Idea : Printing fabric sails using heat transfer paper

[modeller_masa]

 

 

Hello.

Heller Pinta 1/75 is my new side project. While I was investigating ideas about replacing plastic stock sails to realistic fabric sails, I realized that the 'red cross' dye makes it more difficult. I thought about stencil with laser cut OHP film, but its result is quite blurred.

 

After that, I began to search any kind of 'water slide decal' for fabric, and found it.

 

 

This is very common heat transfer paper for T-shirt.

 

In my case, I'll print red cross, hole marks, sewing marks, reefing lines, and even shadows and dirty dusts. The hole marks will help to set the sails evenly. Also, I'll transfer mirrored image to both sides with some trick. If it is good, flags can be better than stock paper flags.  

 

How do you think about the idea? I ordered the paper today.

[Gregory]

Great idea.  I would look for very fine cloth for the base..

[allanyed]

Sorry to disagree but I don't think that using cloth for sails is ever a good idea.  There is no cloth or sewing method that is remotely close to any scale smaller than about 1:12.    I used to use a very high TC cloth (600 and 800) to keep it as closes to scale as possible, but it was very expensive material and still did not look as good as non-woven material.   If there was a cloth with a thread count of over 2000 I might  try it again, but typical stiches on seams will never be to scale even if the cloth is closer to scale.   Lots of great models are ruined with cloth sails.  If you choose to replace the plastic sails, you may want to consider a non-woven material such as silk span.  You can print right on the silk span before cutting the sail to size with your printer or you can print a separate sheet and then adhere the painted piece to the sail with matte medium.   Seams and reinforcing pieces are easy to do as well.    There are some great instructions on using this material for sails on line, here at MSW if you do a search, and in the booklet from Seawatch books by David Antscherl.

Allan

[Gregory]

I think modeller_masa   has come up with a great idea to have sails that resemble the box art without using the form sails provided in the kit.

 

I would suggest the importance of real looking, scale appropriate sails may not be a realistic or desirable goal in this case.

 

What kind of printer would you need for printing on a non-rigid material like silkspan?

I have printed on tissue paper by taping it to card stock, but it still has a tendency to gather and tear if it is not perfectly flat.

 

Do they have clothing re-sale shops in the EU?

 

I have found some very fine, high thread count materials in fine men's shirt or women's dresses in these stores.

A lot of possible sail material at a very low cost.

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Gregory

[Roger Pellett]

Several years ago I built a vacuum forming box for a pair of 1:96 scale ships boats.  The vacuum is provided by my shop vac.

 

I have also used this setup to print simple patterns on silkspan and rice paper.

 

The box is exactly that, a simple wooden box with an open top and a hole that fits the shop vac hose in the side.  The silkspan is glued to a wooden frame that will fit over the box and the paper Is shrunk by spraying it with water.  When dry it will be tight.  A stencil was cut from Mylar drafting film.  The frame with its paper is placed over the box, the Mylar stencil is placed on top, the vacuum is turned on, and the pattern is sprayed with acrylic paint.  The vacuum sucks excess paint away and promotes quick drying.  The result is a nice sharp image painted on the paper.

 

This technique could be used to print the crosses on silkspan sails.

 

Roger

[Gregory]

What would be the advantage of your method over the iron on transfer?

 

The OP wants these features:

Quote

In my case, I'll print red cross, hole marks, sewing marks, reefing lines, and even shadows and dirty dusts. 

 

 

 

 

I have used the iron on transfer for other projects and the final result is a very fine film.  The details are only limited by the original artwork and the resolution of the printer..

[modeller_masa]

Thanks for the good point, Allan. I didn't know that the hightest TC cloth can't beat the non-woven cloth. I already bought some finest woven cloth to cut and sew, but I should reconsider a material for high scale models. 

That's impressive knowledge that printer can print on silk span directly. It seems much simple and better result. I'll check the instructions and booklet. Many thanks again, Allan.

Thanks for understanding me, Gregory. My goal is 'real looking' as you said. On the other hand, I'm an inexperienced modeller, so I don't know which way is the best to achieve the most realistic sail. As an engineer, I prefer to immitate and scale down real sail, and it is an Allan's approach. Therefore, both of Gregory and Allan understands me well.  

