BrianK Posted February 22, 2022 Share #121 Posted February 22, 2022 7 hours ago, Keith Black said: Lynn, make your own sanding stick or buy some if you don't want to take the time to make some. To make them just super glue sandpaper to the end of a flat piece of wood and voila. https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/4AA5018D-AE8E-457B-A3D5-3A85FE05976F/?_encoding=UTF8&store_ref=SB_A01859563PL9E9QMPZ1S8&pd_rd_plhdr=t&aaxitk=93a7393d31f130d7eb02a6bbdb6ae696&hsa_cr_id=1109728570401&lp_asins=B08YFKSRJT%2CB08Y78TB3X%2CB08YFMG6Z9&lp_query=Sanding Stick&lp_slot=auto-sparkle-hsa-tetris&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_lsi4d_ls&pd_rd_w=8UM8T&pf_rd_p=488a18be-6d86-4de0-8607-bd4ea4b560f3&pd_rd_wg=apBcr&pf_rd_r=J734HS92Y9J42N49QB2Z&pd_rd_r=ea6d1bd1-bdda-4cae-adb3-2d95006e72fc Lynn, I second Keith's recommendation. Soft sanding sticks are great in part because they are semi-rigid and will follow a modest contour like you have with the bulwarks. I keep a take-out container of them next to the bench and use them on plastic, wood, non-ferrous metals..... pretty much everything. I have not done bulwark sanding yet like you are doing, but I was thinking about this challenging task and thought of sanding sticks for it too. They make them in different widths and graduated grits too, as Keith's link shows. In fact they go down (up?) to polishing grits in the couple 1000's that will work on model airplane canopies. Many many brands available too. The wider ones are also searched for under the term sanding sponge. BrianK lraymo, Ryland Craze, Keith Black and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share #122 Posted February 22, 2022 Hey Keith, thanks for the link to the Keystone sanding products. What a wealth of info! I had made a few sanding sticks earlier, but the shape and sizes weren't very efficient. From amazon, I will order these ($13 is a bargain, considering I'm not very good at making my own!) Keith Black and BrianK 2 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiBee Posted February 22, 2022 Share #123 Posted February 22, 2022 Lynn, I used a combination of sanding sticks, sanding blocks, a dowel with sand paper wrapped around it. And I still used a combination of knife blades to thin the bulkhead down, very carefully Ryland Craze and Keith Black 2 Quote Current Projects: Completed Projects: Armed Virginia Sloop - Model Shipways - 1:96 Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack - Model Shipways - 1:24 Phantom New York Pilot Boat - Model Shipways - 1:96 18th Century Long Boat - Model Shipways - 1:48 Norwegian Sailing Pram - Model Shipways - 1:12 Lowell Grand Banks Dory - Model Shipways - 1:24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share #124 Posted February 22, 2022 Thanks for the info. I've put in my Amazon order! And I'll probably buy more as I continue this journey. I still need to use the blades to continue to thin the bulwark. I've already whittled a bit too aggressively in some spots, but a little wood putty will fix it! Ryland Craze, SkiBee, Cathead and 1 other 4 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted February 27, 2022 Author Share #125 Posted February 27, 2022 I was going to call this "Epic Fail", but I remembered you guys told me not to be too hard on myself! And actually, considering how the hull came out of the box, I am happy with the amount of "thinning" of the bulwarks I was able to do, before screwing up the stern! Here's the story. Thinning was going along fairly well, till I chopped up the stern. It just kept breaking off in little chunks as I tried to carve out the wood. So I "fixed it" by trying to create a bulwark out of extra pieces of wood and wood filler. The last picture shows the progress so far, and I've sanded the stern. It's not perfect, but its ok for now, and I've moved on to the bow, where I've managed to break up as well. So more wood filler and crazy glue in my future. And hopefully, my next post will show a completed bulwark, fixed on both ends, sanded, and ready for the decking! By the way, I purchased a set of sanding sticks! What a lifesaver! This is what I started with: This is where things went awry... I tried to fix the stern with little pieces of scrap wood, crazy glue, and wood filler And finally, this is where it stands today. I'm happy with the "thinning" so far. Sorry for the non-rotated pic. It won't let me rotate it for some reason! BrianK, Bill Morrison, Keith Black and 5 others 8 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted February 27, 2022 Share #126 Posted February 27, 2022 Lynn, good fix. Something breaking is inevitable, it's the nature of the beast. You took this one in stride. you're making great progress. BrianK, Cathead and lraymo 2 1 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted March 8, 2022 Author Share #127 Posted March 8, 2022 Bulwarks are thinned, deck is in place, and step is installed. Trying to do the waterway now, made out of manila folder, but my ability to use a blade "freehand" to create the 1/16th inch wide waterway is suspect. This first attempt (I will