HMS Victory by Bill97 - FINISHED - Heller - 1/100 - PLASTIC

[Bill97]

Kevin I will look forward to watching your 3D printing experiment.

Glad I could provide you a useful tip 😊.  I am aware about alcohol removing acrylic paint since I to have unfortunately had to use it time and again over the years! I really like using the Vallejo Old and New Wood set. I have used it at different times for both effects. I am more pleased with the result I get for making old wood but sometimes the new wood effect is more appropriate for the project. Now that you have brought it to my attention I need to check my kit colors to see if any are getting close to needing replacement before I get near starting my Soleli Royal deck, which is going to be a long time from now!

[Veszett Roka]

39 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

 I am aware about alcohol removing acrylic paint since I to have unfortunately had to use it time and again over the years!

 

I do so. However, it is somewhat in reverse order. First i do use alcohol, then next day i have to remove the acrylic paint

[Kevin-the-lubber]

3 hours ago, Veszett Roka said:

irst i do use alcohol, then next day i have to remove the acrylic paint

A common complaint, I suspect, especially at this time of the year. I don't drink much but I swear modelling could drive me to it yet.

 

I'll start a log soon-ish Bill, I suspect that for you it'll be somewhat deja vu as your log is my primary reference.

[Ian_Grant]

11 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

That’s a useful tip Bill, note to self to slightly enlarge the mast holes in the lower decks. I remember thinking, during dry fits, that this was a risky area and once painted likely to be even more so. Isopropyl alcohol is also good for dissolving acrylic paint, and doesn’t dissolve glue (but does make putty go soggy). I know this because I had to strip the entire deck of the CS yesterday evening after making a mess of inking in the plank lines through guessing where they should be where I could barely see them under the base coat - I’m doing the same as you, Vallejo old and new wood. But I have a plan…

Bill, not to distract from your Victory but I'm curious about Kevin's comment...😉

 

Kevin, have you 3D printed a deck for CS? I ask because as far as I know the Revell CS still has that annoying deck with the caulking lines molded proud of the planks, rather than recessed. Or were you trying to paint only them? With a properly molded deck it's easy to paint a wash over all, then wipe off leaving it in the cracks. Wish I had known that for my Victory instead of using ultra-fine-tip markers.

 

Now back to our regular scheduled program........

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Well, that was what I was trying to achieve, a replacement deck - but I think, rather than hijack Bill's log I'd better start my own for the CS. I'll do that this evening and explain all.

[Bill97]

Not a problem Kevin and Ian. I don’t consider you hijacking my blog. I learn from all the conversations. 

[tomganc]

Wow great build!

I can see you are going crazy with details and I love it. I'm building 1/84 model and I'm going the same route... once you start improving it never ends. Looks like we have the same books - Anatomy of Nelson's Ships - I just started rigging and changes are big

 

Have a great fun with it and she looks great BTW

 

Tom

[Bill97]

Kevin I did not look back at my CS blog to see what pictures I attached but here are a few of my deck using the he Vallejo Old and New Wood kit. 

[Bill97]

Ok gentlemen the mizzenmast is installed. It to required a little filing down the lower decks to improve the alignment. All three lower masts are now installed with rigging blocks attached as directed. Viewing the deck looking toward the stern all 3 masts appear in perfect alignment. Mainmast and mizzenmast are hidden behind the foremast!  So where do I go from here?  Is it better to do the lower stays now, then the lower shrouds, and then the back stays once complete mast is in?  

[Ian_Grant]

Me, I would attach blocks to your eyebolts below the tops then glue the tops on. You can't really rig the lower stays before the shrouds as the stays are laid over all the seized shroud loops round the mast. You'll have to seize your shrouds round the mast in situ since the lift blocks and jeer cleats negate forming them off-model then slipping them over the mastheads. Damn I should have mentioned that before 😬..... I actually broke off the jeer cleats to let me do exactly that. Sorry!  Remember too that the pendants go on before the shrouds.....