My printer is Canon's 2400x9600 DPI inkjet photo printer, and it is not difficult to find and buy various fabrics in Seoul, South Korea. As a dyeing technique, heat transfer paper can be an alternative option for non-flat surface material. I'll continue to research both material and dyeing technique.

That's really impressive, Roger. The stencil technique with the vacuum machine will be very sharp. I'm not sure I can buy or use the vacuum machine, but will research the interesting machine.

Greatly thanks to all. All the discussions expanded my knowledge. It's time to research and test each of them. 🤩

[modeller_masa]

 

 

28 minutes ago, Gregory said:

the advantage

 

About a month ago, I bought fine photo printer and water slide transfer paper. It really worked well, and its detail almost beat commercial decals. I used photoshop and work space was 4800 DPI. I'll test that the heat transfer paper can hold the 2400x9600 DPI inkejt output and tack well on to a cloth. 

 

The reason I want to print all of 'sail thing' at once is my laziness. 🤪 I always want the best quality with easy and cheap method that even children can follow. If it works, I don't need to tan or sew reefing lines on the cloth.

 

Probably the last hurdle is long term durability... I don't think the coating will last for decades.

[Gregory]

I think the longevity may depend on the ink rather than the medium..

 

If you have photo quality ink that has UV protection, it should last as long as a good quality color photo.

You might also add a light coat of something like Scotchguard or other UV blocker..

Edited August 6, 2021 by Gregory

[modeller_masa]

I planned to use Vallejo polyurethane matt varnish. I'll apply the multi coat UV blocker. Thanks, Gregory!

[allanyed]

Gregory, you mentioned you found cloth with a high thread count. Can you share the source and what the actual thread count is?   I have searched for appropriate scale cloth for ages with no luck.   The highest thread count for fine shirts I have been able to find over the past years is 750 and this is silk and the material is not cheap.   With a 750 TC, the thread is three times too large to be close to scale.  Canvas has a thread count of about 50 to 100 per inch.  Duck is typically about 45X35 TPI.   At a scale of 1:64 the TC on the model sail would have to be 2880 per inch to match duck canvas.   For 1:48 it would have to be 2,160.   I have found 800 to 1200 count bedding which looks better but there is no way to sew edge or panel seams so they would be remotely close to scale. 

Allan     

[Gregory]

Allan, I can't be sure what the thread count is/was, but as I said, I gave gone to a ' thrift shop' and found a shirt or blouse that was made of very fine material where the weave was very difficult to discern.  I'll try to find a scrap and see if it is as fine as my memory thinks it is.

It may well have been 750 or less..  It may have been silk. I got past the "expensive" part by shopping at Goodwill, etc..

 

As fine as the material is, the look will not hold up at most popular scales, with any sewing, as you and others have pointed out.

 

I am not much for making sails due to many of the concerns voiced by yourself and others..

 

I am of the opinion that " if you must do it, try this or this and do the best you can "..

 

I think the OP has come up with a good idea that I will have to try myself.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Gregory

[mtaylor]

I've printed silkspan with a color printer (ink jet, NOT a laser).   Tape the silkspan to sheet of regular paper and then feed it through.  With care, you can print both sides.

[allanyed]

11 minutes ago, Gregory said:

I got past the "expensive" part by shopping at Goodwill, etc..

Gregory,  Thanks for the chuckle, you are man after my own heart!!!   

Allan

[modeller_masa]

https://www.amazon.com/Supreme-Collection-Extra-Sheets-White/dp/B00AMNAE4W/ref=sr_1_19?keywords=1200+count+bedding&sr=8-19

https://www.amazon.com/LBRO2M-Microfiber-Hypoallergenic-Breathable-Resistant/dp/B07X57KS65/ref=sr_1_17?keywords=1200+count+bedding&sr=8-17

I found 1500 and 1800 count bedding. I read an article that there are several ways to count numbers such as weaving method and yarn. I'm not sure they are really 1800 TC performance to compare with the most expensive 800 TC cotton fabric.

I'll test the 1800 TC bedding. 😍

[Gregory]

Do the math!😁

[Roger Pellett]

Gregory,

 

You asked me what the advantage of my method is relative to iron on transfers.

 

In building ship models as in most other human endeavors I do not believe that there is such a thing as a “best practice.”  There is only what works for me as an individual given my abilities, preferences, work habits, and resources.