install 4 sections, fore and aft, port and starboard) is just placed in for show, but is not glued, and I think I will redo it. The side that's against the bulwarks is good but getting a matching 1/16" edge is proving troublesome. bruce d, ct mike, GrandpaPhil and 3 others 6 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted March 9, 2022 Share #128 Posted March 9, 2022 Lynn, everything looks really good. Sometimes your photos take on a pink tint, why do you suppose that is? You're using a manila folder to make the waterway? I admire your ingenuity but wouldn't making it out of wood be easier? You could soak the wood and form it. Midwest provides small size strips of basswood that's just the ticket. I've bought from them several times and have always been pleased. https://midwestproducts.com lraymo 1 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share #129 Posted March 9, 2022 40 minutes ago, Keith Black said: manila folder to make the waterway? Keith, I'd like to take credit for ingenuity, but it's actually what the instruction manual says to do! I like your suggestion much better, though, and I'll look into it. Seems it would make it easier and would look better too! (Not sure why my pics have a pink tint... I don't like the camera on my phone... I may invest in a better one!) Ryland Craze and Keith Black 2 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted March 9, 2022 Share #130 Posted March 9, 2022 6 minutes ago, lraymo said: Not sure why my pics have a pink tint It must be a girl phone. lraymo 1 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share #131 Posted March 10, 2022 Lots going on here on this snowy day in Kansas City. I wanted to re-do the waterway in wood, rather than manila folder (thanks Keith for the idea). I didn't have any 1/16" x 1/32" strips, so I cut down a couple of 3/32" x 1/32" strips from the kit to the right size. Those strips in the kit were designated for the cap rail, but the cap rail is supposed to be 1/8" thick, so I am re-purpose-ing them for the waterway! Meanwhile, the author of the instruction manual suggests taking a piece of 1/32" thin basswood sheet and cutting out a continuous cap rail. So I traced the contours of the bulwarks onto the basswood sheet. The cap rail is supposed to be 1/8" wide but the author said to make it bigger, which I did. I can tweak the width as I "finish" it! Then I used a sharp blade and cut freehand the cap rail in one piece! I was happy with the result, even though it split a couple times. And I'll have to sand it down to the correct width. Using the middle "scrap" piece, I bent my newly-created waterway strips along the outside as a form, and then soaked it in hot water hoping it will keep the curved shape of the deck. (In keeping with the "kitchen-as-workshop" theme, I am using the microwave dish as a platform to soak the wood!) Last pic is the dry-fit of the cap rail, which will take alot of sanding and finishing still, but I'm hoping it will be ok. And of course I need to do the stanchions somewhere in-between the waterway and the cap rail! After posting this next pic, suddenly I have a desire for fish for dinner! I simply laid the cap rail on top of the ship. It will take alot of work to get it in its "finished" form. Keith Black, Ryland Craze, GrandpaPhil and 2 others 5 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted March 11, 2022 Share #132 Posted March 11, 2022 Lynn, very good. Are you using the sanding sticks and how do you like them? lraymo 1 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted March 11, 2022 Author Share #133 Posted March 11, 2022 Keith, I went on a bit of a shopping spree for sanding sticks! bought these foamboard sticks, and then these plastic "band" sticks with replaceable sanding bands. Very cool, I like both kinds! Cathead, GrandpaPhil, BrianK and 2 others 5 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share #134 Posted March 12, 2022 The waterway has been installed! Needed to do alot of tweaking on this. if I had just put the waterway strips (basswood 1/32" thick) on top of the deck, I realized I would be left with very little room for the stanchions (apparently I didn't sand the deck down far enough!). So I cut away part of the deck to make a channel for the waterway. But still, this didn't leave enough room for stanchions. So I went ahead and recessed the channel lower than the deck, (which I thought made sense, since the water would drain better anyway!), and installed the waterway in its recessed channel. I think it looks ok, and a fairly good fix rather than having to rip up the deck, sand the hull down, and order new decking material to start over. For a fix, I like how this came out! (except along the stern, but hopefully some wood filler will cover some of the flaws!). This was lots of extra work, but fun to figure out how to fix it. I also dry-fit the bowsprit to make sure the notch in the bulwarks was the right size. Scupper holes are next, now that I'm satisfied with the deck and waterway! Cathead, DanB, GrandpaPhil and 3 others 6 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted