the link. Takes 2 rolls. 
 

uxcell Single-Sided Conductive Tape Copper Foil Tape 4mm x 30m/98.4ft for Guitar,EMI Shielding Crafts, Electrical Repairs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B094HCYNBR/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_VSAQGDX18Y6953QXP139?psc=1

 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Bill97

[Kevin-the-lubber]

I like the look of the taped bottom a lot but I've always had it in mind to have the green-ish/blue-ish patina effect, which I think looks beautiful on models. I guess I'll buy some tape and ageing solution and play around.

[Bill97]

Kevin I suppose you could do both. I have wondered about doing just that. I am sure I would need to do a test on several strips stuck on a piece of Evergreen or something to see if the aging solution effected the adhesive. Would not want to ruin the wool already done. 

[Bill97]

Kevin I also found these instructions on line. 
 

For a blue patina, mix one part Miracle-Gro with three parts water for a solution that you can spray or wipe onto the copper. For a green patina, mix one part Miracle-Gro with three parts red wine vinegar. A patina will form within 30 minutes and become permanent within 24 hours.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

That’ll be worth a go. And if it doesn’t work out I’ll have a plentiful supply of slug barriers for the garden!

[Bill97]

Kevin if you refer back to Daniel’s build post #53 in Feb 2013 you can see how he added the batten trim and solved the Heller Hump!

[Ian_Grant]

On 8/22/2021 at 8:33 PM, Bill97 said:

Dogged determination or needing to be on medication! 😀

 

By the way where did you go camping 12 hours from Ottawa? Sure it was beautiful. 

Bill your copper looks great!

 

Drove over to Lake Superior, a little past Sault Ste Marie. Pitched the tent at Pancake Bay Provincial Park and explored around there and in Lake Superior Provincial Park. Beautiful area; hadn't been up that way since 1992. Lovely lookout views by hiking, and even canoed in Lake Superior off Agawa Rock (waited for a VERY calm day 😉).

 

Later Edit:  Forgot to mention that we were amazed at all the trees around Sudbury now - in 1992 hwy 17 bypassing Sudbury was completely barren, bare rock due to 70's acid rain. Great to see nature taking over again, and isn't life tenacious? Sorry to go off topic, but Bill asked! 😁

Edited August 30, 2021 by Ian_Grant

[Bill97]

OK gang I have decided to go full bling bling on my Victory. Probably a new take on this beauty. Please don’t vote me off the web site! 😀

Since I decided to leave Daniel’s rigols and all his other etched pieces shiny brass I decided to polish the copper bottom!  Also using Daniel’s process I added a small wooden batten at the top of the copper to make a clean line between it and the black. You can barely see it in the photos. After using the polish on the copper tape I noticed I had accidentally pulled up a tape corner here and there. Went ahead and mounted the hull to the base so I don’t need to handle the copper any more to tarnish it. Will gently repair the few lose corners tomorrow wearing jewelers gloves. What is really neat about using this tape is doing a repair now or later simply requires using my exacto knife, cutting the tape at left and right edge of the “plate”  and removing the damaged piece of tape. Then cutting a new piece to replace the piece removed. Add a series of nail holes and the repair is invisible. 

[dafi]

Great work, Bill, love it! 

 

As Kevin asked for the copper color scheme: Blank as Bill´s copper it only is if polished 🙂

 

As for my resaerch, the greenish color just appears if copper is on the air, like in the drydock. Usually in the harbor the copper gets a brownish color. Usually with all kind of weed on top. If sailing the abrasion of the water molecules give a pinkish (!) appearance to the "delight" of the most model makers 😉 

 

So basically on can show on the model, what happened last to the ship. Was it in harbor or was it sailing. In some test pieces I opted for a mixture of brown and pink for underneath the water, for a bright pink on the waterline and a very thin greenish erea where wind and weather meet.

 

All the best, Daniel

 

 

PS: Some more infos about copper and aging here in German, but one can use the automatic translator on the left bottom.:

https://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/t588f643-Kupferung-im-Original.html

https://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/t3568f804-Patina-von-Kupferteilen.html

https://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/t3567f804-Kupferung-Darstellung-von-Naegeln-im-kleineren-Massstab.html

Edited August 29, 2021 by dafi

[Bill97]

Thanks Daniel. Appreciate the compliment. Keep the temptations coming. Some I will except and try. Others I may determine are above my skill level.