 

In my case, I do not use computers to build ship models as I do not enjoy using them.  I also do not like trying to learn “Apps” written by someone else. In addition, I like the feel and results from doing something with my own hands.  My method, allows me to make simple designs on silkspan for things like flags without using a computer.  Since, the designs that we are producing, are pre-computer, the few imperfections from my handwork are probably more like the real thing.

 

My method also makes use of cheap or free materials laying around my shop, and does not include use of fade prone computer inks. Several years ago, I pitched my trouble prone ink Jet printer, in favor of a B&W laser one.

 

To each is own, definitely applicable to ship modeling techniques.

 

Roger

Edited August 7, 2021 by Roger Pellett

[Gregory]

2 minutes ago, Roger Pellett said:

You asked me what the advantage of my method is relative to iron on transfers.

The OP has the necessary tools to do the iron on transfers.

 

You suggested a different method that required different tools and a different skill set..

 

I was just curious as to what would be the advantage in adapting your method.

[tkay11]

14 hours ago, modeller_masa said:

I found 1500 and 1800 count bedding. I read an article that there are several ways to count numbers such as weaving method and yarn. I'm not sure they are really 1800 TC performance to compare with the most expensive 800 TC cotton fabric.

The Amazon site just says 'feels like 1500 thread count", so not necessarily the real count. All the same, sounds like a good idea to try out, especially as you want a look that suits you -- something which most modelers aspire to. Good luck in your hunt.

 

Tony

[wefalck]

I have been tossing around the idea of using ink-jet or (colour) laser printed for a couple of decades or so. The biggest issue is the light-fastness of the pigments they use. There are various studies on the Internet, where people used (accelerated) test on different combinations of inks/toners and papers. Very few really hold on over more than a few years. Reds are notorious for their fading. So my conclusion was to stay away from home-printed parts. OK, there may have come new inks/toners onto the market since I did my survey, so I may be wrong ....

 

I have used, however, b/w printing to give me the layout, which I then painted in acrylics, say for flags.

 

We had the discussion on sail materials several times in recent years here. I fully agree with Allen, that cloth in most instances is not a suitable base for scale sails except at very large scales. Paper can be at least an order of magnitude thinner than the thinnest woven fabric. The problem with many papers is that their wet tear-resistance can be rather low.

 

A friend of mine started experimenting with a special paper as used by book- and paper-restorers. This is a long-fibred rice-paper coated on one side with a heat-activated acrylic glue. When applied onto a sheet of paper, it is almost invisible. My friend made three-ply sails with this special paper on the outside and a core of thin silk-paper in the middle. In this way, he achieved three things: the sail has a reasonably good wet tear-resistance to be shaped, painted and handled, it is translucent, if only thin washes of acrylics or inks are used, and by cutting the outer layers into strips of the scale-width of the sail-cloths, the seams are reproduced to near scale thickness. I have not tried this myself yet, but it seems to produce quite impressive results for set sails. I have to make some trials, to see how it works for gathered or brailed-up sails. 

[allanyed]

If and when you can provide more details on this material I for one would love to see how it goes and do some experimenting as well.   There are plenty of sources for rice paper that I found but not with heat activated acrylic coatings nor can I find any information on a coating to apply myself.   Perhaps matte medium such as used with silk span would work in place of the heat activated glue.    Hope you can provide more info!!  

Thanks Eberhard 

 

Allan

 

[Gregory]

While I share the concern with the fading of printer inks, on the other hand, if they fade over the years, the effect may not be all that undesirable in the context of an antique model ship..

Edited August 8, 2021 by Gregory

[modeller_masa]

wefalck // Eveything you said is new and cutting edge artwork. Thanks for introducing so many clues to make 'non edible' rice paper sail with waterproof coating. They are very interesting and promising project, but I'll concentrate on this heat transfer paper due to financial limit. I'll stick to the paper sail after I finish this homework.

 

Allan // I found this heat activated spray bond.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007POWZPW

I'm not sure it is made of acrylic, but it offers water and odor resistance.

 

[wefalck]

Allen et al., this is the heat-activated paper repair I talked about: https://www.neschen.de/en/product/filmoplast-r-2/#pdetails. Not sure about the availability outside Europe, but I am sure there are equivalent products, as all around the globe paper- and book-restorers face the same challenges. The prices are not Chinese supermarket prices, but a roll 50 m long and 20 mm wide will probably get me through all the models I am likely to build in the next three decades, before I am getting too old and tatty for this.