March 16, 2022 Author Share #135 Posted March 16, 2022 Scuppers created. Had to "redo' the waterway for the fore port & starboard scuppers, bg ut it turnned out ok. I've had lots of time to work on the ship, ever since I somehow hurt my back and side last week. Lots of pain, alleviated by pain pills, which make me tired (and keeping me off the road)... so mostly I've been working on the Phantom between medical appts. Ugh. Hoping tomorrow's chiropractic appointment gives me some relief. But at least I can work on the ship the last few days, and I'm happy with the results/progress so far! Cathead, Keith Black, GrandpaPhil and 3 others 6 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted March 17, 2022 Share #136 Posted March 17, 2022 Lynn, the deck looks much better. Sorry you're in pain. Hopefully you get healed up quickly! lraymo 1 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathead Posted March 17, 2022 Share #137 Posted March 17, 2022 Nice progress, Lynn. I'm a fellow member of the pain club right now, but in my case it's going to prevent any building for the next few months. So I look forward to living vicariously through you and others. Good luck getting through your hurdles efficiently! Keith Black and lraymo 2 Quote Eric Current builds: scratchbuilt Missouri River steamboat Peerless (1893); 1:1 scale timber-framed outdoor kitchen Nautical builds (kits): USS Cairo; NRG capstan project; NRG half-hull; Viking longship; US revenue cutter; 18th century longboat; Bounty launch Missouri River craft (scratchbuilt): 1853 Missouri River steamboat Arabia; 1865 steamboat Bertrand; Lewis & Clark barge; keelboat; 1876 steamboat Far West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted March 17, 2022 Share #138 Posted March 17, 2022 Eric, I hate to hear you're laid up. I hope and pray you heal quickly. ccoyle and lraymo 2 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share #139 Posted March 17, 2022 Thanks Keith, Eric, for the words of support. I finally got some relief at a chiropractor appointment today, and will go a few more times to get the issues resolved. But very sorry, Eric, that you're in pain. It's not a fun club to be in! And sounds like you might be down for awhile, for which I am sorry, but hope you heal up as fast as possible! Cathead and Keith Black 2 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted March 20, 2022 Author Share #140 Posted March 20, 2022 I tried to make the pintles and gudgeons for the rudder, using the brass strip supplied. It was much too difficult, given I'm still in pain, and my fingers couldn't deal with the tiny size. Then I read another instruction that said I could use paper! So I cut small strips from a manila folder, painted the strips black, and tried to form the pintles/gudgeons from that. Again, no such luck. I could create the hinge, but found it impossible to attach to the rudder (probably because my notches in the rudder weren't big enough). So I did the next best thing... I cheated! And I am ok with it! I simply glued the tiny painted strips onto the rudder, making it LOOK LIKE they are actual hinges! If I felt better, I would re-do this, but right now, its better for my mental health to just move on! BTW, 3rd day at the chiropractor seems to have helped quite a bit, and I'm hopeful next week will bring more relief! GrandpaPhil, SkiBee, Keith Black and 4 others 7 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted March 20, 2022 Share #141 Posted March 20, 2022 Lynn, a lot of modeling is illusion, tricking the viewers mind into seeing something that's not really there. The viewers mind expects to see something, modelers give the viewers mind a gentle nudge and voila, the thing is there as plain as day. Your pintles and gudgeons while not perfect, at viewing distance they'll be noted by the casual viewer's eye/mind and the viewer will move on to make other observations none the wiser. I do hope and pray you heal soon. lraymo and Cathead 1 1 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathead Posted March 20, 2022 Share #142 Posted March 20, 2022 I agree with Keith, and to go even farther, at times in modeling (as in other art) it can work better to do something that isn't right but that looks right, and sometimes looks more right than the accurate choice. Think of it like a painter giving someone a skin tone that, up close, is inhuman but presents just the right coloration from a normal viewing distance. To put it another way, sometimes it's worth doing something wrong but well (good-looking glued-on paper hinges) rather than right but poorly (sloppy or out of scale metal hinges). To put it yet another way, by the time someone looks close enough to "judge" your paper hinges, they'll also be close enough to see that the copper plating doesn't have rivets, that the wood grain is coarse, etc., none of which matter in the least, any more than that looking too closely at a painting reveals brush strokes rather than the pores of the subject's skin. What matters is that you like the outcome, it looks cool from a normal viewing distance, and you file