 

But before you do anything I recommend you attach the relevant stays (with thimbles and lashings) to your new eyebolts behind the fore and main masts. Get in there while you still can, coil the stays and rig in reverse later.

ps Shouldn't there be two eyebolts in front of the mizzen, and indeed the others, for the pairs of truss pendants? Looks like only one ahead of your mizzen.

 

If you want to be really accurate you can bust out your new serve-o-matic machine and serve the centre portion of each shroud pair (consult Longridge) before seizing the loop. Here's a pic of my first served shrouds, at the foremast.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by Ian_Grant
adding info

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Thanks for the additional pics Bill, my log is up now.

 

That's quite a result you've got on the masts lining up, I can tell from here, with a tradesmans' practised eye, that they are absolutely true. I'll be watching these next stages with particular interest as the rigging stage terrifies me, but also because I don't think I can live with the revell mouldings for the CS ratlines. 

[Bill97]

Ian I was just looking at Longridge’s book and see that the stays go over the shrouds. So I will add them before the stays just not connect them to the deadeyes. I see what you mean about not being able to make them off the ship and slide on the mast top. Would have to be lose like the top of the stays. So I will add the eyes and blocks to the tops and put them on. Great idea to rig to the eyebolts at the base of the masts before proceeding. And yes I fully intend to put my serv-o-matic to work on my shroud lines. As far as the eyebolts around the base of the mizzenmast, I was hoping you did not see that. For some dumb reason I drilled and placed 4 but put them at front, back, side and side. Trying to decide if I should clip them off, repair the damage to the deck, and redrill them. 

[Bill97]

Thanks Kevin for your compliments. I was a tradesman as well in my younger years and often used the old eyeball to line things up. In retrospect I wish I could go back and replace the plastic shrouds on both my Cutty Sark and USS Constitution. 

[Bill97]

Ian, just curious here, in the diagram you sent me showing the eyebolts around the mizzenmast you show numbers  78, 93, and 107 that also apply to the belaying pins on Daniel’s etched ring that is there. Do I use either the eyebolts you recommend or the belaying pins in the ring for those lines?

[Ian_Grant]

At all 3 masts, there are two deck eyebolts and two cleats on the front of the mast labelled for the truss pendants. Referring to Longridge pg 240, you see the diagram of the pendants themselves ending in double blocks.Two more double blocks are hooked to the deck eyebolts. The pendant tackle starts at the eye at bottom of the upper double block, reeves through the upper and lower blocks, and the free end (the "fall") is tied off to the cleat.

 

So you are using all four of the marked positions, in the case of the mizzen #78.

 

It's a similar story for the driver boom topping lifts #93. Referring to Longridge diagram pg 255 and text pg 256 "Topping Lifts", the topping lifts themselves  end in double blocks. This is rigged in a tackle with a block at the deck eyebolt, and the fall is tied to a pin on the mast ring. You can see this in the Figure, the 15" double and 15" single aligned at the lower right. Thus again, all four positions marked 93 are used.

 

Now that you are at the rigging stage I recommend you read and re-read Longridge and make notes. That's what I did to keep track of all the blocks and tackles.

[Bill97]

Thanks again Ian for the thousandth time 😊.  That is exactly what I have been doing in my evenings. I have my Longridge book, several other reference books, and my iPad for reading my MSW comments from you and my other friends stacked on my end table next to my recliner.  There is so much to learn and decipher. As I mentioned before this is my first build where the instructions did not just simply say tie this line from point A to point B. In the past, there was no need to know the name of the line or how it was actually rigged with blocks, hearts, etc. I love learning how these wonderful ships were built and rigged now. Gradually I am learning the nautical names of lines, but only have a handful memorized. I still very often read through one of your comments, as well as from other friends, and grab Longridge’s book to see what is the line or rigging component being talked about. 
As a compliment to you I am impressed with your vast knowledge and your generosity in sharing it. I am very curious if that knowledge comes from life experience or did you gain it simply modeling?

