druxey Posted June 7, 2021 Share #31 Posted June 7, 2021 Despite your own opinion, you are doing well. Improvising when something goes sideways (as will happen to all of us!) is a valuable skill in itself. And is there a deadline? Take as much time as you need to build your model. No-one has a stopwatch and is timing you! "It's the journey, not the destination." Keith Black, lraymo, Cathead and 3 others 6 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathead Posted June 7, 2021 Share #32 Posted June 7, 2021 If you build models too fast, you'll run out of places to put them! Seriously, everyone else is right, you're doing fine. Every mistake you recognize now is one you'll learn to overcome later and be proud that you did. I'm still a bit stunned at what I can do now when I look back at my first models. Tigersteve, Keith Black, lraymo and 2 others 5 Quote Eric Current builds: scratchbuilt Missouri River steamboat Peerless (1893); 1:1 scale timber-framed outdoor kitchen Nautical builds (kits): USS Cairo; NRG capstan project; NRG half-hull; Viking longship; US revenue cutter; 18th century longboat; Bounty launch Missouri River craft (scratchbuilt): 1853 Missouri River steamboat Arabia; 1865 steamboat Bertrand; Lewis & Clark barge; keelboat; 1876 steamboat Far West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigersteve Posted June 7, 2021 Share #33 Posted June 7, 2021 Looks good to me so far. Treat each piece like a model itself and you’d be surprised with your end result. What’s the rush? Gluing technique will improve as you figure out your own tricks. Use less glue. You can also scrape some excess that dried, but be careful w the basswood. Steve Ryland Craze, lraymo, druxey and 1 other 4 Quote Current: Mayflower- Model Shipways Completed: Lowell Grand Banks Dory- Model Shipways English Pinnace- Model Shipways 18th Century Longboat- Model Shipways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted June 7, 2021 Author Share #34 Posted June 7, 2021 Thanks for all the encouragement! I was getting down... but you've helped me put this in perspective. I'm not a perfectionist and I'm trying to learn patience, so this is a hobby that is stretching my limits! (Of course, golf gives me the same "teaching moments" too!) And you've given me some helpful tips as well. I'm off to do knees, frames, and cleats! I'm using yellow wood glue. I may try using the white glue when i really don't want anything to show. You are all Master Craftsmen and looking at your models, I just can't imagine how I could ever get to your level. But I've got to tell myself I've only just begun! Thanks everyone! druxey, Cathead, Ryland Craze and 1 other 4 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandlucy Posted June 9, 2021 Share #35 Posted June 9, 2021 Good job so far! Regarding tools- the list provided with the kit is pretty complete. I've found the broach set (Amazon, from Germany) is very useful. You can drill holes undersized and then open them up very precisely to fit a part. I've also found a rotating vise to be indispensable. Bob Keith Black, Ryland Craze, druxey and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted June 11, 2021 Author Share #36 Posted June 11, 2021 Too hot to play golf (100 degree heat index today) , so back at it! I started the thwart frames, but realized nothing in the instructions showed me the correct height of the top of the frame! And since the middle one (er, midship thwart) has a knee on top of it, I wanted to make sure I got the measurements right. So I balanced the frame, a scrap piece of wood the same size as the thwart, and the knee... on the side of the ship and marked where I can glue the frame! For an initial dry fit, I couldn't use the actual thwarts... they are all too long. I'll have to trim anywhere from 1/8" to 1/4" from the sides of each. So I used my old business cards (i KNEW they'd come in handy someday!), and I made rough templates for the fit. Then, realizing I still needed to determine the correct placement (height) of the frames, I scotch-taped the frames in, so that I could put the card templates on them, to determine where and how the thwarts will fit. These are all rough estimates and rough drafts of the templates. Now I'll go back and make more precise measurements, more accurate templates, and begin the process to true everything up and glue it all in. Whew, talk about a learning curve! Also, I am having a hard time getting the proper angles for the thwart frames to fit snugly against the planks. Is there any sort of "tool" that can help determine weird angles? I suppose I could use another business card (I have hundreds!) and manually do a trial and error fit, till I get a good template, but thinking there must be a tool to help somewhere, maybe? Thanks for all your help in this endeavor! Tigersteve, Cathead, Ryland