away some new ideas and skills for the next project. lraymo and Keith Black 1 1 Quote Eric Current builds: scratchbuilt Missouri River steamboat Peerless (1893); 1:1 scale timber-framed outdoor kitchen Nautical builds (kits): USS Cairo; NRG capstan project; NRG half-hull; Viking longship; US revenue cutter; 18th century longboat; Bounty launch Missouri River craft (scratchbuilt): 1853 Missouri River steamboat Arabia; 1865 steamboat Bertrand; Lewis & Clark barge; keelboat; 1876 steamboat Far West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted March 20, 2022 Author Share #143 Posted March 20, 2022 Thank you Keith and Eric, for your perspectives! I was thinking somewhat along those lines, thinking the "casual viewer" wouldn't notice much difference if they didn't look too closely! And all my friends who would see this are definitely "casual viewers"! (And at this point in my skill level, I consider myself a "casual modeler" as well!) I'd love to get to the point where I could make beautiful, metal hinges that looked great, as well as plating with rivets, and gorgeously sanded wood! But its just not there yet, so the optical illusion will have to do (and i like the parts about the modeler giving the viewer a "gentle nudge" and that it can look cool from a normal viewing distance!) I was a bit scared to confess my deception, and hoping MSW wouldn't throw me out for it, but both your comments make me feel happy! I actually like how its turned out, and I'm learning much that will help me in the future! Thank you both again! Keith Black and Cathead 2 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted March 20, 2022 Share #144 Posted March 20, 2022 22 minutes ago, lraymo said: I'd love to get to the point where I could make beautiful, metal hinges that looked great, as well as plating with rivets, and gorgeously sanded wood! Lynn, most of us are right there with you. The goalpost never get closer, experience only increases our desire to reach the next level. Cathead and lraymo 2 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted March 21, 2022 Author Share #145 Posted March 21, 2022 Stanchions. Time-consuming but made so much easier with the Northwest Short Line CHOPPER! I love this little tool! (Thanks, Eric, for recommending this! It continues to be very handy!) https://nwsl.com/products/the-chopper Cathead, ccoyle, Keith Black and 2 others 5 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted March 21, 2022 Share #146 Posted March 21, 2022 Lynn, the stanchions look good, nice even spacing. What's next? You feeling any better? lraymo and Cathead 2 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted March 22, 2022 Author Share #147 Posted March 22, 2022 Still hurting some, but getting better. Thanks for asking. So I'm on to the next issue, and need to enlist the help of MSW! I've figured out the mast rake angle, but how do I go about drilling this? I don't trust my "freehand & eyeball" method shown below! 🤪 Any suggestions on how to make a proper jig? And how far into the hull do I drill? Ryland Craze, Keith Black and Cathead 3 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted March 22, 2022 Share #148 Posted March 22, 2022 Lynn, I eyeballed it when drilling the holes for the mast. Get the cut off end of a 2x4 and practice drilling the mast hole using your t-bevel and your eye. Practice using a drill the same diameter as a bamboo skewer and going about a half inch deep. You can make a jig/templet but without a drill press and a way to solidly bed the hull, it's going to be an eyeball process. When you finally feel comfortable enough to drill the hull, if you mess up, you can plug the hole and do it again. I don't think you need to drill more than 3/4 of an inch deep if that. When you finally drill the hole in the hull you want the hole to be slightly larger than the mast where you'll be able to fine tune the angle. Eric, please jump in here and advise Lynn as I'm probably not giving her the best advise. lraymo and Ryland Craze 2 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted March 22, 2022 Author Share #149 Posted March 22, 2022 Thanks Keith for the advice! I will happily go practice on a 2x4! Keith Black 1 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted March 22, 2022 Share #150 Posted March 22, 2022 Lynn, also. a Forstner bit is a much better drill than the normal metal drills. There's much less tear out with a Forstner but they are more expensive. You should be able to buy one the size of your mast diameter or if you can afford it spring for a set and be done with it. Any time one of us has suggested a tool to help you along, you've been Jonny on the spot to buy it. That's why I disagree with your statement "I consider myself a casual modeler". The casual modeler would use an inadequate tool to try and get the job done. You're far more than a casual builder. If you were casual about this hobby I wouldn't be following you in your journey. gulfmedic1, lraymo, Cathead and 1 other 3 1 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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