[Old Collingwood]

Bill  hope you don't mind me  adding my   own observations based on my  last  plastic/wood build,   I think your  standing rigging  will be crucial  to keeping  your masts  straight and taught - but also  I have noticed  from  the plans  (not just Victory  but others)  the stays are  attached around the  layered  shrouds  - leading to the question  - should you be fitting the shrouds / deadeyes  first?    they will help to add strength to the lower masts  (I assume they are the stock kit plastic ones)?

 

Just some friendly advice  based on what I went through with my Black Pearl build.

 

OC.

[Bill97]

Old Collingwood I don’t mind at all you adding your observations. I agree that I will need to layer the shrouds and then wrap the stays around them. So the debate would be if  I should leave the ends of the shrouds loose initially to facilitate other ridding or go ahead and attach to the deadeyes. The masts are the stock plastic ones but I reinforced them with wood dowel rods inside that give them much more rigidity. 

[Old Collingwood]

9 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

Old Collingwood I don’t mind at all you adding your observations. I agree that I will need to layer the shrouds and then wrap the stays around them. So the debate would be if  I should leave the ends of the shrouds loose initially to facilitate other ridding or go ahead and attach to the deadeyes. The masts are the stock plastic ones but I reinforced them with wood dowel rods inside that give them much more rigidity. 

That is good Bill  that you did the same to the masts as I did  - it will give them that mutch more strength,   do you know what I would do with the shrouds?   make them first  all the way down the the deadeyes  and secure  and tension them  so the masts are correctly tensioned  from  port to starboard   - then work on the main stays.

 

OC.

[Old Collingwood]

Should have said  - you wouldn't need to do the ratlines at this stage  just the shrouds/deadeyes.

 

OC.

[Bill97]

Yeah Old Collingwood that is the debate I have been having. Ian makes a very good point about being able to work on rigging around the mast if shrouds not in the way yet. Others, like you, recommend shrouds without ratlines initially.

[Ian_Grant]

I looked through my old pics to see again what I did. Here is a photo from early 2017. The jeers, sling, and truss pendants/nave line are rigged before the shrouds had deadeyes, for access. My thinking was that any mast movement when aligning it with stays and shrouds would not affect, ie slacken, anything just running up and down the mast anyway. Also seen are all the buntlines, clewlines. sprit braces etc that pass under the top, already tied down at deck level to rig in reverse. Of course, the yard was equipped with all blocks and footropes before mounting it. I forgot to lash the boom ends, so I just never did.

 

As an aside, I started running into the "server error 200" while attempting to upload pics yesterday. This pic wouldn't upload either so as suggested in the "server error 200" log I submitted this reply with text only, then clicked "edit" and tried an upload again, which worked obviously.

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Ian_Grant

[Bill97]

Good morning Ian! 😊. I see you on here early just like me. Cold snow day today. Ten degrees!  My butt will not be leaving this house today. Time in my ship yard. How is your Ottawa weather?

[Ian_Grant]

11 hours ago, Bill97 said:

As a compliment to you I am impressed with your vast knowledge and your generosity in sharing it. I am very curious if that knowledge comes from life experience or did you gain it simply modeling?

 

Just from modelling and reading I'm afraid. I've never sailed anything bigger than my dinghy (Bombardier Invitation) other than steering "Royal Clipper" one evening.😀😀😀 (Definitely a bucket list item!!).  If I appear to be an expert on "Victory" it's because I have Longridge semi-memorized 😉.

 

Sharing is what this site is for. I love seeing other models coming together, especially Victory, and hope to help others spend less time than the hours and hours I spent just thinking as opposed to rigging!

[Ian_Grant]

17 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

Good morning Ian! 😊. I see you on here early just like me. Cold snow day today. Ten degrees!  My butt will not be leaving this house today. Time in my ship yard. How is your Ottawa weather?