Craze and 2 others 5 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted June 11, 2021 Share #37 Posted June 11, 2021 It is much better that the thwarts are too long than too short! No-one has invented a good wood stretcher yet. Card patterns are certainly the way to go, just as you suggested. Cut a piece roughly to the angle you need, then refine it by careful trimming. For complex shapes, you can glue small pieces of card to a larger one to get exactly the shape you need. Ryland Craze, Keith Black, Cathead and 2 others 5 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted June 11, 2021 Author Share #38 Posted June 11, 2021 Druxey, haha! Maybe i need to invent a "wood stretcher" as a retirement project! I found a "contour shape duplicator" with metal spines that could supposedly be used to capture angles, but the reviews weren't very impressive. So I'll try the card idea before I purchase anything! Thanks! Keith Black 1 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted June 11, 2021 Share #39 Posted June 11, 2021 Contour duplicators are much too large and coarse to be useful in model-making. Save your money, unless you are doing house reno's. lraymo and Keith Black 2 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted June 12, 2021 Share #40 Posted June 12, 2021 Lynn, what a great post! I could see your wheels turning figuring out how to solve the problem. That's growth, I'm very proud of your progress and the little pram is looking great. I agree with druxey regarding a large contour gauge but Micro Mark carries a six inch model that may or may not be useful? It's not that expensive In the great schema of things, see the below link. https://www.micromark.com/6-Contour-Gauge lraymo 1 Quote Current Builds: Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathead Posted June 12, 2021 Share #41 Posted June 12, 2021 I have a seen a great home-made version on MSW, I wish I could remember where so I could credit it. I think it was in a Viking ship log (which have the same internal-clinker problem). Basically, you cut a series of strips from stiff card, each about the inner width of your planks. Then you use a clamp (like a paper clip or clothespin) to hold them together in a fan shape. You match the end of each strip to one of your planks, resulting in a fan with a very close approximation of the inner hull shape. For non-clinker hulls, just make the strips thinner and they'll still approximate the curve. Now you have a pattern to trace that doesn't require endless trimming of a single piece of card. Does that description make sense, or do I need to figure out a sketch? Keith Black and lraymo 2 Quote Eric Current builds: scratchbuilt Missouri River steamboat Peerless (1893); 1:1 scale timber-framed outdoor kitchen Nautical builds (kits): USS Cairo; NRG capstan project; NRG half-hull; Viking longship; US revenue cutter; 18th century longboat; Bounty launch Missouri River craft (scratchbuilt): 1853 Missouri River steamboat Arabia; 1865 steamboat Bertrand; Lewis & Clark barge; keelboat; 1876 steamboat Far West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted June 13, 2021 Author Share #42 Posted June 13, 2021 Keith, thanks for the encouraging words! I looked at the MicroMark tool, but then used pieces of cards as druxey and Cathead mentioned to create a fan-like template to use, so I'll save money for now. I thought my templates were ok, but after installing the thwart frames, trimming down the thwarts, and doing a dry fit, I realized the midship thwart was first (too short now, but still works), and second, too low in the boat. I had two choices... either remove and re-attach the frame at the right height, or put a spacer under the thwart, so that it sat level. I chose the simpler fix... which was easier, (and probably not helping me learn more about undoing mistakes, but I was getting tired!), so I added a couple of scrap pieces as "spacers" under the thwart, and it seemed to work. These frames and thwarts were a challenge. My templates didn't work out exactly as planned, and I removed a bit too much of the midship thwart, and my frames were less than perfect... but for now, its ok, and I'm learning. How do you guys get perfectly clean char removal? Every time I see your ships, the pieces are beautiful! And what's the difference between beveling and softening? The book says to bevel (which I understand), but then says to "soften" the edges. Isn't that just a light sanding of the bevel? Just curious. Thwart frames installed Dry Fit (midship thwart is too low) Add spacers to bottom of thwart Fit is better (although I trimmed a bit too much off the sides!) Tigersteve, druxey, JpR62 and 3 others 6 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigersteve Posted June 13, 2021 Share #43 Posted June 13, 2021 Cleaning char is a chore. Changing sandpaper when it gets clogged will help. I use 220 grit and then 320 grit. Real fine tuning with 400 grit (overkill, but it works well for me). As for your twarts, if you are not happy with them now you will never be (someone on MSW told me this once). Now’s the time to redo. It’s always better a second or third try. Also, he means soften the edge so it’s not so sharp. Really just a light sanding on the edge. I wouldn’t consider it a bevel. Steve Cathead, Ryland Craze, lraymo and 1 other 4 Quote Current: Mayflower- Model Shipways Completed: Lowell Grand Banks Dory- Model Shipways English Pinnace- Model Shipways 18th Century Longboat- Model Shipways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted June 13, 2021 Share #44 Posted June 13, 2021 Yes, softening means a very light rounding off of a sharp edge. Keith Black, Ryland Craze, lraymo and 1 other 4 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathead Posted June 13, 2021 Share #45 Posted June 13, 2021 9 hours ago, lraymo said: pieces of cards as druxey and Cathead mentioned to create a fan-like template Oops, just realized druxey did suggest essentially the same thing and I somehow read past it. Sorry, didn't mean to duplicate. druxey, lraymo and Keith Black 3 Quote Eric Current builds: scratchbuilt Missouri River steamboat Peerless (1893); 1:1 scale timber-framed outdoor kitchen Nautical builds (kits): USS Cairo; NRG capstan project; NRG half-hull; Viking longship; US revenue cutter; 18th century longboat; Bounty launch Missouri River craft (scratchbuilt): 1853 Missouri River steamboat Arabia; 1865 steamboat Bertrand; Lewis & Clark barge; keelboat; 1876 steamboat Far West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted June 13, 2021 Author Share #46 Posted June 13, 2021 Uh oh, I'm stuck! Am I doing this correctly? To create the chain plate slots, it says to drill a hole into the inwale (using a #72 bit), and then take a #15 narrow saw blade and push the point through the hole. I drilled the hole per the instructions, but I am having trouble "pushing" the saw blade thru the tiny hole. I am afraid of breaking the inwale. Question 1 - is my saw blade the right size? (see my pics of the tool package). It's called a "keyhole saber (push)", but I don't know if that's the same as a "#15". Question 2 - is there a technique to "pushing" a saw blade thru the hole? I've been giving it as much force as I dare, but it hasn't gotten very far thru the inwale, and I'm scared to push too much harder. Your thoughts? trying to "push" the saw blade through - but its not working very well My tool the "keyhole saber" description... is that the same as a "number #15 saw blade"? Instructions... Keith Black 1 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted June 13, 2021 Author Share #47 Posted June 13, 2021 I found a solution... not sure its correct, but my tweezers were able to punch thru the inwale, and enabled me to continue using the saw blade to make the little slots. Still not sure I've got the right saw blade, though. Cathead, Keith Black, Ryland Craze and 1 other 4 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted June 13, 2021 Share #48 Posted June 13, 2021 There are so many creative solutions to any problem. That's one of them! Keith Black, lraymo and Cathead 3 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted June 14, 2021 Share #49 Posted June 14, 2021 Bravo, Lynn. It works just like you had it planned. lraymo and Ryland Craze 2 Quote Current Builds: Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryland Craze Posted June 14, 2021 Share #50 Posted June 14, 2021 Lynn, You are doing an excellent job on building your Pram. Here is a link to the #15 saw blade. This company has given me good service and their shipping costs are very reasonable. https://www.hobbytown.com/15-saw-blade-exl20015/p-xuhzhcjqwqsbg4yz lraymo, Keith Black, druxey and 1 other 3 1 Quote Ryland Member - Hampton Roads Ship Model Society - Ship Model Society of New Jersey - Nautical Research Guild Current Build - Armed Virginia Sloop, 18th Century Longboat Completed Build - Medway Longboat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted June 16, 2021 Author Share #51 Posted June 16, 2021 Thanks Ryland! I ordered the blade from hobbytown. There's actually a store here, but several miles from my home, and with $1.99 shipping, its easier and cheaper to just have it shipped. Thanks again, and I'll be keeping this place in mind when I need more tools! Keith Black, druxey and Ryland Craze 3 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted June 18, 2021 Author Share #52 Posted June 18, 2021 Wow, almost ready to paint! Added rudder gudgeon pad, rowlock pads, rub rails, and dagger board. Thwarts and stern sheets done. Midship thwart knees completed. Just need to prepare the