High of -9C (16F) today, down to -20C (-4F) tonight. Warmer on Sunday then back to cold. It's been a very poor winter so far; not much cold weather and very little snow. The Rideau Canal has not frozen enough for outdoor skating yet and the x-country ski trails are short on snow 😭. I was out yesterday and the tracks are very glazed due to recent thaws; makes for great downhills but hard on the grip wax.  Sigh. They forecast a "large snowstorm" last weekend which missed us. We are apparently set to just miss another. Sigh again.

 

But yes, I can get some work done on Preussen.

 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

I think the major thing is less the time-saving nor the mistakes-avoided, though both are invaluable; it's that most of us will build at least a marginally better model through shared knowledge and some (like me, I hope) something way, way better. If I hadn't found this (and previously, Pete Coleman's) site I would have probably finished glueing plastic and painting (badly, with one brush and half a dozen pots of enamel) within a couple of months and then, on seeing a predictably poor example, decided to not even bother with rigging. Or just thought the instructions were too vague and quit because of that. I know mine will still take me years to build but that's partly because this site shows what's possible with patience and care, and, more importantly what patience and care look like in the modelling world.

 

And then there's the fellowship. I really like that nowhere on this site do you see anything other than friendly interest, encouragement and helpfulness, never a 'superior' comment.

 

ps. The biggest thing I've ever sailed is a canal boat (aka narrowboat), don't know if you have these in the states but my ambition is to buy one when I retire in another year or two and spend the next two or three years exploring the country, bit by bit, via the canal system.

[Ian_Grant]

2 minutes ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

 

ps. The biggest thing I've ever sailed is a canal boat (aka narrowboat), don't know if you have these in the states but my ambition is to buy one when I retire in another year or two and spend the next two or three years exploring the country, bit by bit, via the canal system.

Last time we were in London we boarded a narrowboat and voyaged through "Little Venice" and past the zoo to Camden Market for lunch. Great fun!

[Kevin-the-lubber]

It's even more fun driving it! If you ever get the chance, take one up the Llangollen canal; it's beautiful all the way but the Pontcysyllte aqueduct is a very, very unique experience. Bear in mind that, as an ex-mountaineer, heights don't bother me too much but I was utterly petrified taking a boat across this thing. No guard rail on the far side, lean out and you're looking straight down. Never have I steered such a straight line and winced at every little brush against the side.

 

ps. can we have some of your snow please, when it comes back

 

 

 

[Bill97]

Same with me Kevin and Ian. The sharing and friendship are so valuable on this site. As I mentioned a couple post back, and smile now reading your last post Ian, I will need to grab my Longridge book and look up “ The jeers, sling, and truss pendants/nave line “ . Nautical terms I have not yet memorized!😊

 

Today I guess I will move the eye bolts incorrectly placed at the base of the mizzenmast and figure out in layman’s terms what the 12 (4 at each mast) rigging lines are Ian that you recommend going ahead and tying to those bolts. I am assuming they are all running rigging and not standing rigging. May get he caps with their bolts and blocks attached to each he masts as well. Anxious to start installing some of Daniel’s chains with deadeyes on the channels so I may tinker there as well. 

 

Kevin the last time I was in London we stayed over at the Hilton Metropole over by Edgeware station (Brown line). Enjoyed very much seeing the city and going out to Windsor, Bath, Stonehenge, etc. Did not make it to Leafy Sussex but maybe next time. 

 

View out my “shipyard” window this morning. 

[Veszett Roka]

2 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

 I've never sailed anything bigger than my dinghy (Bombardier Invitation)

 

Hah! Novice! Sail once a Soling in high wind, i guarantee you will fall in love for a lifetime.

More seriously, i competed in international Pirate, 470, Soling, Elliott770, sailed a 40er Scharenkreuzer and few motorboats, including a passenger ship - please forgive me for diesel engine
 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Veszett Roka
typo