rudder, shaping & sanding, then I can start the painting process. Whew! Of course, there's still much left to do after painting... sails, rigging and metal work all look daunting, so I will enjoy the painting while gearing up the nerve to move to that next challenge! Tigersteve, druxey, Keith Black and 3 others 6 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigersteve Posted June 18, 2021 Share #53 Posted June 18, 2021 Coming along nicely! Steve lraymo and Keith Black 2 Quote Current: Mayflower- Model Shipways Completed: Lowell Grand Banks Dory- Model Shipways English Pinnace- Model Shipways 18th Century Longboat- Model Shipways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryland Craze Posted June 18, 2021 Share #54 Posted June 18, 2021 Very nice work. Your model will come to life with some paint. lraymo and Keith Black 2 Quote Ryland Member - Hampton Roads Ship Model Society - Ship Model Society of New Jersey - Nautical Research Guild Current Build - Armed Virginia Sloop, 18th Century Longboat Completed Build - Medway Longboat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted June 18, 2021 Share #55 Posted June 18, 2021 Very nice, Lynn. Ryland Craze and lraymo 2 Quote Current Builds: Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted June 23, 2021 Author Share #56 Posted June 23, 2021 Ay yi yi! Lots going on with this pram! Started painting, using the paints from the kit. Pleased with the Warm White outside of hull, and with the Clear satin finish as well. Used the Copper Red inside the hull. Then came the floor boards. First, I had to trim off about an 1/8" on both sides of each floor board. Then, not feeling very steady-handed, I laid out the floor boards upside-down on some painters tape (for easy removal), and glued them as a "unit" into place. Creating another template for the aft floorboards, I needed to trim these as well, and again, used tape to install these as a "unit of 6" rather than 1 at a time. Experiment 1 - tried some "Minwax Golden Oak" stain on the stern sheets. Didn't like it, so turned it over and tried to do a better job of staining the other side. That didn't work either! Experiment 2 - Painted the stern sheets with the Yellow Occre from the Dory kit. Liked the effect, so went ahead and painted the thwarts as well, and beveled and re-sanded the stern sheet too. Worked to bring back the "flush mount" which I had achieved originally, but after using the opposite side for painting, I couldn't get it sanded enough (I was afraid I would sand too much off), so I left it as is. I'm ok with how it turned out, though.' Meanwhile, reading ahead, the author talks about "driving home" some bolts. Question - since these bolts are thin as needles, how do you "drive these home"? Use a thimble to push it? Use pliers to grip the bolts and push it into the wood? Is there a small tool/hammer to use? Your advice? One more question: I love reading everyone's blogs and seeing the pictures, but are there any YouTube videos which show details of rigging, masts, and metal work? I've done some rudimentary searches, but haven't found any. As always, thanks for your feedback! Experiment 1 - I didn't like the white-ish mark left by the stain on the side of the stern sheet Experiment 2 - liked the paint, but now need to re-sand and re-bevel the stern sheet. Current status - Liked the look of the completed paint job. And getting ready to start working on the tiller and (gulp!) some of the metal work! Fingers crossed! Tigersteve, druxey, Ryland Craze and 2 others 5 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted June 23, 2021 Share #57 Posted June 23, 2021 Nice strategy using tape to space the floor boards! She's looking sharp. lraymo, Ryland Craze and Keith Black 3 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted June 23, 2021 Share #58 Posted June 23, 2021 Lynn, you did a very nice job of painting. The pram is looking sweet. lraymo 1 Quote Current Builds: Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Jarman Posted June 23, 2021 Share #59 Posted June 23, 2021 Looking good, paint makes all the difference. You are now up to the really fun part of model ship building. Adding all the details is when the model comes alive. Paul Keith Black and lraymo 2 Quote In work Amati-rms-titanic-1912-1250 Unfinished kit Revell Container-ship-colombo-express Finished AL - King of the Mississippi AL-Sanson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigersteve Posted June 23, 2021 Share #60 Posted June 23, 2021 Coming along! Steve Keith Black, lraymo and Ryland Craze 3 Quote Current: Mayflower- Model Shipways Completed: Lowell Grand Banks Dory- Model Shipways English Pinnace- Model Shipways 18th Century Longboat- Model Shipways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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